Knicks · Knicks to sign Darion Atkins (page 3)

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TPercy wrote:Can someone please explain how this a good move. He has a horrid offensive game. We don't need more offensive liabilities. We need a center,not him.

You are not going to find all stars to be your 15th player on a minimum contract- what do you expect the talent level to be, honestly? Why cry about something so trivial?

Does it look like I am crying? There is a fine distinction between crying and disagreeing.
He is a terrific defender from what I have heard, but we are loaded with players in his position at the 3 and 4 spot. He can't play center because he is six foot eight and unlike Ndour or draymond green, he posesses 0 offensive game to compensate for his lack of height.

It is clear we are need a center, and viewing robin Lopez injury history, the center we need would need to play significant minutes at one point and I have zero confidence in a majorly undersized offensive liability protecting the rim and running the triangle.

Atkins was an elite defensive player who defended 3-5 and was a rim protector. Not a bad idea to see what he can do. Maybe he shows more in TC and Pre Season.

NCAA Awards & Honors

Lefty Driesell Award (Defensive POY) - 2015
ACC Defensive POY (Media) - 2015
ACC All-Defensive Team (Media) - 2015

The easy response for everyone is that these guys are camp invites and lttle more but I'm suspiciously optimistic that both of these late signings may be contributors.

I'd bet one of these guys making it before I'll bet on a guy like Early who has shown me zero b-ball IQ and zero defensively.

smackeddog wrote:

TPercy wrote:Can someone please explain how this a good move. He has a horrid offensive game. We don't need more offensive liabilities. We need a center,not him.

You are not going to find all stars to be your 15th player on a minimum contract- what do you expect the talent level to be, honestly? Why cry about something so trivial?

When you are roster gutted of draft picks for the future, you don't have a strong record of developing your own draft picks/young players and it stands a good chance you won't make the playoffs this season, the value of those minutes you can offer young developing players is a very valuable asset.

For a guy trying to prove his worth as NBA caliber, minutes often mean more than money, location and whatever chance there is to actually win.

There are two sides to this IMHO,

1) I think you have to mine the talent where it lies, meaning sometimes you just have to grab the guy you think can help you long term without regard to positional value. Better to have three pretty good point guards trying to develop than 1 pretty good point guard and two mediocre pivots just because they are taller

2) The issue of minutes comes back up. There are likely more minutes potential at the Knicks wing positions than there are right now at PF and C. Riding on a guy who is likely to be cut could shave off opportunity for a wing prospect would could actually help the Knicks.

At least the kid can play defense.

Again, still not a fan of the Amundson and Thomas signings. Would rather just give more rookies/UDFAs an opportunity. This is basically a lost year to the Knicks playoff wise, so development should be at the forefront.

BETTER LATE THAN NEVER: Virginia's Darion Atkins made the most of his last-minute invite, leading the PIT in scoring (20.0 ppg) and blocks (3.7 bpg), while finishing third in rebounding (10.3 rpg) and field goal percentage (60.0). The best part of his performance is that he did it all in the flow of the game. He took good shots. He snatched tough rebounds in traffic. He held his ground defensively, despite being matched up against taller players in the post.

As part of an ensemble cast at Virginia playing limited minutes, it was tough for Atkins to really stand out. It's impossible to ignore how well he played at the PIT. Though a bit undersized at 6-8, Atkins checks in at 240 pounds, with very good length. He plays bigger than you'd expect. And he played about as big as one can play under the hot lights of the PIT.

https://www.portsmouthinvitational.com/2...

TPercy wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TPercy wrote:Can someone please explain how this a good move. He has a horrid offensive game. We don't need more offensive liabilities. We need a center,not him.

You are not going to find all stars to be your 15th player on a minimum contract- what do you expect the talent level to be, honestly? Why cry about something so trivial?

Does it look like I am crying? There is a fine distinction between crying and disagreeing.
He is a terrific defender from what I have heard, but we are loaded with players in his position at the 3 and 4 spot. He can't play center because he is six foot eight and unlike Ndour or draymond green, he posesses 0 offensive game to compensate for his lack of height.

It is clear we are need a center, and viewing robin Lopez injury history, the center we need would need to play significant minutes at one point and I have zero confidence in a majorly undersized offensive liability protecting the rim and running the triangle.

No it doesn't look like you're crying but it sure does sound like you are.

BRIGGS wrote:Ye="LivingLegend"]

BRIGGS wrote:Jeees if the knick followed my path we'd have Atkins Powell porzingis and andersen

They would have had to take the other 300 guys you fell in love with during the draft process.

You are borderline delusional and really think you are something - LoL.

Yeah right. The day the draft is here is the day that counts. Due diligence done through the long year is necessary and I share that with everyone for years. It's like a !ath test you can take all of the practice tests you want but the only day that counts is the day of the test. Go sit in the corner and cry about it all you want
Well come on now Briggs you did make threads and posts of a whole lot of players that you said the Knicks should draft and most of them weren't even drafted so of course you're gonna hit on a couple of them when you have that many that you talked about.

BigDaddyG wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TPercy wrote:Can someone please explain how this a good move. He has a horrid offensive game. We don't need more offensive liabilities. We need a center,not him.

You are not going to find all stars to be your 15th player on a minimum contract- what do you expect the talent level to be, honestly? Why cry about something so trivial?

Does it look like I am crying? There is a fine distinction between crying and disagreeing.
He is a terrific defender from what I have heard, but we are loaded with players in his position at the 3 and 4 spot. He can't play center because he is six foot eight and unlike Ndour or draymond green, he posesses 0 offensive game to compensate for his lack of height.

It is clear we are need a center, and viewing robin Lopez injury history, the center we need would need to play significant minutes at one point and I have zero confidence in a majorly undersized offensive liability protecting the rim and running the triangle.

Atkins was an elite defensive player who defended 3-5 and was a rim protector. Not a bad idea to see what he can do. Maybe he shows more in TC and Pre Season.

NCAA Awards & Honors

Lefty Driesell Award (Defensive POY) - 2015
ACC Defensive POY (Media) - 2015
ACC All-Defensive Team (Media) - 2015

This guy is going to end up playing for Westchester. The partial guarantee is just a way of sweetening the pot so he can make more than D-League minimum.

Yep, these guys are just camp bodies who will be playing for or D-league team.

newyorker4ever wrote:

TPercy wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TPercy wrote:Can someone please explain how this a good move. He has a horrid offensive game. We don't need more offensive liabilities. We need a center,not him.

You are not going to find all stars to be your 15th player on a minimum contract- what do you expect the talent level to be, honestly? Why cry about something so trivial?

Does it look like I am crying? There is a fine distinction between crying and disagreeing.
He is a terrific defender from what I have heard, but we are loaded with players in his position at the 3 and 4 spot. He can't play center because he is six foot eight and unlike Ndour or draymond green, he posesses 0 offensive game to compensate for his lack of height.

It is clear we are need a center, and viewing robin Lopez injury history, the center we need would need to play significant minutes at one point and I have zero confidence in a majorly undersized offensive liability protecting the rim and running the triangle.

No it doesn't look like you're crying but it sure does sound like you are.

I have stated my case clearly for why I would not agree with this kind of signing if he was given a roster spot.This is a forum, I have every right to disagree with something and I have stated my reasons why, and that is the best you can do? Gtfo.but you won't. You will probably wait for waltlongmire or fishmike to actually contribute to this discussion and then say "finally a logical knick fan"

Seems like Atkins would have to play something like a KMart role. Active help defender finisher type. If you can't find a good C it may make sense to have a defender who could be very useful as a small ball C.

TPercy wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TPercy wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TPercy wrote:Can someone please explain how this a good move. He has a horrid offensive game. We don't need more offensive liabilities. We need a center,not him.

You are not going to find all stars to be your 15th player on a minimum contract- what do you expect the talent level to be, honestly? Why cry about something so trivial?

Does it look like I am crying? There is a fine distinction between crying and disagreeing.
He is a terrific defender from what I have heard, but we are loaded with players in his position at the 3 and 4 spot. He can't play center because he is six foot eight and unlike Ndour or draymond green, he posesses 0 offensive game to compensate for his lack of height.

It is clear we are need a center, and viewing robin Lopez injury history, the center we need would need to play significant minutes at one point and I have zero confidence in a majorly undersized offensive liability protecting the rim and running the triangle.

No it doesn't look like you're crying but it sure does sound like you are.

I have stated my case clearly for why I would not agree with this kind of signing if he was given a roster spot.This is a forum, I have every right to disagree with something and I have stated my reasons why, and that is the best you can do? Gtfo.but you won't. You will probably wait for waltlongmire or fishmike to actually contribute to this discussion and then say "finally a logical knick fan"

I am not sure but I think they can bring 20 guys to camp. As stated earlier in the thread, the partial guarantee might just be to pay him some money to offset how little he will be paid in westchester.

CrushAlot wrote:

BETTER LATE THAN NEVER: Virginia's Darion Atkins made the most of his last-minute invite, leading the PIT in scoring (20.0 ppg) and blocks (3.7 bpg), while finishing third in rebounding (10.3 rpg) and field goal percentage (60.0). The best part of his performance is that he did it all in the flow of the game. He took good shots. He snatched tough rebounds in traffic. He held his ground defensively, despite being matched up against taller players in the post.

As part of an ensemble cast at Virginia playing limited minutes, it was tough for Atkins to really stand out. It's impossible to ignore how well he played at the PIT. Though a bit undersized at 6-8, Atkins checks in at 240 pounds, with very good length. He plays bigger than you'd expect. And he played about as big as one can play under the hot lights of the PIT.

https://www.portsmouthinvitational.com/2...

Ben Wallace was 6'8. Its clear Atkins is going to be that kind of player

I would rather have a 6'8 guy who is simply a much better player than a 6'11 who sucks but is big.

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BETTER LATE THAN NEVER: Virginia's Darion Atkins made the most of his last-minute invite, leading the PIT in scoring (20.0 ppg) and blocks (3.7 bpg), while finishing third in rebounding (10.3 rpg) and field goal percentage (60.0). The best part of his performance is that he did it all in the flow of the game. He took good shots. He snatched tough rebounds in traffic. He held his ground defensively, despite being matched up against taller players in the post.

As part of an ensemble cast at Virginia playing limited minutes, it was tough for Atkins to really stand out. It's impossible to ignore how well he played at the PIT. Though a bit undersized at 6-8, Atkins checks in at 240 pounds, with very good length. He plays bigger than you'd expect. And he played about as big as one can play under the hot lights of the PIT.

https://www.portsmouthinvitational.com/2...

Ben Wallace was 6'8. Its clear Atkins is going to be that kind of player

I would rather have a 6'8 guy who is simply a much better player than a 6'11 who sucks but is big.

That's what I said too. Why get caught up in the height game? Besides with so many small ball teams it's not absolutely necessary that you have only 7'ers. This kid has proven he can defend and he's not a starter.

Nix I'm still a bit skeptical he could protect the rim against NBA big at center.just because you can do it in college does not mean you can do it in the nba. Nevertheless,the staff will see what he can do in training camp.

I'm beginning to doubt this. I haven't seen one newspaper cover this

You can always take a flyer on a person who was Defensive player of the year at an established top division one conference.He is making a bit more than the league min and would be on the back end of the bench.If you're gonna take a shot on a person.... This is the type.How many years have we sat around here looking at opponents go through us like a sieve.The way I see it.. he's gonna take Thanasis' spot.Again the ACC defensive player of the year is worth the 15th spot on your roster no matter what year it is. Remember guys we just saw "Draymond Green" play center for long stretches during the finals!!!!The league is changing...if this guy can get a consistent 17 footer..he is perfect for what the league is going to.

It must be summer time, we are starting trends on guys who won't likely play 100 minutes all season. Not sure why we would take on yet another PF tweener. We have like 8 guys that can play PF. We need a shooting guard and another shot-blocking center, and then probably another point guard. We don't need another PF. Otherwise, what was the point of signing Thomas and Amundson?

SupremeCommander wrote:I'm beginning to doubt this. I haven't seen one newspaper cover this

Stop reading the newspapers.... those beat writers hate us

Darion Atkins is a training camp invite....too much spinning drama over this.

TPercy wrote:Nix I'm still a bit skeptical he could protect the rim against NBA big at center.just because you can do it in college does not mean you can do it in the nba. Nevertheless,the staff will see what he can do in training camp.

We're mostly talking about HELP defense here. As a man defender against a good 7' post man of course Atkins might have some issues. He'd have to use his leverage to push his man out but I don't think he'd be able to consistently get a hand into the shot of a taller player, but also let's remember he's not going to be a starter and also a LOT of teams are playing small ball and he'd be more than adequate in such a situation. So IMO if a guy like Atkins was going against some bench guys or a small ball big I think he could be fine in off the bench minutes.

Bleacher Report's Center Rankings. I bolded the East guys:

1. DeMarcus Cousins, Sacramento Kings
2. Marc Gasol, Memphis Grizzlies
3. Al Horford, Atlanta Hawks
4. DeAndre Jordan, Los Angeles Clippers
5. Dwight Howard, Houston Rockets
6. Nikola Vucevic, Orlando Magic
7. Andre Drummond, Detroit Pistons
8. Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
9. Joakim Noah, Chicago Bulls
10. Al Jefferson, Charlotte Hornets
11. Tyson Chandler, Dallas Mavericks
12. Marcin Gortat, Washington Wizards
13. Andrew Bogut, Golden State Warriors
14. Timofey Mozgov, Cleveland Cavaliers
15. Hassan Whiteside, Miami Heat
16. Nerlens Noel, Philadelphia 76ers
17. Robin Lopez, Portland Trail Blazers
18. Omer Asik, New Orleans Pelicans
19. Roy Hibbert, Indiana Pacers
20. Gorgui Dieng, Minnesota Timberwolves
21. Brook Lopez, Brooklyn Nets
22. Jonas Valanciunas, Toronto Raptors
23. Tyler Zeller, Boston Celtics
24. Enes Kanter, Oklahoma City Thunder
25. John Henson, Milwaukee Bucks
26. Alex Len, Phoenix Suns
27. Steven Adams, Oklahoma City Thunder
28. Marreese Speights, Golden State Warriors
29. Jordan Hill, Los Angeles Lakers
30. Nikola Pekovic, Minnesota Timberwolves
31. Chris Kaman, Portland Trail Blazers
32. Anderson Varejao, Cleveland Cavaliers
33. Kosta Koufos, Memphis Grizzlies
34. Meyers Leonard, Portland Trail Blazers
35. Kevin Seraphin, Washington Wizards
36. Jusuf Nurkic, Denver Nuggets
37. Tiago Splitter, San Antonio Spurs
38. Kelly Olynyk, Boston Celtics

NEver seen him play except for the videos here. Looks athletic and appears to be defensive minded. Again, this is a theme with the players that have been added this summer.

Remember Phil said that he will change the players around Carmelo. Every player is virtually the opposite to Melo. THey have high BBall IQ, they are athletic, unselfish and defensive minded. This is a culture change and maybe he is hoping that Melo adapts (14 against 1) or that he simply gives up and asks out. Either way, its great for the Knicks. Yes, Melo is a talent but at the cost of the team, talent is not the end all.

I hope that Melo finally gets it but my guess is he won't. If he does, he could become a winner here and go down as a Knicks legend. OTherwise he will be just another in a long line of failed superstars who were to ME driven.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:NEver seen him play except for the videos here. Looks athletic and appears to be defensive minded. Again, this is a theme with the players that have been added this summer.

Remember Phil said that he will change the players around Carmelo. Every player is virtually the opposite to Melo. THey have high BBall IQ, they are athletic, unselfish and defensive minded. This is a culture change and maybe he is hoping that Melo adapts (14 against 1) or that he simply gives up and asks out. Either way, its great for the Knicks. Yes, Melo is a talent but at the cost of the team, talent is not the end all.

I hope that Melo finally gets it but my guess is he won't. If he does, he could become a winner here and go down as a Knicks legend. OTherwise he will be just another in a long line of failed superstars who were to ME driven.

I actually believe Melo will be fine. He's really not the problem that some seem to think he is. For the most part he wasn't a hindrance to success during the best part of the 54 win season. It only became an issue when the old guys broke down and could no longer contribute at the level they started with. With this roster having more young players who should have no problem maintaining their output level I think Melo should fit in just fine. He won't feel the need to take over and dominate the shots if his supporting cast is doing their thing.

More importantly as you point out it's really going to be about the improved defensive posture of this roster. The better this team is defensively and on the boards the better things will be overall. That's the area this team needs to make the most progress. If they can make major gains on defense that will make everything fall into place. This is why i'm pretty optimistic about the teams chances of getting in the playoff race. When a team can fall back on their defense and hits the boards they will be competitive every night.

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:Nix I'm still a bit skeptical he could protect the rim against NBA big at center.just because you can do it in college does not mean you can do it in the nba. Nevertheless,the staff will see what he can do in training camp.

We're mostly talking about HELP defense here. As a man defender against a good 7' post man of course Atkins might have some issues. He'd have to use his leverage to push his man out but I don't think he'd be able to consistently get a hand into the shot of a taller player, but also let's remember he's not going to be a starter and also a LOT of teams are playing small ball and he'd be more than adequate in such a situation. So IMO if a guy like Atkins was going against some bench guys or a small ball big I think he could be fine in off the bench minutes.

Bleacher Report's Center Rankings. I bolded the East guys:

1. DeMarcus Cousins, Sacramento Kings
2. Marc Gasol, Memphis Grizzlies
3. Al Horford, Atlanta Hawks
4. DeAndre Jordan, Los Angeles Clippers
5. Dwight Howard, Houston Rockets
6. Nikola Vucevic, Orlando Magic
7. Andre Drummond, Detroit Pistons
8. Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
9. Joakim Noah, Chicago Bulls
10. Al Jefferson, Charlotte Hornets
11. Tyson Chandler, Dallas Mavericks
12. Marcin Gortat, Washington Wizards
13. Andrew Bogut, Golden State Warriors
14. Timofey Mozgov, Cleveland Cavaliers
15. Hassan Whiteside, Miami Heat
16. Nerlens Noel, Philadelphia 76ers
17. Robin Lopez, Portland Trail Blazers
18. Omer Asik, New Orleans Pelicans
19. Roy Hibbert, Indiana Pacers
20. Gorgui Dieng, Minnesota Timberwolves
21. Brook Lopez, Brooklyn Nets
22. Jonas Valanciunas, Toronto Raptors
23. Tyler Zeller, Boston Celtics
24. Enes Kanter, Oklahoma City Thunder
25. John Henson, Milwaukee Bucks
26. Alex Len, Phoenix Suns
27. Steven Adams, Oklahoma City Thunder
28. Marreese Speights, Golden State Warriors
29. Jordan Hill, Los Angeles Lakers
30. Nikola Pekovic, Minnesota Timberwolves
31. Chris Kaman, Portland Trail Blazers
32. Anderson Varejao, Cleveland Cavaliers
33. Kosta Koufos, Memphis Grizzlies
34. Meyers Leonard, Portland Trail Blazers
35. Kevin Seraphin, Washington Wizards
36. Jusuf Nurkic, Denver Nuggets
37. Tiago Splitter, San Antonio Spurs
38. Kelly Olynyk, Boston Celtics

Nix those guys are 6 feet ten and above. He will still have quite a lot of problems imo if he were to go.against them. How many teams use small ball again other than gsw?