Knicks · Kristaps P=superstar (page 1)

in the making. Will not happen for 2 years but he is the absolute superstar center here once his body and game fill and grow out. Thats why I kind of want Carmelo to be traded at maximum value anyway--because I dont believe we have a chance in hll to win with Cleveland in our conference. That would give Carmelo a chance with another team and we can continue to re-do the roster with hopes we can find a star guard to go along with Kristaps for the future. It will take 2-3 years for Clev to burn out so we have that time to build out for our run.

I like that the Knicks have tried to find some younger players to build with. We havent been very successful with mostly raw talent Layberdie Thansis Early Ledo etc.. but hopefully we can tweak our evaluation process a bit as well.

I hope so for the sake of many Knick fans because there's a lot of expectations on Kristaps. It would be sad to see him not live up to the hype and potential many are giving him.

wh4t wrote:I hope so for the sake of many Knick fans because there's a lot of expectations on Kristaps. It would be sad to see him not live up to the hype and potential many are giving him.

I don't think there is alot of pressure on the kid. I think that was lifted once he proved he wasn't soft and could play on both sides of the ball.

I think most fans understand is going to be a while with him, but he should be in rotation right away. After next year he might even be starting. That's the wait and see, but the kid is off the hook for now imho

BRIGGS wrote:in the making. Will not happen for 2 years but he is the absolute superstar center here once his body and game fill and grow out. Thats why I kind of want Carmelo to be traded at maximum value anyway--because I dont believe we have a chance in hll to win with Cleveland in our conference. That would give Carmelo a chance with another team and we can continue to re-do the roster with hopes we can find a star guard to go along with Kristaps for the future. It will take 2-3 years for Clev to burn out so we have that time to build out for our run.

I like that the Knicks have tried to find some younger players to build with. We havent been very successful with mostly raw talent Layberdie Thansis Early Ledo etc.. but hopefully we can tweak our evaluation process a bit as well.

"maximum value" for Carmelo will be either at the trade deadline this year or next offseason coming off of a strong season. Melo still hasn't started his knee surgery rehab; nobody would take him right now. best case, in my opinion, is he has another strong 28/8 type season but the Knicks finish 9th in the East. next July, with cap rising again, we deal him for a few young guys and picks and take back no long-term salary.

Many of us would agree that KP can become a superstar. The guy is just oozing with Talent, and at his size, wow.

Regarding Melo and trading him, the best thing we could do would be to raise his value. If it looks like we are not going to amount to much as the season progresses, then perhaps it would be wise to ship him off IF we could get some great assets back. That is the thing, who is going to give up much to get him? I don't think Chicago gives up Butler, but there is a chance.

If Melo wants out though, we probably move him and get back what we can. I am all for building a team and Melo needs an Alpha male on the team. I just don't see that anytime soon. Grant, if he can be that, needs some time. KP seems like his game will speak louder than his words.

earthmansurfer wrote:Regarding Melo and trading him, the best thing we could do would be to raise his value.

The general problem is the team CANNOT RAISE MELOS TRADE VALUE

The guy has a No Trade Clause. The only practical trade would be the Lakers, given it's a fit for the large market Melo desires and there's a history with Phil Jackson and that franchise and that franchise looks to acquire a "big name" for when Kobe Bryant finally burns out.

Raising someone's trade value would be like having the Red Sox and the Yankees fight over a player at the trade deadline in the past. Except in this case, said player can say - I'm only going to the Red Sox, thus removing almost all trade leverage of having the Yankees in play.

I think folks have to get truly realistic here. 10 cents on the dollar. 15 cents on the dollar. That's all the Knicks are going to get here if Melo is traded. He's not going to agree to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team. There's a good chance the Knicks will have to take a mediocre contract back as well to make the salaries match.

To drive down the price, Melo will do what many athletes do. Attack the fanbase, attack the front office, attack his team mates in the press, act like a malcontent, refuse to play even less defense than before, shotjack and never pass the ball. Basically be a sulking bitch, which Melo seems to do well.

For Zinger's sake, the Knicks better hope Melo is off the roster IF Zinger does turn into a franchise core. Fans chanting for Zinger and him getting any kind of real press buzz will only incite a low IQ selfish chucker like Melo.

What's going to amuse me the most, what will make me laugh out loud, is when Melo does get traded, that the most ardent Melo ball lickers on this forum, who try to excuse every last horse shit / team killing behavior he does, will finally turn on him and start to trash on him.

I'm hoping he has a better career then Shawn Bradley who came into the league with similar hype. KP looks like he has a stronger work ethic so you could be right Briggs. As far as a trade destination for Melo, I think if anything is going to happen it will be next summer when teams have cap room. He isn't going to approve going to a rebuild and a contender isn't going to gut the roster for him.

EnySpree wrote:

wh4t wrote:I hope so for the sake of many Knick fans because there's a lot of expectations on Kristaps. It would be sad to see him not live up to the hype and potential many are giving him.

I don't think there is alot of pressure on the kid. I think that was lifted once he proved he wasn't soft and could play on both sides of the ball.

I think most fans understand is going to be a while with him, but he should be in rotation right away. After next year he might even be starting. That's the wait and see, but the kid is off the hook for now imho

I agree......KP is a player with franchise talent. But don't forgot he could also stunt his growth and never reach his potential. Let's hope he has the will to be the best. KG is his favorite player which is great. I can see him developing a 2way game like KG.

I like even as a roll player he will impact the game as a rookie. I just worry the pressure to be great could be his worst enemy.

Trade melo to the Spurs. He will never turn down a chance for a ring.

TripleThreat wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Regarding Melo and trading him, the best thing we could do would be to raise his value.

The general problem is the team CANNOT RAISE MELOS TRADE VALUE

The guy has a No Trade Clause. The only practical trade would be the Lakers, given it's a fit for the large market Melo desires and there's a history with Phil Jackson and that franchise and that franchise looks to acquire a "big name" for when Kobe Bryant finally burns out.

Raising someone's trade value would be like having the Red Sox and the Yankees fight over a player at the trade deadline in the past. Except in this case, said player can say - I'm only going to the Red Sox, thus removing almost all trade leverage of having the Yankees in play.

I think folks have to get truly realistic here. 10 cents on the dollar. 15 cents on the dollar. That's all the Knicks are going to get here if Melo is traded. He's not going to agree to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team. There's a good chance the Knicks will have to take a mediocre contract back as well to make the salaries match.

To drive down the price, Melo will do what many athletes do. Attack the fanbase, attack the front office, attack his team mates in the press, act like a malcontent, refuse to play even less defense than before, shotjack and never pass the ball. Basically be a sulking bitch, which Melo seems to do well.

For Zinger's sake, the Knicks better hope Melo is off the roster IF Zinger does turn into a franchise core. Fans chanting for Zinger and him getting any kind of real press buzz will only incite a low IQ selfish chucker like Melo.

What's going to amuse me the most, what will make me laugh out loud, is when Melo does get traded, that the most ardent Melo ball lickers on this forum, who try to excuse every last horse shit / team killing behavior he does, will finally turn on him and start to trash on him.

I should have been more clear. Melo is coming off of surgery. If he shows he is healthy and dominant, he will have plenty of value. And having a good team around him, like we now have, we will have takers.

I'm aware of his no trade clause, but as you alluded to, it is more of a "select few teams trade clause".
If another team see's there window closing, they might swap the one young guy on their team (who has potential) for Melo, who gets them there.

LOL with you last comments. I don't doubt it happens.

Rookie wrote:I'm hoping he has a better career then Shawn Bradley who came into the league with similar hype. KP looks like he has a stronger work ethic so you could be right Briggs. As far as a trade destination for Melo, I think if anything is going to happen it will be next summer when teams have cap room. He isn't going to approve going to a rebuild and a contender isn't going to gut the roster for him.

How could you even compare the two? Another tall and white comparison. They are nothing alike outside of that. You need to go back an watch some tape of Mr. Bradley.

earthmansurfer wrote:

Rookie wrote:I'm hoping he has a better career then Shawn Bradley who came into the league with similar hype. KP looks like he has a stronger work ethic so you could be right Briggs. As far as a trade destination for Melo, I think if anything is going to happen it will be next summer when teams have cap room. He isn't going to approve going to a rebuild and a contender isn't going to gut the roster for him.

How could you even compare the two? Another tall and white comparison. They are nothing alike outside of that. You need to go back an watch some tape of Mr. Bradley.

yes both tall and white, but they are both athletic for their size and about the same build. Bradley also needed to add weight/size. Bradley used his length to intimidate around the rim. The comparison ends with KP's sweet looking jump shot. The big problem with Bradley was that he would show glimpses of his potential but for the most part he was inconsistent. This is where I think KP's work ethic gives him an advantage in the comparison

I definitely see star potential, but I need more then a few summer league games to make a true evaluation. Without melo, KP's life on the court becomes that much difficult.

Why you guys are so hell bent on trading melo, is just short sighted.

i think it's an unfair if not unrealistic tag to put on this kid. if anything gets him there though it will be as one of the more versatile players in the league. i am hoping that the coaching staff can make the triangle a system of more or less "positionless" basketball, since "positionlessness" requires versatility from its practitioners.

knicks1248 wrote:I definitely see star potential, but I need more then a few summer league games to make a true evaluation. Without melo, KP's life on the court becomes that much difficult.

Why you guys are so hell bent on trading melo, is just short sighted.

I don't think it is quite like that. Melo is 31 years old! We have a team that is not going to compete for a chip this year. If we don't strike it big in 2016 FA then I just can't see Melo staying. I don't think for either party that it would be in their best interests.

trading Melo if you think KP is going to be a superstar makes no sense to me. Why would you want to put more pressure on KP now? If you take the view that Melo hurts the team, wouldn't you want KP to learn from Melo's failures?

I like KP as much, or more, as anyone here...and see a ton of potential, but using the superstar designation in the same sentence with his name seems kind of premature at this time.

You will have a better idea of what he will become during his third year, or perhaps the second half of year two, but a lot of it depends on how fast his body matures.

He will also have to learn to be a little more selfish in terms of looking for his own show, IMO, something that he was not urged to do that much while playing in Spain.

if the knicks win 33-34 games-- that will be significant but not necessarily an indication of kp's impact. now, if the knicks make some noise in the playoffs it will likely be due to kp emerging... and i will be thrilled.

He is more of a PF/C then a pure center. Hopefully is able to be spoken in the same sentence and grow in the mold of a KG, Dirk, Gasol, Davis.

If we played heavy heavy PNR his offensive game is tailor made for that with his mobility, length, stroke, ability to put the ball on the floor. He just wouldn't be strong enough yet to set hard picks to clear the guard.

I don't think there's any pressure at all on Kristaps right now. For the most part, he's sort of a mystery and unknown commodity, just flying under the radar. It's the reason most fans in attendance on draft night booed him, they never heard of him.

Most knowledgeable fans conceed that Kristaps is a project, a high risk high reward one. If you nurture and let him grow, you can get a great reward, potentially a franchise changing one. Might take 2 or 3 years, might take 4 or 5.

Melo is the one in the pressure cooker at the moment. He's the got the big contract, he's got the infusion of youth and talent. He's the one coming back from major knee surgery and has to prove he's still got trade value.

It's unfortunate that it has to be an either or situation, but in order for Kristaps to grow, Melo eventually has to be moved.

Good riddance!

newyorknewyork wrote:He is more of a PF/C then a pure center. Hopefully is able to be spoken in the same sentence and grow in the mold of a KG, Dirk, Gasol, Davis.

If we played heavy heavy PNR his offensive game is tailor made for that with his mobility, length, stroke, ability to put the ball on the floor. He just wouldn't be strong enough yet to set hard picks to clear the guard.

We will not be a pure PnR team but rather use a lot of Drag Screens merged with our normal Triangle offense which will perfectly suit KP's talents. KP is used to playing that way, which you can see in any of his videos from the ACB. KP is most certainly strong enough and willing to set screens and he's already shown that he's good at it. I'm not sure why you think he can't set hard picks. There will be plenty of diverse looks for KP in this offense, which will allow him to use all of his skills.

Just looking at the small sample from Summer League should give a clear indication of how KP will be able to keep moving and find the open spots on the floor, set screens, roll, flash into the paint etc.

Let's hope KP is more like Dirk, Durant & Gasol. A unique 7'3" player with a combination of all of their skills offensively while playing great defense with his size, quickness and shot locking ability.

Let's pray he is not Andrea Bargnani who came into the league with just as much if not more hype. He was suppose to be the taller Dirk Nowitski with inside and outside skills. But he is was soft, disinterested and a bad overall defender at 7ft.

Why I feel KP will live up to his potential is the fact that he is the anti Bargnani personality wise and he wants to be great, loves the game and has a superior work ethic.

He doesn't have to be a great rebounder if he's playing next to a guy who swallows rebounds. He just needs to be an adequate rebounding center. 7-9 boards a game as he gets stronger and lots more minutes.

It is very exciting!

Maybe one day we can sign Towns or Anthony Davis to play center and form one of if not the most dominant front court in NBA history.

The beauty in KP is he can play with anyone. At 7'3 with his speed, long range shooting ability, guard-like playmaking and defense. A special one of a kind talent indeed