Knicks · Interesting post From a poster on Reddit, titles his post, 'The Melo Factor' (page 1)
I want to see how his teammates play off of him. Jose and Jerian are very good passers and it will be interesting to see how they all play off each other. This is a very interesting offense for Melo to play in and we didn't get to see him enough last year and not with quality PG's like Jose and Jerian. If the ball movement is great it should really open things up. O'Quinn, RoLo and KP have good enough passing talent as does Melo and we need to see them sharing the ball. There's no reason this team shouldn't be one of our better passing teams.
Wonder when part 2 is coming out?
jrodmc wrote:Nice post. Looks like a pretty open minded, balanced look at the numbers. Showed how Melo seemingly helped some and hurt others.Wonder when part 2 is coming out?
The reddit forum is awesome. You don't have the dialogue/debate that you have here but guys are up on current knick news.
CrushAlot wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...
What factor is that? We've been under .500 with him in his 5 years here. He's a good player but he can't hold Patrick Ewings jockstrap. We have pieces that if melo is that good we should win 54 games again but I doubt it.
BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...What factor is that? We've been under .500 with him in his 5 years here. He's a good player but he can't hold Patrick Ewings jockstrap. We have pieces that if melo is that good we should win 54 games again but I doubt it.
You would have to read it. The op looks at 19 players that played with Melo including some nuggets. It is interesting read.
Just looking at the make up of this group it seems like there are a lot more stable characters. Tho we still have to see how things go, but based on reputation this group seems pretty stable and higher character than in the past.
nixluva wrote:Melo isn't perfect but he's not the problem. I actually think this is perhaps starting to be a front office and roster that may provide a more stable support behind Melo. Since he got here the team has always been kind of sketchy at times with Dolan, front office issues, players personal issues, poor health and the character of the players. This front office and roster may have a better chance to avoid a lot of those issues. It'll be very interesting to see how this group performs. Melo is just the easy target to go after and i've had my issues with Melo in the past but most of the problems come from other factors besides Melo.Just looking at the make up of this group it seems like there are a lot more stable characters. Tho we still have to see how things go, but based on reputation this group seems pretty stable and higher character than in the past.
i agree 100% with this post. melo has been an innocent victim from day 1 and not at all a catalyst or an active agent in the sub-.500 record the franchise has amassed since his glorious arrival as THE franchise talent that merely needs a decent supporting cast for his elite nba exploits. why just think, had he played an active role in his own life and actually made decisions based on his own values, EVERYTHING would have been different. but hey, that's life: we don't ever control our own destiny so we never need to take ownership of anything that befalls us.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:Melo isn't perfect but he's not the problem. I actually think this is perhaps starting to be a front office and roster that may provide a more stable support behind Melo. Since he got here the team has always been kind of sketchy at times with Dolan, front office issues, players personal issues, poor health and the character of the players. This front office and roster may have a better chance to avoid a lot of those issues. It'll be very interesting to see how this group performs. Melo is just the easy target to go after and i've had my issues with Melo in the past but most of the problems come from other factors besides Melo.Just looking at the make up of this group it seems like there are a lot more stable characters. Tho we still have to see how things go, but based on reputation this group seems pretty stable and higher character than in the past.
i agree 100% with this post. melo has been an innocent victim from day 1 and not at all a catalyst or an active agent in the sub-.500 record the franchise has amassed since his glorious arrival as THE franchise talent that merely needs a decent supporting cast for his elite nba exploits. why just think, had he played an active role in his own life and actually made decisions based on his own values, EVERYTHING would have been different. but hey, that's life: we don't ever control our own destiny so we never need to take ownership of anything that befalls us.
Nice way to totally ignore the bulk of my post which you didn't address at all. Tell me that this franchise has been stable over the course of Melo's tenure and that the character issues and health issues haven't had a major impact. Tell me that Dolan's interference hasn't been an issue as well. No one is excusing Melo's faults and I have bashed Melo in the past. The thing is that when the roster around him is functional he is not a detriment to winning as the 54 win season clearly demonstrated. Perhaps you can't see this with the jaded and biased point of view you are taking.
If Melo is a detriment to winning why then did the 54 win team find such early success and falter when the players broke down or slumped around Melo? Clearly when his teammates were able to hold up their end the team won games. IMO this is basically what Phil is looking to do with the team now. Build up the team around Melo and let him do what he does. He doesn't have to be Lebron in order for this team to win as again was demonstrated during the 54 win season. What we need is for this team to have quality production at the other spots like we did in 2012-13 to start the season.
There wasn't perfect health in 2012-13 either but in terms of getting good production to start the year this team was getting that. If we could get stable and consistent production for an entire season that would make all the difference in the world. When you really look at the stats from that season it's clear that things were heavily impacted by health. Even the core players at the top of the rotation missed games. IMO it's not hard to imagine this new roster being more reliable in terms of games played. That along with more consistently solid production could make a huge difference. The 2012-13 season showed that you don't need a team full of Elites in order to win but you do need reasonable quality play, some consistency and good health.
2012-13 Regular Season
PLAYER GP GS MIN PPG OFFR DEFR RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FPG A/TO PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF 67 67 37.0 28.7 2.0 4.9 6.9 2.6 0.78 0.48 2.6 3.1 1.0 24.8
Raymond Felton, PG 68 68 34.0 13.9 0.8 2.1 2.9 5.5 1.38 0.21 2.3 1.9 2.4 15.2
J.R. Smith, SG 80 0 33.5 18.1 0.8 4.5 5.3 2.7 1.25 0.30 1.7 2.8 1.6 17.7
Tyson Chandler, C 66 66 32.8 10.4 4.1 6.6 10.7 0.9 0.64 1.14 1.3 2.8 0.7 18.9
Jason Kidd, PG 76 48 26.9 6.0 0.7 3.6 4.3 3.3 1.64 0.33 1.0 1.6 3.3 13.5
Iman Shumpert, SG 45 45 22.1 6.8 0.7 2.3 3.0 1.7 0.96 0.16 0.8 2.2 2.0 11.7
Steve Novak, SF 81 1 20.3 6.6 0.2 1.7 1.9 0.4 0.35 0.10 0.1 1.2 2.9 11.3
Pablo Prigioni, PG 78 18 16.2 3.5 0.5 1.3 1.8 3.0 0.88 0.03 1.1 1.6 2.7 13.0
Chris Copeland, SF 56 13 15.4 8.7 0.6 1.5 2.1 0.5 0.29 0.21 0.9 1.9 0.5 16.9
James White, SG 57 16 7.6 2.2 0.1 0.8 0.8 0.5 0.23 0.07 0.3 0.8 1.7 9.1
Ronnie Brewer, SF† 46 34 15.5 3.6 0.6 1.5 2.2 0.9 0.74 0.13 0.3 0.6 2.9 10.2
Kurt Thomas, PF 39 17 10.1 2.5 0.6 1.7 2.3 0.5 0.26 0.41 0.2 1.3 2.6 13.3
Amar'e Stoudemire, PF 29 0 23.5 14.2 2.1 2.9 5.0 0.4 0.34 0.72 1.7 3.1 0.3 22.2
Marcus Camby, C 24 4 10.4 1.8 1.0 2.3 3.3 0.6 0.29 0.58 0.6 1.2 0.9 8.6
Rasheed Wallace, PF 21 0 14.1 7.0 0.5 3.4 4.0 0.3 0.62 0.71 0.5 1.9 0.6 16.7
Kenyon Martin, PF 18 11 23.9 7.2 1.9 3.4 5.3 0.4 0.89 0.94 0.9 3.6 0.5 13.92012-13 Playoffs
PLAYER GP GS MIN PPG OFFR DEFR RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FPG A/TO
Carmelo Anthony, SF 12 12 40.1 28.8 0.9 5.7 6.6 1.6 1.08 0.17 2.6 3.8 0.6
Raymond Felton, PG 12 12 37.8 14.1 1.4 2.0 3.4 4.7 1.67 0.42 1.7 2.2 2.8
J.R. Smith, SG 11 0 31.9 14.3 0.5 4.2 4.7 1.4 1.00 0.45 1.8 2.5 0.8
Tyson Chandler, C 12 12 29.2 5.7 3.3 4.0 7.3 0.3 0.67 1.17 0.9 4.0 0.4
Iman Shumpert, SG 12 12 28.1 9.3 1.5 4.5 6.0 1.3 1.08 0.25 1.2 3.0 1.1
Kenyon Martin, PF 12 1 21.1 5.8 1.3 3.2 4.5 0.9 0.75 1.42 0.7 3.5 1.4
Pablo Prigioni, PG 11 10 20.9 4.5 0.2 1.4 1.5 3.2 1.27 0.09 0.5 1.9 5.8
Jason Kidd, PG 12 0 20.6 0.9 0.6 2.9 3.5 2.0 1.00 0.33 1.1 1.0 1.8
Chris Copeland, SF 9 1 10.3 4.1 0.2 0.8 1.0 0.1 0.56 0.00 0.4 1.0 0.3
Amar'e Stoudemire, PF 4 0 8.3 3.8 1.0 1.3 2.3 0.0 0.00 0.00 0.8 2.3 0.0
Steve Novak, SF 9 0 5.6 2.0 0.2 0.2 0.4 0.0 0.11 0.00 0.0 0.6 0.0
Quentin Richardson, SF 5 0 2.8 1.2 0.2 0.4 0.6 0.0 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.4 0.0
James White, SG 4 0 2.3 1.0 0.3 0.3 0.5 0.0 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.3 0.0
Marcus Camby, C 3 0 1.0 0.7 0.3 0.3 0.7 0.0 0.00 0.00 0.3 0.3 0.0
CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...What factor is that? We've been under .500 with him in his 5 years here. He's a good player but he can't hold Patrick Ewings jockstrap. We have pieces that if melo is that good we should win 54 games again but I doubt it.
You would have to read it. The op looks at 19 players that played with Melo including some nuggets. It is interesting read.
I did read it. I'm not big on analytics in basketball. It's pretty simple from the human eye Carmelo is a really good player but he could not hold patricks jockstrap he's not up there with Ewing
BRIGGS wrote:I agree with you about melo/Ewing but the guy didn't compare them. His point was simply that the numbers he used indicated Melo made his teammates better. Also not a big analytics fan. I watch the games.CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...What factor is that? We've been under .500 with him in his 5 years here. He's a good player but he can't hold Patrick Ewings jockstrap. We have pieces that if melo is that good we should win 54 games again but I doubt it.
You would have to read it. The op looks at 19 players that played with Melo including some nuggets. It is interesting read.
I did read it. I'm not big on analytics in basketball. It's pretty simple from the human eye Carmelo is a really good player but he could not hold patricks jockstrap he's not up there with Ewing
BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...What factor is that? We've been under .500 with him in his 5 years here. He's a good player but he can't hold Patrick Ewings jockstrap. We have pieces that if melo is that good we should win 54 games again but I doubt it.
You would have to read it. The op looks at 19 players that played with Melo including some nuggets. It is interesting read.
I did read it. I'm not big on analytics in basketball. It's pretty simple from the human eye Carmelo is a really good player but he could not hold patricks jockstrap he's not up there with Ewing
no sh1t!
Its good that everyone else is big on analytics in basketball.
I am not big on da computah.
mreinman wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...What factor is that? We've been under .500 with him in his 5 years here. He's a good player but he can't hold Patrick Ewings jockstrap. We have pieces that if melo is that good we should win 54 games again but I doubt it.
You would have to read it. The op looks at 19 players that played with Melo including some nuggets. It is interesting read.
I did read it. I'm not big on analytics in basketball. It's pretty simple from the human eye Carmelo is a really good player but he could not hold patricks jockstrap he's not up there with Ewingno sh1t!
Its good that everyone else is big on analytics in basketball.
I am not big on da computah.
You never explained the differences in WS(48) between Jimmy Bulter and Kemba Walker in their rookie season..Same effective fg%..Or any analytic guru for that matter..
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...What factor is that? We've been under .500 with him in his 5 years here. He's a good player but he can't hold Patrick Ewings jockstrap. We have pieces that if melo is that good we should win 54 games again but I doubt it.
You would have to read it. The op looks at 19 players that played with Melo including some nuggets. It is interesting read.
I did read it. I'm not big on analytics in basketball. It's pretty simple from the human eye Carmelo is a really good player but he could not hold patricks jockstrap he's not up there with Ewingno sh1t!
Its good that everyone else is big on analytics in basketball.
I am not big on da computah.
You never explained the differences in WS(48) between Jimmy Bulter and Kemba Walker in their rookie season..Same effective fg%..Or any analytic guru for that matter..
uh .... did you take a look at their TS's?