Knicks · I dont see any formula for this team to win big for years with Melo (page 1)
He's a dinosaur on this team. Round peg in a square hole. This is a young uptempo team, and his old 31 year no legs jab stepping ass don't fit anymore.
What a news...
Everybody knows that.
Its fine... we need another 2 years min to build the team.
Melo will provide entertainment for the time being.
Knicks1969 wrote:Give the dude a little time to regain his form. He will have good and bad nights; more so on nights where he is guarded by a studd defender like Leonard
To what? Regain his 40% shooting stroke.
3 out of 4 games that he's done nothing to help his team. I'm pretty sure he's the Knick leader in plus minus (the minus part).
Epitome of a net negative player. Smart thing to do is lower Melo's minutes and give them to DWill.
BRIGGS wrote:He takes 20 shots a game and hes a feast or famine player. He winces every game --its just not going to be a fit where we are and where he is. Hed be better off on a team he can form into that is ahead of the Knicks--this Knick team is a team that needs to build an independent identity with play that does not focus on coming down and getting Melo the ball 2 out of 3 plays. And some of that is not Melo's fault he just came to a team 5 years ago that desperately needed a player to take command--its just not going to work big here. If you cant win with it you change it --if you can.
You my friend dont know what the hell your talking about, what scorer do you know that doesn't take 20+ shots? Stop complaining every time melo has a bad shooting night and we lose.
Focus on what the team and the coaching staff can improve on, instead of thinking it's always melo's fault that's getting tired and redundant.
Finestrg wrote:First gotta see what this team looks like when Afflalo makes it back 100% but yeah, I can't lie and say I haven't been thinking the same thing. And this isn't being reactionary to him not shooting well 3 out of the first 4 games -- it's all about what's in the best interest of this team moving forward for me....Trying to keep it real--we're not getting a king's ransom for Carmelo Anthony, at least I don't see that. His no-trade clause really narrows options down considerably for us too. Point blank -- he's a win now player on a team that may not be ready to win for a few years. Do we stick with him in the hopes that he's still a top level player 2 or 3 years from now (how realistic is that scenario?) or do we try to trade him off soon and get another couple of assets to continue rebuilding with? It's not a decision to be made right now I suppose
i agree with these thoughts 100%
my favorite line: "Point blank -- he's a win now player on a team that may not be ready to win for a few years."
Makes no sense to get all bent out of shape about Melo with all this young talent showing so much potential. I'm STOKED about this team's future.
BRIGGS wrote:He takes 20 shots a game and hes a feast or famine player. He winces every game --its just not going to be a fit where we are and where he is. Hed be better off on a team he can form into that is ahead of the Knicks--this Knick team is a team that needs to build an independent identity with play that does not focus on coming down and getting Melo the ball 2 out of 3 plays. And some of that is not Melo's fault he just came to a team 5 years ago that desperately needed a player to take command--its just not going to work big here. If you cant win with it you change it --if you can.
Would love to send Melo to Wiz for B-Beal package-- maybe with Nene included but don't see Wiz being dumb enough to do that. Beal would be great fit in triangle and next to KP6 for next8 years or so.
In the meantime, I expect some growing pains from this team, including Melo. We have the worst starting backcourt in the league right now, thats putting us at a disadvantage from the start. I dont know if the answer is Grant and Galloway, or Grant and Afflalo, but once we get some consistent production from the starting backcourt, Melo should play his role better. My biggest problem with his game is that he makes things much too hard on himself by not using screens.
Porzingis and Grant are showing that the future for this team is bright, some of you might add a few years to your life if you focus on that instead of your very strong feelings about Melo.
GustavBahler wrote:In the not so distant future, this will be Porzingis's team. When that happens, Melo's role will diminish wether he likes it or not. If the team isn't a legit contender by then, I wouldn't be surprised if Melo waves his no trade clause and tries to go to a contender, can tell fans the team is in good hands.In the meantime, I expect some growing pains from this team, including Melo. We have the worst starting backcourt in the league right now, thats putting us at a disadvantage from the start. I dont know if the answer is Grant and Galloway, or Grant and Afflalo, but once we get some consistent production from the starting backcourt, Melo should play his role better. My biggest problem with his game is that he makes things much too hard on himself by not using screens.
Porzingis and Grant are showing that the future for this team is bright, some of you might add a few years to your life if you focus on that instead of your very strong feelings about Melo.
Yep there are some pieces here. Hopefully Melo shows off well enough that we can move him for something reasonably valuable for the future that also benefits Melo.
I do feel the need to say this once again for the folks who seemed to marginalize the timing of his operation and decision to play as long as he did last season...you are very wrong if you think that he would not be in better shape for THIS season if he had been operated on sooner rather than later. "Spilled milk," yup, but there is still an odor from it, and Melo's up and down play and diminished physical ability is partly a result of this, no matter what some of you want to think.
I'm hoping, though, that his recovery will end soon, and we will see a quicker Anthony with a some better jumping ability.
SA played some tenacious D, and Anthony had to square off with one of the best defenders in the game, so I expected him to have some problems, but I'm worried because I saw more standing around, not enough open jumpers, and a Woodson era tendency to give the ball to Anthony at times when it should have been moved around.
Said it during the game thread...Anthony was taking things personally and it showed in his play-and right now he is not the kind of player who can be successful doing this, especially against a team like the Spurs.
As the noted philosopher Dirty Harry once said- "A man's got to know his limitations."
BRIGGS wrote:GustavBahler wrote:In the not so distant future, this will be Porzingis's team. When that happens, Melo's role will diminish wether he likes it or not. If the team isn't a legit contender by then, I wouldn't be surprised if Melo waves his no trade clause and tries to go to a contender, can tell fans the team is in good hands.In the meantime, I expect some growing pains from this team, including Melo. We have the worst starting backcourt in the league right now, thats putting us at a disadvantage from the start. I dont know if the answer is Grant and Galloway, or Grant and Afflalo, but once we get some consistent production from the starting backcourt, Melo should play his role better. My biggest problem with his game is that he makes things much too hard on himself by not using screens.
Porzingis and Grant are showing that the future for this team is bright, some of you might add a few years to your life if you focus on that instead of your very strong feelings about Melo.
Yep there are some pieces here. Hopefully Melo shows off well enough that we can move him for something reasonably valuable for the future that also benefits Melo.
I rather keep melo and move fans like you. I hope you only represent the minority of knick fans. It's really getting old. The only player you would be happy with is Jesus in a tang top. And I bet you would still find something to complain about. I disliked Melos game more than anybody, but you would never know. I appreciate what you bring to this forum. Your view points creates several threads all the time, which is good. But damn man, if melo was that bad then Phil ( who forgot more about basketball than u would ever know) wouldnt have gave him a max contract with a no trade clause.
You better off trying to see how this will work with melo, instead of taking the easy route by pushing the reset button every freaking year. Fans like this is why it's so difficult to find a top player to come here. I'm from NY and I would turn down this team in a second because of groutchy impatient fickle fans. Melo is a knick....get over it and move on. We finally have more good things than bad things to talk about, but yet the hatred keeps over flowing.
WaltLongmire wrote:I've been on a self-imposed ban to not be as critical of Anthony as I have been in the past. Hard for me to judge what % of Carmelo's problems at this point are age or injury recovery related. I figure that you will have ups and downs when recovering from an injury, yet I recall seeing evidence of him slowing down the season before the last one. I'm just not sure what 100% means for him at this point.I do feel the need to say this once again for the folks who seemed to marginalize the timing of his operation and decision to play as long as he did last season...you are very wrong if you think that he would not be in better shape for THIS season if he had been operated on sooner rather than later. "Spilled milk," yup, but there is still an odor from it, and Melo's up and down play and diminished physical ability is partly a result of this, no matter what some of you want to think.
I'm hoping, though, that his recovery will end soon, and we will see a quicker Anthony with a some better jumping ability.
SA played some tenacious D, and Anthony had to square off with one of the best defenders in the game, so I expected him to have some problems, but I'm worried because I saw more standing around, not enough open jumpers, and a Woodson era tendency to give the ball to Anthony at times when it should have been moved around.Said it during the game thread...Anthony was taking things personally and it showed in his play-and right now he is not the kind of player who can be successful doing this, especially against a team like the Spurs.
As the noted philosopher Dirty Harry once said- "A man's got to know his limitations."
The bolded is the thing I had imagined (didn't watch the game.) Few posters on the other forum said that he was bringing the ball up a few times and that resulted in him shooting it, no movement. That is really my biggest fear with him. If he can take shots in the flow, do an occasional ISO when we need a bucket, sure. But the Melo Show is just getting old for me.
We have a pretty solid team, so there is no reason for him to have horrendous shooting nights on 3 out of the first 4 games. He is 31 and needs to adjust, sooner rather than later.
Regarding Leaonard defending him, it just shows no intelligence to have almost no assists and shoot 25% when you know the defender is great. Drive and dish, modify your game.
Honestly, not to be a hater, but he needs to learn more from KP and others who understand this methodology of BBall, lol.
This is going to work itself out though. We have a solid team and if he is still shooting like this at the break, I think he might be on the way out.
We might be able to do a 3 or 4 team trade where we get a really good piece back and maybe a pick.
What I didn't like was that he was getting stuck on Duncan Screens. Unfortunately everyone on the knicks were getting stuck on Duncan screens. Despite that he still needs to fight harder to get around screens. He also lost Kawai in transition a few times which is bad. I did like his 3rd qtr D late and his D in the 4th. He was diving for loose balls and competing on D. What he has to do is get used to playing hard and shooting well. I'l give him to mid November to assess his play.
They even gave the Spurs two extra pts for non existent basket interference.
We need a star SG badly, I think a dynamic SG would pull this team together. I'm praying there's one to be had next off season.
This team was competitive all game against a loaded Spurs though, and I think Duncan had to play big minutes. I'm not upset with that.
GetThePipe wrote:The officials were killing him. That foul they called on him going for a loose ball was disgusting. He was definitely getting hacked in the game but the refs would not call it because it was Duncan and Kawhi guarding him. They played excellent defense but c'mon. Melo was getting triple teamed driving to the basket.We need a star SG badly, I'm praying there's one to be had next off season.
This team was competitive all game against a loaded Spurs though, and I think!Duncan had to play big minutes. I'm not upset with that.
Melo doesn't get calls, but he also forces bad shots and he has no lift to go against the double/triple down low and get his shot off.
We need Phil to go on record as saying Anthony is over rated. Maybe that will bring out the best in him every night.
yellowboy90 wrote:This is not as bad of game as people make it out to be. He played 35+ minutes and shot the ball 17 times, 2 more than Porzingis who played only 24+ minutes. He only shot the ball twice in the 4th, one on a good look for three after Porzingis passed up an wide open look and the other attempt was when he fell on the Unicorn, he was actually moving the ball when he came back in. For most of the time he in the 4th they barely ran the offense through him. He was not forcing the issue and the team did not force it into him. The problem was that the knicks had a bad stretch of mistakes, a Gallo ill advised pass was sandwich in between 2 TOs by the Unicorn.I agree. His hip seemed to be getting caught on Duncan on those screens. He is trying to fight through them and did dive on the floor for that loose ball when he had the ridiculous foul called on him. I thought overall there were a lot of positives in regards to the team and how they played in a loss. The Spurs didn't rest anyone tonight on the second night of a back to back and they played tenacious d and were allowed to be very physical. The Knicks are 2-2 and have played hard in every game. I wonder if the Knicks push Afflalo back if KP is out on Wednesday.What I didn't like was that he was getting stuck on Duncan Screens. Unfortunately everyone on the knicks were getting stuck on Duncan screens. Despite that he still needs to fight harder to get around screens. He also lost Kawai in transition a few times which is bad. I did like his 3rd qtr D late and his D in the 4th. He was diving for loose balls and competing on D. What he has to do is get used to playing hard and shooting well. I'l give him to mid November to assess his play.
WaltLongmire wrote:
SA played some tenacious D, and Anthony had to square off with one of the best defenders in the game, so I expected him to have some problems, but I'm worried because I saw more standing around, not enough open jumpers, and a Woodson era tendency to give the ball to Anthony at times when it should have been moved around.
I think that's pretty much the 2 factors right there as far as last night goes. I'm not worried about his knee--he's says he's fine and he looks fine. I think he's just struggling to find consistency -- he's had some really good games, going back to the beginning of preseason where he looked great, the Washington game, etc..Last night, Kawhi Leonard put the clamps on him and took him right out of that game. Nothing to do with the knee...And then yeah, I mentioned it on the game thread as well -- way too much stagnation in our halfcourt sets last night and by everyone, not just Melo. Remember the play where Lopez had the ball left side top right elbow where he was waiting for someone--ANYONE--to cut to the basket? He showed great patience on that play--Grant finally cut and Lopez hit him with a nice pass for 2. But WTF was with the standing around on that play? Where was the player movement? Quite a few plays like that last night. That and we had zero transition baskets. We let the Spurs dictate almost everything that happened last night. They took our star right out of the game and we had no real counterpunch (a secondary or third scorer step up, no player/ball movement, no transition game). Leonard's a GREAT player, there's no question about it but if I'm Melo, I'd be chomping at the bit to play him again and go right at him.