Knicks · Hinkie's Sixers: Bad Plan, Bad Execution, or both? (page 17)

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Wojo reporting that the sixers are looking at bringing Dantoni in as an associate head coach.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76...

D'Antoni doesn't like post play, its why Zach Randolph was moved after MDA got the job in NY. They've got Embiid, Okafor, and Noel. If Dantoni sticks around it could mean that Colangelo is going to make some big moves over the summer, or sooner. Was bound to happen, but this might expedite the process if D'Antoni was hired.

LOL, this makes sense. All a part of Hinkie's plan to get more top picks.

Its impressive how he keeps landing multi-million dollar gigs in spite of everything post Nash. Very good basketball theorist, his ideas have had an impact on the game, but has to prove (to me anyway) that he can succeed in the NBA as a coach without Nash.

What impact has he had on the league? Is anyone running that bullshiit SSOL offense?

Dude is a hack coach who piggy backed of the success of having Steve Nash on his team (much like JVG with P.Ewing). Thats why he has failed everywhere and NO ONE is banging down his door to re-hire him.

What we're seeing GS do (on offense) has its roots in D'Antoni's system. Where they diverge is defense just as important as offense to the Warriors. There is no clone of D'Antoni's system being implemented, but as much as Im not a fan of MDA as a coach, Im not going to suggest that he hasn't had an influence on the league.

Just listened to Nate Duncan's podcast from a few days ago and his opinion at the time was that Colangelo was hired more for appearance and possibly to help with minority owners. Hiring D'Antoni as associative head coach seems to differ from that in my opinion.

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Wojo reporting that the sixers are looking at bringing Dantoni in as an associate head coach.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76...

D'Antoni doesn't like post play, its why Zach Randolph was moved after MDA got the job in NY. They've got Embiid, Okafor, and Noel. If Dantoni sticks around it could mean that Colangelo is going to make some big moves over the summer, or sooner. Was bound to happen, but this might expedite the process if D'Antoni was hired.

LOL, this makes sense. All a part of Hinkie's plan to get more top picks.

Its impressive how he keeps landing multi-million dollar gigs in spite of everything post Nash. Very good basketball theorist, his ideas have had an impact on the game, but has to prove (to me anyway) that he can succeed in the NBA as a coach without Nash.

What impact has he had on the league? Is anyone running that bullshiit SSOL offense?

Dude is a hack coach who piggy backed of the success of having Steve Nash on his team (much like JVG with P.Ewing). Thats why he has failed everywhere and NO ONE is banging down his door to re-hire him.

What we're seeing GS do (on offense) has its roots in D'Antoni's system. Where they diverge is defense just as important as offense to the Warriors. There is no clone of D'Antoni's system being implemented, but as much as Im not a fan of MDA as a coach, Im not going to suggest that he hasn't had an influence on the league.

I would have to disagree with you on this. The fact that GS has players that can shoot 3 pointers very well, and do it often, does not mean that they are running the SSOL or any hybrid version of it....just my opinion

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Wojo reporting that the sixers are looking at bringing Dantoni in as an associate head coach.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76...

D'Antoni doesn't like post play, its why Zach Randolph was moved after MDA got the job in NY. They've got Embiid, Okafor, and Noel. If Dantoni sticks around it could mean that Colangelo is going to make some big moves over the summer, or sooner. Was bound to happen, but this might expedite the process if D'Antoni was hired.

LOL, this makes sense. All a part of Hinkie's plan to get more top picks.

Its impressive how he keeps landing multi-million dollar gigs in spite of everything post Nash. Very good basketball theorist, his ideas have had an impact on the game, but has to prove (to me anyway) that he can succeed in the NBA as a coach without Nash.

What impact has he had on the league? Is anyone running that bullshiit SSOL offense?

Dude is a hack coach who piggy backed of the success of having Steve Nash on his team (much like JVG with P.Ewing). Thats why he has failed everywhere and NO ONE is banging down his door to re-hire him.

What we're seeing GS do (on offense) has its roots in D'Antoni's system. Where they diverge is defense just as important as offense to the Warriors. There is no clone of D'Antoni's system being implemented, but as much as Im not a fan of MDA as a coach, Im not going to suggest that he hasn't had an influence on the league.

I would have to disagree with you on this. The fact that GS has players that can shoot 3 pointers very well, and do it often, does not mean that they are running the SSOL or any hybrid version of it....just my opinion

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/17/stev...

Steve Kerr credits Steve Nash, Mike D’Antoni for laying foundation that became Warriors title

It’s been noted more times than can be counted that Steve Kerr was a rookie NBA coach — the first rookie NBA coach to win an NBA title since Pat Riley did it with the Showtime Lakers.

But Kerr was not new to NBA management — he had been the general manager of the Phoenix Suns during the end of the Steve Nash/Mike D’Antoni years. Frankly, Kerr made mistakes that brought an end to that era, such as bringing in Shaquille O’Neal. Kerr the GM didn’t seem convinced that team and that style could win an NBA title.

However, when he got in the coaching seat in Golden State last summer, he thought this team could win a title playing a similar style. And after he won he said he could imagine an up-tempo, jump shooting team winning it all because of Steve Nash and Mike D’Antoni.

“I imagined it with Steve Nash. Steve was kind of the original Stephen Curry,” Kerr said from the podium as NBA champion, his shirt still drenched in Champagne. “Slightly different, but similar mindset in terms of — and similar skillset of passing and the ball handling. And the Suns were so close. Things didn’t go their way. But I imagined it. And I was there with Steve as general manager, and I thought it was going to happen for him. But he set the stage for Steph.”

“I think Steve kind of laid out a vision for a whole generation of young point guards. And with the game changing, Mike D’Antoni kind of initiating that style in Phoenix, the floor starting to spread, the whole league kind of playing shooting fours and fives and playing a little faster. I think Mike and Steve in many ways set the table for Steph Curry. And I think Steph would tell you that too. He has great respect for Steve.”

It takes a little bit of luck to win an NBA title — such as Amar’e Stoudemire staying on the bench at a pivotal moment and not getting suspended. Those kinds of breaks eluded the Suns.

But the other key difference between the Warriors and those Suns was defense. D’Antoni got thrashed for the Suns defense, but it was better than people remember — they gave up more points per game because of the pace, but they were a middle-of-the-pack team in terms of points allowed per possession. They were okay.

These Warriors were elite defensively — best in the NBA this season in defensive efficiency.

“Everyone wanted to talk about how many threes we took. We’re the number one defensive team in the league, and that’s what wins,” Kerr said. “You’ve got to be able to score points somehow, but you have to be good defensively. You have to be great defensively to win a title. For whatever reason, that seemed to be overlooked this year. But the combination of the offense and the defense, that matters, and I don’t think people pointed that out enough.”

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Wojo reporting that the sixers are looking at bringing Dantoni in as an associate head coach.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76...

D'Antoni doesn't like post play, its why Zach Randolph was moved after MDA got the job in NY. They've got Embiid, Okafor, and Noel. If Dantoni sticks around it could mean that Colangelo is going to make some big moves over the summer, or sooner. Was bound to happen, but this might expedite the process if D'Antoni was hired.

LOL, this makes sense. All a part of Hinkie's plan to get more top picks.

Its impressive how he keeps landing multi-million dollar gigs in spite of everything post Nash. Very good basketball theorist, his ideas have had an impact on the game, but has to prove (to me anyway) that he can succeed in the NBA as a coach without Nash.

What impact has he had on the league? Is anyone running that bullshiit SSOL offense?

Dude is a hack coach who piggy backed of the success of having Steve Nash on his team (much like JVG with P.Ewing). Thats why he has failed everywhere and NO ONE is banging down his door to re-hire him.

What we're seeing GS do (on offense) has its roots in D'Antoni's system. Where they diverge is defense just as important as offense to the Warriors. There is no clone of D'Antoni's system being implemented, but as much as Im not a fan of MDA as a coach, Im not going to suggest that he hasn't had an influence on the league.

I would have to disagree with you on this. The fact that GS has players that can shoot 3 pointers very well, and do it often, does not mean that they are running the SSOL or any hybrid version of it....just my opinion

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/17/stev...

Steve Kerr credits Steve Nash, Mike D’Antoni for laying foundation that became Warriors title

It’s been noted more times than can be counted that Steve Kerr was a rookie NBA coach — the first rookie NBA coach to win an NBA title since Pat Riley did it with the Showtime Lakers.

But Kerr was not new to NBA management — he had been the general manager of the Phoenix Suns during the end of the Steve Nash/Mike D’Antoni years. Frankly, Kerr made mistakes that brought an end to that era, such as bringing in Shaquille O’Neal. Kerr the GM didn’t seem convinced that team and that style could win an NBA title.

However, when he got in the coaching seat in Golden State last summer, he thought this team could win a title playing a similar style. And after he won he said he could imagine an up-tempo, jump shooting team winning it all because of Steve Nash and Mike D’Antoni.

“I imagined it with Steve Nash. Steve was kind of the original Stephen Curry,” Kerr said from the podium as NBA champion, his shirt still drenched in Champagne. “Slightly different, but similar mindset in terms of — and similar skillset of passing and the ball handling. And the Suns were so close. Things didn’t go their way. But I imagined it. And I was there with Steve as general manager, and I thought it was going to happen for him. But he set the stage for Steph.”

“I think Steve kind of laid out a vision for a whole generation of young point guards. And with the game changing, Mike D’Antoni kind of initiating that style in Phoenix, the floor starting to spread, the whole league kind of playing shooting fours and fives and playing a little faster. I think Mike and Steve in many ways set the table for Steph Curry. And I think Steph would tell you that too. He has great respect for Steve.”

It takes a little bit of luck to win an NBA title — such as Amar’e Stoudemire staying on the bench at a pivotal moment and not getting suspended. Those kinds of breaks eluded the Suns.

But the other key difference between the Warriors and those Suns was defense. D’Antoni got thrashed for the Suns defense, but it was better than people remember — they gave up more points per game because of the pace, but they were a middle-of-the-pack team in terms of points allowed per possession. They were okay.

These Warriors were elite defensively — best in the NBA this season in defensive efficiency.

“Everyone wanted to talk about how many threes we took. We’re the number one defensive team in the league, and that’s what wins,” Kerr said. “You’ve got to be able to score points somehow, but you have to be good defensively. You have to be great defensively to win a title. For whatever reason, that seemed to be overlooked this year. But the combination of the offense and the defense, that matters, and I don’t think people pointed that out enough.”

Didn't Kerr want D'Antoni to hire a defensive specialist and pushed for Thibs? Kerr liked d'antoni but really wanted his teams to play hard/smart on both ends of the floor. Kerr's wanting D'Antoni to focus more on defense led to his leaving if I remember correctly.
Kerr is a bright guy. He knows how important defense is but also recognizes the strengths of his roster. D'Antoni's system worked with Nash and the roster in Phoenix but his desire to make that work in other places despite the roster not fitting his system and his lack of emphasis on the defensive end of the court was his downfall. I don't think lightning strikes twice for Mike d. Either he evolves or he doesn't experience success.

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Wojo reporting that the sixers are looking at bringing Dantoni in as an associate head coach.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76...

D'Antoni doesn't like post play, its why Zach Randolph was moved after MDA got the job in NY. They've got Embiid, Okafor, and Noel. If Dantoni sticks around it could mean that Colangelo is going to make some big moves over the summer, or sooner. Was bound to happen, but this might expedite the process if D'Antoni was hired.

LOL, this makes sense. All a part of Hinkie's plan to get more top picks.

Its impressive how he keeps landing multi-million dollar gigs in spite of everything post Nash. Very good basketball theorist, his ideas have had an impact on the game, but has to prove (to me anyway) that he can succeed in the NBA as a coach without Nash.

What impact has he had on the league? Is anyone running that bullshiit SSOL offense?

Dude is a hack coach who piggy backed of the success of having Steve Nash on his team (much like JVG with P.Ewing). Thats why he has failed everywhere and NO ONE is banging down his door to re-hire him.

What we're seeing GS do (on offense) has its roots in D'Antoni's system. Where they diverge is defense just as important as offense to the Warriors. There is no clone of D'Antoni's system being implemented, but as much as Im not a fan of MDA as a coach, Im not going to suggest that he hasn't had an influence on the league.

I would have to disagree with you on this. The fact that GS has players that can shoot 3 pointers very well, and do it often, does not mean that they are running the SSOL or any hybrid version of it....just my opinion

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/17/stev...

Steve Kerr credits Steve Nash, Mike D’Antoni for laying foundation that became Warriors title

It’s been noted more times than can be counted that Steve Kerr was a rookie NBA coach — the first rookie NBA coach to win an NBA title since Pat Riley did it with the Showtime Lakers.

But Kerr was not new to NBA management — he had been the general manager of the Phoenix Suns during the end of the Steve Nash/Mike D’Antoni years. Frankly, Kerr made mistakes that brought an end to that era, such as bringing in Shaquille O’Neal. Kerr the GM didn’t seem convinced that team and that style could win an NBA title.

However, when he got in the coaching seat in Golden State last summer, he thought this team could win a title playing a similar style. And after he won he said he could imagine an up-tempo, jump shooting team winning it all because of Steve Nash and Mike D’Antoni.

“I imagined it with Steve Nash. Steve was kind of the original Stephen Curry,” Kerr said from the podium as NBA champion, his shirt still drenched in Champagne. “Slightly different, but similar mindset in terms of — and similar skillset of passing and the ball handling. And the Suns were so close. Things didn’t go their way. But I imagined it. And I was there with Steve as general manager, and I thought it was going to happen for him. But he set the stage for Steph.”

“I think Steve kind of laid out a vision for a whole generation of young point guards. And with the game changing, Mike D’Antoni kind of initiating that style in Phoenix, the floor starting to spread, the whole league kind of playing shooting fours and fives and playing a little faster. I think Mike and Steve in many ways set the table for Steph Curry. And I think Steph would tell you that too. He has great respect for Steve.”

It takes a little bit of luck to win an NBA title — such as Amar’e Stoudemire staying on the bench at a pivotal moment and not getting suspended. Those kinds of breaks eluded the Suns.

But the other key difference between the Warriors and those Suns was defense. D’Antoni got thrashed for the Suns defense, but it was better than people remember — they gave up more points per game because of the pace, but they were a middle-of-the-pack team in terms of points allowed per possession. They were okay.

These Warriors were elite defensively — best in the NBA this season in defensive efficiency.

“Everyone wanted to talk about how many threes we took. We’re the number one defensive team in the league, and that’s what wins,” Kerr said. “You’ve got to be able to score points somehow, but you have to be good defensively. You have to be great defensively to win a title. For whatever reason, that seemed to be overlooked this year. But the combination of the offense and the defense, that matters, and I don’t think people pointed that out enough.”

Didn't Kerr want D'Antoni to hire a defensive specialist and pushed for Thibs? Kerr liked d'antoni but really wanted his teams to play hard/smart on both ends of the floor. Kerr's wanting D'Antoni to focus more on defense led to his leaving if I remember correctly.
Kerr is a bright guy. He knows how important defense is but also recognizes the strengths of his roster. D'Antoni's system worked with Nash and the roster in Phoenix but his desire to make that work in other places despite the roster not fitting his system and his lack of emphasis on the defensive end of the court was his downfall. I don't think lightning strikes twice for Mike d. Either he evolves or he doesn't experience success.

You also need to find the kind of 2-wayplayers who can play the offensive game you want...but also play the tough D you need if you want to be a very good team. Not always easy.

That's what makes GS such a special team.

Not easy, by the way, to find players who can play the combination of offense and defense you see with GS. Lots of motion on the offensive end and a lot of movement and helping on D. That team is in ridiculously good condition.

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

I wonder if history will look back on a 17-page Hinkie thread being more ridiculous than a 20-page Wroten thread.

Knixkik wrote:I feel like we should revisit this topic every once in awhile just for general conversation. A lot of what we talk about on this forum is based on how to build a team the right way, the Knicks in general of course. I have always been adamant that i don't like Hinkie's plan to rebuild the Sixers one bit. I think it's too extreme, but mainly i think he has conveniently sold the Sixers organization on job security for himself. Most GM's have 3 years or so to really show progress in the standings, Hinkie has convinced ownership to give him 5 years of salary where he doesn't have to show any sustainable growth in the standings. And here we are year 3 of his "plan", and the team is actually getting worst, if that's even possible.

In 3 years, in fact, with all of those draft picks and flexibility, he has maybe 2 players who are currently playing and look like they could be long-term starters and foundation players. So not only he is not improving a team 3 years into a plan, but the core of players isn't even in place yet. Sixer's ownership could have hired any of us to go into that job and collected and recycled assets without any roster construction or moves that actually require players playing and showing competitive basketball. His plan has been inconsistent as well. I really felt like he would pass over Okafor for Porzingis. Porzingis was labeled as an unknown with great upside, but 3+ years away from contributing. That seems to fit Hinkie's vision. Okafor was expected to be too good too soon for a team like the Sixers not ready to win games yet. In addition, Porzingis was a better fit with their personnel, Embiid and Noels. Hinkie also traded MCW, rookie of the year, for a future unprotected draft pick because he admitted that those don't come around that often, so he had to have it. No real thought process. He seems like when he was a kid he had to have the shiny new toy before everyone else, regardless of what it cost him or if it was even something he was into.

Looking at other teams around the league who have adding young talent/assets around the league; Boston has managed to not only build a gradually improving team from the bottom to a playoff team, but they have also collected as good or better assets than the Sixers. They own control over the Nets picks the next 3 years, either outright or right to swap. So they are a playoff team with a top 5 pick likely the next 3 years. That doesn't count the other picks. Ainge has done it again. Hinkie should take notes, just in case he gets another job in the league when this is all done for him. Minn has a great young team, although they got lucky with 2 #1 picks, that should be taken into account. Even the Knicks, who try to be good every year, and fell hard enough into the fourth pick, managed to draft a player that has more upside than anyone the Sixers have drafted in the past 3 years. That's sad.

To be fair, Hinkie has not had the ping pong balls fall in his favor, nor has he missed out on any stars drafted behind his picks, but that is on him as well, because that is the chance he signed up for when he committed to this process, so he needs to own the fact that the draft has yet to carry the talent level capable of turning his team around where he has selected the past 3 years. And here he is 3 years down, 2 players on the team who might be there for the long-haul, or maybe not. Maybe Okafor and Noels get traded for future draft picks. How long does this last? How long does the Sixers ownership and fan base put up with that? Is 5 years or more of really terrible basketball worth what seems to be the same chance at success as every other team? Do you see any light at the end of the tunnel for them while Hinkie is still employed?

This is a great initial post and thread idea, btw

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I feel like we should revisit this topic every once in awhile just for general conversation. A lot of what we talk about on this forum is based on how to build a team the right way, the Knicks in general of course. I have always been adamant that i don't like Hinkie's plan to rebuild the Sixers one bit. I think it's too extreme, but mainly i think he has conveniently sold the Sixers organization on job security for himself. Most GM's have 3 years or so to really show progress in the standings, Hinkie has convinced ownership to give him 5 years of salary where he doesn't have to show any sustainable growth in the standings. And here we are year 3 of his "plan", and the team is actually getting worst, if that's even possible.

In 3 years, in fact, with all of those draft picks and flexibility, he has maybe 2 players who are currently playing and look like they could be long-term starters and foundation players. So not only he is not improving a team 3 years into a plan, but the core of players isn't even in place yet. Sixer's ownership could have hired any of us to go into that job and collected and recycled assets without any roster construction or moves that actually require players playing and showing competitive basketball. His plan has been inconsistent as well. I really felt like he would pass over Okafor for Porzingis. Porzingis was labeled as an unknown with great upside, but 3+ years away from contributing. That seems to fit Hinkie's vision. Okafor was expected to be too good too soon for a team like the Sixers not ready to win games yet. In addition, Porzingis was a better fit with their personnel, Embiid and Noels. Hinkie also traded MCW, rookie of the year, for a future unprotected draft pick because he admitted that those don't come around that often, so he had to have it. No real thought process. He seems like when he was a kid he had to have the shiny new toy before everyone else, regardless of what it cost him or if it was even something he was into.

Looking at other teams around the league who have adding young talent/assets around the league; Boston has managed to not only build a gradually improving team from the bottom to a playoff team, but they have also collected as good or better assets than the Sixers. They own control over the Nets picks the next 3 years, either outright or right to swap. So they are a playoff team with a top 5 pick likely the next 3 years. That doesn't count the other picks. Ainge has done it again. Hinkie should take notes, just in case he gets another job in the league when this is all done for him. Minn has a great young team, although they got lucky with 2 #1 picks, that should be taken into account. Even the Knicks, who try to be good every year, and fell hard enough into the fourth pick, managed to draft a player that has more upside than anyone the Sixers have drafted in the past 3 years. That's sad.

To be fair, Hinkie has not had the ping pong balls fall in his favor, nor has he missed out on any stars drafted behind his picks, but that is on him as well, because that is the chance he signed up for when he committed to this process, so he needs to own the fact that the draft has yet to carry the talent level capable of turning his team around where he has selected the past 3 years. And here he is 3 years down, 2 players on the team who might be there for the long-haul, or maybe not. Maybe Okafor and Noels get traded for future draft picks. How long does this last? How long does the Sixers ownership and fan base put up with that? Is 5 years or more of really terrible basketball worth what seems to be the same chance at success as every other team? Do you see any light at the end of the tunnel for them while Hinkie is still employed?

This is a great initial post and thread idea, btw

I agree. The one I quoted was the second I believe.

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Wojo reporting that the sixers are looking at bringing Dantoni in as an associate head coach.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76...

D'Antoni doesn't like post play, its why Zach Randolph was moved after MDA got the job in NY. They've got Embiid, Okafor, and Noel. If Dantoni sticks around it could mean that Colangelo is going to make some big moves over the summer, or sooner. Was bound to happen, but this might expedite the process if D'Antoni was hired.

LOL, this makes sense. All a part of Hinkie's plan to get more top picks.

Its impressive how he keeps landing multi-million dollar gigs in spite of everything post Nash. Very good basketball theorist, his ideas have had an impact on the game, but has to prove (to me anyway) that he can succeed in the NBA as a coach without Nash.

What impact has he had on the league? Is anyone running that bullshiit SSOL offense?

Dude is a hack coach who piggy backed of the success of having Steve Nash on his team (much like JVG with P.Ewing). Thats why he has failed everywhere and NO ONE is banging down his door to re-hire him.

What we're seeing GS do (on offense) has its roots in D'Antoni's system. Where they diverge is defense just as important as offense to the Warriors. There is no clone of D'Antoni's system being implemented, but as much as Im not a fan of MDA as a coach, Im not going to suggest that he hasn't had an influence on the league.

I would have to disagree with you on this. The fact that GS has players that can shoot 3 pointers very well, and do it often, does not mean that they are running the SSOL or any hybrid version of it....just my opinion

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/17/stev...

Steve Kerr credits Steve Nash, Mike D’Antoni for laying foundation that became Warriors title

It’s been noted more times than can be counted that Steve Kerr was a rookie NBA coach — the first rookie NBA coach to win an NBA title since Pat Riley did it with the Showtime Lakers.

But Kerr was not new to NBA management — he had been the general manager of the Phoenix Suns during the end of the Steve Nash/Mike D’Antoni years. Frankly, Kerr made mistakes that brought an end to that era, such as bringing in Shaquille O’Neal. Kerr the GM didn’t seem convinced that team and that style could win an NBA title.

However, when he got in the coaching seat in Golden State last summer, he thought this team could win a title playing a similar style. And after he won he said he could imagine an up-tempo, jump shooting team winning it all because of Steve Nash and Mike D’Antoni.

“I imagined it with Steve Nash. Steve was kind of the original Stephen Curry,” Kerr said from the podium as NBA champion, his shirt still drenched in Champagne. “Slightly different, but similar mindset in terms of — and similar skillset of passing and the ball handling. And the Suns were so close. Things didn’t go their way. But I imagined it. And I was there with Steve as general manager, and I thought it was going to happen for him. But he set the stage for Steph.”

“I think Steve kind of laid out a vision for a whole generation of young point guards. And with the game changing, Mike D’Antoni kind of initiating that style in Phoenix, the floor starting to spread, the whole league kind of playing shooting fours and fives and playing a little faster. I think Mike and Steve in many ways set the table for Steph Curry. And I think Steph would tell you that too. He has great respect for Steve.”

It takes a little bit of luck to win an NBA title — such as Amar’e Stoudemire staying on the bench at a pivotal moment and not getting suspended. Those kinds of breaks eluded the Suns.

But the other key difference between the Warriors and those Suns was defense. D’Antoni got thrashed for the Suns defense, but it was better than people remember — they gave up more points per game because of the pace, but they were a middle-of-the-pack team in terms of points allowed per possession. They were okay.

These Warriors were elite defensively — best in the NBA this season in defensive efficiency.

“Everyone wanted to talk about how many threes we took. We’re the number one defensive team in the league, and that’s what wins,” Kerr said. “You’ve got to be able to score points somehow, but you have to be good defensively. You have to be great defensively to win a title. For whatever reason, that seemed to be overlooked this year. But the combination of the offense and the defense, that matters, and I don’t think people pointed that out enough.”

Didn't Kerr want D'Antoni to hire a defensive specialist and pushed for Thibs? Kerr liked d'antoni but really wanted his teams to play hard/smart on both ends of the floor. Kerr's wanting D'Antoni to focus more on defense led to his leaving if I remember correctly.
Kerr is a bright guy. He knows how important defense is but also recognizes the strengths of his roster. D'Antoni's system worked with Nash and the roster in Phoenix but his desire to make that work in other places despite the roster not fitting his system and his lack of emphasis on the defensive end of the court was his downfall. I don't think lightning strikes twice for Mike d. Either he evolves or he doesn't experience success.

Knicks D under MDA with Woody was very good. At that point it was the lack of PG's that was the biggest issue. Not to mention that at the time MELO wasn't buying in anymore. If MELO had come into the season playing well after the offseason surgery and they had given MDA A PG to start the year. He might have worked in NY. The Linsanity thing was not sustainable but it kind of showed a glimpse into what could've been with a better PG to start the season. Still the defense was very good that year.

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

What good things did Hinkie do?

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

What good things did Hinkie do?

He managed to use every corner of wikipedia for his goodbye speech.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

What good things did Hinkie do?

Help educate people on how not to use metrics?

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

What good things did Hinkie do?

Attempt to Draft the first all 7 foot center squad? Starting at point guard...Nerlens Noel! At shooting guard, Dario Saric! At small forward, Jahlil Okafor! At power forward, Joel Embiid!

I'm guessing whoever's drafting for the Sixers will finally get their franchise Center in the draft this year.

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I feel like we should revisit this topic every once in awhile just for general conversation. A lot of what we talk about on this forum is based on how to build a team the right way, the Knicks in general of course. I have always been adamant that i don't like Hinkie's plan to rebuild the Sixers one bit. I think it's too extreme, but mainly i think he has conveniently sold the Sixers organization on job security for himself. Most GM's have 3 years or so to really show progress in the standings, Hinkie has convinced ownership to give him 5 years of salary where he doesn't have to show any sustainable growth in the standings. And here we are year 3 of his "plan", and the team is actually getting worst, if that's even possible.

In 3 years, in fact, with all of those draft picks and flexibility, he has maybe 2 players who are currently playing and look like they could be long-term starters and foundation players. So not only he is not improving a team 3 years into a plan, but the core of players isn't even in place yet. Sixer's ownership could have hired any of us to go into that job and collected and recycled assets without any roster construction or moves that actually require players playing and showing competitive basketball. His plan has been inconsistent as well. I really felt like he would pass over Okafor for Porzingis. Porzingis was labeled as an unknown with great upside, but 3+ years away from contributing. That seems to fit Hinkie's vision. Okafor was expected to be too good too soon for a team like the Sixers not ready to win games yet. In addition, Porzingis was a better fit with their personnel, Embiid and Noels. Hinkie also traded MCW, rookie of the year, for a future unprotected draft pick because he admitted that those don't come around that often, so he had to have it. No real thought process. He seems like when he was a kid he had to have the shiny new toy before everyone else, regardless of what it cost him or if it was even something he was into.

Looking at other teams around the league who have adding young talent/assets around the league; Boston has managed to not only build a gradually improving team from the bottom to a playoff team, but they have also collected as good or better assets than the Sixers. They own control over the Nets picks the next 3 years, either outright or right to swap. So they are a playoff team with a top 5 pick likely the next 3 years. That doesn't count the other picks. Ainge has done it again. Hinkie should take notes, just in case he gets another job in the league when this is all done for him. Minn has a great young team, although they got lucky with 2 #1 picks, that should be taken into account. Even the Knicks, who try to be good every year, and fell hard enough into the fourth pick, managed to draft a player that has more upside than anyone the Sixers have drafted in the past 3 years. That's sad.

To be fair, Hinkie has not had the ping pong balls fall in his favor, nor has he missed out on any stars drafted behind his picks, but that is on him as well, because that is the chance he signed up for when he committed to this process, so he needs to own the fact that the draft has yet to carry the talent level capable of turning his team around where he has selected the past 3 years. And here he is 3 years down, 2 players on the team who might be there for the long-haul, or maybe not. Maybe Okafor and Noels get traded for future draft picks. How long does this last? How long does the Sixers ownership and fan base put up with that? Is 5 years or more of really terrible basketball worth what seems to be the same chance at success as every other team? Do you see any light at the end of the tunnel for them while Hinkie is still employed?

This is a great initial post and thread idea, btw

Thanks for finding this thread. Hinkie leaving was a long time coming. I was actually surprised he resigned on his own though, i thought he would have to be fired. He was essentially pushed out, but i didn't think he would leave on his own. He fleeced the Sixers ownership and fanbase in the sense that he bought himself job security by selling them on being bad without a true plan or timeline in place, so i thought because of that he would have to be fired. He will never get another GM job in the NBA again, that's for sure. He will always be a behind the scenes analytics guy.

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

What good things did Hinkie do?

Attempt to Draft the first all 7 foot center squad? Starting at point guard...Nerlens Noel! At shooting guard, Dario Saric! At small forward, Jahlil Okafor! At power forward, Joel Embiid!

I'm guessing whoever's drafting for the Sixers will finally get their franchise Center in the draft this year.

mreinman, anything?

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

He left them with options, but none of the players he drafted over the last few years have value relative to their respective draft position, so when you really think about it, literally anyone could have done what he did with similar or better results.

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark
javascript:add_forum_code('bold');

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

He left them with options, but none of the players he drafted over the last few years have value relative to their respective draft position, so when you really think about it, literally anyone could have done what he did with similar or better results.

Yup...he has yet to really it a home run with one of his high draft picks

As it stands now, they might have 4 (5?) #1's in the 2016 draft, which by all accounts is a weak draft, but if they can get an Ingram as well as Heid or Murry, they still might come out well in this draft.

Saric, who by all accounts I've read is a fine player, has still not come over...wonder what he thinks of the Sixers as he watches them from overseas.

Noel has not developed as some thought he would...

OK4 has his own issues, but has a lot of potential, although he and Noel might not be able to coexist in the same offense...

Embiid has never been on the court, and if he does make it back all the way (and if remains healthy- a very big "if"),he and OK4 will not be able to play in the same lineup, and both he and OK4 have "trade baggage" which will mean the Sixers might not get full value back for them. It would take at least a year of good health for me to accept Embiid in a trade if I was another GM.

Team has a lot of options, but there are many problems that could still pop up.

WaltLongmire wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark
javascript:add_forum_code('bold');

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

He left them with options, but none of the players he drafted over the last few years have value relative to their respective draft position, so when you really think about it, literally anyone could have done what he did with similar or better results.

Yup...he has yet to really it a home run with one of his high draft picks

As it stands now, they might have 4 (5?) #1's in the 2016 draft, which by all accounts is a weak draft, but if they can get an Ingram as well as Heid or Murry, they still might come out well in this draft.

Saric, who by all accounts I've read is a fine player, has still not come over...wonder what he thinks of the Sixers as he watches them from overseas.

Noel has not developed as some thought he would...

OK4 has his own issues, but has a lot of potential, although he and Noel might not be able to coexist in the same offense...

Embiid has never been on the court, and if he does make it back all the way (and if remains healthy- a very big "if"),he and OK4 will not be able to play in the same lineup, and both he and OK4 have "trade baggage" which will mean the Sixers might not get full value back for them. It would take at least a year of good health for me to accept Embiid in a trade if I was another GM.

Team has a lot of options, but there are many problems that could still pop up.

I'm not sure at this point if we can say Ok4 has a lot of potential. He should be a very good NBA scorer, but will struggle in other areas too much to be elite. He is a star on the right team, but would need a Ibaka, Porzingis, Draymond type player next to him at the 4 in order for it to work. Similar to Melo, you need the right players next to him in order to build around him. But unlike Melo, i don't think you can just plug him in. His lack of versatility really limits him, especially in today's NBA.

Even though Hinkie did not have success drafting, he passed up guys like KP, Giannis, and LaVine. Now i get that hindsight is 20-20, but these are players that management should have identified as high-risk, but high-potential, which is what Hinkie priding himself on, and where he fell short.