Knicks · Time for an 11 men rotation (page 3)

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

BINGO

Knicks1969 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

BINGO

Dango! Bango! Shango!

I hate fishers ties. Wish he wore brioni's. Kerr wears brioni's.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

knicks1248, who do you sit last night so that you can play KOQ more minutes? KP or Seraphin or Lance or DWill? Which one?

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

knicks1248, who do you sit last night so that you can play KOQ more minutes? KP or Seraphin or Lance or DWill? Which one?

I wouldn't have played him at all, what the hell is going to do in 4 minutes, what is Early going to do in 6 minutes, those are token minutes you giving a guy just to say he played in the game. Dwill could have used the extra 6 minutes, and Grant could have used the extra 4 minutes, they both had good rhythm last night.

You know what was the most alarming stat i heard last night..DWILL IS 10TH IN MINUTES PLAYED AND 2ND IN FTA, Does the damn coaching staff even bother to look at a stat sheet once while..JESUS!!!!

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

knicks1248, who do you sit last night so that you can play KOQ more minutes? KP or Seraphin or Lance or DWill? Which one?

I wouldn't have played him at all, what the hell is going to do in 4 minutes, what is Early going to do in 6 minutes, those are token minutes you giving a guy just to say he played in the game. Dwill could have used the extra 6 minutes, and Grant could have used the extra 4 minutes, they both had good rhythm last night.

You know what was the most alarming stat i heard last night..DWILL IS 10TH IN MINUTES PLAYED AND 2ND IN FTA, Does the damn coaching staff even bother to look at a stat sheet once while..JESUS!!!!

do you look at all the stats that they have?

how about his plus / minus?

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

knicks1248, who do you sit last night so that you can play KOQ more minutes? KP or Seraphin or Lance or DWill? Which one?

I wouldn't have played him at all, what the hell is going to do in 4 minutes, what is Early going to do in 6 minutes, those are token minutes you giving a guy just to say he played in the game. Dwill could have used the extra 6 minutes, and Grant could have used the extra 4 minutes, they both had good rhythm last night.

You know what was the most alarming stat i heard last night..DWILL IS 10TH IN MINUTES PLAYED AND 2ND IN FTA, Does the damn coaching staff even bother to look at a stat sheet once while..JESUS!!!!

Thanks for the cherry-picking

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

knicks1248, who do you sit last night so that you can play KOQ more minutes? KP or Seraphin or Lance or DWill? Which one?

I wouldn't have played him at all, what the hell is going to do in 4 minutes, what is Early going to do in 6 minutes, those are token minutes you giving a guy just to say he played in the game. Dwill could have used the extra 6 minutes, and Grant could have used the extra 4 minutes, they both had good rhythm last night.

You know what was the most alarming stat i heard last night..DWILL IS 10TH IN MINUTES PLAYED AND 2ND IN FTA, Does the damn coaching staff even bother to look at a stat sheet once while..JESUS!!!!

do you look at all the stats that they have?

how about his plus / minus?

I really don't give a rats ass about plus/minus, that doesn't hold much weight. Harden shot 32%, and affalo lit his ass up for a season high 31 points, yet he was a +10, why, because he went to the FT line, and made some nice players for other that "in some case" didn't make in the box scores. (should i mention that Lance was -13 last night and dwill was +2)

There are other ways you can impact a game without shooting lights out or defending like bruce bowen, which is FT shooting, Fast break, and 3's, thats the way teams crak our ass on most nights, and thats what DWILL and grant bring to the table that the coaching staff completely ignores

knicks1248 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is a startling stat that you all need to chew on

Caldron: 37 minutes of play; scored only 7 points (2 for 7); 7 boards and 4 assists

The young Grant: 11 minutes of play, 7 points (3for 3) and had 2 boards to go along

Now, I want the Fisher lovers to please provide me a viable explanation for those numbers.

A good coach would know that the young Grant needs to play a good 15 minutes each game to really learn the speed of the game. As I have often said, Calderon at this juncture of his career Is worthless if he is not shooting the ball at least 15 times. He only scored 7 points, but he gave away a total amount of 32 points to the opposing PGs last night. Out of those 37 minutes, his assignment was to guard Beverly, Terry, and Thorthon

KOQ played 20 minutes our previous game and 4 minutes last night, the rotation is comedy central every night..7 losses this season primarily because of bad bad rotations

knicks1248, who do you sit last night so that you can play KOQ more minutes? KP or Seraphin or Lance or DWill? Which one?

I wouldn't have played him at all, what the hell is going to do in 4 minutes, what is Early going to do in 6 minutes, those are token minutes you giving a guy just to say he played in the game. Dwill could have used the extra 6 minutes, and Grant could have used the extra 4 minutes, they both had good rhythm last night.

You know what was the most alarming stat i heard last night..DWILL IS 10TH IN MINUTES PLAYED AND 2ND IN FTA, Does the damn coaching staff even bother to look at a stat sheet once while..JESUS!!!!

do you look at all the stats that they have?

how about his plus / minus?

I really don't give a rats ass about plus/minus, that doesn't hold much weight. Harden shot 32%, and affalo lit his ass up for a season high 31 points, yet he was a +10, why, because he went to the FT line, and made some nice players for other that "in some case" didn't make in the box scores. (should i mention that Lance was -13 last night and dwill was +2)

There are other ways you can impact a game without shooting lights out or defending like bruce bowen, which is FT shooting, Fast break, and 3's, thats the way teams crak our ass on most nights, and thats what DWILL and grant bring to the table that the coaching staff completely ignores

I don't give a rats ass about plus/minus either nor do I care about Hardens meaningless FG. You missed the point.

Knicks1969 wrote:Why would you be so quick to get rid of a dude like Williams while we all know for certain that he has yet to play consistent minutes? Do you all realize how important it is for a basketball player to know where his minutes are going to come from?

probably why anthony randolph failed so miserably. (Bastard) Coaches wouldnt give him consistent minutes.

Knicks1969 wrote:Do you all realize how important it is for a basketball player to know where his minutes are going to come from?

I'm pretty sure that this is NOT considered to be a top priority by Jackson-Triangle coaches. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it's considered a state of mind that players need to overcome.

I think we're all under-estimating how different the Jackson-Triangle culture is from the conventional approach to basketball . . . from top to bottom.

Most Knick fans would probably be appalled if they knew what Phil Jackson's top priority really is with the Knicks.

Hint: It's not about winning basketball games . . .

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Why would you be so quick to get rid of a dude like Williams while we all know for certain that he has yet to play consistent minutes? Do you all realize how important it is for a basketball player to know where his minutes are going to come from?

probably why anthony randolph failed so miserably. (Bastard) Coaches wouldnt give him consistent minutes.

Malcolm wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Do you all realize how important it is for a basketball player to know where his minutes are going to come from?

I'm pretty sure that this is NOT considered to be a top priority by Jackson-Triangle coaches. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it's considered a state of mind that players need to overcome.

I think we're all under-estimating how different the Jackson-Triangle culture is from the conventional approach to basketball . . . from top to bottom.

Most Knick fans would probably be appalled if they knew what Phil Jackson's top priority really is with the Knicks. Hint: It's not about winning basketball games . . .

Phil's top priority is not about Winning basketball games? Oh my! How come he is one of the most decorated coaches ever? Didn't he have to win to earn the 11 rings?

Knicks1969 wrote:Phil's top priority is not about Winning basketball games? Oh my! How come he is one of the most decorated coaches ever? Didn't he have to win to earn the 11 rings?

It's all there in his two books.

I've never been a Knicks fan before this season. I'm probably not primarily one now. I'm primarily a Jackson-Triangle fan.

It's an entirely different perspective on what's happening . . .

Malcolm wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Phil's top priority is not about Winning basketball games? Oh my! How come he is one of the most decorated coaches ever? Didn't he have to win to earn the 11 rings?

Winning is nice -- no doubt about it. But trying to win only provides an external framework for what Jackson is really all about.

It's all there in his two books.

I've never been a Knicks fan before this season. I'm probably not primarily one now. I'm primarily a Jackson-Triangle fan.

It's an entirely different perspective on what's happening . . .

are you a triangle guru? I am not but as I've stated in a number of threads, I really don't like our shot selection.

mreinman wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Phil's top priority is not about Winning basketball games? Oh my! How come he is one of the most decorated coaches ever? Didn't he have to win to earn the 11 rings?

Winning is nice -- no doubt about it. But trying to win only provides an external framework for what Jackson is really all about.

It's all there in his two books.

I've never been a Knicks fan before this season. I'm probably not primarily one now. I'm primarily a Jackson-Triangle fan.

It's an entirely different perspective on what's happening . . .

are you a triangle guru? I am not but as I've stated in a number of threads, I really don't like our shot selection.

and that's OK for now, team is young and still learning.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Phil's top priority is not about Winning basketball games? Oh my! How come he is one of the most decorated coaches ever? Didn't he have to win to earn the 11 rings?

Winning is nice -- no doubt about it. But trying to win only provides an external framework for what Jackson is really all about.

It's all there in his two books.

I've never been a Knicks fan before this season. I'm probably not primarily one now. I'm primarily a Jackson-Triangle fan.

It's an entirely different perspective on what's happening . . .

are you a triangle guru? I am not but as I've stated in a number of threads, I really don't like our shot selection.

and that's OK for now, team is young and still learning.

so you think that will go away and their shot selection is mainly due to them learning the triangle?

I hope that you are right but I have a feeling that this is not the case.

mreinman wrote:are you a triangle guru? I am not but as I've stated in a number of threads, I really don't like our shot selection.

My understanding is that, first, there's a Tex Winter, X's-and-O's, Triangle. Then you add the Phil Jackson psychological/Zen stuff to it . . . and you have what I call the Jackson-Triangle.

I don't know a lot about the Tex Winter Triangle -- just basic principles.

But I do know more-than-average about the psychological/Zen stuff that Jackson adds to it.

So what affects shot selection (?) It depends on what you're trying to accomplish over what period of time. I mean, you can understand that even in conventional basketball terms. For example, having your best player take shots only makes sense if the opposing defense is under some uncertainty about whether he will. Right (?) Otherwise, they would put all 5 defenders on him. So you have to have run a certain number of plays for other players (even if they're not your best player) to keep the defense honest. This is pretty simple and basic -- and it's a psychological consideration.

So what I'm saying is that in the Jackson-Triangle there are 10 times as many such considerations. And it takes a long time to sort them out.

Are the Knicks just plain messing up sometimes -- both playing and coaching (?) Yeah, sure.

But they're also trying to develope a whole variety of personal and inter-personal instinctual skills . . . and some of the messing up (including shot selection) is a inevitable and necessary process to that end.

Watching this Knicks team isn't easy because we don't know what it is they're trying to do at this stage. They DEFINITELY don't having winning as the #1 priority at this time. That's still a long time away . . .

Malcolm wrote:

mreinman wrote:are you a triangle guru? I am not but as I've stated in a number of threads, I really don't like our shot selection.

My understanding is that, first, there's a Tex Winter, X's-and-O's, Triangle. Then you add the Phil Jackson psychological/Zen stuff to it . . . and you have what I call the Jackson-Triangle.

I don't know a lot about the Tex Winter Triangle -- just basic principles.

But I do know more-than-average about the psychological/Zen stuff that Jackson adds to it.

So what affects shot selection (?) It depends on what you're trying to accomplish over what period of time. I mean, you can understand that even in conventional basketball terms. For example, having your best player take shots only makes sense if the opposing defense is under some uncertainty about whether he will. Right (?) Otherwise, they would put all 5 defenders on him. So you have to have run a certain number of plays for other players (even if they're not your best player) to keep the defense honest. This is pretty simple and basic -- and it's a psychological consideration.

So what I'm saying is that in the Jackson-Triangle there are 10 times as many such considerations. And it takes a long time to sort them out.

Are the Knicks just plain messing up sometimes -- both playing and coaching (?) Yeah, sure.

But they're also trying to develope a whole variety of personal and inter-personal instinctual skills . . . and some of the messing up (including shot selection) is a inevitable and necessary process to that end.

Watching this Knicks team isn't easy because we don't know what it is they're trying to do at this stage. They DEFINITELY don't having winning as the #1 priority at this time. That's still a long time away . . .

does the triangle promote more mid range shots than the traditional PnR type systems currently being run in the nba?

mreinman wrote:does the triangle promote more mid range shots than the traditional PnR type systems currently being run in the nba?

I guess we can say that the Triangle doesn't NECESSARILY emphasize high percentage shots at the rim plus high-value shots at 3-point range . . . at the expense of mid-range shots. With the talent you have it ends up one way or the other . . . but it's not part of the Triangle per se.

When you look at the numbers for ALL Triangles EVER, it MAY be that you get more mid-range shots -- because those are more open more often. I don't know enough about the historical numbers for the Triangle to say . . .