Knicks · great thing from tonight that will make us great (page 2)

blkexec wrote:

mreinman wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:The problem is for a young wanna be coach like fisher, he is stucked in the 80s

At first, I thought the problem was Fisher......now I think the real problem is Fisher working in Phil's shadow. I think Fisher is trying too hard to coach like Phil, instead of adapting to the roster at hand.

When your mentor, who taught you everything you know about winning championships, gives 14 mil to Lopez, you almost have no choice but to start him. Lopez and O'quinn are 1980's centers....In todays game, they are backup players most of the time, due to the speed of the game, and the offensive challenges to put the ball in the hole.

But I thought Melo was going to hold KP back....when in fact I think it's Lopez thats causing the offensive problems. He's taking up space on the offensive end that should go to at least 5 other players first.....

KP
Melo
AA
Seraphin

KP, Melo, AA are players that score from everywhere on the floor. When Lopez is in the game, this reduces the real estate and minimizes their opportunities. Thats why Lopez usually has nobody to pass it to, because his man sags off, guarding the passing lanes. When any of the 4 guys above have the ball in the post, there are more passing lanes, due to double teams. If no double comes, thats a bucket.

I like Lopez and think he's a needed asset. But it's clear that KP is not a normal rookie and he needs that floor space. It also gives Melo and AA room to operate in the post, where Melo can score over SF's.....

But again, when will Fisher grow some balls and just put the best offensive lineup on the floor for most of the game, and see if that makes a difference. I want to see KP start at center, so he can bring the other big out of the paint....create more space.....and use his quickness against slower centers.

rolo is slow but a modern player. He is much better suited for PnR then this stupid triangle and having him in the high post. His efficiency has tanked this season, is that him or the system that we are forcing him into?

Its also because of a number of other factors but it seems like this offense kills bigs efficiency unless you have an all world guard that can wreak havoc on defenses and create wide open looks for your bigs.

You know what we did during that run? We threw that ugly triangle sh1t in the garbage and ran PnR every time down.

I would sit Lopez and pair him with Grant off the bench, so they can play PnR. Use the triangle on the aka "small ball" lineup and see how that works. This makes it hard for other teams to game plan against us, if we are using two different types of offensive systems.

PnR linup.....Lopez, Seraphin, Grant, Dwill, Galo
Triangle lineup......KP, Melo, AA, Jose, LT

can't really run the pnr with that first line up. Nobody can shoot.

melo and KP should be playing PnR all day. How can it be that dirk cannot be defended when he sets picks and Melo does not do this? Melo needs to pick, force a switch / mismatch. Take player in the post, pass as soon as the double comes (this he still refuses to do - he just wont pass out of the post even if all 5 players plus the bench were draped all over him).

AA is actually our best post player so I like him there but he is a piss poor passer though he passed tonight. Outside of AA and Melo (if they were both willing to pass out of the post), we don't have anyone else who should be posting. Seraphin is terrible most of the time, Rolo's hooks should only be seen in black and white, Koq should not be on the team, etc ...

Remember when we tried to force post play / triangle through Dalambert?

Carmelo and Seraphin are holding the ball for too long in the post; it shouldn't be for more then 3 seconds, but these dudes are holding the ball for 5+ seconds

mreinman wrote:KP shooting phucking 3's!!!!!!!!

can we all see what this guy can do from deep? Can we stop missing this dude so often when he is wide open from beyond the arc?

can we stop with all the stupid posting and stretch the damn floor?

Enough with the old school bull shyt all game and opening it up at the end like tom coughlin.

KP is potentially one of the best 3 point shooters in the game

They seem willing to use him on the high pick. But they are not going to use him exclusively on the outside. A good game in the post also opens up the floor. At this point, when KP is into his moves in the post he is not looking for an open shooter. You did see drive onetime and kick it out to Calderon (I think) for a 3.

I do agree that they are missing him. There were 3 times at the end of the game when he was really open...and totally missed:

1) Anthony on the offensive foul when he hooked Matthews

2) Anthony after he did not get the foul call and then got the T

3) Calderon the he drove to the basket and missed a layup (he thought he was fouled)

In the last two you can see KP with his hands upraised, indicating that he was open.

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:KP shooting phucking 3's!!!!!!!!

can we all see what this guy can do from deep? Can we stop missing this dude so often when he is wide open from beyond the arc?

can we stop with all the stupid posting and stretch the damn floor?

Enough with the old school bull shyt all game and opening it up at the end like tom coughlin.

KP is potentially one of the best 3 point shooters in the game

They seem willing to use him on the high pick. But they are not going to use him exclusively on the outside. A good game in the post also opens up the floor. At this point, when KP is into his moves in the post he is not looking for an open shooter. You did see drive onetime and kick it out to Calderon (I think) for a 3.

I do agree that they are missing him. There were 3 times at the end of the game when he was really open...and totally missed:

1) Anthony on the offensive foul when he hooked Matthews

2) Anthony after he did not get the foul call and then got the T

3) Calderon the he drove to the basket and missed a layup (he thought he was fouled)

In the last two you can see KP with his hands upraised, indicating that he was open.

calderon missed him 3 times just down the stretch.

KP will of course take it into the post but only when he has a mismatch just like the way they used him in europe (in the post).

KP had 2 rebounds last nite. Why?

Nalod wrote:KP had 2 rebounds last nite. Why?

Dallas did a good job boxing him out. Once in a while he will have a game where the rebounds/block shots aren't there. However he still scored 28 points

blkexec wrote:Even Dirk just said KP at center and Melo at PF was a tough small ball lineup for them to guard. Eventhough it's hard to said small ball when KP is 7'3

But I think our best lineup will be KP at center and Melo at PF. Take it from me, I'm in my 40's and I rather play a bigger stronger guy than a guy my size or smaller / younger / quicker. Even better, if we had a superstar that actually played PF like Aldrige, thats even better.

We need to play KP and Melo more often at the center and pf positions, instead of waiting until we are down. It gives us more offense at all 5 positions, without giving up rim protection.

Here's the downside to that lineup and we saw it last night. When KP is at the 4 with a big like Lopez next to him he gets to both help on defense and clean the glass. When KP is playing 5 and Melo or another at the 4 then you take one of those away from him. If he helps you risk him losing his man for an offensive board or an easy lay in. If he boxes out to control the boards he's not there to help. Putting him at the 5 in those lineups takes away one of his biggest tools to impact the game.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:KP had 2 rebounds last nite. Why?

Dallas did a good job boxing him out. Once in a while he will have a game where the rebounds/block shots aren't there. However he still scored 28 points

When he was guarding Dirk he was almost exclusively on the perimeter, too.

Dallas did a good job boxing him out...Pachulia was rough-housing a great deal-more than just the time he got hit for the foul, but that is just a "rights of passage" for any rookie to have to go through, especially a highly touted one like KP.

I felt it was definitely a game where the added strength he will have as he matures and works out could have helped a great deal.

Also agree with fishmike that having Lopez in the lineup allows KP to do other things...one of them being rebounding.

One of the big things to come out at the end of the game is that KP, despite having gone through a tough and physical game, seemed to emerge at the finish with renewed energy. It was at a time when he could have wilted, but he seemed to rise up when the team needed him.

WaltLongmire wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:KP had 2 rebounds last nite. Why?

Dallas did a good job boxing him out. Once in a while he will have a game where the rebounds/block shots aren't there. However he still scored 28 points

When he was guarding Dirk he was almost exclusively on the perimeter, too.

Dallas did a good job boxing him out...Pachulia was rough-housing a great deal-more than just the time he got hit for the foul, but that is just a "rights of passage" for any rookie to have to go through, especially a highly touted one like KP.

I felt it was definitely a game where the added strength he will have as he matures and works out could have helped a great deal.

Also agree with fishmike that having Lopez in the lineup allows KP to do other things...one of them being rebounding.

One of the big things to come out at the end of the game is that KP, despite having gone through a tough and physical game, seemed to emerge at the finish with renewed energy. It was at a time when he could have wilted, but he seemed to rise up when the team needed him.

I really didnt think we would win, but man I was pumped to see him making those big plays. If Melo doesnt get called for that stupid foul and KP hits another 3 man that place would be up for grabs. Great to watch

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:Even Dirk just said KP at center and Melo at PF was a tough small ball lineup for them to guard. Eventhough it's hard to said small ball when KP is 7'3

But I think our best lineup will be KP at center and Melo at PF. Take it from me, I'm in my 40's and I rather play a bigger stronger guy than a guy my size or smaller / younger / quicker. Even better, if we had a superstar that actually played PF like Aldrige, thats even better.

We need to play KP and Melo more often at the center and pf positions, instead of waiting until we are down. It gives us more offense at all 5 positions, without giving up rim protection.

Here's the downside to that lineup and we saw it last night. When KP is at the 4 with a big like Lopez next to him he gets to both help on defense and clean the glass. When KP is playing 5 and Melo or another at the 4 then you take one of those away from him. If he helps you risk him losing his man for an offensive board or an easy lay in. If he boxes out to control the boards he's not there to help. Putting him at the 5 in those lineups takes away one of his biggest tools to impact the game.

I agree but Melo's shooting efficiency has been a lot better when he plays PF for us - probably because the floor spacing is so good.

WaltLongmire wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:KP had 2 rebounds last nite. Why?

Dallas did a good job boxing him out. Once in a while he will have a game where the rebounds/block shots aren't there. However he still scored 28 points

When he was guarding Dirk he was almost exclusively on the perimeter, too.

Dallas did a good job boxing him out...Pachulia was rough-housing a great deal-more than just the time he got hit for the foul, but that is just a "rights of passage" for any rookie to have to go through, especially a highly touted one like KP.

I felt it was definitely a game where the added strength he will have as he matures and works out could have helped a great deal.

Also agree with fishmike that having Lopez in the lineup allows KP to do other things...one of them being rebounding.

One of the big things to come out at the end of the game is that KP, despite having gone through a tough and physical game, seemed to emerge at the finish with renewed energy. It was at a time when he could have wilted, but he seemed to rise up when the team needed him.

spot on about KP being pulled away on dirk and with what pachulia was doing.

One issue with Rolo was that they were killing him with the small ball picks and he could not cover with enough speed on the perimeter. Rolo is great if the knicks force the play towards a backing up rolo but when teams as staying back and shooting behind the picks, Rolo has a really hard time guarding.