Knicks · Just so you Know it ain't the player (page 1)

Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

that players had or are having a hard time comprehending their roles in the triangle. I have posted lots of comparison data about this.

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

What does it tell you and why doesn't it apply to Afflalo and Porzingis and Galloway for half of the games and not for the other half?

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

that players had or are having a hard time comprehending their roles in the triangle. I have posted lots of comparison data about this.

Let me guess, you blame it on the triangle?

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

that players had or are having a hard time comprehending their roles in the triangle. I have posted lots of comparison data about this.

Let me guess, you blame it on the triangle?

Not sure what it is but the learning curve of the triangle seems like a good candidate since this is what they all have in common. It can also be the guards that we have had running the triangle here. It could be many things but I suspect that the triangle is a big part of it.

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

that players had or are having a hard time comprehending their roles in the triangle. I have posted lots of comparison data about this.

Let me guess, you blame it on the triangle?

Not sure what it is but the learning curve of the triangle seems like a good candidate since this is what they all have in common. It can also be the guards that we have had running the triangle here. It could be many things but I suspect that the triangle is a big part of it.

Except that the premise isn't accurate. Larkin is playing better. That isn't damn near every player. In fact damn near every player sent out is shooting worse if you take the time to check.

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy (same), Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

that players had or are having a hard time comprehending their roles in the triangle. I have posted lots of comparison data about this.

Let me guess, you blame it on the triangle?

Not sure what it is but the learning curve of the triangle seems like a good candidate since this is what they all have in common. It can also be the guards that we have had running the triangle here. It could be many things but I suspect that the triangle is a big part of it.

Except that the premise isn't accurate. Larkin is playing better. That isn't damn near every player. In fact damn near every player sent out is shooting worse if you take the time to check.

Jason Smith has a TS this year of 57 vs 49 last year. That is a huge difference.

which players are you talking about?

Larkin TS this year is 55 vs 50 last year.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy, Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

Larkin was not good on the knicks while given a lot of minutes. Why does he look so much better this year?

Acy is playing 10 minutes a game and has played in 11 games. Is that something to trash the triangle on? Smith is doing better but his role is smaller. In his case there are other variables ( he has better teammates ). The majority of the guys on the team that moved on are shooting a worse percentage or are out of the league. That is a fact. Which is opposite of what the op said. Also, Sam is just not a good pro. He got cut from the Mavs when they were desperate for a center and he knew the system. Wasnt he the guy that said he used training camp to get himself into shape this year?

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

good post

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy, Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

Larkin was not good on the knicks while given a lot of minutes. Why does he look so much better this year?

Acy is playing 10 minutes a game and has played in 11 games. Is that something to trash the triangle on? Smith is doing better but his role is smaller. In his case there are other variables ( he has better teammates ). The majority of the guys on the team that moved on are shooting a worse percentage or are out of the league. That is a fact. Which is opposite of what the op said. Also, Sam is just not a good pro. He got cut from the Mavs when they were desperate for a center and he knew the system. Wasnt he the guy that said he used training camp to get himself into shape this year?

Acy is about the same.

The point with Sammy is the nose dive his efficiency was even in the same year. Coming back that he is out of the league is not an argument. He is not a good player.

Which players did we bring in that increased their efficiency and which players that we sent away are doing worse?

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy (same), Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

We are what 20 games into the season - comparing a team with no prior team exeprience (all the players are learning each other AND the system) it's kind pf early to make this comp

This is just more BS. If players are struggling so far this year after just 22 games it doesn't mean that they can't also eventually adjust and shoot better. It is after all a new team for the most part. Only Melo, Early and Jose were actually on the opening day roster last year. Everyone else came to the team late last year or this summer!!! So 22 games for a new group of players and we already have a closed book on how this season is going to play out for these players. Never mind that it's not really about just this season. This is about the next 3 seasons as well.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy, Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

Larkin was not good on the knicks while given a lot of minutes. Why does he look so much better this year?

Acy is playing 10 minutes a game and has played in 11 games. Is that something to trash the triangle on? Smith is doing better but his role is smaller. In his case there are other variables ( he has better teammates ). The majority of the guys on the team that moved on are shooting a worse percentage or are out of the league. That is a fact. Which is opposite of what the op said. Also, Sam is just not a good pro. He got cut from the Mavs when they were desperate for a center and he knew the system. Wasnt he the guy that said he used training camp to get himself into shape this year?

Acy is about the same.

The point with Sammy is the nose dive his efficiency was even in the same year. Coming back that he is out of the league is not an argument. He is not a good player.

Which players did we bring in that increased their efficiency and which players that we sent away are doing better?

I thought the point of the thread was that almost all of the guys traded or that moved on were shooting better not playing in the triangle. That was what the op said. It wasn't accurate.

meloshouldgo wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy (same), Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

We are what 20 games into the season - comparing a team with no prior team exeprience (all the players are learning each other AND the system) it's kind pf early to make this comp

its not a determination. Its something to keep an eye on. Its definitely a trend that is concerning.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy, Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

Larkin was not good on the knicks while given a lot of minutes. Why does he look so much better this year?

Acy is playing 10 minutes a game and has played in 11 games. Is that something to trash the triangle on? Smith is doing better but his role is smaller. In his case there are other variables ( he has better teammates ). The majority of the guys on the team that moved on are shooting a worse percentage or are out of the league. That is a fact. Which is opposite of what the op said. Also, Sam is just not a good pro. He got cut from the Mavs when they were desperate for a center and he knew the system. Wasnt he the guy that said he used training camp to get himself into shape this year?

Acy is about the same.

The point with Sammy is the nose dive his efficiency was even in the same year. Coming back that he is out of the league is not an argument. He is not a good player.

Which players did we bring in that increased their efficiency and which players that we sent away are doing better?

I thought the point of the thread was that almost all of the guys traded or that moved on were shooting better not playing in the triangle. That was what the op said. It wasn't accurate.

I think that a majority of the players that we brought in are doing worse (less efficient) and the majority of the players that left (and that have enough of a sample size on their new teams) are playing better. Or more efficient.

nixluva wrote:This is just more BS. If players are struggling so far this year after just 22 games it doesn't mean that they can't also eventually adjust and shoot better. It is after all a new team for the most part. Only Melo, Early and Jose were actually on the opening day roster last year. Everyone else came to the team late last year or this summer!!! So 22 games for a new group of players and we already have a closed book on how this season is going to play out for these players. Never mind that it's not really about just this season. This is about the next 3 seasons as well.

nobody closed the book.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is just more BS. If players are struggling so far this year after just 22 games it doesn't mean that they can't also eventually adjust and shoot better. It is after all a new team for the most part. Only Melo, Early and Jose were actually on the opening day roster last year. Everyone else came to the team late last year or this summer!!! So 22 games for a new group of players and we already have a closed book on how this season is going to play out for these players. Never mind that it's not really about just this season. This is about the next 3 seasons as well.

nobody closed the book.

Assuming that this system is the problem is closing the book. It assumes that the players won't get better at executing within the system and excelling beyond the system.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy, Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

Larkin was not good on the knicks while given a lot of minutes. Why does he look so much better this year?

Acy is playing 10 minutes a game and has played in 11 games. Is that something to trash the triangle on? Smith is doing better but his role is smaller. In his case there are other variables ( he has better teammates ). The majority of the guys on the team that moved on are shooting a worse percentage or are out of the league. That is a fact. Which is opposite of what the op said. Also, Sam is just not a good pro. He got cut from the Mavs when they were desperate for a center and he knew the system. Wasnt he the guy that said he used training camp to get himself into shape this year?

Acy is about the same.

The point with Sammy is the nose dive his efficiency was even in the same year. Coming back that he is out of the league is not an argument. He is not a good player.

Which players did we bring in that increased their efficiency and which players that we sent away are doing better?

I thought the point of the thread was that almost all of the guys traded or that moved on were shooting better not playing in the triangle. That was what the op said. It wasn't accurate.

I think that a majority of the players that we brought in are doing worse (less efficient) and the majority of the players that left (and that have enough of a sample size on their new teams) are playing better. Or more efficient.

Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

I checked on the guys that left. They either are shooting at a lower percentage, are not playing or are out of the league. Larkin is playing better. Smith and Acy in much smaller roles are shooting a better percentage. Acy does not play much though. Not sure how that translates to the majority of the players that left are shooting better as the op said. So I guess if 3/11 is a majority then I stand corrected.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

Every new player we have this season is shooting well below their avg (dramatically in some cases) this season.

So what does that tell you?

Which player? Shump is out. Bargs is out. Shved is in Europe. Cole doesn't play. Larkin and Jason Smith? Amare has played in two games I believe. I checked on Pablo because I forgot what team he is on but he is shooting worse for the Clips. Wear, Hardaway, and Dalembert aren't in the nba right now. JR is shooting worse then last year. Jason Smith and Quincy Acy are shooting better but both are playing significantly less minutes a game. Acy has played just over a 100 minutes on the season. The only guy that is shooting and playing a lot better in my opinion is Larkin. Larkin wasn't that good as a knick and he was given a lot of minutes.

Acy, Jason Smith, Larkin

Sammy was so much worse here than he was anywhere else.

players here like Koq, Seraphin, Rolo, Melo are all way below their career efficiencies.

Larkin was not good on the knicks while given a lot of minutes. Why does he look so much better this year?

Acy is playing 10 minutes a game and has played in 11 games. Is that something to trash the triangle on? Smith is doing better but his role is smaller. In his case there are other variables ( he has better teammates ). The majority of the guys on the team that moved on are shooting a worse percentage or are out of the league. That is a fact. Which is opposite of what the op said. Also, Sam is just not a good pro. He got cut from the Mavs when they were desperate for a center and he knew the system. Wasnt he the guy that said he used training camp to get himself into shape this year?

Acy is about the same.

The point with Sammy is the nose dive his efficiency was even in the same year. Coming back that he is out of the league is not an argument. He is not a good player.

Which players did we bring in that increased their efficiency and which players that we sent away are doing better?

I thought the point of the thread was that almost all of the guys traded or that moved on were shooting better not playing in the triangle. That was what the op said. It wasn't accurate.

I think that a majority of the players that we brought in are doing worse (less efficient) and the majority of the players that left (and that have enough of a sample size on their new teams) are playing better. Or more efficient.

Damn near every player traded or not brought back from last season is shooting a much higher % despite being on new teams

I checked on the guys that left. They either are shooting at a lower percentage, are not playing or are out of the league. Larkin is playing better. Smith and Acy in much smaller roles are shooting a better percentage. Acy does not play much though. Not sure how that translates to the majority of the players that left are shooting better as the op said. So I guess if 3/11 is a majority then I stand corrected.

name some players that support your argument. Most players who's shooting can be quantified (they are playing) are shooting more efficiently on other teams and most players that we brought in are shooting worse.

AA - same
Seraphin - worse
williams - worse
koq - worse
Rolo - worse
Jose - worse initially now better (perhaps it takes a year of a big dip and then it comes around? Not denying that)
Melo - worse

This def something to this. Is it just the learning curve or at least a big part of it? Players need 50-80 games? Perhaps.