Its pretty simple. I dont think he gets the game anymore--he might be a dinosaur. If you really dont think basketball has changed watch a Warriors game.
This is no longer 1991 where teams get into the halfcourt--a player like Robin Lopez is merely a back up on a good team now but we paid him like a featured starter.
I think Phil DID NOT want KP and he lucked into him or hed probably have quit by now. But this team is destined to slide as is--we were never good--we caught some teams with our defense but that is gone now--its like a pitcher on the 2ne time around the order.
I dont see players other than KP where I say year we can build with him I know that. KP really is our only guy. Thank God for that.
You don't turn into a 50 win team from a 17 win team by adding guys like Lopez, Afflalo and the other guys he added. It's clear and he admitted as much that he wasn't able to get his top targets in FA. This was their 3rd best player for each position they wanted filled.
What's important is that they actually have some improvement. The early strong start maybe made fans think the Knicks would win 50 games, but they won't. They're an improved team that likely wins 30-35 games. Phil has to make more moves, and I'm sure he knows.
The biggest thing right now is that they seem to have a head coach who hasn't figured out that he needs to use Porzingis more as the focal point, that he needs to run a LOT of S/R up high for Porzingis. You set up the Triangle spacing, and then from there you try to work 2 man games. The Triangle is way way too complicated for most of these players. They need a long time playing in it to get it. If they want some better O, use Porzingis more at 5 after the start, and run a lot of sets with him playing S/R with either Calderon or Melo.
Instead, of building on what they were doing in the 4th Q of the previous game, they just completely went away from it. In fact I saw some nice action with Porzingis at the 5 in the 2nd Q, and then all of a sudden Fisher benches him for Lopez. Don't understand what Fisher is thinking. You got to build on the O the team showed late against Dallas. Instead all of those sets are completely gone.
Fisher HAS to pull Lopez early in the 1st Q, bring him back with the 2nd unit, then go back to Porzingis to close the halves as a 5. And when Porzingis is playing 5, they need to run a higher tempo O, with a lot of screen setting by Porzingis, as this causes huge issues for our opponents.
nyknickzingis wrote:You don't turn into a 50 win team from a 17 win team by adding guys like Lopez, Afflalo and the other guys he added. It's clear and he admitted as much that he wasn't able to get his top targets in FA. This was their 3rd best player for each position they wanted filled.What's important is that they actually have some improvement. The early strong start maybe made fans think the Knicks would win 50 games, but they won't. They're an improved team that likely wins 30-35 games. Phil has to make more moves, and I'm sure he knows.
The biggest thing right now is that they seem to have a head coach who hasn't figured out that he needs to use Porzingis more as the focal point, that he needs to run a LOT of S/R up high for Porzingis. You set up the Triangle spacing, and then from there you try to work 2 man games. The Triangle is way way too complicated for most of these players. They need a long time playing in it to get it. If they want some better O, use Porzingis more at 5 after the start, and run a lot of sets with him playing S/R with either Calderon or Melo.
Instead, of building on what they were doing in the 4th Q of the previous game, they just completely went away from it. In fact I saw some nice action with Porzingis at the 5 in the 2nd Q, and then all of a sudden Fisher benches him for Lopez. Don't understand what Fisher is thinking. You got to build on the O the team showed late against Dallas. Instead all of those sets are completely gone.
Ah this team is junk. How do you go to 50 how do you get the players. We spent a LOT of money last year and we got nothing. 7 feet 265 and not 1 rebound.
Thread written in the throws of frustration in a losing game.
What if they rally and win? Down 30, three games under .500, time for letter grades.
Cant say Pjax didn't want KP when he drafted him! That's total BS. Give Pjax the credit he deserves for the pick. Not sure what else you wanted him to do this summer. LaMarcus nor Jordan, the two biggest FA's, were coming here....So who did he miss out on?
I get the doom and gloom threads you always create during a losing streak. I get it. But where are you during the winning streak? If you believe the team sucks when they lose.....Then create a similar thread about the team when they win. Otherwise, this looks like a typical I hate the knicks and phil jackson thread only when we lose.....But when we win, phil is the smartest GM ever. Be consistent please.
Phil had the balls to draft KP. Whether he lucked into him, or only agreed to him because his advisors were adement doesn't matter. He made the call. Nothing else matters because he gave this team a future and a direction. Funny how you say he's outdated, yet the player he drafted is probably the poster child for the new wave of big men. As for the rest of the group, they are ok, nothing special. We are going to at least double our win total this season, maybe do better, and that's quite an improvement. But again, it doesn't matter because Phil drafted our future. LA and Philly wanted him to, but didn't have the balls to draft him, Phil did. Give credit where credit is due.
Jackson is to be blamed for hiring the wrong guy with zero experience to coach a NewYork ball club. The idea was crazy then, and it is still crazy now. Do you think Mark Jackson would look this bad? After all, the team that won last year was assembled and coached by Mark for the previous three years
Knixkik wrote:Phil had the balls to draft KP. Whether he lucked into him, or only agreed to him because his advisors were adement doesn't matter. He made the call. Nothing else matters because he gave this team a future and a direction. Funny how you say he's outdated, yet the player he drafted is probably the poster child for the new wave of big men. As for the rest of the group, they are ok, nothing special. We are going to at least double our win total this season, maybe do better, and that's quite an improvement. But again, it doesn't matter because Phil drafted our future. LA and Philly wanted him to, but didn't have the balls to draft him, Phil did. Give credit where credit is due.
This. Also, I think it would be wise to wait until more than 1/4 of the season is over before assigning grades.
CrushAlot wrote:Knixkik wrote:Phil had the balls to draft KP. Whether he lucked into him, or only agreed to him because his advisors were adement doesn't matter. He made the call. Nothing else matters because he gave this team a future and a direction. Funny how you say he's outdated, yet the player he drafted is probably the poster child for the new wave of big men. As for the rest of the group, they are ok, nothing special. We are going to at least double our win total this season, maybe do better, and that's quite an improvement. But again, it doesn't matter because Phil drafted our future. LA and Philly wanted him to, but didn't have the balls to draft him, Phil did. Give credit where credit is due.
This. Also, I think it would be wise to wait until more than 1/4 of the season is over before assigning grades.
I thought Berman already assigned grades You wouldnt have saw that right 
They need a major upgrade of talent in the back court. I like Afflalo, but probably more as a sixth man to anchor the scoring off the bench.
We desperately need a starting caliber PG and a knock down shooter / defender at SG.
But, really, I worry this issue is about the system. I hate the spacing on this team. I hate that the system asks Lopez and Seraphin to make passing decisions. I hate that the shots it get us are weird jumpers for Lance Thomas and bad shots for Melo. KP is thriving, but he'd probably look even better in a spread offense.
I don't know. We lack talent, but I think a lot of this is the system we play.
crzymdups wrote:They need a major upgrade of talent in the back court. I like Afflalo, but probably more as a sixth man to anchor the scoring off the bench.We desperately need a starting caliber PG and a knock down shooter / defender at SG.
But, really, I worry this issue is about the system. I hate the spacing on this team. I hate that the system asks Lopez and Seraphin to make passing decisions. I hate that the shots it get us are weird jumpers for Lance Thomas and bad shots for Melo. KP is thriving, but he'd probably look even better in a spread offense.
I don't know. We lack talent, but I think a lot of this is the system we play.
We need a PG. A real penetrator a la Rose. But there is not a trade we can do that can better this team if we don't have someone on the sideline that can use the talents
Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:They need a major upgrade of talent in the back court. I like Afflalo, but probably more as a sixth man to anchor the scoring off the bench.We desperately need a starting caliber PG and a knock down shooter / defender at SG.
But, really, I worry this issue is about the system. I hate the spacing on this team. I hate that the system asks Lopez and Seraphin to make passing decisions. I hate that the shots it get us are weird jumpers for Lance Thomas and bad shots for Melo. KP is thriving, but he'd probably look even better in a spread offense.
I don't know. We lack talent, but I think a lot of this is the system we play.
We need a PG. A real penetrator a la Rose. But there is not a trade we can do that can better this team if we don't have someone on the sideline that can use the talents
The system didn't originate on the sideline, with Fish. The system is Phil's. He will go down in flames before he abandons the Triangle. He got us KP, but I feel his obsession with trying to prove the Triangle right will be his undoing here.
crzymdups wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:They need a major upgrade of talent in the back court. I like Afflalo, but probably more as a sixth man to anchor the scoring off the bench.We desperately need a starting caliber PG and a knock down shooter / defender at SG.
But, really, I worry this issue is about the system. I hate the spacing on this team. I hate that the system asks Lopez and Seraphin to make passing decisions. I hate that the shots it get us are weird jumpers for Lance Thomas and bad shots for Melo. KP is thriving, but he'd probably look even better in a spread offense.
I don't know. We lack talent, but I think a lot of this is the system we play.
We need a PG. A real penetrator a la Rose. But there is not a trade we can do that can better this team if we don't have someone on the sideline that can use the talents
The system didn't originate on the sideline, with Fish. The system is Phil's. He will go down in flames before he abandons the Triangle. He got us KP, but I feel his obsession with trying to prove the Triangle right will be his undoing here.
Is the system the problem or the instructor?
Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:They need a major upgrade of talent in the back court. I like Afflalo, but probably more as a sixth man to anchor the scoring off the bench.We desperately need a starting caliber PG and a knock down shooter / defender at SG.
But, really, I worry this issue is about the system. I hate the spacing on this team. I hate that the system asks Lopez and Seraphin to make passing decisions. I hate that the shots it get us are weird jumpers for Lance Thomas and bad shots for Melo. KP is thriving, but he'd probably look even better in a spread offense.
I don't know. We lack talent, but I think a lot of this is the system we play.
We need a PG. A real penetrator a la Rose. But there is not a trade we can do that can better this team if we don't have someone on the sideline that can use the talents
The system didn't originate on the sideline, with Fish. The system is Phil's. He will go down in flames before he abandons the Triangle. He got us KP, but I feel his obsession with trying to prove the Triangle right will be his undoing here.
Is the system the problem or the instructor?
The system is outdated - it was created before there was a three point shot. It was created in a different era when harder fouls happened and players were less athletic and didn't have video of every player and every play handed to them by the coaching staff to review before a game.
The system is outdated. It makes it hard to judge Fisher. I don't hate Fisher, but it is hard to judge him. The talent on this roster was widely predicted to win 30 games. They are running a system from another era that has only succeeded in modern times with two in their prime hall of famers. If we had Kobe in his prime and Melo in his prime, I'm sure we'd all think Fisher was a genius.
crzymdups wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:They need a major upgrade of talent in the back court. I like Afflalo, but probably more as a sixth man to anchor the scoring off the bench.We desperately need a starting caliber PG and a knock down shooter / defender at SG.
But, really, I worry this issue is about the system. I hate the spacing on this team. I hate that the system asks Lopez and Seraphin to make passing decisions. I hate that the shots it get us are weird jumpers for Lance Thomas and bad shots for Melo. KP is thriving, but he'd probably look even better in a spread offense.
I don't know. We lack talent, but I think a lot of this is the system we play.
We need a PG. A real penetrator a la Rose. But there is not a trade we can do that can better this team if we don't have someone on the sideline that can use the talents
The system didn't originate on the sideline, with Fish. The system is Phil's. He will go down in flames before he abandons the Triangle. He got us KP, but I feel his obsession with trying to prove the Triangle right will be his undoing here.
Is the system the problem or the instructor?
The system is outdated - it was created before there was a three point shot. It was created in a different era when harder fouls happened and players were less athletic and didn't have video of every player and every play handed to them by the coaching staff to review before a game.
The system is outdated. It makes it hard to judge Fisher. I don't hate Fisher, but it is hard to judge him. The talent on this roster was widely predicted to win 30 games. They are running a system from another era that has only succeeded in modern times with two in their prime hall of famers. If we had Kobe in his prime and Melo in his prime, I'm sure we'd all think Fisher was a genius.
I beg to differ. The system is not the problem at all. GS, Spurs, and many other teams are using certain version of it. It takes a great instructor to tutor/mold guys to be great. The system is not the problem
Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:They need a major upgrade of talent in the back court. I like Afflalo, but probably more as a sixth man to anchor the scoring off the bench.We desperately need a starting caliber PG and a knock down shooter / defender at SG.
But, really, I worry this issue is about the system. I hate the spacing on this team. I hate that the system asks Lopez and Seraphin to make passing decisions. I hate that the shots it get us are weird jumpers for Lance Thomas and bad shots for Melo. KP is thriving, but he'd probably look even better in a spread offense.
I don't know. We lack talent, but I think a lot of this is the system we play.
We need a PG. A real penetrator a la Rose. But there is not a trade we can do that can better this team if we don't have someone on the sideline that can use the talents
The system didn't originate on the sideline, with Fish. The system is Phil's. He will go down in flames before he abandons the Triangle. He got us KP, but I feel his obsession with trying to prove the Triangle right will be his undoing here.
Is the system the problem or the instructor?
The system is outdated - it was created before there was a three point shot. It was created in a different era when harder fouls happened and players were less athletic and didn't have video of every player and every play handed to them by the coaching staff to review before a game.
The system is outdated. It makes it hard to judge Fisher. I don't hate Fisher, but it is hard to judge him. The talent on this roster was widely predicted to win 30 games. They are running a system from another era that has only succeeded in modern times with two in their prime hall of famers. If we had Kobe in his prime and Melo in his prime, I'm sure we'd all think Fisher was a genius.
I beg to differ. The system is not the problem at all. GS, Spurs, and many other teams are using certain version of it. It takes a great instructor to tutor/mold guys to be great. The system is not the problem
Fisher and Phil's version of it is outdated then.
Also, Golden State has the best player in the league. And San Antonio has had Tim Duncan for almost twenty years. Those things make your systems look smarter.
BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knixkik wrote:Phil had the balls to draft KP. Whether he lucked into him, or only agreed to him because his advisors were adement doesn't matter. He made the call. Nothing else matters because he gave this team a future and a direction. Funny how you say he's outdated, yet the player he drafted is probably the poster child for the new wave of big men. As for the rest of the group, they are ok, nothing special. We are going to at least double our win total this season, maybe do better, and that's quite an improvement. But again, it doesn't matter because Phil drafted our future. LA and Philly wanted him to, but didn't have the balls to draft him, Phil did. Give credit where credit is due.
This. Also, I think it would be wise to wait until more than 1/4 of the season is over before assigning grades.
I thought Berman already assigned grades You wouldnt have saw that right
Berman has to use create content on a near daily basis. You were blasting in the fist half.
Nalod sees and awful program I change the channel. That was awful. That might make me less than the best fan so be it.
When one predicts a 35 win season its obvious they will lose more than they will win, and this is really our first really bad game of the season. After two games over .500 they lost 7 of the last 9. Obviously we are not a good team right now.
I don't know how to fix it, but its not my job to convince others how to either. Sorry IM cranky on you and maybe knick69 who is full "Rainman" on Fisher as coach.
Phil did attain C grade FA talent. There's no question about it. But you don't judge a re-build after 1 year. A re-build usually in takes 1-2 years, many times 2-3 of being in the lottery. Getting elite drafted talent and pairing them up with some FA/trade veteran talent. Phil's got some pieces, but he has to trade. Unfortunately for us, because of the mistakes of the guys before Phil, we can't even keep the lottery pick this year. Imagine having another 10th or 11th pick to work with, and I'd be confident we'd have some major talent to add there.
Since that's out of the equation, the Knicks have to look at improving via trades and the next FA season. I think we have trade-able pieces on this roster. It won't be easy, but Phil's next step is to ensure he keeps making improvements.
Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:crzymdups wrote:They need a major upgrade of talent in the back court. I like Afflalo, but probably more as a sixth man to anchor the scoring off the bench.We desperately need a starting caliber PG and a knock down shooter / defender at SG.
But, really, I worry this issue is about the system. I hate the spacing on this team. I hate that the system asks Lopez and Seraphin to make passing decisions. I hate that the shots it get us are weird jumpers for Lance Thomas and bad shots for Melo. KP is thriving, but he'd probably look even better in a spread offense.
I don't know. We lack talent, but I think a lot of this is the system we play.
We need a PG. A real penetrator a la Rose. But there is not a trade we can do that can better this team if we don't have someone on the sideline that can use the talents
The system didn't originate on the sideline, with Fish. The system is Phil's. He will go down in flames before he abandons the Triangle. He got us KP, but I feel his obsession with trying to prove the Triangle right will be his undoing here.
Is the system the problem or the instructor?
The system is outdated - it was created before there was a three point shot. It was created in a different era when harder fouls happened and players were less athletic and didn't have video of every player and every play handed to them by the coaching staff to review before a game.
The system is outdated. It makes it hard to judge Fisher. I don't hate Fisher, but it is hard to judge him. The talent on this roster was widely predicted to win 30 games. They are running a system from another era that has only succeeded in modern times with two in their prime hall of famers. If we had Kobe in his prime and Melo in his prime, I'm sure we'd all think Fisher was a genius.
I beg to differ. The system is not the problem at all. GS, Spurs, and many other teams are using certain version of it. It takes a great instructor to tutor/mold guys to be great. The system is not the problem
I agree and disagree.
I agree the system is not the problem.
I disagree that the problem is the instructor (Fisher).
You've already said look at GS as an example.....If they had our roster, do you think they would be undefeated?
The problem is the talent on the roster. Melo is not the normal NBA star with multiple talents. He has one top talent, which is scoring.....After that, everything else is average or below.....including his leadership on and off the court. He tried this summer, and he will continue to try and improve, but right now, thats what he is.
KP is the other young talent, but he's a rookie....And if a rookie is your second best player....(right now best player)....Then we have major roster problems.
My thing is, we won 17 games last year, because of the roster. We are not going to just be a 50 win team the next year, with a new roster of backups.
If you create an allstar team right now, Melo would be the 6th man off the bench.....coming in firing. Thats what he likes to do, and thats the role he prefers. He doesn't want to lead, doesn't want to pass....just make buckets. Thats fine with me. But outside of Melo, we really don't have starter quality players. Most good teams not only have legit NBA starters....but they also have starters coming off the bench. We have bench players starting....and D league players coming off the bench.
The roster is the problem....not the system or coach! And GS as you mentioned, is a great example of that.
Knicks1969 wrote:Jackson is to be blamed for hiring the wrong guy with zero experience to coach a NewYork ball club. The idea was crazy then, and it is still crazy now. Do you think Mark Jackson would look this bad? After all, the team that won last year was assembled and coached by Mark for the previous three years
agreed , we need a coach with some energy and a better offense
