People are looking at this all wrong! The idea is not to focus so much on the Side Triangle but rather to score more BEFORE you need to set up in Side Triangle. That was the magic of the last game and when we play our best ball. The Side Triangle is secondary to Early offense!!! A PG like Jennings can help us get more Early O and be less dependent on the slower half court stuff. Scoring easy early buckets is the real goal and Triangle is secondary to that. If Jennings is not gonna take much in assets then go for it.
Knicks1969 wrote:Jennings= a shorter JR Smith with a bad leg. For that I say "no thanks."
JR Smith = Marcus Throthon = Nate Robinson = Brandon Jennings = 2nd or 3rd professional scorer...I will take it if he 75% of what he was because he is......drum roll please
AN EXPIRING DEAL!!!!!!!!!
ekstarks94 wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Jennings= a shorter JR Smith with a bad leg. For that I say "no thanks."
JR Smith = Marcus Throthon = Nate Robinson = Brandon Jennings = 2nd or 3rd professional scorer...I will take it if he 75% of what he was because he is......drum roll please
AN EXPIRING DEAL!!!!!!!!!
So you would include Grant in a deal for him? No thanks
meloanyk wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Jennings= a shorter JR Smith with a bad leg. For that I say "no thanks."
JR Smith = Marcus Throthon = Nate Robinson = Brandon Jennings = 2nd or 3rd professional scorer...I will take it if he 75% of what he was because he is......drum roll please
AN EXPIRING DEAL!!!!!!!!!
So you would include Grant in a deal for him? No thanks
Who said include Grant....I said spare parts not including Caledron....Grant is the future....but you almost have to include Caledron and a sweetener to get Jennings expiring...just not Grant
If this wasn't the trade all the media was talking about I would say it could happen. However, its too well known so I doubt SVG lets it happen. Every analysis talks about how it potentially helps the knicks and they never talk about how it helps detroit. Also looking at the knicks pass no way do you pull a potential antonio mcdysse trade of a young asset for an older asset coming off an injury and in need of getting paid.
If detroit trades Jennings just for Calderon I expect at least one announced setback in his healing time table before he plays as a knick.
Its better to stay pat than get trade raped.
Calderon is not worth the 7MM we are paying him and he isn't worth the 7.5MM next season.
If you can move him and Seraphin for Jennings that's a great move. You're not resigning Kevin and you get rid of Jose's contract. That give's you more money to play with in the free agent market next season. The only guy I would look to is Mike Conely on a 3 year deal.
Phil should have brought back Lin, that was a big mistake. Sasha is useless and Lin can at least penetrate and score the ball. He is exactly what we are missing on the second unit.
I struggle to see how Jennings would fit the triangle but would not be averse to giving it a try if Calderon (and minor pieces) was (were) being dumped in the process. Worse comes to worse, we end up with an additional $9 million of cap space this offseason and an opportunity to build on what we already have.
But if we're actually trying to swing for the fences on a worthwhile opportunity, I'd do so on Lance Stephenson. Yes, he's a cancer but Zen has redeemed/wrangled similar players (Dennis Rodman) before. Needless to say, he's a knucklehead but it doesn't mean that they can't contribute positively to a winning team (see Rasheed Wallace and more recently, Hassan Whiteside). And given Stephenson's success with running elements of the triangle and the triangle outright with Brian Shaw in Indy, I'd be tempted to roll the dice on him. Like with Jennings, he is an expirer so the worse that can happen is that he doesn't work out and is cut before the end of the season. Best case scenario? We get the guy that was the best player in that Heat-Pacers conference finals that is a nightly triple double threat and elite defender within the confines of our system.
That being said, I really think that all it'd take to get Lance here is Calderon, Early and Seraphin. The Clippers improve their bench, while we get to consolidate our own and free up cap space in the process. I'd bring Stephenson off the bench and allow him to backup the SF and SG as the primary ballhandler, which will allow him to get the 30 minutes he needs to be effective.
NardDogNation wrote:I struggle to see how Jennings would fit the triangle but would not be averse to giving it a try if Calderon (and minor pieces) was (were) being dumped in the process. Worse comes to worse, we end up with an additional $9 million of cap space this offseason and an opportunity to build on what we already have.But if we're actually trying to swing for the fences on a worthwhile opportunity, I'd do so on Lance Stephenson. Yes, he's a cancer but Zen has redeemed/wrangled similar players (Dennis Rodman) before. Needless to say, he's a knucklehead but it doesn't mean that they can't contribute positively to a winning team (see Rasheed Wallace and more recently, Hassan Whiteside). And given Stephenson's success with running elements of the triangle and the triangle outright with Brian Shaw in Indy, I'd be tempted to roll the dice on him. Like with Jennings, he is an expirer so the worse that can happen is that he doesn't work out and is cut before the end of the season. Best case scenario? We get the guy that was the best player in that Heat-Pacers conference finals that is a nightly triple double threat and elite defender within the confines of our system.
That being said, I really think that all it'd take to get Lance here is Calderon, Early and Seraphin. The Clippers improve their bench, while we get to consolidate our own and free up cap space in the process. I'd bring Stephenson off the bench and allow him to backup the SF and SG as the primary ballhandler, which will allow him to get the 30 minutes he needs to be effective.
Good post as you offer a basis for either player given a low cost and the shedding of Calderon !7 $. Id stay clear of Stephenson, he might uptick with a change of scenery but he simply isnt that good and his baggage could resurface here. Dont see Jennings as a long term fit but his game and character are more agreeable of the two
NardDogNation wrote:I struggle to see how Jennings would fit the triangle but would not be averse to giving it a try if Calderon (and minor pieces) was (were) being dumped in the process. Worse comes to worse, we end up with an additional $9 million of cap space this offseason and an opportunity to build on what we already have.But if we're actually trying to swing for the fences on a worthwhile opportunity, I'd do so on Lance Stephenson. Yes, he's a cancer but Zen has redeemed/wrangled similar players (Dennis Rodman) before. Needless to say, he's a knucklehead but it doesn't mean that they can't contribute positively to a winning team (see Rasheed Wallace and more recently, Hassan Whiteside). And given Stephenson's success with running elements of the triangle and the triangle outright with Brian Shaw in Indy, I'd be tempted to roll the dice on him. Like with Jennings, he is an expirer so the worse that can happen is that he doesn't work out and is cut before the end of the season. Best case scenario? We get the guy that was the best player in that Heat-Pacers conference finals that is a nightly triple double threat and elite defender within the confines of our system.
That being said, I really think that all it'd take to get Lance here is Calderon, Early and Seraphin. The Clippers improve their bench, while we get to consolidate our own and free up cap space in the process. I'd bring Stephenson off the bench and allow him to backup the SF and SG as the primary ballhandler, which will allow him to get the 30 minutes he needs to be effective.
I worry about Lance as a personality, but as a talent I think he'd be a great fit. That big, physical pressence at the 2 or 3 that can score, defend, rebound, make plays. I think it'd be a great fit. Not sure he fits with the team. After Indiana, I'd have been willing to take a flier. After Charlotte... sure. But now with the Clippers... that's three teams that have soured on him in like 18 months. I'd be worried.
Though, again, talent-wise, I think he'd be a perfect fit.
As far as personalities, I think Nic Batum brings a lot of the same capabilities on the floor, perhaps better overall... and he's more of a team approach guy. I think he'd fit better, personality-wise.
If anyone read Phils book, the part about Rodman and how they dealt with him was interesting.
The thing is they bought him onto a team that had a winning culture and firm leadership in layers. They let Dennis get away with some stuff largely because they were winning. When he tested their resolve the players dealt with it.
At some point he and Jordan talked it out, smoked cigars and he was just fine for the most part after that.
The knicks don't have this yet. Lance is also from NYC and sometimes that brings extra baggage as well.
We have a young coach, young role players and our best player is not a strong team leader. Bringing in Lance Stephanson or any malcontented player
is not a good idea at this time. In the future perhaps.
NY should go for Noah or Gibson. NOt sure how they can get either of them but Noah would be awesome in the triangle. Great passing big, defender and rebounder.
I love Gibson too. Hard working player. They dont fit in Hoiberg's system.
(edit) - I know they need a G, so could Brooks or Hinrich be useful as throw-ins?
Nalod wrote:If anyone read Phils book, the part about Rodman and how they dealt with him was interesting.The thing is they bought him onto a team that had a winning culture and firm leadership in layers. They let Dennis get away with some stuff largely because they were winning. When he tested their resolve the players dealt with it.
At some point he and Jordan talked it out, smoked cigars and he was just fine for the most part after that.
The knicks don't have this yet. Lance is also from NYC and sometimes that brings extra baggage as well.
We have a young coach, young role players and our best player is not a strong team leader. Bringing in Lance Stephanson or any malcontented player
is not a good idea at this time. In the future perhaps.
Yeah, we don't have a leader on this team. Barkley wasn't wrong to try to get Melo to lead. You can see Melo trying it on and trying to become a little more of a leader by the things he says in practice and after the games. And leading by example by asking the coaching staff to point out his defensive lapses and trying harder on D and all that. Baby steps.
But I agree, Lance would rock a fragile eco system a little too much right now.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:NY should go for Noah or Gibson. NOt sure how they can get either of them but Noah would be awesome in the triangle. Great passing big, defender and rebounder. I love Gibson too. Hard working player. They dont fit in Hoiberg's system.
Noah for one half season rental? His midrange shot is suspect and no big in the system can be without that. He is playing badly and energy is off.
No thanks.
He can sign here in the summer for market adjusted price without trade of the powers that be love him. Gibson is good. WE have seraphin and O'Quinn. Do we really need him? who do we trade for him?
Its nice to say "Yeah, lets get him" but Im not giving up on Grant so fast. They dumping him? I doubt it.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:NY should go for Noah or Gibson. NOt sure how they can get either of them but Noah would be awesome in the triangle. Great passing big, defender and rebounder. I love Gibson too. Hard working player. They dont fit in Hoiberg's system.
(edit) - I know they need a G, so could Brooks or Hinrich be useful as throw-ins?
Doubt we could get him before he's a FA in the summer, but I agree Noah would be a FANTASTIC fit. I would sign him and maybe try to move ROLO in the summer. Noah's passing next to KP and Melo in the Triangle? Now THAT would be a fit.
What's more, I could totally see Noah being ready to leave Chicago at this point. He seems deeply frustrated about coming off the bench. Something seems off with that Chicago team. They seem like they should be the second best team in the East hands down - or even the best team, talentwise, especially while Kyrie Irving is out. Something is up in Chicago. I could see Noah leaving. He's also a NY guy.
We'd still need a PG, but maybe if they can open up some room they could sign a guy like Greivis Vasquez (I have no idea how much Vasquez would go for in this market.)
But if somehow we could get:
Vasquez / Grant
Afflalo / Galloway
Melo / Lance
KP / DWill
Noah / KOQ
I'd be very very happy with that for year 2 of the KP experiment. Would still like to add some quality at the PG and a 3 and D guy at the 2/3.
Greivis Vasquez... thats a name that keeps jumping out at me. Ron Harper part II
fishmike wrote:Greivis Vasquez... thats a name that keeps jumping out at me. Ron Harper part II
Yeah, I really like him for the Triangle. He runs a fair amount of pick and roll, but I could see him doing well in the Triangle.
I would think the Knicks could get him for $8-9M... that probably means $10M per year in this market... or $12M.
But he's definitely a name I hope they pursue next summer.
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Greivis Vasquez... thats a name that keeps jumping out at me. Ron Harper part II
Yeah, I really like him for the Triangle. He runs a fair amount of pick and roll, but I could see him doing well in the Triangle.
I would think the Knicks could get him for $8-9M... that probably means $10M per year in this market... or $12M.
But he's definitely a name I hope they pursue next summer.
wow! his stats look terrible.
fishmike wrote:Greivis Vasquez... thats a name that keeps jumping out at me. Ron Harper part II
Grievance Vasquez. A taller Calderon part II and he isnt nearly as good as Jose was at his age. I would not invest those type of $ in him
meloanyk wrote:fishmike wrote:Greivis Vasquez... thats a name that keeps jumping out at me. Ron Harper part II
Grievance Vasquez. A taller Calderon part II and he isnt nearly as good as Jose was at his age. I would not invest those type of $ in him
Same, although I have not really seen much of him. Why not try for Batum?
martin wrote:meloanyk wrote:fishmike wrote:Greivis Vasquez... thats a name that keeps jumping out at me. Ron Harper part II
Grievance Vasquez. A taller Calderon part II and he isnt nearly as good as Jose was at his age. I would not invest those type of $ in him
Same, although I have not really seen much of him. Why not try for Batum?
He always played really well when I watched him with Toronto. I think he would be a good pick up.
