Knicks · Is it safe to say that our success relegates to KO & Williams??? (page 1)
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????
Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????
Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
nixluva wrote:While I like what both players bring, it's really about MELO, KP and Afflalo plus LT and Gallo. After them then you get to the contributions of DWill and KOQ.
I agree. Those have been our 5 most important players on both sides of the ball.
bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Don't know what that means.
bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Don't know what that means.
I meant if KO and Williams were to play in the games they were recorded as DNPs, perhaps we would have won
Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Don't know what that means.
I meant if KO and Williams were to play in the games they were recorded as DNPs, perhaps we would have won
Or lost.
bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Don't know what that means.
I meant if KO and Williams were to play in the games they were recorded as DNPs, perhaps we would have won
Or lost.
With this dudes on the floor, our transition offense just look superb. For a brief stint, the two were on the floor with Carmelo and KP. I saw one instance where Williams threw an alley oil to Carmelo, which could be a hallmark play if those two are allowed to play together. That lineup gives us length and athleticism; specifically if the coaching staff can find ways to have AFFLALO on the floor at the same time. Before you say who will be on the ball as PG, I elect to have the ball in Carmelo's hands
Ira wrote:O'Quinn is a good all around backup big man. He rebounds, plays d, has a decent shot, but most importantly, he plays pretty smart. After KP, O'Quinn is the big I like to see on the floor.
I think the coaching staff has finally realized that; it is either that or Phil instructed them to use KO a lot more then before.
Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Don't know what that means.
I meant if KO and Williams were to play in the games they were recorded as DNPs, perhaps we would have won
Or lost.
With this dudes on the floor, our transition offense just look superb. For a brief stint, the two were on the floor with Carmelo and KP. I saw one instance where Williams threw an alley oil to Carmelo, which could be a hallmark play if those two are allowed to play together. That lineup gives us length and athleticism; specifically if the coaching staff can find ways to have AFFLALO on the floor at the same time. Before you say who will be on the ball as PG, I elect to have the ball in Carmelo's hands
They can and have done good things. You're remembering those. They can and have been terrible too, you aren't remembering those times.
This is called confirmation bias. You have a particular theory, so you remember and weight their good games as confirmation of your theory.
You said is it safe to assume. It is not. Now understand I'm not saying your wrong, I'm only saying there isn't enough evidence to prove your theory. They've had as many games where they weren't good in 15+ mins as bad.
The whole premise is biased too. They're going to record 15+ mins WHEN they're having good games in the first 14 mins. The games in which thy don't get 15+, it's possible they were awful in the first 14 or less.
Your theory stipulates that Fisher just has to play through the bad first 14 mins and let them keep playing and that's where the theory falters.
It is MORE likely the Knicks are better when DWill and KO play a GOOD 15+. That makes perfect sense. Good a good 30 mins from your bench, that's always a positive.
It's getting the good play that's not automatic with minutes.
bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Don't know what that means.
I meant if KO and Williams were to play in the games they were recorded as DNPs, perhaps we would have won
Or lost.
With this dudes on the floor, our transition offense just look superb. For a brief stint, the two were on the floor with Carmelo and KP. I saw one instance where Williams threw an alley oil to Carmelo, which could be a hallmark play if those two are allowed to play together. That lineup gives us length and athleticism; specifically if the coaching staff can find ways to have AFFLALO on the floor at the same time. Before you say who will be on the ball as PG, I elect to have the ball in Carmelo's hands
They can and have done good things. You're remembering those. They can and have been terrible too, you aren't remembering those times.
This is called confirmation bias. You have a particular theory, so you remember and weight their good games as confirmation of your theory.
You said is it safe to assume. It is not. Now understand I'm not saying your wrong, I'm only saying there isn't enough evidence to prove your theory. They've had as many games where they weren't good in 15+ mins as bad.
The whole premise is biased too. They're going to record 15+ mins WHEN they're having good games in the first 14 mins. The games in which thy don't get 15+, it's possible they were awful in the first 14 or less.
Your theory stipulates that Fisher just has to play through the bad first 14 mins and let them keep playing and that's where the theory falters.
It is MORE likely the Knicks are better when DWill and KO play a GOOD 15+. That makes perfect sense. Good a good 30 mins from your bench, that's always a positive.
It's getting the good play that's not automatic with minutes.
My rational remains simply remains the same: play these dudes for 5 straight games at 15+ minutes per game and use their production or lack their off to determine whether or not they deserve a permanent spot in the rotation. From what I have seen thus far, the numbers prove that they can be impactful players if used with the correct combination. It is not simply give them minutes with scrubs and judge them, let them play with three of the starters what contribution we can get out of them.
My favorite line up with this dude is:
Carmelo as point Forward, Afflalo, Williams, KP, KO
CARMELO point Forward, Williams, Lance, KP, and KO
For those of you who might want to kill me for those lineups, please tell me what they are lacking.
Those two lineups would be by far our most agile, athletic, well balanced we can throw out there. All 5 guys can defend, attack, score, and most of all handle the ball
Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Don't know what that means.
I meant if KO and Williams were to play in the games they were recorded as DNPs, perhaps we would have won
Or lost.
With this dudes on the floor, our transition offense just look superb. For a brief stint, the two were on the floor with Carmelo and KP. I saw one instance where Williams threw an alley oil to Carmelo, which could be a hallmark play if those two are allowed to play together. That lineup gives us length and athleticism; specifically if the coaching staff can find ways to have AFFLALO on the floor at the same time. Before you say who will be on the ball as PG, I elect to have the ball in Carmelo's hands
They can and have done good things. You're remembering those. They can and have been terrible too, you aren't remembering those times.
This is called confirmation bias. You have a particular theory, so you remember and weight their good games as confirmation of your theory.
You said is it safe to assume. It is not. Now understand I'm not saying your wrong, I'm only saying there isn't enough evidence to prove your theory. They've had as many games where they weren't good in 15+ mins as bad.
The whole premise is biased too. They're going to record 15+ mins WHEN they're having good games in the first 14 mins. The games in which thy don't get 15+, it's possible they were awful in the first 14 or less.
Your theory stipulates that Fisher just has to play through the bad first 14 mins and let them keep playing and that's where the theory falters.
It is MORE likely the Knicks are better when DWill and KO play a GOOD 15+. That makes perfect sense. Good a good 30 mins from your bench, that's always a positive.
It's getting the good play that's not automatic with minutes.
My rational remains simply remains the same: play these dudes for 5 straight games at 15+ minutes per game and use their production or lack their off to determine whether or not they deserve a permanent spot in the rotation.
That's fine. But that isn't the same thing as your topic header, which assumes it is a safe assumption what you hope and think will occur actually will.
I'm NOT saying it won't. I'm saying it is not a safe assumption it will. There's a difference.
From what I have seen thus far, the numbers prove that they can be impactful players if used with the correct combination.
I don't know if any numbers that prove that. There are numbers that suggest they have the ability to have good games, but NBA consistency is perhaps THE thing that separates the good players from the rest.
Dwill is a 5th year (?) player? There is no combination to unlock consistent play from him. It will come entirely FROM him.
There are signs, but he has to make it happen.
Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:bigbasketballs wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????Knicks are 7-6 when Williams plays 15+
KO 5-6.
Knicks are 13-14.
Not that convincing an argument.
12 & 12= 50/50. The 13 an 14 might have looked better with the aforementioned
Don't know what that means.
I meant if KO and Williams were to play in the games they were recorded as DNPs, perhaps we would have won
Or lost.
With this dudes on the floor, our transition offense just look superb. For a brief stint, the two were on the floor with Carmelo and KP. I saw one instance where Williams threw an alley oil to Carmelo, which could be a hallmark play if those two are allowed to play together. That lineup gives us length and athleticism; specifically if the coaching staff can find ways to have AFFLALO on the floor at the same time. Before you say who will be on the ball as PG, I elect to have the ball in Carmelo's hands
They can and have done good things. You're remembering those. They can and have been terrible too, you aren't remembering those times.
This is called confirmation bias. You have a particular theory, so you remember and weight their good games as confirmation of your theory.
You said is it safe to assume. It is not. Now understand I'm not saying your wrong, I'm only saying there isn't enough evidence to prove your theory. They've had as many games where they weren't good in 15+ mins as bad.
The whole premise is biased too. They're going to record 15+ mins WHEN they're having good games in the first 14 mins. The games in which thy don't get 15+, it's possible they were awful in the first 14 or less.
Your theory stipulates that Fisher just has to play through the bad first 14 mins and let them keep playing and that's where the theory falters.
It is MORE likely the Knicks are better when DWill and KO play a GOOD 15+. That makes perfect sense. Good a good 30 mins from your bench, that's always a positive.
It's getting the good play that's not automatic with minutes.
My rational remains simply remains the same: play these dudes for 5 straight games at 15+ minutes per game and use their production or lack their off to determine whether or not they deserve a permanent spot in the rotation. From what I have seen thus far, the numbers prove that they can be impactful players if used with the correct combination. It is not simply give them minutes with scrubs and judge them, let them play with three of the starters what contribution we can get out of them.
My favorite line up with this dude is:
Carmelo as point Forward, Afflalo, Williams, KP, KO
CARMELO point Forward, Williams, Lance, KP, and KOFor those of you who might want to kill me for those lineups, please tell me what they are lacking.
Those two lineups would be by far our most agile, athletic, well balanced we can throw out there. All 5 guys can defend, attack, score, and most of all handle the ball
KP and KO are not good on the court together.
Rebounding was really bad.
KO taking a lot of space but is slow so KP cannot get to the spot to rebound and block shots.
KO is not starting material in general. Starting Centers will eat him alive.
KP, Melo, Lance, AA and Calderon is our best lineup for stretches.
But KP cannot play center for long and not at all with some mutcups.
May be this is the lineup of the future with some better guard that Calderon.
But we do not have this dude yet.
Knicks1969 wrote:When these two dudes are given minutes (At least 15+ minutes) they produce. And 90% of the time we end up in the win column. I know some will trash the game Vs. the 76ers, because the team is not playing well all season, but if we were to lose, the feeling would be different.
Do u all now believe that Williams and KO MUST play a bigger role for the Knicks to be a success????
safe to say a lot of things
markvmc wrote:I think it's safe to assume that our recent success is down to playing three poor teams on the bounce. Next twenty games or so are going to be tough, with lots of games against teams with winning records. Let's see how things go against better teams.
Basketball is all about confidence and momentum.
For example....Sometimes you have to play against scrubs to gain confidence for the good teams. Its the same way when you play ball in the gym. Play against scrubs, you hit everything. Next time you play against good players, you're going in with more confidence.
I think Melo and AA are on their game now...and healthy. We are as good as those two guys, which are our most consistent players. If both have a solid game, regardless who we play, we have a chance to win.
blkexec wrote:markvmc wrote:I think it's safe to assume that our recent success is down to playing three poor teams on the bounce. Next twenty games or so are going to be tough, with lots of games against teams with winning records. Let's see how things go against better teams.Basketball is all about confidence and momentum.
For example....Sometimes you have to play against scrubs to gain confidence for the good teams. Its the same way when you play ball in the gym. Play against scrubs, you hit everything. Next time you play against good players, you're going in with more confidence.
I think Melo and AA are on their game now...and healthy. We are as good as those two guys, which are our most consistent players. If both have a solid game, regardless who we play, we have a chance to win.
I don't know, I would have to include at least a couple of our bench guys in that as well. If everyone coming off our bench is playing like crap in any game, we have a really good chance of losing regardless of how good Melo or AA are.
I don't know about you all, but I believe it is now time to look to trade for a PG. I wouldn't mind keeping Calderon around, but knowing that this organization is always going to view and play him as a PG, it will be better to totally get rid of this dude. I must say the Chandler trade is really looking worse and worse. For those of you who often claim that we are not playing for a championship this year, please note, aside from the 76rs, all the teams around the league play for a chance to make it to the finals.