Knicks · We will never win Playing at this pace or this style (page 1)
For the second yr in a row were dead last in drives to the basket, we don't shoot enough 3's and were dead last in fastbreak points.
Like the philosophy has got to change, you can bring in whatever player you want, all they're going to do is adapt to their surroundings.
Until phil, Fisher and his staff come to grips with reality, and adjust to the times and skills of certain players, we will continue to be mediocre, will continue to drive down the value of our players, and we'll never have a true identity.
When your dead last in drives to the basket, that's not a player or talent issue, that's a system issue.
When your dead last in fast break points, that's not a lack of talent, that's a direction you chose not to go in, we don't want to run, we want to get into our offense, that the mentality the players have.
The Knicks are vastly improved. That's the first thing. Second is they have added a draft pick who looks like a franchise player in the making. Third they have cap space to keep improving and tradable players.
It's not ideal but it's not that bad. Considering where they were a year ago at this time the franchise has made major move in the right direction without adding a superstar or even a top flight all star.
You look at the Wolves, Lakers and Sixers who were as bad as we were last season and drafted around the same place - they all have worse records than us. It's also about talent. It will take some time to get the talent level up there to be a 50 win team that can compete for a top 5 playoff spot.
This is the healthiest this roster has been in recent memory. You would have to go back a ways since the last time we had a mostly healthy roster. Thats why its so frustrating to see the lack of continuity. Past seasons, this team was the walking wounded, so lots of different looks were to be expected. Time for Fisher to start trusting his team. He makes changes when none are needed, has to give the team a chance to gel. Hard to do that when everything is in constant flux with all the different looks from game to game.
franco12 wrote:we're better than our record. I am starting to believe our 'system' is holding us back.
How so? Where is the elite talent on our roster?
smackeddog wrote:franco12 wrote:we're better than our record. I am starting to believe our 'system' is holding us back.How so? Where is the elite talent on our roster?
Where is the elite talent on boston, orlando, atlanta,detroit. Melo is better than anyone on any of those teams.
The difference ain't the talent, its the coaching and the system. When fisher said he has to put in Sasha because of his familiarity with the triangle sytem and not because he's better than grant, you know where the problem lies.
KP, afflalo, calderone,grant,lopez,seraphin, Lance, all came from winning situations a yr ago, now a few months later they all suck and cant shoot.
When are you people going to realize the heart of the problem
When Shaq went to MDA's 7 seconds or less system, imagine if mda said, hey shaq im going to need you to starting hitting 3s, would shaq be consider a bum, or wiuld MDA be consider and idiot for even asking him.
People think we don't use screens but in truth they are a part of the offense. It's on the guard to call for and make use of the Drag Screen. Jose and Gallo don't really want to use them cuz they aren't really aggressive penetrating guards. Afflalo wants to post up or catch and shoot. Jerian as we discussed lacks the shooting ability to make teams pay for backing off of him off screens.
knicks1248 wrote:smackeddog wrote:franco12 wrote:we're better than our record. I am starting to believe our 'system' is holding us back.How so? Where is the elite talent on our roster?
Where is the elite talent on boston, orlando, atlanta,detroit. Melo is better than anyone on any of those teams.
The difference ain't the talent, its the coaching and the system. When fisher said he has to put in Sasha because of his familiarity with the triangle sytem and not because he's better than grant, you know where the problem lies.
KP, afflalo, calderone,grant,lopez,seraphin, Lance, all came from winning situations a yr ago, now a few months later they all suck and cant shoot.
When are you people going to realize the heart of the problem
When Shaq went to MDA's 7 seconds or less system, imagine if mda said, hey shaq im going to need you to starting hitting 3s, would shaq be consider a bum, or wiuld MDA be consider and idiot for even asking him.
Preach brother
knicks1248 wrote:Every time i listen to the opposing team's players after the game, they all have indicated that we play slow, and they kind of knew everything the knicks wanted to do.
For the second yr in a row were dead last in drives to the basket, we don't shoot enough 3's and were dead last in fastbreak points.Like the philosophy has got to change, you can bring in whatever player you want, all they're going to do is adapt to their surroundings.
Until phil, Fisher and his staff come to grips with reality, and adjust to the times and skills of certain players, we will continue to be mediocre, will continue to drive down the value of our players, and we'll never have a true identity.
When your dead last in drives to the basket, that's not a player or talent issue, that's a system issue.
When your dead last in fast break points, that's not a lack of talent, that's a direction you chose not to go in, we don't want to run, we want to get into our offense, that the mentality the players have.
[/I swear the Knicks is by far the slowest team in the league. Even slower then Memphis. Crowder of the Celts just said that he knew that going into the game it would have been easy to defend Carmelo, because he knew exactly where he was going to catch the ball in this "grandpa" skim which is coached by our "guru" Fisher. After this many games, you would think this Oach would at least tinker with the starting lineup to speed up the tempo by either play Jose off the ball or by replacing him totally, but no. He is as slow to react as the TEMPO he is coaching:::)))). What a freaking joke!
knicks1248 wrote:smackeddog wrote:franco12 wrote:we're better than our record. I am starting to believe our 'system' is holding us back.How so? Where is the elite talent on our roster?
Where is the elite talent on boston, orlando, atlanta,detroit. Melo is better than anyone on any of those teams.
The difference ain't the talent, its the coaching and the system. When fisher said he has to put in Sasha because of his familiarity with the triangle sytem and not because he's better than grant, you know where the problem lies.
KP, afflalo, calderone,grant,lopez,seraphin, Lance, all came from winning situations a yr ago, now a few months later they all suck and cant shoot.
When are you people going to realize the heart of the problem
When Shaq went to MDA's 7 seconds or less system, imagine if mda said, hey shaq im going to need you to starting hitting 3s, would shaq be consider a bum, or wiuld MDA be consider and idiot for even asking him.
Really man, you think that holds? Melo is an talent for sure, but also fairly dominant on only one side of the court.
Atlanta's whole starting lineup were allstars last year. Detroit got Drummond, RJackson and better all-around balance. Same with Boston and Orlando, depth and balance.
martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:smackeddog wrote:franco12 wrote:we're better than our record. I am starting to believe our 'system' is holding us back.How so? Where is the elite talent on our roster?
Where is the elite talent on boston, orlando, atlanta,detroit. Melo is better than anyone on any of those teams.
The difference ain't the talent, its the coaching and the system. When fisher said he has to put in Sasha because of his familiarity with the triangle sytem and not because he's better than grant, you know where the problem lies.
KP, afflalo, calderone,grant,lopez,seraphin, Lance, all came from winning situations a yr ago, now a few months later they all suck and cant shoot.
When are you people going to realize the heart of the problem
When Shaq went to MDA's 7 seconds or less system, imagine if mda said, hey shaq im going to need you to starting hitting 3s, would shaq be consider a bum, or wiuld MDA be consider and idiot for even asking him.
Really man, you think that holds? Melo is an talent for sure, but also fairly dominant on only one side of the court.
Atlanta's whole starting lineup were allstars last year. Detroit got Drummond, RJackson and better all-around balance. Same with Boston and Orlando, depth and balance.
Most of the teams ahead of the the Knicks have been at this longer. This is year one of this rebuild and clearly Phil still has a LOT of work to do. He likely now sees that the roster is STILL NOT BALANCED. So he can focus more clearly on what is needed to improve the roster. We now have a much better idea of what is lacking and what is working. As bad as it feels it's actually a GOOD THING. Clarity is a good thing for a GM. The team is set at Forward and Center. The total focus is on the guards now IMO.
THere is not a player on their bench that has ever been an important part of a good team.
This team has some potential but very few players with a history of being productive players.
OldFan wrote:The knicks have two starting caliber players and no starting caliber guards.THere is not a player on their bench that has ever been an important part of a good team.
This team has some potential but very few players with a history of being productive players.
Good coaches usually can find ways to squeeze talents out of untalented players. Why isn't Fisher at least try to change the starting 5 by now??????? Do something different for once!
Knicks1969 wrote:OldFan wrote:The knicks have two starting caliber players and no starting caliber guards.THere is not a player on their bench that has ever been an important part of a good team.
This team has some potential but very few players with a history of being productive players.
Good coaches usually can find ways to squeeze talents out of untalented players. Why isn't Fisher at least try to change the starting 5 by now??????? Do something different for once!
The only starter that should come out is Jose, but we have no pg ready to go. The issue is the team itself doesnt have enough quality. We're lucky to have the wins we do, it's most due to effort.
martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:smackeddog wrote:franco12 wrote:we're better than our record. I am starting to believe our 'system' is holding us back.How so? Where is the elite talent on our roster?
Where is the elite talent on boston, orlando, atlanta,detroit. Melo is better than anyone on any of those teams.
The difference ain't the talent, its the coaching and the system. When fisher said he has to put in Sasha because of his familiarity with the triangle sytem and not because he's better than grant, you know where the problem lies.
KP, afflalo, calderone,grant,lopez,seraphin, Lance, all came from winning situations a yr ago, now a few months later they all suck and cant shoot.
When are you people going to realize the heart of the problem
When Shaq went to MDA's 7 seconds or less system, imagine if mda said, hey shaq im going to need you to starting hitting 3s, would shaq be consider a bum, or wiuld MDA be consider and idiot for even asking him.
Really man, you think that holds? Melo is an talent for sure, but also fairly dominant on only one side of the court.
Atlanta's whole starting lineup were allstars last year. Detroit got Drummond, RJackson and better all-around balance. Same with Boston and Orlando, depth and balance.
Think about it, everyone of the players that were on atlanta that went to the all star game had been in the league for several yrs, what made them above average last season, was the coach, the teams record at the time and the system, milsap and korver were bench players the year before.
You want talk about depth and balance, dude we were pumping our chest out talking about how deep we are 6 weeks ago, all of a sudden were not so deep.
Drummond is shinning in SVG system just like Howard did, and howard hasn't been the same since SVG in orlando.
Listen Martin, i respect your view on a lot of different issues, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me that this system isn't hindering a lot of our players skill set.
How exactly is a player going to be able to penetrate when the center is in the paint majority of the time, and every one else is position below the 3 point line waiting to take a mid range jumper,where's the spacing.
Fisher said it himself that the problem is the system. Damn near every player that has played under fisher, their shooting % has dramatically drop, why, because mid range shots have never been consider high percentage shots.
Knicks1969 wrote:OldFan wrote:The knicks have two starting caliber players and no starting caliber guards.THere is not a player on their bench that has ever been an important part of a good team.
This team has some potential but very few players with a history of being productive players.
Good coaches usually can find ways to squeeze talents out of untalented players. Why isn't Fisher at least try to change the starting 5 by now??????? Do something different for once!
The same players come in and run the same plays, take the same shots, no matter when they play.
When the bench came in they where changing the pace and the style 6 weeks ago, once that stop, they all started playing at the same pace, except the bench doesn't have melo out there and double teams are not needed. So they are forever getting into a triangle set, where after the initial pass, they get stuck, force a bad pass, or take another mid range low percentage shot.
Thats why it was so important for the bench to keep the pace uptempo, because 1)fisher take his 3 best scorers out at the same time, melo, kp, and AA, 2) there the fastest unit we have, but we don't utilize the skills they have, were forcing squares into circles
knicks1248 wrote:martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:smackeddog wrote:franco12 wrote:we're better than our record. I am starting to believe our 'system' is holding us back.How so? Where is the elite talent on our roster?
Where is the elite talent on boston, orlando, atlanta,detroit. Melo is better than anyone on any of those teams.
The difference ain't the talent, its the coaching and the system. When fisher said he has to put in Sasha because of his familiarity with the triangle sytem and not because he's better than grant, you know where the problem lies.
KP, afflalo, calderone,grant,lopez,seraphin, Lance, all came from winning situations a yr ago, now a few months later they all suck and cant shoot.
When are you people going to realize the heart of the problem
When Shaq went to MDA's 7 seconds or less system, imagine if mda said, hey shaq im going to need you to starting hitting 3s, would shaq be consider a bum, or wiuld MDA be consider and idiot for even asking him.
Really man, you think that holds? Melo is an talent for sure, but also fairly dominant on only one side of the court.
Atlanta's whole starting lineup were allstars last year. Detroit got Drummond, RJackson and better all-around balance. Same with Boston and Orlando, depth and balance.
Think about it, everyone of the players that were on atlanta that went to the all star game had been in the league for several yrs, what made them above average last season, was the coach, the teams record at the time and the system, milsap and korver were bench players the year before.
You want talk about depth and balance, dude we were pumping our chest out talking about how deep we are 6 weeks ago, all of a sudden were not so deep.
Drummond is shinning in SVG system just like Howard did, and howard hasn't been the same since SVG in orlando.
Listen Martin, i respect your view on a lot of different issues, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me that this system isn't hindering a lot of our players skill set.
How exactly is a player going to be able to penetrate when the center is in the paint majority of the time, and every one else is position below the 3 point line waiting to take a mid range jumper,where's the spacing.
Fisher said it himself that the problem is the system. Damn near every player that has played under fisher, their shooting % has dramatically drop, why, because mid range shots have never been consider high percentage shots.
You keeps saying these things without any real understanding of the offense!!! Many possessions start with a drag screen at the top and with an overload on one side of the paint, which leaves a wide open side of the floor in which to attack.
The PG is capable of pulling a big out of the post if he calls for it. Also as the team is coming down the court if a PG pushes the ball he can get into the paint if he wishes and has the talent to do so, before the team sets up in the Triangle.
In almost every single possession the ball is swung to the weak side where they have a 2 man game in the Pinch Post. There is literally NOTHING stopping a guard from taking charge when he has the ball and making plays. This isn't an offense where you have a ball dominant PG but you still have many chances for a guard to make something happen when he gets the ball.
There are also other actions that the team can get into such as the Blind Pig which isn't about feeding the post and in fact the team runs this but most don't even realize that it's part of the Triangle since it doesn't look like they are trying to use the Side Triangle. It's just one of many options the team has but it still requires guards that can make use of their dribbling skills to get by their man after getting the ball off a Dribble Hand Off.