Knicks · Game Thread: Knicks @ Bulls...lets start the new year off right! (page 17)

newyorker4ever wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:I'm sorry I think we are better wish dwill played more he gets to the line at will

He was missing layups and his defense is horrible.

This is why D.Will was available in free agency. Same goes for all the guys we picked up. They all come with baggage. D.Will has never been a solid defender.....But our talent is so low, he looking like he should get more playing time.....When in fact, we should continue to upgrade the talent around him. Thats the most glaring need on this roster. Overall talent and sharpening up coaching strategies and subs.

When Phil stripped this team of talent, he really started from the bottom. And it's clear he never replaced the talent we had.....just improved the character. And character can only take you so far......This team needs better star players to carry the load......Melo can't do it by himself. KP and company isn't helping Melo from getting double teamed. The triangle isn't helping either.....

Guess thats progress....lol.

knickscity wrote:Gotta say this Knick regime is really outdoing themselves. Wort season in franchise history to worst quarter in franchise history.

Guess thats progress....lol.

They are making progress. Just a few more days and hopefully they will start to bring in some help. They can't keep going like this. This roster is way out of balance right now. Too much dead weight too.

Once they make a few upgrades then they can stop playing the guys that aren't really contributing.

dk7th wrote:it was that lineup with calderon, williams, seraphin, etc. that killed the knicks tonight. fisher trying to preserve the starters' legs but it backfired big time.

I agree but I'm not sure what Fisher's supposed to do with that. Fisher found an effective lineup that came back and got the lead, but the reserves killed the team when Fisher had to actually rest guys between the third and fourth quarter. The team has an imbalance of talent and doesn't have enough reliable players. Too many players are effective sometimes.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:Gotta say this Knick regime is really outdoing themselves. Wort season in franchise history to worst quarter in franchise history.

Guess thats progress....lol.

They are making progress. Just a few more days and hopefully they will start to bring in some help. They can't keep going like this. This roster is way out of balance right now. Too much dead weight too.

Once they make a few upgrades then they can stop playing the guys that aren't really contributing.

knicks are on pace to miss the playoffs. many predicted this. i don't know who is out there that would be upgrades so far as the proper prerequisites for a jackson-built team. afflalo is 8 million and looks like he's been overpaid even with the salary cap increase. calderon is grossly overpaid and who is going to want him this season?

i don't see any players that are going to help. and no draft picks.

GustavBahler wrote:Have to give Calderon credit for stepping up his game. Again, Fisher threw out a different look and it cost us. Even Wally was pointing it out in the post game.

players like calderon thrive in epic losses. fool's gold player in the extreme.

y2zipper wrote:

dk7th wrote:it was that lineup with calderon, williams, seraphin, etc. that killed the knicks tonight. fisher trying to preserve the starters' legs but it backfired big time.

I agree but I'm not sure what Fisher's supposed to do with that. Fisher found an effective lineup that came back and got the lead, but the reserves killed the team when Fisher had to actually rest guys between the third and fourth quarter. The team has an imbalance of talent and doesn't have enough reliable players. Too many players are effective sometimes.

there is in fact nothing to be done. the talent level is not there this season, and besides that fisher and company are trying to institute a style of play and a system that is going to take more time than most fans can tolerate. we still have several players who are not ideal fits in the triangle and they may never get it.

afflalo, grant, williams, seraphin, come to mind. lopez is not there either. i don't like any of the suggestions of who is out there in a possible trade. all sideways crap to me.

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Have to give Calderon credit for stepping up his game. Again, Fisher threw out a different look and it cost us. Even Wally was pointing it out in the post game.

players like calderon thrive in epic losses. fool's gold player in the extreme.

We won the last game with Calderon thriving. Calderon has looked for his shot more lately, hitting jumpers, and actually trying to go to the rim more often. Not going to complain about what most posters have been hoping Calderon does more all season. Hopefully its a trend.

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Have to give Calderon credit for stepping up his game. Again, Fisher threw out a different look and it cost us. Even Wally was pointing it out in the post game.

players like calderon thrive in epic losses. fool's gold player in the extreme.

We won the last game with Calderon thriving. Calderon has looked for his shot more lately, hitting jumpers, and actually trying to go to the rim more often. Not going to complain about what most posters have been hoping Calderon does more all season. Hopefully its a trend.

i'll have to take your word for it because i missed that game. but his defense....

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Have to give Calderon credit for stepping up his game. Again, Fisher threw out a different look and it cost us. Even Wally was pointing it out in the post game.

players like calderon thrive in epic losses. fool's gold player in the extreme.

We won the last game with Calderon thriving. Calderon has looked for his shot more lately, hitting jumpers, and actually trying to go to the rim more often. Not going to complain about what most posters have been hoping Calderon does more all season. Hopefully its a trend.

i'll have to take your word for it because i missed that game. but his defense....

Not much can be done in that dept. If Calderon is hitting his shots, playing more aggressively, at least it helps negate what he doesn't offer on defense. Definitely need an upgrade at PG, but if Calderon can keep this up, it can help keep the team competitive enough to make a run at the playoffs. That is if Fisher can decide on a rotation.

dk7th wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

dk7th wrote:it was that lineup with calderon, williams, seraphin, etc. that killed the knicks tonight. fisher trying to preserve the starters' legs but it backfired big time.

I agree but I'm not sure what Fisher's supposed to do with that. Fisher found an effective lineup that came back and got the lead, but the reserves killed the team when Fisher had to actually rest guys between the third and fourth quarter. The team has an imbalance of talent and doesn't have enough reliable players. Too many players are effective sometimes.

there is in fact nothing to be done. the talent level is not there this season, and besides that fisher and company are trying to institute a style of play and a system that is going to take more time than most fans can tolerate. we still have several players who are not ideal fits in the triangle and they may never get it.

afflalo, grant, williams, seraphin, come to mind. lopez is not there either. i don't like any of the suggestions of who is out there in a possible trade. all sideways crap to me.

I think Afflalo and Lopez are rotation-level NBA players, as are Lance Thomas and Kyle O'Quinn and these are good value even if they aren't starters. I'm not a fan of Williams, Calderon or Seraphim either and Grant hasn't done anything but he's still a rookie.

The Knicks have more NBA-level talent than they did last season but the question has always been whether or not Phil could actually bring in the elite talent necessary to make this work and whether fans and Dolan would have the patience to ride this out. So far, Porzingis looks like a hit but the big acquisitions are going to have to come through free agency. The Knicks aren't good enough to do anything outside of compete for a bottom-level playoff spot, and even that hinges on the Knicks being over twice as good as they were last season.

y2zipper wrote:

dk7th wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

dk7th wrote:it was that lineup with calderon, williams, seraphin, etc. that killed the knicks tonight. fisher trying to preserve the starters' legs but it backfired big time.

I agree but I'm not sure what Fisher's supposed to do with that. Fisher found an effective lineup that came back and got the lead, but the reserves killed the team when Fisher had to actually rest guys between the third and fourth quarter. The team has an imbalance of talent and doesn't have enough reliable players. Too many players are effective sometimes.

there is in fact nothing to be done. the talent level is not there this season, and besides that fisher and company are trying to institute a style of play and a system that is going to take more time than most fans can tolerate. we still have several players who are not ideal fits in the triangle and they may never get it.

afflalo, grant, williams, seraphin, come to mind. lopez is not there either. i don't like any of the suggestions of who is out there in a possible trade. all sideways crap to me.

I think Afflalo and Lopez are rotation-level NBA players, as are Lance Thomas and Kyle O'Quinn and these are good value even if they aren't starters. I'm not a fan of Williams, Calderon or Seraphim either and Grant hasn't done anything but he's still a rookie.

The Knicks have more NBA-level talent than they did last season but the question has always been whether or not Phil could actually bring in the elite talent necessary to make this work and whether fans and Dolan would have the patience to ride this out. So far, Porzingis looks like a hit but the big acquisitions are going to have to come through free agency. The Knicks aren't good enough to do anything outside of compete for a bottom-level playoff spot, and even that hinges on the Knicks being over twice as good as they were last season.

in essence i agree with you but what part of a rotation and on what caliber of a team?

we are around 40% of the way through the season. i don't know what szerbiack is talking about when he says the knicks are solid on defense. the knicks are pretty bad defensively, and here is a list of real plus minus http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/... for the main players, notably:

1) afflalo's defensive real plus/minus is ranked 77th among shooting guards at -2.32. this is just awful, even unacceptable. he is hurting the team in this regard. combined with his selfishness with the ball, and it's like having a shorter version of the "old Melo" out there, and in a prime position in the triangle offense too. overall rpm he is ranked 34th. not starting material on a winner or even a 30th-ranked nba team-- based on these numbers he should come off the bench.
2) calderon is ranked 42nd defensively among point guards at -1.53, 27th overall in rpm. he is a starter on a bottom feeder. since the knicks are ranked around 20th, he too should be benched.
3) galloway is defensively ranked 31st among shooting guards at -.56, 21st overall. he should be a starter at point guard on the knicks and remember you don't need conventional point guard skills in the triangle. what you need is an ability to defend and to be able to hit a corner three. galloway gives you both.
3) carmelo defensively is ranked 37th among small forwards, at -.16, which is, relatively speaking, a welcome surprise. overall his rpm is 7th, so this season he's a starter on a winner.
4) lance thomas is defensively ranked 68th among sfs, is a surprisingly bad -1.59, but at least it's better than afflalo. he's ranked 42nd overall this season. based on his defense and his passing skills i would insert him at shooting guard in the starting lineup over afflalo.
5) derrick williams is ranked 80th defensively among pfs and is also negative at -.23, which is not as bad as some might think, but still below average. ranked 47th in rpm among power forwards.
6) lopez is ranked defensively ranked 42nd and is 63rd overall. he should be benched for
7) o'quinn, who is ranked 43rd defensively as a pf (but could be playing center for the knicks based on his passing skills in the post) but more importantly is ranked 29th overall in rpm.

based on these rankings, the team may be in need of a shake up. if i were derek fisher, i would consider playing the following players as many minutes together as possible, perhaps even as starters, based on defensive prowess, passing skills, playing without the ball:

melo
o'quinn
kp6
thomas
galloway

bench would be lopez, afflalo, calderon, williams

dk7th wrote:it was that lineup with calderon, williams, seraphin, etc. that killed the knicks tonight. fisher trying to preserve the starters' legs but it backfired big time.

yup

dk7th wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

dk7th wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

dk7th wrote:it was that lineup with calderon, williams, seraphin, etc. that killed the knicks tonight. fisher trying to preserve the starters' legs but it backfired big time.

I agree but I'm not sure what Fisher's supposed to do with that. Fisher found an effective lineup that came back and got the lead, but the reserves killed the team when Fisher had to actually rest guys between the third and fourth quarter. The team has an imbalance of talent and doesn't have enough reliable players. Too many players are effective sometimes.

there is in fact nothing to be done. the talent level is not there this season, and besides that fisher and company are trying to institute a style of play and a system that is going to take more time than most fans can tolerate. we still have several players who are not ideal fits in the triangle and they may never get it.

afflalo, grant, williams, seraphin, come to mind. lopez is not there either. i don't like any of the suggestions of who is out there in a possible trade. all sideways crap to me.

I think Afflalo and Lopez are rotation-level NBA players, as are Lance Thomas and Kyle O'Quinn and these are good value even if they aren't starters. I'm not a fan of Williams, Calderon or Seraphim either and Grant hasn't done anything but he's still a rookie.

The Knicks have more NBA-level talent than they did last season but the question has always been whether or not Phil could actually bring in the elite talent necessary to make this work and whether fans and Dolan would have the patience to ride this out. So far, Porzingis looks like a hit but the big acquisitions are going to have to come through free agency. The Knicks aren't good enough to do anything outside of compete for a bottom-level playoff spot, and even that hinges on the Knicks being over twice as good as they were last season.

in essence i agree with you but what part of a rotation and on what caliber of a team?

we are around 40% of the way through the season. i don't know what szerbiack is talking about when he says the knicks are solid on defense. the knicks are pretty bad defensively, and here is a list of real plus minus http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/... for the main players, notably:

1) afflalo's defensive real plus/minus is ranked 77th among shooting guards at -2.32. this is just awful, even unacceptable. he is hurting the team in this regard. combined with his selfishness with the ball, and it's like having a shorter version of the "old Melo" out there, and in a prime position in the triangle offense too. overall rpm he is ranked 34th. not starting material on a winner or even a 30th-ranked nba team-- based on these numbers he should come off the bench.
2) calderon is ranked 42nd defensively among point guards at -1.53, 27th overall in rpm. he is a starter on a bottom feeder. since the knicks are ranked around 20th, he too should be benched.
3) galloway is defensively ranked 31st among shooting guards at -.56, 21st overall. he should be a starter at point guard on the knicks and remember you don't need conventional point guard skills in the triangle. what you need is an ability to defend and to be able to hit a corner three. galloway gives you both.
3) carmelo defensively is ranked 37th among small forwards, at -.16, which is, relatively speaking, a welcome surprise. overall his rpm is 7th, so this season he's a starter on a winner.
4) lance thomas is defensively ranked 68th among sfs, is a surprisingly bad -1.59, but at least it's better than afflalo. he's ranked 42nd overall this season. based on his defense and his passing skills i would insert him at shooting guard in the starting lineup over afflalo.
5) derrick williams is ranked 80th defensively among pfs and is also negative at -.23, which is not as bad as some might think, but still below average. ranked 47th in rpm among power forwards.
6) lopez is ranked defensively ranked 42nd and is 63rd overall. he should be benched for
7) o'quinn, who is ranked 43rd defensively as a pf (but could be playing center for the knicks based on his passing skills in the post) but more importantly is ranked 29th overall in rpm.

based on these rankings, the team may be in need of a shake up. if i were derek fisher, i would consider playing the following players as many minutes together as possible, perhaps even as starters, based on defensive prowess, passing skills, playing without the ball:

melo
o'quinn
kp6
thomas
galloway

bench would be lopez, afflalo, calderon, williams

Starters .. Gallo, Lance, Melo, O'Quinn, Rolo
2nd unit Bench .. Calderon, Afflalo, D.Will, Serafin, KP

Kemet wrote:

dk7th wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

dk7th wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

dk7th wrote:it was that lineup with calderon, williams, seraphin, etc. that killed the knicks tonight. fisher trying to preserve the starters' legs but it backfired big time.

I agree but I'm not sure what Fisher's supposed to do with that. Fisher found an effective lineup that came back and got the lead, but the reserves killed the team when Fisher had to actually rest guys between the third and fourth quarter. The team has an imbalance of talent and doesn't have enough reliable players. Too many players are effective sometimes.

there is in fact nothing to be done. the talent level is not there this season, and besides that fisher and company are trying to institute a style of play and a system that is going to take more time than most fans can tolerate. we still have several players who are not ideal fits in the triangle and they may never get it.

afflalo, grant, williams, seraphin, come to mind. lopez is not there either. i don't like any of the suggestions of who is out there in a possible trade. all sideways crap to me.

I think Afflalo and Lopez are rotation-level NBA players, as are Lance Thomas and Kyle O'Quinn and these are good value even if they aren't starters. I'm not a fan of Williams, Calderon or Seraphim either and Grant hasn't done anything but he's still a rookie.

The Knicks have more NBA-level talent than they did last season but the question has always been whether or not Phil could actually bring in the elite talent necessary to make this work and whether fans and Dolan would have the patience to ride this out. So far, Porzingis looks like a hit but the big acquisitions are going to have to come through free agency. The Knicks aren't good enough to do anything outside of compete for a bottom-level playoff spot, and even that hinges on the Knicks being over twice as good as they were last season.

in essence i agree with you but what part of a rotation and on what caliber of a team?

we are around 40% of the way through the season. i don't know what szerbiack is talking about when he says the knicks are solid on defense. the knicks are pretty bad defensively, and here is a list of real plus minus http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/... for the main players, notably:

1) afflalo's defensive real plus/minus is ranked 77th among shooting guards at -2.32. this is just awful, even unacceptable. he is hurting the team in this regard. combined with his selfishness with the ball, and it's like having a shorter version of the "old Melo" out there, and in a prime position in the triangle offense too. overall rpm he is ranked 34th. not starting material on a winner or even a 30th-ranked nba team-- based on these numbers he should come off the bench.
2) calderon is ranked 42nd defensively among point guards at -1.53, 27th overall in rpm. he is a starter on a bottom feeder. since the knicks are ranked around 20th, he too should be benched.
3) galloway is defensively ranked 31st among shooting guards at -.56, 21st overall. he should be a starter at point guard on the knicks and remember you don't need conventional point guard skills in the triangle. what you need is an ability to defend and to be able to hit a corner three. galloway gives you both.
3) carmelo defensively is ranked 37th among small forwards, at -.16, which is, relatively speaking, a welcome surprise. overall his rpm is 7th, so this season he's a starter on a winner.
4) lance thomas is defensively ranked 68th among sfs, is a surprisingly bad -1.59, but at least it's better than afflalo. he's ranked 42nd overall this season. based on his defense and his passing skills i would insert him at shooting guard in the starting lineup over afflalo.
5) derrick williams is ranked 80th defensively among pfs and is also negative at -.23, which is not as bad as some might think, but still below average. ranked 47th in rpm among power forwards.
6) lopez is ranked defensively ranked 42nd and is 63rd overall. he should be benched for
7) o'quinn, who is ranked 43rd defensively as a pf (but could be playing center for the knicks based on his passing skills in the post) but more importantly is ranked 29th overall in rpm.

based on these rankings, the team may be in need of a shake up. if i were derek fisher, i would consider playing the following players as many minutes together as possible, perhaps even as starters, based on defensive prowess, passing skills, playing without the ball:

melo
o'quinn
kp6
thomas
galloway

bench would be lopez, afflalo, calderon, williams

Starters .. Gallo, Lance, Melo, O'Quinn, Rolo
2nd unit Bench .. Calderon, Afflalo, D.Will, Serafin, KP

kristaps porzingis's defensive rpm is ranked 12th in the league among power forwards and his overall rpm is 16th among power forwards in the league. he is ranked 54th in the league among ALL players, and is the highest-ranked rookie in the league in terms of overall rpm-- ahead of karl anthony towns, who is 89th.

yet you would have him come off the bench?