It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)
Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Oh my goodness you're missing the reason why he only had to use 9 though. They were making their shots so why would you replace them if they're hitting their shots?? When they're not making their shots then he's trying to find guys who can come in and hit their shots but most of the times almost everyone is off so that's why more players get playing time in certain games. Don't you understand that?? It seems really simple to me.
The rotation definitely played a part, but when everyone is hot, hard to play more. if they were cold, we'd surely have saw more than 9.
Also players wasnt picking up silly fouls.
thought they played 10 tonight though koq's mins were garbage
knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Very little Triangle is just STUPID! They are ALWAYS in the Triangle! It's the SYSTEM they play! Just cuz they got more scoring outside of just Side Tiangle Doesn't mean they aren't still running the system.
They weren't running the Triangle as much as it was overloading one side and setting up a Triangle spacing only to run S/R using the PG's. Worked really really well. Lopez, Porzingis all do well in S/R play as do our guards.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Very little Triangle is just STUPID! They are ALWAYS in the Triangle! It's the SYSTEM they play! Just cuz they got more scoring outside of just Side Tiangle Doesn't mean they aren't still running the system.
I really dont see why you get so agitated. Everyone who watched this game, some watching it live today noticed they weren't running the triangle as much. Every play is not within the system of the triangle. Principles? possibility. Even an iso can be considered triangle...lol.
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Very little Triangle is just STUPID! They are ALWAYS in the Triangle! It's the SYSTEM they play! Just cuz they got more scoring outside of just Side Tiangle Doesn't mean they aren't still running the system.
I really don't see why you get so agitated. Everyone who watched this game, some watching it live today noticed they weren't running the triangle as much. Every play is not within the system of the triangle. Principles? possibility. Even an iso can be considered triangle...lol.
I say this because there isn't just the Side Triangle in this SYSTEM they play. The very FIRST part of the Triangle is to push and look for early offense. It's part of the offense to use Drag Screens at the top off transition. The Triple Post Offense is a full court offense and not just a half court offense. The Side Triangle is just one aspect of it. There's much more to it as I've repeatedly been saying. Also you can incorporate lots of different looks within the offensive system.
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Very little Triangle is just STUPID! They are ALWAYS in the Triangle! It's the SYSTEM they play! Just cuz they got more scoring outside of just Side Tiangle Doesn't mean they aren't still running the system.
I really dont see why you get so agitated. Everyone who watched this game, some watching it live today noticed they weren't running the triangle as much. Every play is not within the system of the triangle. Principles? possibility. Even an iso can be considered triangle...lol.
that's actually true. they have often started off running the triangle, but when the triangle breaks down in a possession the two-man game is the next stage of a possession. when that doesn't work it ends with an isolation, but ideally as a last resort.
today they started the game running the triangle and i thought it worked pretty well, especially because lopez seemed to be hitting shots early. interestingly, we saw kp cutting to the hoop a couple of times, which we haven't seen this season. nor have we seen either lopez nor wlliams make that pass to a cutting porzingis.
allowing grant to do his thing seems to indicate that fisher sees the merit of a second unit/initial rotation that pushes the ball.
nixluva wrote:The very FIRST part of the Triangle is to push and look for early offense. It's part of the offense to use Drag Screens at the top off transition.
I'm googling each of your explanations to learn the Xs and Os better . . .
Pushing the ball IS PART OF THE TRIANGLE!!! They don't have to change the system in order to highlight different aspects of it. If I had the time I'd show you guys why you're wrong about the SYSTEM and what is and isn't part of it. For the most part it's not about a certain play. It's more about making better decisions.
Phil:
You're always in the offense. You can't mess up the Triangle if you hit the open man or cut to the open space. If you see a direct line to the hoop, break the offense and go to the hoop.
nixluva wrote:Pushing the ball IS PART OF THE TRIANGLE!!! They don't have to change the system in order to highlight different aspects of it. If I had the time I'd show you guys why you're wrong about the SYSTEM and what is and isn't part of it. For the most part it's not about a certain play. It's more about making better decisions.Phil:
You're always in the offense. You can't mess up the Triangle if you hit the open man or cut to the open space. If you see a direct line to the hoop, break the offense and go to the hoop.
all of the sudden you are too busy? 
Cutting the rotation down was a no brainer awhile back.
Dont believe it was just about cutting the rotation. Calderon and Grant have started stepping up which means Fisher doesnt have to look for scoring elsewhere.
One thing I liked that Fisher did, which they pointed out in the broadcast, was to not sit KP for a long stretch, early on. He subbed out KP for a few minutes in the first, and instead of benching him for a while, Fisher brought KP back after a short breather to run with Grant and the second unit. KP finished the first period and started the second. Gave the scond unit more firepower. Grant and KP looked good running together. If you want to see the team run more, this is a good place to start.
Shows that you dont have to do these bench clearing subtitutions to have make an impact.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Very little Triangle is just STUPID! They are ALWAYS in the Triangle! It's the SYSTEM they play! Just cuz they got more scoring outside of just Side Tiangle Doesn't mean they aren't still running the system.
I don't know Nix cause i don't know if you ever watch the postgame show or Knicks Extra after games but Wally seems to know what he's talking about and i've heard him and Hahn say more than once that the Knicks don't always play the triangle in all games.
A Couple of things really helped in terms of the rotation decisions. 1. The starters played well. 2. There wasn't any foul trouble to force any early benching. Still it's good to see Fish settle on playing a core group, but we don't know if this is a going to be a trend yet or just the result of the starters playing so well that it didn't require any extra bench help.
Jerian playing well also had a huge impact on things since there was no need to go to Sasha or play Jose too many minutes. KP and RoLo staying out of serious foul trouble also kept KOQ on the bench till the end. How will Fish handle the addition of a new player or two?
New York KnicksSTARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Carmelo Anthony, SF 35 4-10 0-3 3-4 5 4 9 5 3 0 1 2 +5 11
Kristaps Porzingis, PF 33 5-13 2-3 2-2 2 5 7 0 0 1 2 3 +12 14
Arron Afflalo, SG 29 14-17 7-8 3-4 0 2 2 2 0 1 1 2 +12 38
Robin Lopez, C 24 7-10 0-0 2-2 5 6 11 5 0 3 5 4 +10 16
Jose Calderon, PG 21 4-8 1-2 0-0 0 3 3 2 2 1 3 0 +9 9
BENCH MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Lance Thomas, SF 27 0-5 0-2 2-2 0 3 3 1 0 0 1 4 +4 2
Derrick Williams, PF 24 3-7 0-2 0-0 0 5 5 3 0 0 0 2 +13 6
Jerian Grant, PG 24 4-10 0-3 0-0 0 3 3 7 2 1 1 0 +9 8
Langston Galloway, SG 20 3-7 1-3 0-0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 1 +3 7
Kyle O'Quinn, PF 3 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 1 1 2 1 0 2 1 -2 0
Kevin Seraphin, C DNP COACH'S DECISION
Sasha Vujacic, SG DNP COACH'S DECISION
newyorker4ever wrote:knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Oh my goodness you're missing the reason why he only had to use 9 though. They were making their shots so why would you replace them if they're hitting their shots?? When they're not making their shots then he's trying to find guys who can come in and hit their shots but most of the times almost everyone is off so that's why more players get playing time in certain games. Don't you understand that?? It seems really simple to me.
This is the part you've often missed. A 9 to 10 men rotation foster: stability, cohesiveness, team work; which all translate to a much better team. Last night, we only had two guys who were really making shots: AFLALO and ROLO. Playing the entire roster like our roach often does is asinine and counterproductive
KP was being benched early regardless of foul trouble, so its nice to see Fisher try something different.
nixluva wrote:A Couple of things really helped in terms of the rotation decisions. 1. The starters played well. 2. There wasn't any foul trouble to force any early benching. Still it's good to see Fish settle on playing a core group, but we don't know if this is a going to be a trend yet or just the result of the starters playing so well that it didn't require any extra bench help. Jerian playing well also had a huge impact on things since there was no need to go to Sasha or play Jose too many minutes. KP and RoLo staying out of serious foul trouble also kept KOQ on the bench till the end. How will Fish handle the addition of a new player or two?
New York KnicksSTARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Carmelo Anthony, SF 35 4-10 0-3 3-4 5 4 9 5 3 0 1 2 +5 11
Kristaps Porzingis, PF 33 5-13 2-3 2-2 2 5 7 0 0 1 2 3 +12 14
Arron Afflalo, SG 29 14-17 7-8 3-4 0 2 2 2 0 1 1 2 +12 38
Robin Lopez, C 24 7-10 0-0 2-2 5 6 11 5 0 3 5 4 +10 16
Jose Calderon, PG 21 4-8 1-2 0-0 0 3 3 2 2 1 3 0 +9 9
BENCH MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Lance Thomas, SF 27 0-5 0-2 2-2 0 3 3 1 0 0 1 4 +4 2
Derrick Williams, PF 24 3-7 0-2 0-0 0 5 5 3 0 0 0 2 +13 6
Jerian Grant, PG 24 4-10 0-3 0-0 0 3 3 7 2 1 1 0 +9 8
Langston Galloway, SG 20 3-7 1-3 0-0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 1 +3 7
Kyle O'Quinn, PF 3 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 1 1 2 1 0 2 1 -2 0
Kevin Seraphin, C DNP COACH'S DECISION
Sasha Vujacic, SG DNP COACH'S DECISION
newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Very little Triangle is just STUPID! They are ALWAYS in the Triangle! It's the SYSTEM they play! Just cuz they got more scoring outside of just Side Tiangle Doesn't mean they aren't still running the system.
I don't know Nix cause i don't know if you ever watch the postgame show or Knicks Extra after games but Wally seems to know what he's talking about and i've heard him and Hahn say more than once that the Knicks don't always play the triangle in all games.
I'm telling you that they most certainly are running the SYSTEM the whole game. Now they don't always stick to the Side Triangle which is the MOST obvious action in the offense but remember it's not the ONLY action in the offense. Also there's a sort of mental trick that happens when you see a few different plays that makes you focus on it and assume that they weren't running The Triangle Offense, but I can assure you that they are. I'm actually referencing the hand written plays from Tex Winter so I'm not just guessing on this. There's a LOT more to the offense than the Side Triangle.
I've watched the game twice and even when Jerian was on the floor they were still running the Triangle Offense most of the time. Just cuz they don't feed the Side Triangle Post each time doesn't change the fact that they are still in the offense. Just cuz they used a Drag Screen or PnR doesn't mean they weren't in the offense. In fact these things are in the offense.
You're supposed to "break the offense" So to speak if you have a great lane to get to the basket. You're supposed to push the ball and look for early offense and any chance to score at all times. The goal isn't to force the Triangle at all costs. The goal is to score efficiently. The offense is not supposed to be slow and predictable. Just think about how the old Bulls and Lakers teams looked.
nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:It such a no brainer, this is the rotation i'm looking for, play 9 guys, grant had his best game in god know how long. Played 23 minutes, more minutes than he's played in all but one other game (in which we won)Very little triangle, faster tempo, and easy buckets..
Very little Triangle is just STUPID! They are ALWAYS in the Triangle! It's the SYSTEM they play! Just cuz they got more scoring outside of just Side Tiangle Doesn't mean they aren't still running the system.
I don't know Nix cause i don't know if you ever watch the postgame show or Knicks Extra after games but Wally seems to know what he's talking about and i've heard him and Hahn say more than once that the Knicks don't always play the triangle in all games.
I'm telling you that they most certainly are running the SYSTEM the whole game. Now they don't always stick to the Side Triangle which is the MOST obvious action in the offense but remember it's not the ONLY action in the offense. Also there's a sort of mental trick that happens when you see a few different plays that makes you focus on it and assume that they weren't running The Triangle Offense, but I can assure you that they are. I'm actually referencing the hand written plays from Tex Winter so I'm not just guessing on this. There's a LOT more to the offense than the Side Triangle.I've watched the game twice and even when Jerian was on the floor they were still running the Triangle Offense most of the time. Just cuz they don't feed the Side Triangle Post each time doesn't change the fact that they are still in the offense. Just cuz they used a Drag Screen or PnR doesn't mean they weren't in the offense. In fact these things are in the offense.
You're supposed to "break the offense" So to speak if you have a great lane to get to the basket. You're supposed to push the ball and look for early offense and any chance to score at all times. The goal isn't to force the Triangle at all costs. The goal is to score efficiently. The offense is not supposed to be slow and predictable. Just think about how the old Bulls and Lakers teams looked.
so basically what you keep trying to say is that there are non triangular (looking) components to this (triangle) system? The system is called the triangle system but there is a mix of other (standard) components as well? Such as fast breaks and PnR's, etc ...? That these are all part of the overall system?
GustavBahler wrote:Dont believe it was just about cutting the rotation. Calderon and Grant have started stepping up which means Fisher doesnt have to look for scoring elsewhere. One thing I liked that Fisher did, which they pointed out in the broadcast, was to not sit KP for a long stretch, early on. He subbed out KP for a few minutes in the first, and instead of benching him for a while, Fisher brought KP back after a short breather to run with Grant and the second unit. KP finished the first period and started the second. Gave the scond unit more firepower. Grant and KP looked good running together. If you want to see the team run more, this is a good place to start.
Shows that you dont have to do these bench clearing subtitutions to have make an impact.
good observation. it also exploits kp's hitherto underused versatility.
