Knicks · Knick fans must look at this!!!! (page 1)

Should note that the article was published two days before the 2015 draft.

“Years ago Phil had a kidney stone,” the writer Charley Rosen, Jackson’s friend, said. “He called his kidney stone Kobe because it wouldn’t pass.”

This made my month!

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

I keep envisioning a team of Conley and Batum in the backcourt - I don't think it'd be possible, but I think that'd be the ideal backcourt for our frontcourt.

But looking at the reality of the cap and Lance and Langston up for new deals and Afflalo and DWill able to opt out... cap room could get scarce this coming off-season.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

batums ws48 has been declining badly. I need to check out why. Right now its down to a very average .108.

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

I keep envisioning a team of Conley and Batum in the backcourt - I don't think it'd be possible, but I think that'd be the ideal backcourt for our frontcourt.

But looking at the reality of the cap and Lance and Langston up for new deals and Afflalo and DWill able to opt out... cap room could get scarce this coming off-season.

both Conley and Batum are up for contracts THIS year, so that's why I keep suggesting Batum and Westbrook and the impeding cap increases when they hit the market.

As for Afflalo and DWill and their respective opt outs, this is a win-win for NY. They opt-in and they are fairly manageable salaries for this upcoming year and the Knicks still have around $19M to spend. They opt out and you gain $8M and $5M respectively to spend on other not bad options: Horford, Bazemore, Maurice Harkless, Allen Crabbe, etc.

Guys like Kobe and Jordan would break the offense and make it sloppier than it should be, but being so great they could make impossible shots. The Knicks don't overwhelming talent so they are tending to stick to the offense much more closely. In fact Tex said the best actual execution of the Triangle was the year after Jordan retired.

That Bulls team was able to do better than expected without it's greatest talent because they executed at a higher level. You still need great players to reach the highest heights, but great execution can help a team without superstars play above their heads and as a team play greater than the sum of it's parts.

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

batums ws48 has been declining badly. I need to check out why. Right now its down to a very average .108.

yeah I'm not as good with the advanced stat stuff and how to interpret. Is it cause of him directly or team record as well? Lot of things come into play. Team is on a very bad run of games.

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

batums ws48 has been declining badly. I need to check out why. Right now its down to a very average .108.

That's more in line with how he played last season. Possible he's being asked to do too much in Charlotte with Al Jeff out? They also hit a brutal stretch in their schedule.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I keep envisioning a team of Conley and Batum in the backcourt - I don't think it'd be possible, but I think that'd be the ideal backcourt for our frontcourt.

But looking at the reality of the cap and Lance and Langston up for new deals and Afflalo and DWill able to opt out... cap room could get scarce this coming off-season.

both Conley and Batum are up for contracts THIS year, so that's why I keep suggesting Batum and Westbrook and the impeding cap increases when they hit the market.

As for Afflalo and DWill and their respective opt outs, this is a win-win for NY. They opt-in and they are fairly manageable salaries for this upcoming year and the Knicks still have around $19M to spend. They opt out and you gain $8M and $5M respectively to spend on other not bad options: Horford, Bazemore, Maurice Harkless, Allen Crabbe, etc.

I keep thinking Conley is the perfect PG for this team. I like Batum a lot. I dunno, we'll see, I guess. Say AA and DWill opt out, that gives us $32M to split between Conley and Batum... sort of pie in the sky. If we got one of those guys, I think it takes us up to 50+ win territory with KP/Grant improvement next season.

One thing on Conley having a sort of down year - he seems to be dealing with that same sore achilles that bothered Calderon all last season. It's one of those nagging injuries that is just sort of there as a dull, constant pain in my experience. Hopefully he doesn't blow it out or anything - but that to me explains him having a sort of down year over there. I still question if he'd leave his BFF Marc Gasol in Memphis, but I would love to add him here.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

batums ws48 has been declining badly. I need to check out why. Right now its down to a very average .108.

That's more in line with how he played last season. Possible he's being asked to do too much in Charlotte with Al Jeff out? They also hit a brutal stretch in their schedule.

yeah. last year was not that great but this year he really picked it up but now he is sliding back.

just makes you worry about giving a guy like him a crazy contract.

Conley is also getting a bit old and his shooting efficiency is way down.

If I was a betting man :-) then I would say that there is no way that Phil is gonna pay these guys. Phil seems to be really good at finding guys at bargain rates that he thinks fit into his scheme.

Rolo got paid but Phil needed him desperately and as I said (for a couple of years already), Rolo does so much that people don't realize. He is an excellent winning player that may not shine in the (basic) stat sheet.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

batums ws48 has been declining badly. I need to check out why. Right now its down to a very average .108.

yeah I'm not as good with the advanced stat stuff and how to interpret. Is it cause of him directly or team record as well? Lot of things come into play. Team is on a very bad run of games.

That shouldn't stop us from adding Batum, Conley or Westbrook. It didn't stop us from acquiring Affalo who's WS & usage was not good. We've seen how he impacts this team in a positive way when he is hitting his shots. Batum would be a major upgrade though

gunsnewing wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

batums ws48 has been declining badly. I need to check out why. Right now its down to a very average .108.

yeah I'm not as good with the advanced stat stuff and how to interpret. Is it cause of him directly or team record as well? Lot of things come into play. Team is on a very bad run of games.

That shouldn't stop us from adding Batum, Conley or Westbrook. It didn't stop us from acquiring Affalo who's WS & usage was not good. We've seen how he impacts this team in a positive way when he is hitting his shots. Batum would be a major upgrade though

Afflalo is at 8 x 2. If we can get one of those guys at a bargain then thats fine.

Watching Afflalo, you can see why his WS48 always sucks.

Among Krzyzewski’s greatest coaching opponents was Jim Calhoun of Connecticut; invariably they faced each other in games of charged moment. Krzyzewski told me they were both “more people-oriented than system-oriented,” and Calhoun agreed.

These guys completely don't know what they're talking about.

The Triangle System is much more about people than non-Triangle approaches . . . (!)