Knicks · Derek Fisher: Knick Job "Not safe" .. is the rumor (page 1)

I’m going to wave a yellow flag on Derek Fisher, as well.

Just hearing some rumbling that there isn’t a lot of – it’s not all rainbows and lollypops there. Just a yellow flag, not a red flag.

Lowe:

I agree with you that there’s some rumblings. I haven’t heard them maybe like you have.

It also depends on what kind of season the Knicks have. If they can finish the season with 40 or more wins, Fisher is going to come back for sure. If they don't close the season with the same type of record they have now (20 wins in the 1st half), I think he could be replaced. At an early point in this season, I agree Fisher looked still very much a rookie head coach. The last month or so though, he has looked far better. I've seen progress. However closing the season strong is critical. He can not go back to experimenting with lineups, playing 11 guys a game, and have players look lost.

To me the coaching staff is strong on this team. They're getting the players to play in a way they want them to play. That's the staff as a whole though. Fisher in particular isn't the one who has to do all of that. Many of the duties are assigned to other coaches on the staff. Fisher's main role is to get the guys to follow what the assistants have schemed for the sets. He wasn't getting that done early on, but lately has been fantastic in that regard. Like I said, all about how they close. They'll have little excuse to not be at 40 or more wins at season's end considering at 20-21 many of the losses can be chalked up to the team learning how to run the offense and fitting in together.

mreinman wrote:wow! from zach lowe??

I’m going to wave a yellow flag on Derek Fisher, as well.

Just hearing some rumbling that there isn’t a lot of – it’s not all rainbows and lollypops there. Just a yellow flag, not a red flag.

Lowe:

I agree with you that there’s some rumblings. I haven’t heard them maybe like you have.

Ya all know I am not fond of Fisher's coaching style, sets and way of finishing games
but I have to eat humble pie and give him a tad of credit for how the Knicks been doing Dec.-Jan.2016

With all that said, we'll see
If his job aint saft & if a pinch of truth to that maybe perhaps they are
some philosophy differences with Knicks Gm/pres Phil Jackson, their assistant coaches and
also the players as the Brian W. /Lowe post article reports. Players to cite X's & O's issues is smoke to this story.

Where there is smoke may be a little fire soon, you think ??

I maintained Fisher appears to need WAY WAY too much seasoning and figuring things out time which
will have probability into going past next season 2016/2017.

He really doesnt seem like whether Triangle O' OR not a coach needs to establish something, personality of the club

NY defense is BETTER but SORRY DFish ,
I cannot give you much credit for defensive turnaround, since assistants Kurt Rambis and Jim Cleamons are DEFENDER coaches
so D' is not driven by Fisher whatsover.

My guess is that these so called "rumblings" are a month old when we all thought Fisher could be canned. Before the turn around when we were blowing every 4th quarter lead with ISO and not sticking to the system. Hard to imagine this came on after one badly coached loss to the Nets.

I can definitely see Walton here if things don't pan out for Fish tho

nyknickzingis wrote:If Phil makes the change at season end, it would be only with 1 person I think he'd be willing to do it for. Luke Walton.

It also depends on what kind of season the Knicks have. If they can finish the season with 40 or more wins, Fisher is going to come back for sure. If they don't close the season with the same type of record they have now (20 wins in the 1st half), I think he could be replaced. At an early point in this season, I agree Fisher looked still very much a rookie head coach. The last month or so though, he has looked far better. I've seen progress. However closing the season strong is critical. He can not go back to experimenting with lineups, playing 11 guys a game, and have players look lost.

To me the coaching staff is strong on this team. They're getting the players to play in a way they want them to play. That's the staff as a whole though. Fisher in particular isn't the one who has to do all of that. Many of the duties are assigned to other coaches on the staff. Fisher's main role is to get the guys to follow what the assistants have schemed for the sets. He wasn't getting that done early on, but lately has been fantastic in that regard. Like I said, all about how they close. They'll have little excuse to not be at 40 or more wins at season's end considering at 20-21 many of the losses can be chalked up to the team learning how to run the offense and fitting in together.

Luke ?
he aint bad but its the Golden State Warriors ya know. (already built good!)

How about a story to give Patrick Ewing ? a shot as coach of this same team
Knick mgmt. need to bury the Ewing hatchet, Patrick is very very deserving of a head NBA coach opportunity

Why ?not ? here
Best NBA in area
(sorry nets fans!)
LOL

DJMUSIC wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:If Phil makes the change at season end, it would be only with 1 person I think he'd be willing to do it for. Luke Walton.

It also depends on what kind of season the Knicks have. If they can finish the season with 40 or more wins, Fisher is going to come back for sure. If they don't close the season with the same type of record they have now (20 wins in the 1st half), I think he could be replaced. At an early point in this season, I agree Fisher looked still very much a rookie head coach. The last month or so though, he has looked far better. I've seen progress. However closing the season strong is critical. He can not go back to experimenting with lineups, playing 11 guys a game, and have players look lost.

To me the coaching staff is strong on this team. They're getting the players to play in a way they want them to play. That's the staff as a whole though. Fisher in particular isn't the one who has to do all of that. Many of the duties are assigned to other coaches on the staff. Fisher's main role is to get the guys to follow what the assistants have schemed for the sets. He wasn't getting that done early on, but lately has been fantastic in that regard. Like I said, all about how they close. They'll have little excuse to not be at 40 or more wins at season's end considering at 20-21 many of the losses can be chalked up to the team learning how to run the offense and fitting in together.

Luke ?
he aint bad but its the Golden State Warriors ya know. (already built good!)

How about a story to give Patrick Ewing ? a shot as coach of this same team
Knick mgmt. need to bury the Ewing hatchet, Patrick is very very deserving of a head NBA coach opportunity

Why ?not ? here
Best NBA in area
(sorry nets fans!)
LOL

patrick ewing?

c'mon man! Don't you want this thread to be credible?

fishmike wrote:Lots of things can get coaches fired. I dont see any of those things happening here. Not saying Fisher has been perfect, but I cant fathom Phil so much as having this thought

coming from zach lowe makes this a bit more credible. Also, we can't see what is going on and what phil likes and dislikes.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lots of things can get coaches fired. I dont see any of those things happening here. Not saying Fisher has been perfect, but I cant fathom Phil so much as having this thought

coming from zach lowe makes this a bit more credible. Also, we can't see what is going on and what phil likes and dislikes.

It's possible the shenanigans with Matt Barnes he was involved in during camp annoyed the Knicks brass. Really if be shocked if Phil pulled the trigger with the team seemly having turned the corner

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lots of things can get coaches fired. I dont see any of those things happening here. Not saying Fisher has been perfect, but I cant fathom Phil so much as having this thought

coming from zach lowe makes this a bit more credible. Also, we can't see what is going on and what phil likes and dislikes.

I can see Phil not liking the Fisher/Barnes situation and thinking Fisher does not have the maturity and personal life to support the environment and culture he is trying to build with the Knicks. For all we know, a lot of NBA personnel might be siding with Barnes and saying that what Fisher did hurt his credibility around the league. I don't think it's likely, but very possible. Still don't understand how these guys fight over these reality tv skanks. Anyways, to me it seems like these issues are more likely to cause friction with Phil than the basketball side, because Fisher is showing some progress there.

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lots of things can get coaches fired. I dont see any of those things happening here. Not saying Fisher has been perfect, but I cant fathom Phil so much as having this thought

coming from zach lowe makes this a bit more credible. Also, we can't see what is going on and what phil likes and dislikes.

It's possible the shenanigans with Matt Barnes he was involved in during camp annoyed the Knicks brass. Really if be shocked if Phil pulled the trigger with the team seemly having turned the corner

A coaching change just seems to fly in the face of what Phil preaches... at least at this point it does. Just my 2c

nyknickzingis wrote:If Phil makes the change at season end, it would be only with 1 person I think he'd be willing to do it for. Luke Walton.

It also depends on what kind of season the Knicks have. If they can finish the season with 40 or more wins, Fisher is going to come back for sure. If they don't close the season with the same type of record they have now (20 wins in the 1st half), I think he could be replaced. At an early point in this season, I agree Fisher looked still very much a rookie head coach. The last month or so though, he has looked far better. I've seen progress. However closing the season strong is critical. He can not go back to experimenting with lineups, playing 11 guys a game, and have players look lost.

To me the coaching staff is strong on this team. They're getting the players to play in a way they want them to play. That's the staff as a whole though. Fisher in particular isn't the one who has to do all of that. Many of the duties are assigned to other coaches on the staff. Fisher's main role is to get the guys to follow what the assistants have schemed for the sets. He wasn't getting that done early on, but lately has been fantastic in that regard. Like I said, all about how they close. They'll have little excuse to not be at 40 or more wins at season's end considering at 20-21 many of the losses can be chalked up to the team learning how to run the offense and fitting in together.

I agree with a lot of this, except if there's any truth to this rumor Fisher needs more than 40 wins to be safe. He started the season rough, and if he finishes at 40 there will have been NO growth over the second half of the season, and that's not good for job security. In addition, if Phil has convinced himself Luke is the guy and not to be missed, i think he pulls the plug regardless of the record (absent something astounding). A coach can be as transformative to a team as a star player.

Also if these so-called rumblings are recent it has to be the Nets game. We got our ass handed to us a number of times when the other team was on a back-to-back, e.g., Utah. We play the nets (with what was essentially a home crowd) and a team that was too dumb to run it down our throats and we lost. I can't imagine it sitting well for Phil; nor do I think he gives hall passes on back to back excuse.

Having said all of that, I agree with the rest of your assessment that he has grown as a coach and he doesn't need to be a master of everything (though ultimately the buck has to stop with him). I'm actually pulling for the guy at this point, though i still find some of his moves easy to criticize

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lots of things can get coaches fired. I dont see any of those things happening here. Not saying Fisher has been perfect, but I cant fathom Phil so much as having this thought

coming from zach lowe makes this a bit more credible. Also, we can't see what is going on and what phil likes and dislikes.

It's possible the shenanigans with Matt Barnes he was involved in during camp annoyed the Knicks brass. Really if be shocked if Phil pulled the trigger with the team seemly having turned the corner

when that story came out I really thought that it will be an issue/distraction. They have played better than I expected so it was not as bad but perhaps under the covers this is uglier than it looks?

fishmike wrote:Lots of things can get coaches fired. I dont see any of those things happening here. Not saying Fisher has been perfect, but I cant fathom Phil so much as having this thought

I can totally fathom this (though again, I'm not hoping he's removed):
(a) Fisher has yet to demonstrate that "it" factor; the ability to pull a rabit out of a hat. He is doing a great job getting the team motivated and playing hard, but they've had problems playing a consistent 48 minutes or from one game to the next. And, he hasn't yet shown that magic that separates the men from the boys from a coaching standpoint
(b) Fisher a number of times (especially last year) made a strong point that he was the coach, not Phil, and said it in a way that I don't think played to Phil's ego. If Phil is making suggestions (behind closed doors to Derek) and Derek isn't implementing them and then loses a game, Phil is not going to like that

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lots of things can get coaches fired. I dont see any of those things happening here. Not saying Fisher has been perfect, but I cant fathom Phil so much as having this thought

coming from zach lowe makes this a bit more credible. Also, we can't see what is going on and what phil likes and dislikes.

I can see Phil not liking the Fisher/Barnes situation and thinking Fisher does not have the maturity and personal life to support the environment and culture he is trying to build with the Knicks. For all we know, a lot of NBA personnel might be siding with Barnes and saying that what Fisher did hurt his credibility around the league. I don't think it's likely, but very possible. Still don't understand how these guys fight over these reality tv skanks. Anyways, to me it seems like these issues are more likely to cause friction with Phil than the basketball side, because Fisher is showing some progress there.

not buying this. Under other circumstances maybe, but Barnes is a clown and a punk

If Phil is unhappy it's more basketball related, like Derek not following Phil's advice on something

So this might just be a bunch of baloney

Stealth Jackson move to leak a very tenuous rumor out there and see if team rallies around him, thereby providing motivation and litmus test if he's the 'Melo's last run' solution?

Knickoftime wrote:Someone will eventually express this thought, so I'll get it out of the way:

Stealth Jackson move to leak a very tenuous rumor out there and see if team rallies around him, thereby providing motivation and litmus test if he's the 'Melo's last run' solution?

who knows... interesting point. I could see this

We'll see how things shake out this off season!