gunsnewing wrote:Nalod wrote:We won 17 games. Its a better team. Its not like we regressed have we?
It's kinda hard to regress from a 17 win season. They won 37 games the season prior with stupid Bargnani and some valuable players who Phil couldn't wait to get rid of. He gave those players away just to get rid of them and got nothing back. Now we are seeing the effects of not understanding value and managing cap space
Who were the valuable players that he gave away?? Tell me you're not gonna say JR Smith or Shump or T.Chandler??
The team is better, but that's only when compared the worst season the Knicks have ever had. This team isn't as good as the one Phil had when he took over. He's literally trying to recreate that one.
Afflalo is just as inefficient as JR. Lopez is not as good as Tyson while he was here. Calderon is just as bad as Felton. Grant is a flawed rookie who did not progress in college just like Shumpert and Hardaway. I don't think Galloway is any better than Toney Douglas.
The only difference is KP. he's literally the only hope at this point.
The difference in the team Phil took over and the team we are now is that we have a) some young players and b) we have some capspace to keep getting better.
The very fact that we have Porzingis and he's playing so well should give us something to work in the future.
As I've said many times the biggest issue with the Knicks will remain Melo. When he plays well like he should, he's an asset. However when he doesn't, which is about half the time because of his physical decline (injuries, pains etc.) he is way overpaid to be a team's franchise player. He's making almost the same money the other 4 starters COMBINE to make. That's ridiculous. He's not that good a player on a consistent basis to warrant that kind of contract. It's hurt the team's depth and what they can do.
On the plus if they can get better through free agency they can add some depth and much needed changes in the rotation and rely less on Melo. If that happens, regardless of how much he makes the team will be better by considerable margin. And there's always a real possibility that Porzingis will come in and play even better next season as would Grant.
newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:6 games out w 30 to go and losing to bad teams at home
Who do you blame??
Well no blame. It was a very bad mistake not paying Alex. I'm not sure what continuity will continue here a lot of questions. Not Phil's fault that we traded away draft pick that was Jim Dolan I think phil needs to be flexible in how he views guards and how the nba works now. We'd also been better off paying Barton than Affalo with perhaps an extra year
It was a mistake: to hire someone who never coached in his life; go into the season with Calderon and a neophyte like Grant as the only PGs on the roster; last but not least, go into the season with two average height and athletically challenge bigs in Seraphin and KO
this roster is on phil not fisher
Everyone on here was praising Phil for what he did with this roster 2 months ago and i mean EVERYONE so please don't try to be that guy that says he wasn't. When we were playing really good which was up until Melo stepped on that refs foot there was plenty of people posting about what a great job Phil did with this roster and i was definitely one of them.
I've been bitching about the stupid offense for the whole season. The best thing that phil has done so far is finally get melo to pass but now that he is passing, he can't get into his volume shooting groove.
Most rational fans thought playoffs would be nice, but lots of things would have to break right. Things have not broken right.
Doesn't mean it's a lost season. They've made progress. They need to make more, from within and by adding pieces.
Not sure Fisher or the Triangle is the way forward though. Moreso the Triangle than Fisher.
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:Nalod wrote:We won 17 games. Its a better team. Its not like we regressed have we?
regressed? was not really possible. Melo has played this year and we brought in Rolo, KP and AA. beating 17 wins is not considered progress. To me, our expected progress is below expectations and our offense is way below expectations.
I'm sticking to what I said earlier in the year. We make the playoffs winning 40-45 games and Fisher is a keeper. We narrowly miss the playoffs after winning 38 games but finish strong Fisher gets to start the year but with a shorter hook. They need a better start then the start they had this year. There needs to be upward progress.
But if this regression continues and we win 30 games which would be progress according to analog then he will be fired sooner rather than later or by seasons end. Then all the pressure shifts to Phil. I would hope he hires a Walton or someone who will continue to push Melo to play the way he's been playing. Someone who can draw up plays out of a time out and not let Melo force last second heaves. Obviously Phil is not going to hire an unimagitive Woodson type
I don't know about that last statement, because he hired Fisher from the first place
newyorker4ever wrote:mreinman wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:6 games out w 30 to go and losing to bad teams at home
Who do you blame??
Well no blame. It was a very bad mistake not paying Alex. I'm not sure what continuity will continue here a lot of questions. Not Phil's fault that we traded away draft pick that was Jim Dolan I think phil needs to be flexible in how he views guards and how the nba works now. We'd also been better off paying Barton than Affalo with perhaps an extra year
It was a mistake: to hire someone who never coached in his life; go into the season with Calderon and a neophyte like Grant as the only PGs on the roster; last but not least, go into the season with two average height and athletically challenge bigs in Seraphin and KO
this roster is on phil not fisher
Everyone on here was praising Phil for what he did with this roster 2 months ago and i mean EVERYONE so please don't try to be that guy that says he wasn't. When we were playing really good which was up until Melo stepped on that refs foot there was plenty of people posting about what a great job Phil did with this roster and i was definitely one of them.
I have been on Phil for Jose and Fisher since last year. I don't know what you're talking about.
How many teams have gone from 17 wins to over 40 in one offseason? If you can't manage your expectations or you have a sense of entitlement whereby you think we should be able to click our fingers and magically become a good team instantly then it's on you.
smackeddog wrote:How many teams have gone from 17 wins to over 40 in one offseason? If you can't manage your expectations or you have a sense of entitlement whereby you think we should be able to click our fingers and magically become a good team instantly then it's on you.
Phil and Fish created the 17win season by maxing out Melo, adding guys like Calderon, Dalembert, Acy & Jason Smith. This was a 37+ win team. You gotta be kidding me with that statement bro
="smackeddog"]
How many teams have gone from 17 wins to over 40 in one offseason? If you can't manage your expectations or you have a sense of entitlement whereby you think we should be able to click our fingers and magically become a good team instantly then it's on you.
[/quote]
Wow
Well I guess that's an easy out.Il jay forget we we won 56% of our games when Carmelo was traded here with vastly different rosters year to year for 3.5 years. We were able to spend 100mm on bet upgrades and had 2# #1 picks. Out avg age of our SL is on the top 1/3 of the league.Our team as a whole is older than 67% of the NBA.So we say that the bench mark is 17 games? I don't agree with that. What I think happened is we did not put anywhere near the emphasis on our guard play that we should've.
yea briggs refer to my above post. No quality guards in that 17win bunch
gunsnewing wrote:smackeddog wrote:How many teams have gone from 17 wins to over 40 in one offseason? If you can't manage your expectations or you have a sense of entitlement whereby you think we should be able to click our fingers and magically become a good team instantly then it's on you.
Phil and Fish created the 17win season by maxing out Melo, adding guys like Calderon, Dalembert, Acy & Jason Smith. This was a 37+ win team. You gotta be kidding me with that statement bro
If he didnt create the 17 win team then you don't get Porzingis. I think he thought last years team was better. He messed up but resetting, going for the lottery and character guys was tge right thing to do. He is in a tougher spot now. This team doesn't seem to be able to win unless melo is healthy and playing well.
I don't think this is on Fisher as much as it is on the offense/system/process we are running. I believe we have the talent to be better than we have shown - there have been flashes.
And when we talk about building- who exactly on this roster is going to be here next year? I see a lot of turn over in the off season.
I'd like D Williams to be kept, but I don't see us paying him and him necessarily wanting the BS role he's had here.
I don't want AA back- he's certainly been better than I expected, but he's old and his defense is wretched.
So, Melo a year older, KP and a bunch of role players. Awesome. I hope they get their system down!
