I am not going to bash our current PGs, but will criticize Phil's views on that front. The game starts and ends with the PG, I have no idea why Phil always over look that position. IMO the reason why the triangle was successful, is because of Jordan/Pippen and Kobe's ability to run plays and get others involved. They were not PGs, but they were very proficient with the concept of getting others involved.
One of the reasons Knicks have struggled with the triangle, is because the guards are not that good at making plays for others off the dribble. Off course their lack of defensive prowess is huge, but when your back court can't be counted on to collect at least 8 assists, it is a problem. I love Aflalo, but his inability to create for others is not an asset.
Ummmmmmmmm you have been paying attention this year right?? It's been said over and over and over again that Phil wants to upgrade our back court especially at point guard and all the talk around the deadline that came from us was about us trying to trade for a point guard which is why all we heard was J.Teague and B.Jennings and R.Rubio so i'm not sure what this thread is about??
Today I have figured out how to solve the problem. I keep expecting the Knicks to change and improve, but they never do. I have grown increasingly frustrated and negative as this season has progressed. I come on here every day and complain about all the things that frustrate me about this team, this system, this coach, this management and our lack of young prospects and talent.
Today, I cracked open the wallet and bought NBA league pass. I refuse to waste the rest of this season watching bad basketball. I will always be a Knicks fan first and foremost, I just can't take them so seriously anymore until they fix this mess.
Rookie wrote:Today I have figured out how to solve the problem. I keep expecting the Knicks to change and improve, but they never do. I have grown increasingly frustrated and negative as this season has progressed. I come on here every day and complain about all the things that frustrate me about this team, this system, this coach, this management and our lack of young prospects and talent. Today, I cracked open the wallet and bought NBA league pass. I refuse to waste the rest of this season watching bad basketball. I will always be a Knicks fan first and foremost, I just can't take them so seriously anymore until they fix this mess.
I take solace watching GS play beautiful basketball thanks to NBA Leagues Pass. It is a good investment
newyorker4ever wrote:Ummmmmmmmm you have been paying attention this year right?? It's been said over and over and over again that Phil wants to upgrade our back court especially at point guard and all the talk around the deadline that came from us was about us trying to trade for a point guard which is why all we heard was J.Teague and B.Jennings and R.Rubio so i'm not sure what this thread is about??
I am frustrated with the back court; I am further frustrated with the lack of effort to solve the problem. 55 games into the season, I have seen nothing but terrible adjustments.
Knicks1969 wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:Ummmmmmmmm you have been paying attention this year right?? It's been said over and over and over again that Phil wants to upgrade our back court especially at point guard and all the talk around the deadline that came from us was about us trying to trade for a point guard which is why all we heard was J.Teague and B.Jennings and R.Rubio so i'm not sure what this thread is about??
I am frustrated with the back court; I am further frustrated with the lack of effort to solve the problem. 55 games into the season, I have seen nothing but terrible adjustments.
Phil Jackson doesn't live in your message board world where you can at any time come on here and make a post of what you think the Knicks should do or who they should trade for or what rotations our coach should use or anything else that's talked about on a message board. They live in the real world where they can't just think what they want and it happens, it's not that easy. Our coaches and front office people are very smart basketball people and know what's best for the team a lot more than anyone on here. If Phil could of upgraded at any position at the trade deadline he would of done it and if he could of signed bigger names or better players last off season then he would of. If Rambis or Fisher had better players to put in rotations then they would and if they had a better PG than Calderon then that PG would be playing. You need to stop all the crying and realize that we are what we are right now which isn't a very good team but we can only play the guys we have. 
It's not that Phil is against point guards. He's against the traditional role of a point guard. Phil's teams have great PG's - they just aren't at the PG position. Kobe was the point of the Lakers teams, and he was averaging 5-6 assists and scoring 25-30 points. That's as good as Curry is doing. Pippen we all know about. MJ as well. Those guys didn't need a traditional typical point guard.
Now with Melo, he's been good, very good this season at playing point for the offense, but he's not on the same level as Kobe/Jordan/Pippen. Those guys were able to do it at another level. Then factor that usually there was 2 guys that shared the duties. With Chicago it was Pippen and Jordan. In LA it was Kobe and Odom, even Pau I believe made many plays. Many guys making plays.
It's different in NY because the talent is far different. Lopez isn't a great passer. Afflalo rarely passes. Jose can pass but that's all he is - a passer who can't do much else. We need that 2nd passing/scoring double threat. KP is doing it at times, but KP's more of a pure shooter/scorer. Even just adding Pau Gasol and Mike Conley this summer would make the Knicks a totally different team around Melo/KP/Galloway.
We have a passing/scoring threat in Melo, but that's all, and he's not on that Kobe/superstar level where he can do it by his own. He needs help in the guard duties, and that second scoring/passing threat in the offense would go a long way. If now you add a 3rd in Pau who can also give you a post presence on offense, this team will contend in the East running the same system we are today.
nyknickzingis wrote:It's not that Phil is against point guards. He's against the traditional role of a point guard. Phil's teams have great PG's - they just aren't at the PG position. Kobe was the point of the Lakers teams, and he was averaging 5-6 assists and scoring 25-30 points. That's as good as Curry is doing. Pippen we all know about. MJ as well. Those guys didn't need a traditional typical point guard.Now with Melo, he's been good, very good this season at playing point for the offense, but he's not on the same level as Kobe/Jordan/Pippen. Those guys were able to do it at another level. Then factor that usually there was 2 guys that shared the duties. With Chicago it was Pippen and Jordan. In LA it was Kobe and Odom, even Pau I believe made many plays. Many guys making plays.
It's different in NY because the talent is far different. Lopez isn't a great passer. Afflalo rarely passes. Jose can pass but that's all he is - a passer who can't do much else. We need that 2nd passing/scoring double threat. KP is doing it at times, but KP's more of a pure shooter/scorer. Even just adding Pau Gasol and Mike Conley this summer would make the Knicks a totally different team around Melo/KP/Galloway.
We have a passing/scoring threat in Melo, but that's all, and he's not on that Kobe/superstar level where he can do it by his own. He needs help in the guard duties, and that second scoring/passing threat in the offense would go a long way. If now you add a 3rd in Pau who can also give you a post presence on offense, this team will contend in the East running the same system we are today.
Exactly and we also have to remember this isn't exactly what Phil would've put together if it was totally up to him but it wasn't. Players that are free agents decide where they want to sign. We saw guys stay home and others go to winning situations. There wasn't much Phil could do about that. The only area I can fault him in is not resigning Shved. I think he believed he could get what he needed out of a combo of Gallo, Jerian and AA. When those guys play well it's immediately clear how that improves the team. We just have to wait a little longer for Phil to improve the guard spots and the team overall. This is just year one of his process of building this back up. Progress was made.
nyknickzingis wrote:It's not that Phil is against point guards. He's against the traditional role of a point guard. Phil's teams have great PG's - they just aren't at the PG position. Kobe was the point of the Lakers teams, and he was averaging 5-6 assists and scoring 25-30 points. That's as good as Curry is doing. Pippen we all know about. MJ as well. Those guys didn't need a traditional typical point guard.Now with Melo, he's been good, very good this season at playing point for the offense, but he's not on the same level as Kobe/Jordan/Pippen. Those guys were able to do it at another level. Then factor that usually there was 2 guys that shared the duties. With Chicago it was Pippen and Jordan. In LA it was Kobe and Odom, even Pau I believe made many plays. Many guys making plays.
It's different in NY because the talent is far different. Lopez isn't a great passer. Afflalo rarely passes. Jose can pass but that's all he is - a passer who can't do much else. We need that 2nd passing/scoring double threat. KP is doing it at times, but KP's more of a pure shooter/scorer. Even just adding Pau Gasol and Mike Conley this summer would make the Knicks a totally different team around Melo/KP/Galloway.
We have a passing/scoring threat in Melo, but that's all, and he's not on that Kobe/superstar level where he can do it by his own. He needs help in the guard duties, and that second scoring/passing threat in the offense would go a long way. If now you add a 3rd in Pau who can also give you a post presence on offense, this team will contend in the East running the same system we are today.
Excellent post. We need a new back court badly. Which is why I was willing to let go of Lopez in a trade. I strongly favored trading Rolo and another asset to the bucks for Monroe and MCW
nyknickzingis wrote:It's not that Phil is against point guards. He's against the traditional role of a point guard. Phil's teams have great PG's - they just aren't at the PG position. Kobe was the point of the Lakers teams, and he was averaging 5-6 assists and scoring 25-30 points. That's as good as Curry is doing. Pippen we all know about. MJ as well. Those guys didn't need a traditional typical point guard.Now with Melo, he's been good, very good this season at playing point for the offense, but he's not on the same level as Kobe/Jordan/Pippen. Those guys were able to do it at another level. Then factor that usually there was 2 guys that shared the duties. With Chicago it was Pippen and Jordan. In LA it was Kobe and Odom, even Pau I believe made many plays. Many guys making plays.
It's different in NY because the talent is far different. Lopez isn't a great passer. Afflalo rarely passes. Jose can pass but that's all he is - a passer who can't do much else. We need that 2nd passing/scoring double threat. KP is doing it at times, but KP's more of a pure shooter/scorer. Even just adding Pau Gasol and Mike Conley this summer would make the Knicks a totally different team around Melo/KP/Galloway.
We have a passing/scoring threat in Melo, but that's all, and he's not on that Kobe/superstar level where he can do it by his own. He needs help in the guard duties, and that second scoring/passing threat in the offense would go a long way. If now you add a 3rd in Pau who can also give you a post presence on offense, this team will contend in the East running the same system we are today.
Thats why we need a guy like Batum who averages 5.5 assists per game
Knicks1969 wrote:I am not going to bash our current PGs, but will criticize Phil's views on that front. The game starts and ends with the PG, I have no idea why Phil always over look that position. IMO the reason why the triangle was successful, is because of Jordan/Pippen and Kobe's ability to run plays and get others involved. They were not PGs, but they were very proficient with the concept of getting others involved. One of the reasons Knicks have struggled with the triangle, is because the guards are not that good at making plays for others off the dribble. Off course their lack of defensive prowess is huge, but when your back court can't be counted on to collect at least 8 assists, it is a problem. I love Aflalo, but his inability to create for others is not an asset.
Honestly...don't you get bored saying the same thing in different ways almost every day in a new thread?
I think that everyone, including Phil, knows that we need at upgrade at the lead guard position...not sure that creating at least one post a day trying to get a direct or indirect shot at Calderon (Which is where you are going in this thread...don't insult my intelligence and say otherwise, please.) is going to accomplish anything but gets folks annoyed with what comes across to me as incessant whining on your part.
Move on...we all know your position about Jose. Make some observations on particular plays he screws up in the game thread without going into your typical rant. Might be refreshing to see this kind of thing from you.
Wait, I thought once Fisher was gone Grant would get the consistent minutes he deserved and all our PG problems would be solved?
It's not necessarily PG play but attacking the rim for high % shots and playing inside out. I like having a system and the triangle could certainly be executed better but when your players miss the small passing windows that are there it becomes a stagnant ISO offense that settles for jumpers. There's numerous offenses around the league that are better imo, but our talent and execution also make the triangle look worse than it really is. Idk what his PPS is posting up, but feeding Lopez on the block doesn't open up any offense. He's an awful passer and i don't see why he's featured other than that the triangle calls for it
nixluva wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:It's not that Phil is against point guards. He's against the traditional role of a point guard. Phil's teams have great PG's - they just aren't at the PG position. Kobe was the point of the Lakers teams, and he was averaging 5-6 assists and scoring 25-30 points. That's as good as Curry is doing. Pippen we all know about. MJ as well. Those guys didn't need a traditional typical point guard.Now with Melo, he's been good, very good this season at playing point for the offense, but he's not on the same level as Kobe/Jordan/Pippen. Those guys were able to do it at another level. Then factor that usually there was 2 guys that shared the duties. With Chicago it was Pippen and Jordan. In LA it was Kobe and Odom, even Pau I believe made many plays. Many guys making plays.
It's different in NY because the talent is far different. Lopez isn't a great passer. Afflalo rarely passes. Jose can pass but that's all he is - a passer who can't do much else. We need that 2nd passing/scoring double threat. KP is doing it at times, but KP's more of a pure shooter/scorer. Even just adding Pau Gasol and Mike Conley this summer would make the Knicks a totally different team around Melo/KP/Galloway.
We have a passing/scoring threat in Melo, but that's all, and he's not on that Kobe/superstar level where he can do it by his own. He needs help in the guard duties, and that second scoring/passing threat in the offense would go a long way. If now you add a 3rd in Pau who can also give you a post presence on offense, this team will contend in the East running the same system we are today.
Exactly and we also have to remember this isn't exactly what Phil would've put together if it was totally up to him but it wasn't. Players that are free agents decide where they want to sign. We saw guys stay home and others go to winning situations. There wasn't much Phil could do about that. The only area I can fault him in is not resigning Shved. I think he believed he could get what he needed out of a combo of Gallo, Jerian and AA. When those guys play well it's immediately clear how that improves the team. We just have to wait a little longer for Phil to improve the guard spots and the team overall. This is just year one of his process of building this back up. Progress was made.
Also keep in mind the priority was building the front court. Remember how horrible that was last year?!? This off season will have an emphasis on back court.
Knicks1969 wrote:I am not going to bash our current PGs, but will criticize Phil's views on that front. The game starts and ends with the PG, I have no idea why Phil always over look that position. IMO the reason why the triangle was successful, is because of Jordan/Pippen and Kobe's ability to run plays and get others involved. They were not PGs, but they were very proficient with the concept of getting others involved. One of the reasons Knicks have struggled with the triangle, is because the guards are not that good at making plays for others off the dribble. Off course their lack of defensive prowess is huge, but when your back court can't be counted on to collect at least 8 assists, it is a problem. I love Aflalo, but his inability to create for others is not an asset.
Yeah Melo has been better this year but for how much he handles the ball we need 6 assists a game not 4. I think the lack of a shooting Guard hurts the Knicks more than a true point guard.
Jmpasq wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:I am not going to bash our current PGs, but will criticize Phil's views on that front. The game starts and ends with the PG, I have no idea why Phil always over look that position. IMO the reason why the triangle was successful, is because of Jordan/Pippen and Kobe's ability to run plays and get others involved. They were not PGs, but they were very proficient with the concept of getting others involved. One of the reasons Knicks have struggled with the triangle, is because the guards are not that good at making plays for others off the dribble. Off course their lack of defensive prowess is huge, but when your back court can't be counted on to collect at least 8 assists, it is a problem. I love Aflalo, but his inability to create for others is not an asset.
Yeah Melo has been better this year but for how much he handles the ball we need 6 assists a game not 4. I think the lack of a shooting Guard hurts the Knicks more than a true point guard.
Carmelo's assists could be more if dudes were making shots. KP and guys from the back court have Been missing shots, mainly because they can't really operate without having the bAll in their hands. The concept of moving without the ball is sort of foreign for guys like AA and Jose. The old Bulls guards were killed excellent players moving without the ball
Profound genius discovery to point out a team that is 10 games under .500.
Most of us would not have had a clue to what the teams problems are. Most novice fans looking at the stats of this team could never decipher the mathematical anomaly that is your are showing!!! We are so lucky to have you.
Its like a bucket of cold water in a hot shower: "The knicks problem is their back court play"! Thank you!!!
The lack of adjustments? Yes, the team should try to play all of them and see who does what!!! Brilliant. Oh wait, thats happened.
So they should try to trade? Ok, Lets see, "How can we trade guards we don't want for others?" Lets trade the guys we don't need? OH, nobody needs them either. They want our 2018 pick?
So as a fan you want to trade a pick for a middle talent guard who might not really be the answer and then in two years looking at "Why in gods name did we trade that pick?"
We are changing the way the team makes decisions. Why not embrace the process and understand what "We don't have assets" really means instead of relentless redundant threads that everyone is aware of.
Oh, hate to burst your bubble, but it was not you who had Fisher fired. Your "Woodward and Bernstein" moment has not substance.
Nalod wrote:Profound genius discovery to point out a team that is 10 games under .500.
Most of us would not have had a clue to what the teams problems are. Most novice fans looking at the stats of this team could never decipher the mathematical anomaly that is your are showing!!! We are so lucky to have you.Its like a bucket of cold water in a hot shower: "The knicks problem is their back court play"! Thank you!!!
The lack of adjustments? Yes, the team should try to play all of them and see who does what!!! Brilliant. Oh wait, thats happened.
So they should try to trade? Ok, Lets see, "How can we trade guards we don't want for others?" Lets trade the guys we don't need? OH, nobody needs them either. They want our 2018 pick?
So as a fan you want to trade a pick for a middle talent guard who might not really be the answer and then in two years looking at "Why in gods name did we trade that pick?"
We are changing the way the team makes decisions. Why not embrace the process and understand what "We don't have assets" really means instead of relentless redundant threads that everyone is aware of.
Oh, hate to burst your bubble, but it was not you who had Fisher fired. Your "Woodward and Bernstein" moment has not substance.
In phish you trust:::))))
We just need a consistent guard. One where you don't have to go...oh crap we are playing this guy, we're in trouble. We don't have the assets to get that right now unless we get lucky in the draft.
WaltLongmire wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:I am not going to bash our current PGs, but will criticize Phil's views on that front. The game starts and ends with the PG, I have no idea why Phil always over look that position. IMO the reason why the triangle was successful, is because of Jordan/Pippen and Kobe's ability to run plays and get others involved. They were not PGs, but they were very proficient with the concept of getting others involved. One of the reasons Knicks have struggled with the triangle, is because the guards are not that good at making plays for others off the dribble. Off course their lack of defensive prowess is huge, but when your back court can't be counted on to collect at least 8 assists, it is a problem. I love Aflalo, but his inability to create for others is not an asset.
Honestly...don't you get bored saying the same thing in different ways almost every day in a new thread?
I think that everyone, including Phil, knows that we need at upgrade at the lead guard position...not sure that creating at least one post a day trying to get a direct or indirect shot at Calderon (Which is where you are going in this thread...don't insult my intelligence and say otherwise, please.) is going to accomplish anything but gets folks annoyed with what comes across to me as incessant whining on your part.
Move on...we all know your position about Jose. Make some observations on particular plays he screws up in the game thread without going into your typical rant. Might be refreshing to see this kind of thing from you.
Yeah it seems pretty clear to me that everyone involved with the Knicks know we need back court help especially at PG so i'm not understanding this thread but i guess we can talk about the same things we already talk about in other threads in this thread.
