Knicks · The problem is the Triangle. (page 1)

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Sign Thibs and Mike Conley this summer and we can win some games.

Our offense is too predictable and leads to deflating turnovers.

Our backcourt is terrible - but hand picked by Phil. He traded one of our best assets (at the time) in Tyson to get Calderon. He signed Afflalo first this off-season, even before Rolo.

crzymdups wrote:Sign Thibs and Mike Conley this summer and we can win some games.

Our offense is too predictable and leads to deflating turnovers.

Our backcourt is terrible - but hand picked by Phil. He traded one of our best assets (at the time) in Tyson to get Calderon. He signed Afflalo first this off-season, even before Rolo.

yup. the tyson for calderon was a fleecing

The problem is Dolans investment in two rookies.
High expectations from fans.

Fisher and Phil are rookies....Got paid like vets.

The real pimps are Fisher and Phil. Both will take their money to LA and build up the Lakers again, while riding into the sunset on Dolans money.

You would think Dolan would've learned, by giving Isiah so much control, eventhough he lacked experience. So Dolan turns around and gives Phil the same control, with even less experience than Isiah.

On top of that, you give Melo a max contract, eventhough it would take his entire contract years to rebuild the team.

Anybody with Dolans money would've turned this franchise around a long time ago. Just like Fisher go fired, Phil should fire himself, or at least fire that system.

Having Melo and Dolan together makes it hard to build a championship.

Melo thinks he's the same 20 year old in Denver, and he hasn't adapted his game. Dolan is only concerned with ticket sales, which is why he hired Phil.....I get it. But he didn't have to give him so much control. Phil needs help, and I'm not talking about help from current staff members thats been here whe we sucked over the last 15yrs. Also the triangle gang needs to give it up. It's not the system, it's the players.

Jordan in the triange system, b4 Pippen was a terrible bulls team. We don't have a person even close to Jordan's skill set, but we are expected to make some noise, when the greatest player ever couldn't do it either (Until he had capable players around him).

The problem is Melo is not Jordan. And the players around Melo, wouldn't even crack the Bulls rotation.

OK....I'M DONE

blkexec wrote:The problem is Dolans investment in two rookies.
High expectations from fans.

Fisher and Phil are rookies....Got paid like vets.

The real pimps are Fisher and Phil. Both will take their money to LA and build up the Lakers again, while riding into the sunset on Dolans money.

You would think Dolan would've learned, by giving Isiah so much control, eventhough he lacked experience. So Dolan turns around and gives Phil the same control, with even less experience than Isiah.

On top of that, you give Melo a max contract, eventhough it would take his entire contract years to rebuild the team.

Anybody with Dolans money would've turned this franchise around a long time ago. Just like Fisher go fired, Phil should fire himself, or at least fire that system.

Having Melo and Dolan together makes it hard to build a championship.

Melo thinks he's the same 20 year old in Denver, and he hasn't adapted his game. Dolan is only concerned with ticket sales, which is why he hired Phil.....I get it. But he didn't have to give him so much control. Phil needs help, and I'm not talking about help from current staff members thats been here whe we sucked over the last 15yrs. Also the triangle gang needs to give it up. It's not the system, it's the players.

Jordan in the triange system, b4 Pippen was a terrible bulls team. We don't have a person even close to Jordan's skill set, but we are expected to make some noise, when the greatest player ever couldn't do it either (Until he had capable players around him).

The problem is Melo is not Jordan. And the players around Melo, wouldn't even crack the Bulls rotation.

OK....I'M DONE

I think this part of your post is just not valid and coming from anger. Why in the world should we feed into this notion that Phil isn't legitimately working to improve this team? Just because things have gone south this season doesn't mean that he isn't going into this summer with the goal to continue to build up this team. In fact he'll likely have a lot more progress again this summer. Stop getting so wrapped up in this notion of instant success.

We're all disappointed with how this team has been playing the last 13 games but there has been some progress along with the steps back recently. This team actually had a period of time where it looked like it was coming together. That is a small sign of what is possible if Phil can continue the process this summer in terms of adding talent. There are some very clear moves that can and should be made this summer to improve the team greatly. The missing elements are pretty clear at this point. When you step back and really look at things, it's not a sky is falling sort of situation. This team needs to continue the player development and cleaning out the older players that aren't getting it done.

Been saying this for a while now. The triangle is not well equipped at all for this team, and frankly might not ever be. We should be running systems that are better suited to this team imo.

Most systems and/or coaches look bad due to poor guard play. And looking at our potential options. Giving Conley whay ever he wamts may be the only option to improve. Other then taking a chance on a guy like Jru Holiday and his injuries. Or Derek Rose

The problem is we have Phil Jackson as president and not coach of our team.

The problem is we Melo, a 20 year old rookie phenom, and Broke Lopez brother as our best players. The rest of the roster would be end of the bench filler on other teams.

You give us Phil Jax from 20 years ago as head coach, KD, Anthony Davis, and Westbrook with role players and the Triangle would sizzle.

It's only way the triangle has been successful. Need thorough breds in their prime running it.

Phil Jackson should either coach and establish his triangle or simply get a coach with a good team-oriented offensive system and let him do his work.

Phil can have all the rings of the world, but if he isn't stepping into the sidelines, then stop pushing a system that is proving to be outdated or simply not fit for the best of our players, the few we have.

This triangle talk is our main doom right now. Yes, the team is terrible, but they aren't this bad in a better system. Mediocre is the highest this team can be right now, but instead they are utter garbage and the system is proving to be a hindrance instead of an aid.

Jackson: Coach or let another coach!

Ive never been impressed by the triangle to be honest. The reason Phil had success with it because he has Jordan, Kobe,and Shaq(3 of the greatest players in our generation along with Lebron} Basically those guys could have won in ANY system.

StarksEwing1 wrote:Ive never been impressed by the triangle to be honest. The reason Phil had success with it because he has Jordan, Kobe,and Shaq(3 of the greatest players in our generation along with Lebron} Basically those guys could have won in ANY system.

Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Gasol the list goes on...

With great players you can make any system look good. The only system that made fringe players look good is the Dumbtoni Spread PnR 7 SSOL that San Antonio and Golden State adopted. Duhon, Jeremy Lin, and Kendall Marshall looked like superstars!

ChuckBuck wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Ive never been impressed by the triangle to be honest. The reason Phil had success with it because he has Jordan, Kobe,and Shaq(3 of the greatest players in our generation along with Lebron} Basically those guys could have won in ANY system.

Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Gasol the list goes on...

With great players you can make any system look good. The only system that made fringe players look good is the Dumbtoni Spread PnR 7 SSOL that San Antonio and Golden State adopted. Duhon, Jeremy Lin, and Kendall Marshall looked like superstars!

Exactly, I forgot about Pippen too.

The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst sorting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

You just proved our point though. Players make the system, not the other way around.

In the first quarter the Triangle was fine.

The difference was that in the 2nd quarter when Calderon came back, Lowry went at him and the game was lost. The Defense was gone and the offense lost its confidence the more they fell behind.

A tree can defend better than Calderon. He needs to go.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:In the first quarter the Triangle was fine.

The difference was that in the 2nd quarter when Calderon came back, Lowry went at him and the game was lost. The Defense was gone and the offense lost its confidence the more they fell behind.

A tree can defend better than Calderon. He needs to go.

Thats pretty much what happened.... Calderón has got to go. He had a good career. No use beating a dead horse

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

EXCELLENT POST!!! This is the most concise and clear explanation of what is going on with this team. It's not very complicated. If the guards are bad you simply can't win.

I have nothing against Jose but he just got old and can't get the job done. None of our other guards are quality NBA guards either. When our guards were at least playing halfway decent this team could win some games or at least stay competitive! If the guards are gonna suck like this we have no chance. I'm pretty sure Phil knows this. We can expect he'll use every bit of cap to bring in better guards this summer.

For now I hope Rambis shuts Jose down and just plays the young guards. They need more PT to develop and for us to see what they can do. The Jose experience is over.

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst sorting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

You just proved our point though. Players make the system, not the other way around.

Exactly, if you don't have the players to excel in the system, why are you shoving down their throat to no avail.

Every well prepared team will defend us with their eyes close, they make adjustments, which is why we lose leads.

StarksEwing1 wrote:Ive never been impressed by the triangle to be honest. The reason Phil had success with it because he has Jordan, Kobe,and Shaq(3 of the greatest players in our generation along with Lebron} Basically those guys could have won in ANY system.

except they didn't in any other system, with the exception of Shaq one year. Of course the triangle is better with that talent, but Jordan lost with Collins, KObe only won with Phil and Shaq only won with Phil except for one year

I agree the triangle will always have that asterisk -- i.e., can it win with lesser talent; but we should also give credit to the fact that there have been some immensely talented teams that never won because of a lack of a winning system

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst sorting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

You just proved our point though. Players make the system, not the other way around.

Yes, you need players. The problem is NY has some of the players but not all. The defense is so bad a the PG position. The SG is not buying in.

ENY's post says it perfectly. What some of you dont seem to get is that the triangle is just a set. Its nothing else but a sets to get into. The ball and players are supposed to move. The plays are movements off the set and creativity off the sets. Calderon and AA give us no creativity. NONE. Zero. Zip. NADA.

The lanes are there and they are being missed all the time!

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

EXCELLENT POST!!! This is the most concise and clear explanation of what is going on with this team. It's not very complicated. If the guards are bad you simply can't win.

I have nothing against Jose but he just got old and can't get the job done. None of our other guards are quality NBA guards either. When our guards were at least playing halfway decent this team could win some games or at least stay competitive! If the guards are gonna suck like this we have no chance. I'm pretty sure Phil knows this. We can expect he'll use every bit of cap to bring in better guards this summer.

For now I hope Rambis shuts Jose down and just plays the young guards. They need more PT to develop and for us to see what they can do. The Jose experience is over.

I agree with this. Am optimistic this is fixable. Jose is such a puzzle too. He has been playing dumb. A guy who can shoot like that, and hit FTs like that, should have enough sense that he needs to shoot more, and draw fouls more.

I just hope Phil doesn't overreact. I am not sold on any of this year's FA crop of guards being worth max money, especially Conley. We need an upgrade on talent and more importantly intelligence at the 2 guard