Knicks · The problem is the Triangle. (page 11)
crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
Analytics. Playing a system that maximizes our talent instead of forcing it into bad shots. The last two years have been two of the worst shooting years of Melo's career. Kristaps Porzingis a 7'3" guy with a jumper like silk is shooting 43% for his career.
Our guys are getting the ball in the wrong spots to succeed.
I honestly think this exact team could be 10 games better with better shot selection. How many games have we lost by 1pt, 2pts? 3pts? What if we were taking shots that maximized our players talents? Shot from higher value areas of the floor? Shot 2% better in eFG? We'd have won those close games.
Knicks top shot attempts are from Melo and he lives in the midrange. Besides the issue has mainly been the lack of defense. Can't be talking about the Triangle which they largely haven't been running this year. The defense is 25th worst in the league.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:The best player on this team is still Melo at this point and there is no MJ, Pippen, Kobe or Shaq. The Triangle Offense is just a system and can't magically make up for Championship Talent. It also is doing better than the team's defense.The key is going to be improving the overall talent with more 2 Way players and hopefully younger Top Tier talent from the Draft. We need more smart, team oriented players that pass and defend!!! Some more athletic ability would be nice as well.
No, the key is to ditch the Triangle.
The problem with the team is taking too many value shots. Full stop. It is caused by an outmoded offense that was created before the three point line even existed.
Rose and BJ are not 3 point shooters but if they were the Knicks would be in the upper half of the league in 3point attempts! They take about 26 a game which is about middle of the league. This is more about the players than the system!!! You can't have your 2 PG's not shooting 3's cuz they can't and then blame the system.
EnySpree wrote:Let Hornacek coach. Move Rambis upstairs. Hire a young basketball exec/workaholic in place of Mills to do the groundwork for Phil. A guy that communicates, has relationships with everyone in the league, understands the cba, a guy given Phil's permission to make deals (not, I have to check with Phil etc.), a guy that is simpatico with the coach, knows the type of players he needs and communicates with him about potential deals. Do everything you can to get Jeff's former defensive assistant out of his contract and back with Jeff. Try to convince him somehow that all of the dysfunction, coaches being fired, coaches authority and autonomy being infringed on and taken is a thing of the past. If possible, tame the ego of the club pres and try to keep him from communicating his displeasure through old friends in the media and twitter. That is where I would start. The Knicks would resemble other nba franchises and have a unified direction as a team. I can't imagine that this would be a bad thing.crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:Let Hornacek coach. Move Rambis upstairs. Hire a young basketball exec/workaholic in place of Mills to do the groundwork for Phil. A guy that communicates, has relationships with everyone in the league, understands the cba, a guy given Phil's permission to make deals (not, I have to check with Phil etc.), a guy that is simpatico with the coach, knows the type of players he needs and communicates with him about potential deals. Do everything you can to get Jeff's former defensive assistant out of his contract and back with Jeff. Try to convince him somehow that all of the dysfunction, coaches being fired, coaches authority and autonomy being infringed on and taken is a thing of the past. If possible, tame the ego of the club pres and try to keep him from communicating his displeasure through old friends in the media and twitter. That is where I would start. The Knicks would resemble other nba franchises and have a unified direction as a team. I can't imagine that this would be a bad thing.crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
How about a much simpler solution? Better players!!! Draft 2 way players that are Team Oriented and have a high BB IQ. I guarantee that would have a much greater impact than any coaching or front office changes. IT'S ABOUT THE TALENT!!!
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:The best player on this team is still Melo at this point and there is no MJ, Pippen, Kobe or Shaq. The Triangle Offense is just a system and can't magically make up for Championship Talent. It also is doing better than the team's defense.The key is going to be improving the overall talent with more 2 Way players and hopefully younger Top Tier talent from the Draft. We need more smart, team oriented players that pass and defend!!! Some more athletic ability would be nice as well.
No, the key is to ditch the Triangle.
The problem with the team is taking too many value shots. Full stop. It is caused by an outmoded offense that was created before the three point line even existed.
Rose and BJ are not 3 point shooters but if they were the Knicks would be in the upper half of the league in 3point attempts! They take about 26 a game which is about middle of the league. This is more about the players than the system!!! You can't have your 2 PG's not shooting 3's cuz they can't and then blame the system.
Dang I wonder who signed those guys.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
Analytics. Playing a system that maximizes our talent instead of forcing it into bad shots. The last two years have been two of the worst shooting years of Melo's career. Kristaps Porzingis a 7'3" guy with a jumper like silk is shooting 43% for his career.
Our guys are getting the ball in the wrong spots to succeed.
I honestly think this exact team could be 10 games better with better shot selection. How many games have we lost by 1pt, 2pts? 3pts? What if we were taking shots that maximized our players talents? Shot from higher value areas of the floor? Shot 2% better in eFG? We'd have won those close games.
Knicks top shot attempts are from Melo and he lives in the midrange. Besides the issue has mainly been the lack of defense. Can't be talking about the Triangle which they largely haven't been running this year. The defense is 25th worst in the league.
Again it's not the players - it's the quality of shots they're getting in the offense.
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:Let Hornacek coach. Move Rambis upstairs. Hire a young basketball exec/workaholic in place of Mills to do the groundwork for Phil. A guy that communicates, has relationships with everyone in the league, understands the cba, a guy given Phil's permission to make deals (not, I have to check with Phil etc.), a guy that is simpatico with the coach, knows the type of players he needs and communicates with him about potential deals. Do everything you can to get Jeff's former defensive assistant out of his contract and back with Jeff. Try to convince him somehow that all of the dysfunction, coaches being fired, coaches authority and autonomy being infringed on and taken is a thing of the past. If possible, tame the ego of the club pres and try to keep him from communicating his displeasure through old friends in the media and twitter. That is where I would start. The Knicks would resemble other nba franchises and have a unified direction as a team. I can't imagine that this would be a bad thing.crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
How about a much simpler solution? Better players!!! Draft 2 way players that are Team Oriented and have a high BB IQ. I guarantee that would have a much greater impact than any coaching or front office changes. IT'S ABOUT THE TALENT!!!
We had a GM / Coach who was great at drafting two way players, but him and Marbury was ran out of msg. Phil is known for finding two way guards, which help him win multiple championships.
The problem is not drafting two way players, it's finding two way players. This new generation of basketball players don't have the same basketball IQ as the old school triangle type players. Phil needs a superstar who's willing to buy into the triangle, without holding the ball like Melo.
Unfortunately, this is not a video game where we can make up triangle savy players. Therefor Phil and company has to improvise, which is what he's done so far, and hasn't been too successful.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
Analytics. Playing a system that maximizes our talent instead of forcing it into bad shots. The last two years have been two of the worst shooting years of Melo's career. Kristaps Porzingis a 7'3" guy with a jumper like silk is shooting 43% for his career.
Our guys are getting the ball in the wrong spots to succeed.
I honestly think this exact team could be 10 games better with better shot selection. How many games have we lost by 1pt, 2pts? 3pts? What if we were taking shots that maximized our players talents? Shot from higher value areas of the floor? Shot 2% better in eFG? We'd have won those close games.
Knicks top shot attempts are from Melo and he lives in the midrange. Besides the issue has mainly been the lack of defense. Can't be talking about the Triangle which they largely haven't been running this year. The defense is 25th worst in the league.
Again it's not the players - it's the quality of shots they're getting in the offense.
This team doesn't always get the best shots but not because of the offense which I might add is not pure Triangle!!! It would be one thing if this team ran pure Triangle all year but they haven't. The very real truth is the players need to be upgraded with more 2 way players that have better skills etc. if you keep the same offense but upgrade the talent you get a much better result.
blkexec wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:Let Hornacek coach. Move Rambis upstairs. Hire a young basketball exec/workaholic in place of Mills to do the groundwork for Phil. A guy that communicates, has relationships with everyone in the league, understands the cba, a guy given Phil's permission to make deals (not, I have to check with Phil etc.), a guy that is simpatico with the coach, knows the type of players he needs and communicates with him about potential deals. Do everything you can to get Jeff's former defensive assistant out of his contract and back with Jeff. Try to convince him somehow that all of the dysfunction, coaches being fired, coaches authority and autonomy being infringed on and taken is a thing of the past. If possible, tame the ego of the club pres and try to keep him from communicating his displeasure through old friends in the media and twitter. That is where I would start. The Knicks would resemble other nba franchises and have a unified direction as a team. I can't imagine that this would be a bad thing.crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
How about a much simpler solution? Better players!!! Draft 2 way players that are Team Oriented and have a high BB IQ. I guarantee that would have a much greater impact than any coaching or front office changes. IT'S ABOUT THE TALENT!!!
We had a GM / Coach who was great at drafting two way players, but him and Marbury was ran out of msg. Phil is known for finding two way guards, which help him win multiple championships.
The problem is not drafting two way players, it's finding two way players. This new generation of basketball players don't have the same basketball IQ as the old school triangle type players. Phil needs a superstar who's willing to buy into the triangle, without holding the ball like Melo.
Unfortunately, this is not a video game where we can make up triangle savy players. Therefor Phil and company has to improvise, which is what he's done so far, and hasn't been too successful.
I think Lonzo Ball could maybe succeed in a Triangle type system. But it'd be a waste of his talent. He could dominate in a spread offense.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
Analytics. Playing a system that maximizes our talent instead of forcing it into bad shots. The last two years have been two of the worst shooting years of Melo's career. Kristaps Porzingis a 7'3" guy with a jumper like silk is shooting 43% for his career.
Our guys are getting the ball in the wrong spots to succeed.
I honestly think this exact team could be 10 games better with better shot selection. How many games have we lost by 1pt, 2pts? 3pts? What if we were taking shots that maximized our players talents? Shot from higher value areas of the floor? Shot 2% better in eFG? We'd have won those close games.
Knicks top shot attempts are from Melo and he lives in the midrange. Besides the issue has mainly been the lack of defense. Can't be talking about the Triangle which they largely haven't been running this year. The defense is 25th worst in the league.
Again it's not the players - it's the quality of shots they're getting in the offense.
This team doesn't always get the best shots but not because of the offense which I might add is not pure Triangle!!! It would be one thing if this team ran pure Triangle all year but they haven't. The very real truth is the players need to be upgraded with more 2 way players that have better skills etc. if you keep the same offense but upgrade the talent you get a much better result.
If you keep the same players but run an offense that suits their talent you get better results too.
The Knicks come down the floor in the Triangle formation. It puts guys in the wrong spots off the jump. Last night they were running the triangle and taking until the ten second mark in the shot clock to get into their sets. It allows the defense to breathe and get set. It's a bad system for this team, for the league as it stands right now.
blkexec wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:Let Hornacek coach. Move Rambis upstairs. Hire a young basketball exec/workaholic in place of Mills to do the groundwork for Phil. A guy that communicates, has relationships with everyone in the league, understands the cba, a guy given Phil's permission to make deals (not, I have to check with Phil etc.), a guy that is simpatico with the coach, knows the type of players he needs and communicates with him about potential deals. Do everything you can to get Jeff's former defensive assistant out of his contract and back with Jeff. Try to convince him somehow that all of the dysfunction, coaches being fired, coaches authority and autonomy being infringed on and taken is a thing of the past. If possible, tame the ego of the club pres and try to keep him from communicating his displeasure through old friends in the media and twitter. That is where I would start. The Knicks would resemble other nba franchises and have a unified direction as a team. I can't imagine that this would be a bad thing.crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
How about a much simpler solution? Better players!!! Draft 2 way players that are Team Oriented and have a high BB IQ. I guarantee that would have a much greater impact than any coaching or front office changes. IT'S ABOUT THE TALENT!!!
We had a GM / Coach who was great at drafting two way players, but him and Marbury was ran out of msg. Phil is known for finding two way guards, which help him win multiple championships.
The problem is not drafting two way players, it's finding two way players. This new generation of basketball players don't have the same basketball IQ as the old school triangle type players. Phil needs a superstar who's willing to buy into the triangle, without holding the ball like Melo.
Unfortunately, this is not a video game where we can make up triangle savy players. Therefor Phil and company has to improvise, which is what he's done so far, and hasn't been too successful.
There are 2 way players in this draft!!! The idea is to make the best use of those picks, UDFA's and sign FA's that are 2 way players and team oriented. It's not impossible. Just hard to accomplish. But it can be done.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
Analytics. Playing a system that maximizes our talent instead of forcing it into bad shots. The last two years have been two of the worst shooting years of Melo's career. Kristaps Porzingis a 7'3" guy with a jumper like silk is shooting 43% for his career.
Our guys are getting the ball in the wrong spots to succeed.
I honestly think this exact team could be 10 games better with better shot selection. How many games have we lost by 1pt, 2pts? 3pts? What if we were taking shots that maximized our players talents? Shot from higher value areas of the floor? Shot 2% better in eFG? We'd have won those close games.
Knicks top shot attempts are from Melo and he lives in the midrange. Besides the issue has mainly been the lack of defense. Can't be talking about the Triangle which they largely haven't been running this year. The defense is 25th worst in the league.
Again it's not the players - it's the quality of shots they're getting in the offense.
This team doesn't always get the best shots but not because of the offense which I might add is not pure Triangle!!! It would be one thing if this team ran pure Triangle all year but they haven't. The very real truth is the players need to be upgraded with more 2 way players that have better skills etc. if you keep the same offense but upgrade the talent you get a much better result.
If you keep the same players but run an offense that suits their talent you get better results too.
The Knicks come down the floor in the Triangle formation. It puts guys in the wrong spots off the jump. Last night they were running the triangle and taking until the ten second mark in the shot clock to get into their sets. It allows the defense to breathe and get set. It's a bad system for this team, for the league as it stands right now.
Truthfully much of that is on the players! You don't have to slow it down if you have an advantage and getting into you sets should be faster if your PG knows what to do and how to put the defense on its heals. We don't have a PG that is on that level. Rose only knows how to put his head down and go. BJ didn't really run Triangle and overdribbled. The young guys like Baker can't think fast enough and lack the breakdown ability to just beat their man.
Also wanting to get the ball to Melo forces a slower progression!!! Can't forget that aspect of what the Knicks do. Melo is getting the most touches and that means TIME to set that up.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
Analytics. Playing a system that maximizes our talent instead of forcing it into bad shots. The last two years have been two of the worst shooting years of Melo's career. Kristaps Porzingis a 7'3" guy with a jumper like silk is shooting 43% for his career.
Our guys are getting the ball in the wrong spots to succeed.
I honestly think this exact team could be 10 games better with better shot selection. How many games have we lost by 1pt, 2pts? 3pts? What if we were taking shots that maximized our players talents? Shot from higher value areas of the floor? Shot 2% better in eFG? We'd have won those close games.
Knicks top shot attempts are from Melo and he lives in the midrange. Besides the issue has mainly been the lack of defense. Can't be talking about the Triangle which they largely haven't been running this year. The defense is 25th worst in the league.
Again it's not the players - it's the quality of shots they're getting in the offense.
This team doesn't always get the best shots but not because of the offense which I might add is not pure Triangle!!! It would be one thing if this team ran pure Triangle all year but they haven't. The very real truth is the players need to be upgraded with more 2 way players that have better skills etc. if you keep the same offense but upgrade the talent you get a much better result.
If you keep the same players but run an offense that suits their talent you get better results too.
The Knicks come down the floor in the Triangle formation. It puts guys in the wrong spots off the jump. Last night they were running the triangle and taking until the ten second mark in the shot clock to get into their sets. It allows the defense to breathe and get set. It's a bad system for this team, for the league as it stands right now.
Truthfully much of that is on the players! You don't have to slow it down if you have an advantage and getting into you sets should be faster if your PG knows what to do and how to put the defense on its heals. We don't have a PG that is on that level. Rose only knows how to put his head down and go. BJ didn't really run Triangle and overdribbled. The young guys like Baker can't think fast enough and lack the breakdown ability to just beat their man.
Also wanting to get the ball to Melo forces a slower progression!!! Can't forget that aspect of what the Knicks do. Melo is getting the most touches and that means TIME to set that up.
Blaming the players is a weak excuse. So you think the coaching and the system has been impeccable and the players just aren't giving effort?
What about their 4OT loss to Atlanta? Their 1pt loss to Toronto? Their Christmas Day loss to Boston? Their 3pt loss to Washington? Their other 1pt loss to Atlanta? Their OTHER 4pt loss to Atlanta? Their 3pt loss in Toronto. Their 1pt loss to Milwaukee? Their 2pt loss to Phoenix? Their other 2pt loss to Phoenix? Their 1pt loss to Philly?
You can't admit that maybe just maybe if they were running a system that maximized the value of their shots, they would've scored at a more efficient rate and won some of those games?
I see a team playing its ass off most nights and deeply frustrated by the offense and the results. Jennings asked to leave. Rose went AWOL. Melo has looked frustrated all season. CLee has said they're beyond pep talks. Did it look like he had given up last night?
Blaming the players is weak as hell. Who else has done that? Oh yeah, Phil Jackson.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:The problem is still the Triangle.So what's the solution?
Analytics. Playing a system that maximizes our talent instead of forcing it into bad shots. The last two years have been two of the worst shooting years of Melo's career. Kristaps Porzingis a 7'3" guy with a jumper like silk is shooting 43% for his career.
Our guys are getting the ball in the wrong spots to succeed.
I honestly think this exact team could be 10 games better with better shot selection. How many games have we lost by 1pt, 2pts? 3pts? What if we were taking shots that maximized our players talents? Shot from higher value areas of the floor? Shot 2% better in eFG? We'd have won those close games.
Knicks top shot attempts are from Melo and he lives in the midrange. Besides the issue has mainly been the lack of defense. Can't be talking about the Triangle which they largely haven't been running this year. The defense is 25th worst in the league.
Again it's not the players - it's the quality of shots they're getting in the offense.
That's absolutely the most ridiculous thing ever. The triangle isn't getting the Knicks quality sites. That's why we aren't winning. I hate you.