Knicks · Oquinn played better with kp than Lopez (page 2)

BRIGGS wrote:

martin wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Maybe we should just waive Lopez. I mean, every center in the league fits better than he does. Calderon could probably fill in at the C spot and be a better fit for the team than Rolo actually.

I think so many fans just don't understand the game.the way I see basketball is to put 5 guys together who FIT together and can play a winning style of basketball. I'm not talking about individual achievement. I'm talking a team that wins. When you are 1-11 you must keep an open mind. What I saw with oquinn and kp last night should've explored what's thesis fervency if Lopez Affalo and Calderon come off the bench next game we MUST fix this problem in the paint I liked what I saw last night so why is it a negative against any player to see different combos going together ?

Include yourself on that list Briggs. Said weeks ago that O'Quinn was in a slump because he wasnt hitting those midrange jumpers like he was earlier in the season. Once he started hitting his jumpers, it opened up the rest of his game like it did last night.

Still doesnt make O'Quinn a better rebounder, low post scoring option, defender, screen setter than Lopez. KP still performs better with Lopez on the floor.

Just admit you got it wrong about Lopez, big time. Better that than having sift through one pouting session after another. I know the mods give you a pass on this, but you're nothing but a garden variety troll now who posts a variation of the same thread almost every day.

Lopez the second half of the year has been really good he's a solid player. I'm not sure in terms of structure that his perfect fit is with kp starting. Let me go to facts with robin Lopez playing his best ball we've been god awful. It's not Lopez fault it's the balance of the line up it's why we can't-- NOT Lopez the structure of the lineup what exactly is wrong with starting oquinn and giving him 28 minutes while Lopez gets 28 off the bench? When you are boxing someone and your right hand isn't getting through maybe it's time to use the left hook. It's time for some structural changes. And it's not a negative towards Lopez in anyway. It's all about style of play and fit

Lopez has gotten better month by month and is throwing down games in Feb of 15PPG/10RPG shooting a lightening 63% from the field and you want to bench him because KOQ finally/accidentally put one 19 minute effort together?

Can we just give KOQ more minutes off the bench?

Martin we've lost 11/12 can we change the structure of the SL? What's so horrid ?

Absolutely. But lets change the parts that are failing, not the parts that aren't.

I was curious to see what our best performing 5 man lineups have been and it's pretty educational IMO. The lineup we play the most is the least effective, but remember they are starting games and most of the time these other lineups are likely not dealing with other teams full starting units, tho that's hard to quantify. Just from memory i'd say that other teams attacking Jose with PnR has been the main reason the SL has been so ineffective.

DWill is the surprise guy in the best performing lineups that I see. KOQ makes an appearance as well. Gallo makes FIVE appearances in the best performing lineups. The issue of whether to start Gallo or not seems to gain a lot of support based on this kind of observation.

Regular Season: 5-Man Combinations 
Net (Per 100 Poss)
Rk	            Lineup	                                        MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	PTS ▾		
1  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | K. Porzingis | D. Williams	26:46	+11.0	+10.0	+.066	+4.3	+4.7	+.078	+.082	-5.6	-19.4	+.173	+20.8	
2  A. Afflalo | L. Galloway | K. O'Quinn | L. Thomas | D. Williams	23:23	-3.3	-22.0	+.071	+4.0	-2.2	+.167	+.107	+21.1	+25.8	-.154	+18.5	
3  C. Anthony | L. Galloway | J. Grant | K. Seraphin | L. Thomas	26:27	+9.9	-13.6	+.169	+3.8	-1.1	+.222	+.193	-7.6	-7.8	-.029	+16.1
4  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | L. Thomas	        64:42	+1.2	-12.4	+.080	+0.6	+1.0	+.016	+.089	+13.1	+5.6	+.342	+16.0
5  C. Anthony | J. Calderon | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	34:22	+5.0	-13.7	+.108	+3.1	+3.3	+.119	+.128	-1.2	-10.1	+.273	+11.9
6  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | K. Porzingis | L. Thomas	41:10	-0.3	-11.6	+.053	+4.4	+12.0	+.005	+.084	+4.0	+0.3	+.152	+7.7
7  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	77:49	-4.0	+8.6	-.083	+1.2	+0.2	+.045	-.080	+14.0	+16.5	+.072	+7.2
10 A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	641:39	-0.7	-2.7	+.006	+0.2	-1.9	+.041	+.008	-0.6	-3.5	+.131	-1.8

Another part of the problem is inconsistency with guys like KOQ and Seraphin. More importantly it seems to me that the extended rotations have hurt more than they've helped. At tighter rotation of just the most consistent guys that appear in this list of top lineups. We clearly don't play the best groups enough!!! That's in large part due to Fish and Rambis decisions regarding the rotations.

If I'm not mistaken, the first column is total minutes for the season. So all those numbers (except the 10th lineup) are based on a ridiculously small number of minutes (like 30).
Where did you go for those numbers? I used to use 82games.com but it's no longer updated.

I'm open to changes in the starting lineup. Would be interested in Rambis experimenting the last 20-25 games to know what works better for next year. Many of these players will be back. We'll see changes, but not wholesale changes like we did in summer 2015.

O'Quinn/Porzingis/Melo/Galloway/Calderon
Porzingis/Melo/Thomas/Afflalo/Galloway
Lopez/Williams/Thomas/Afflalo/Grant

Something like that would be interesting to try.

I was excited O'Quinn played well last night but he had scored 3 points in his last three games. Lopez has been beasting in February. Is this based on one game? O'Quinn hasn't produced for almost the entire year. Nice game last night. He should continue to play ahead of Seraphin and maybe he ends up being a keeper this June.

I'm only open to changes because it seems neither the starting 5 or current bench is doing well enough to win games. We have to be the only team in the league who loses this much after such a solid start and doesn't even think about making an adjustment to the rotation/starting units. I mean we treat Afflalo/Calderon like they're proven championship players and can turn it around.

Sometimes just making 1 or 2 changes to a starter can totally change the rotation and dymamic of the team. For instance with O'Quinn/Porzingis/Melo/Galloway/Calderon - the lineup I suggested - the Knicks can often have their bigs both up high and keep the lane open. We can post up Melo or we could let guys off the dribble get into the paint and have open shots from Porzingis/O'Quinn. Not saying it's going to change the season completely, but to not look at changes when you're on this kind of losing run, is down right ridiculous.

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm only open to changes because it seems neither the starting 5 or current bench is doing well enough to win games. We have to be the only team in the league who loses this much after such a solid start and doesn't even think about making an adjustment to the rotation/starting units. I mean we treat Afflalo/Calderon like they're proven championship players and can turn it around.

Sometimes just making 1 or 2 changes to a starter can totally change the rotation and dymamic of the team. For instance with O'Quinn/Porzingis/Melo/Galloway/Calderon - the lineup I suggested - the Knicks can often have their bigs both up high and keep the lane open. We can post up Melo or we could let guys off the dribble get into the paint and have open shots from Porzingis/O'Quinn. Not saying it's going to change the season completely, but to not look at changes when you're on this kind of losing run, is down right ridiculous.

Right--I dont think people are getting it. What Oquinn can do is OPEN up the lane for others. Having Lopez in there clogs it . Oquinn can play in/out while Lopez ONLY plays in. Its not to say Lopez is bad --quite the contrary--its simply changing the dynamics of unit 1.

Bonn1997 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the first column is total minutes for the season. So all those numbers (except the 10th lineup) are based on a ridiculously small number of minutes (like 30).
Where did you go for those numbers? I used to use 82games.com but it's no longer updated.

Got this from NBA Reference. You seem to have totally missed the point of the stats. The #10 best lineup is actually our starting lineup for the season. Outside of that starting group there is almost no consistent 5 man lineup that would approach the same amount of minutes. There are other 5 man line ups but they sucked so I didn't post them. There would be no point in listing them!!! The point is to identify who played well together and when you're a losing team, throwing all kinds of stuff at the wall to see what sticks, the amount of time that those best 5 man line ups will have will be short.

Regular Season: 5-Man Combinations 
Net (Per 100 Poss)
Rk	            Lineup	                                        MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	PTS ▾		
1  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | K. Porzingis | D. Williams	26:46	+11.0	+10.0	+.066	+4.3	+4.7	+.078	+.082	-5.6	-19.4	+.173	+20.8	
2  A. Afflalo | L. Galloway | K. O'Quinn | L. Thomas | D. Williams	23:23	-3.3	-22.0	+.071	+4.0	-2.2	+.167	+.107	+21.1	+25.8	-.154	+18.5	
3  C. Anthony | L. Galloway | J. Grant | K. Seraphin | L. Thomas	26:27	+9.9	-13.6	+.169	+3.8	-1.1	+.222	+.193	-7.6	-7.8	-.029	+16.1
4  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | L. Thomas	        64:42	+1.2	-12.4	+.080	+0.6	+1.0	+.016	+.089	+13.1	+5.6	+.342	+16.0
5  C. Anthony | J. Calderon | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	34:22	+5.0	-13.7	+.108	+3.1	+3.3	+.119	+.128	-1.2	-10.1	+.273	+11.9
6  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | K. Porzingis | L. Thomas	41:10	-0.3	-11.6	+.053	+4.4	+12.0	+.005	+.084	+4.0	+0.3	+.152	+7.7
7  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	77:49	-4.0	+8.6	-.083	+1.2	+0.2	+.045	-.080	+14.0	+16.5	+.072	+7.2
10 A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	641:39	-0.7	-2.7	+.006	+0.2	-1.9	+.041	+.008	-0.6	-3.5	+.131	-1.8

BRIGGS wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm only open to changes because it seems neither the starting 5 or current bench is doing well enough to win games. We have to be the only team in the league who loses this much after such a solid start and doesn't even think about making an adjustment to the rotation/starting units. I mean we treat Afflalo/Calderon like they're proven championship players and can turn it around.

Sometimes just making 1 or 2 changes to a starter can totally change the rotation and dymamic of the team. For instance with O'Quinn/Porzingis/Melo/Galloway/Calderon - the lineup I suggested - the Knicks can often have their bigs both up high and keep the lane open. We can post up Melo or we could let guys off the dribble get into the paint and have open shots from Porzingis/O'Quinn. Not saying it's going to change the season completely, but to not look at changes when you're on this kind of losing run, is down right ridiculous.

Right--I dont think people are getting it. What Oquinn can do is OPEN up the lane for others. Having Lopez in there clogs it . Oquinn can play in/out while Lopez ONLY plays in. Its not to say Lopez is bad --quite the contrary--its simply changing the dynamics of unit 1.

That is fine if he plays like he did last game and not most of the season. Maybe he should solidify his spot as the back up center before he moves into the starting line up. Hopefully Rambis has been giving him minutes based on work/play in practice as well.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the first column is total minutes for the season. So all those numbers (except the 10th lineup) are based on a ridiculously small number of minutes (like 30).
Where did you go for those numbers? I used to use 82games.com but it's no longer updated.

Got this from NBA Reference. You seem to have totally missed the point of the stats. The #10 best lineup is actually our starting lineup for the season. Outside of that starting group there is almost no consistent 5 man lineup that would approach the same amount of minutes. There are other 5 man line ups but they sucked so I didn't post them. There would be no point in listing them!!! The point is to identify who played well together and when you're a losing team, throwing all kinds of stuff at the wall to see what sticks, the amount of time that those best 5 man line ups will have will be short.

Regular Season: 5-Man Combinations 
Net (Per 100 Poss)
Rk	            Lineup	                                        MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	PTS ▾		
1  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | K. Porzingis | D. Williams	26:46	+11.0	+10.0	+.066	+4.3	+4.7	+.078	+.082	-5.6	-19.4	+.173	+20.8	
2  A. Afflalo | L. Galloway | K. O'Quinn | L. Thomas | D. Williams	23:23	-3.3	-22.0	+.071	+4.0	-2.2	+.167	+.107	+21.1	+25.8	-.154	+18.5	
3  C. Anthony | L. Galloway | J. Grant | K. Seraphin | L. Thomas	26:27	+9.9	-13.6	+.169	+3.8	-1.1	+.222	+.193	-7.6	-7.8	-.029	+16.1
4  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | L. Thomas	        64:42	+1.2	-12.4	+.080	+0.6	+1.0	+.016	+.089	+13.1	+5.6	+.342	+16.0
5  C. Anthony | J. Calderon | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	34:22	+5.0	-13.7	+.108	+3.1	+3.3	+.119	+.128	-1.2	-10.1	+.273	+11.9
6  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | K. Porzingis | L. Thomas	41:10	-0.3	-11.6	+.053	+4.4	+12.0	+.005	+.084	+4.0	+0.3	+.152	+7.7
7  A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | L. Galloway | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	77:49	-4.0	+8.6	-.083	+1.2	+0.2	+.045	-.080	+14.0	+16.5	+.072	+7.2
10 A. Afflalo | C. Anthony | J. Calderon | R. Lopez | K. Porzingis	641:39	-0.7	-2.7	+.006	+0.2	-1.9	+.041	+.008	-0.6	-3.5	+.131	-1.8

OK but just by chance a few lineups will have good numbers in 30 minute samples. I'm guessing if you give those top 7 lineups enough time, they'll go into negative territory.

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm only open to changes because it seems neither the starting 5 or current bench is doing well enough to win games. We have to be the only team in the league who loses this much after such a solid start and doesn't even think about making an adjustment to the rotation/starting units. I mean we treat Afflalo/Calderon like they're proven championship players and can turn it around.

Sometimes just making 1 or 2 changes to a starter can totally change the rotation and dymamic of the team. For instance with O'Quinn/Porzingis/Melo/Galloway/Calderon - the lineup I suggested - the Knicks can often have their bigs both up high and keep the lane open. We can post up Melo or we could let guys off the dribble get into the paint and have open shots from Porzingis/O'Quinn. Not saying it's going to change the season completely, but to not look at changes when you're on this kind of losing run, is down right ridiculous.

Right--I dont think people are getting it. What Oquinn can do is OPEN up the lane for others. Having Lopez in there clogs it . Oquinn can play in/out while Lopez ONLY plays in. Its not to say Lopez is bad --quite the contrary--its simply changing the dynamics of unit 1.

That is fine if he plays like he did last game and not most of the season. Maybe he should solidify his spot as the back up center before he moves into the starting line up. Hopefully Rambis has been giving him minutes based on work/play in practice as well.

The whole knick offense stinks. Triangle or not it's really based on singular play. It's not about 1 guy it's a team wide epidemic Step 1 is to reintroduce team wide spacing and I'd rather go with Galloway and oquinn. Lopez and Affalo are good at individual skills but I don't think they lay the foundation for ball movement. This team has rudimentary basketball iq. We're not good at the basics of team basketball. Just listening to the comments that thy had a tough defensive practice tells me they have coaches lost in 1993

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm only open to changes because it seems neither the starting 5 or current bench is doing well enough to win games. We have to be the only team in the league who loses this much after such a solid start and doesn't even think about making an adjustment to the rotation/starting units. I mean we treat Afflalo/Calderon like they're proven championship players and can turn it around.

Sometimes just making 1 or 2 changes to a starter can totally change the rotation and dymamic of the team. For instance with O'Quinn/Porzingis/Melo/Galloway/Calderon - the lineup I suggested - the Knicks can often have their bigs both up high and keep the lane open. We can post up Melo or we could let guys off the dribble get into the paint and have open shots from Porzingis/O'Quinn. Not saying it's going to change the season completely, but to not look at changes when you're on this kind of losing run, is down right ridiculous.

Right--I dont think people are getting it. What Oquinn can do is OPEN up the lane for others. Having Lopez in there clogs it . Oquinn can play in/out while Lopez ONLY plays in. Its not to say Lopez is bad --quite the contrary--its simply changing the dynamics of unit 1.

That is fine if he plays like he did last game and not most of the season. Maybe he should solidify his spot as the back up center before he moves into the starting line up. Hopefully Rambis has been giving him minutes based on work/play in practice as well.

The whole knick offense stinks. Triangle or not it's really based on singular play. It's not about 1 guy it's a team wide epidemic Step 1 is to reintroduce team wide spacing and I'd rather go with Galloway and oquinn. Lopez and Affalo are good at individual skills but I don't think they lay the foundation for ball movement. This team has rudimentary basketball iq. We're not good at the basics of team basketball. Just listening to the comments that thy had a tough defensive practice tells me they have coaches lost in 1993

There's really no metric I can find that would give KO an offensive edge over RoLo. You're saying KO helps spread the offense but he's shooting 40.4% on perimeter 2s and 18.8% on 3s. If you want a guy who can stand on the perimeter and miss shots, I bet Lopez could hit 1 in 6 3-pointers too.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm only open to changes because it seems neither the starting 5 or current bench is doing well enough to win games. We have to be the only team in the league who loses this much after such a solid start and doesn't even think about making an adjustment to the rotation/starting units. I mean we treat Afflalo/Calderon like they're proven championship players and can turn it around.

Sometimes just making 1 or 2 changes to a starter can totally change the rotation and dymamic of the team. For instance with O'Quinn/Porzingis/Melo/Galloway/Calderon - the lineup I suggested - the Knicks can often have their bigs both up high and keep the lane open. We can post up Melo or we could let guys off the dribble get into the paint and have open shots from Porzingis/O'Quinn. Not saying it's going to change the season completely, but to not look at changes when you're on this kind of losing run, is down right ridiculous.

Right--I dont think people are getting it. What Oquinn can do is OPEN up the lane for others. Having Lopez in there clogs it . Oquinn can play in/out while Lopez ONLY plays in. Its not to say Lopez is bad --quite the contrary--its simply changing the dynamics of unit 1.

That is fine if he plays like he did last game and not most of the season. Maybe he should solidify his spot as the back up center before he moves into the starting line up. Hopefully Rambis has been giving him minutes based on work/play in practice as well.

The whole knick offense stinks. Triangle or not it's really based on singular play. It's not about 1 guy it's a team wide epidemic Step 1 is to reintroduce team wide spacing and I'd rather go with Galloway and oquinn. Lopez and Affalo are good at individual skills but I don't think they lay the foundation for ball movement. This team has rudimentary basketball iq. We're not good at the basics of team basketball. Just listening to the comments that thy had a tough defensive practice tells me they have coaches lost in 1993

There's really no metric I can find that would give KO an offensive edge over RoLo. You're saying KO helps spread the offense but he's shooting 40.4% on perimeter 2s and 18.8% on 3s. If you want a guy who can stand on the perimeter and miss shots, I bet Lopez could hit 1 in 6 3-pointers too.

your posts really make me laugh. Nice that someone else gets it.