Im kinda surprised the Celtics seemed very interested to deal with us. I thought they were dead set on Kevin Love. Anyway that NTC does really handcuff us but that is a typical Dolan move
he is still here because he didnt waive his no trade clause i thought we all knew that
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im kinda surprised the Celtics seemed very interested to deal with us. I thought they were dead set on Kevin Love. Anyway that NTC does really handcuff us but that is a typical Dolan move
I'm really trying to understand the reasoning behind including the NTC. Like if Melo's agent said he won't resign unless it's in the contract, why didn't Phil or Dolan say "See ya".
Like Melo gets paid mucho dinero no matter what, it's all guaranteed. Guess he really likes the brutal winters in New York promoting and building his brand rather than winning.
dacash wrote:he is still here because he didnt waive his no trade clause i thought we all knew that
Yes, but there was a suitor that we could've parted ways with him if he was a reasonable adult. They have a good young roster in Boston, good young head coach, good upper management, and it's still not far away from New York. He could've been the next "Paul Pierce" up there.
Dude just cares about cashing checks, nothing else.
ChuckBuck wrote:dacash wrote:he is still here because he didnt waive his no trade clause i thought we all knew that
Yes, but there was a suitor that we could've parted ways with him if he was a reasonable adult. They have a good young roster in Boston, good young head coach, good upper management, and it's still not far away from New York. He could've been the next "Paul Pierce" up there.
Dude just cares about cashing checks, nothing else.
He could still be cashing checks in BOS; remember that his money is gauranteed. As good/promising as the Celtics are, I don't see how adding Anthony puts them over the top. Wouldn't be surprised if Melo felt the same way. I wouldn't be surprised to see Melo head to LAC this offseason and Blake to BOS though. Pull PHO into the deal, who has PJ Tucker and Tyson Chandler to play with in exchange for picks and you can see how something could take form that makes sense to all sides:
☆Celtics get Griffin and Tyson Chandler
☆Suns get Tyler Zeller or Kelly Olynk, Jordan Mickey and two Celtic first round picks (one being the pick PHO gave up in the Branden Wright deal).
☆Clippers get Melo, PJ Tucker and Jose Calderon
☆Knicks get BKNs 2016 first round pick, Terry Rozier, James Young, the (estimated) 21st pick in this year's draft, a future BOS pick and $25 million of cap savings. (I'd probably parlay Rozier, Young and cash to the Sixers for another late first rounder in this year's draft with the intent on moving up). I'd also move Robin Lopez in a seperate deal with the Mavs for their 2017 first round pick (protection to be determined).
ChuckBuck wrote:dacash wrote:he is still here because he didnt waive his no trade clause i thought we all knew that
Yes, but there was a suitor that we could've parted ways with him if he was a reasonable adult. They have a good young roster in Boston, good young head coach, good upper management, and it's still not far away from New York. He could've been the next "Paul Pierce" up there.
Dude just cares about cashing checks, nothing else.
Chucky this is BS. He cares about winning but also his family and being in the right situation for himself. Boston is a very racist city. Stop dumping on melo because the Knicks suck. He's leading the Knicks in scoring, rebounding and assists.
From the Knicks perspective it makes sense to wait. Why?
- The wait and see scenario. We have cap space to potentially add another star player alongside Melo. Probably won't happen, but I think management at the very least wants to give it a shot. Trading Melo means more space, but less likeliness for any top tier free agent coming this way. Dolan likely wants to see if this works first.
- Right now its harder to put a trade together. Completing the trade during this season means potentially taking back unwanted players whose salary extend past this year. With the cap going up and teams having Cap space, a trade in the next year could mean Boston absorbing more salary than they send back, and a more flexible trade scenario.
- Melo refusing. Melo right now may not have wanted to be traded...but if we strike out on FAs this off-season he may change his tune and open up the possibilities of destinations for him. More suitors means a better return for the Knicks.
- The offer from the Celtics is probably not going away. The Celtics will still have picks, and likely won't contend for a championship with the guys they have, so the Knicks have little to lose by waiting?
Andrew wrote:From the Knicks perspective it makes sense to wait. Why? - The wait and see scenario. We have cap space to potentially add another star player alongside Melo. Probably won't happen, but I think management at the very least wants to give it a shot. Trading Melo means more space, but less likeliness for any top tier free agent coming this way. Dolan likely wants to see if this works first.
- Right now its harder to put a trade together. Completing the trade during this season means potentially taking back unwanted players whose salary extend past this year. With the cap going up and teams having Cap space, a trade in the next year could mean Boston absorbing more salary than they send back, and a more flexible trade scenario.
- Melo refusing. Melo right now may not have wanted to be traded...but if we strike out on FAs this off-season he may change his tune and open up the possibilities of destinations for him. More suitors means a better return for the Knicks.
- The offer from the Celtics is probably not going away. The Celtics will still have picks, and likely won't contend for a championship with the guys they have, so the Knicks have little to lose by waiting?
Good Point Andrew. Its better to wait until after the season to engage in serious trade discussions
Andrew wrote:From the Knicks perspective it makes sense to wait. Why? - The wait and see scenario. We have cap space to potentially add another star player alongside Melo. Probably won't happen, but I think management at the very least wants to give it a shot. Trading Melo means more space, but less likeliness for any top tier free agent coming this way. Dolan likely wants to see if this works first.
- Right now its harder to put a trade together. Completing the trade during this season means potentially taking back unwanted players whose salary extend past this year. With the cap going up and teams having Cap space, a trade in the next year could mean Boston absorbing more salary than they send back, and a more flexible trade scenario.
- Melo refusing. Melo right now may not have wanted to be traded...but if we strike out on FAs this off-season he may change his tune and open up the possibilities of destinations for him. More suitors means a better return for the Knicks.
- The offer from the Celtics is probably not going away. The Celtics will still have picks, and likely won't contend for a championship with the guys they have, so the Knicks have little to lose by waiting?
I hope you guys are right, because anything could happen between now and the end of the season.
Melo tears something, breaks something, falls on LaLa's big ass. I'm dead serious. If he gets injured before the end of the season, nobody will come a knocking and we're stuck with him ala Allan Houston. Kaput trade value.
for all his faults, and he has many. he is playing the very best basketball of his career, and he is desperate to bring winning to new York. He is leading the knicks in several categories and has inconsistent help and a half bad knee, give him some credit. while i totally agree his being gone for draft picks and younger players would be nice. most ppl are dumping on the only guy actually trying.
i think he will weigh his options and prolly be gone this summer.but as i said he seems to be overall the only one that somewhat consistant
I think the NTC and Melo's unwillingness to waive it has most to do with LaLa. Melo is laid back, and to his credit he's a family man. It's not really sinister or selfish on Melo's part.
But it's a sad state for fan's that Dolan allowed this to be in the contract.
I doubt Phil was in favor. But then again, Phil is so cocky he probly thought he could make the NTC just go away later through meditation or sweet talking Melo.
ChuckBuck wrote:dacash wrote:he is still here because he didnt waive his no trade clause i thought we all knew that
Yes, but there was a suitor that we could've parted ways with him if he was a reasonable adult. They have a good young roster in Boston, good young head coach, good upper management, and it's still not far away from New York. He could've been the next "Paul Pierce" up there.
Dude just cares about cashing checks, nothing else.
Terrible comment. What does that have to do with him waiving his NTC? He gets paid regardless. He didn't waive it because he wants to be in NY.
anrst wrote:I think the NTC and Melo's unwillingness to waive it has most to do with LaLa. Melo is laid back, and to his credit he's a family man. It's not really sinister or selfish on Melo's part. But it's a sad state for fan's that Dolan allowed this to be in the contract.
I doubt Phil was in favor. But then again, Phil is so cocky he probly thought he could make the NTC just go away later through meditation or sweet talking Melo.
Yea I think you're on to something. If Phil objected to Dolan, I'm sure they would've hardlined it, and Melo would have to think even harder about that Chicago decision.
Phil probably thought his "presence" and basketball stature was enough to convince Melo once things went south. So far Phil has been wrong about alot of things: Fisher, Calderon, Melo waiving his NTC.
Thank God he got the most important thing right so far during his tenure.
Phil will get one last chance to right wrongs this off-season. Maybe slip Melo some peyote or some magical tea of enlightenment to waive that NTC finally and make something happen. And get a dam point guard for chrissakes Phil!!!
Andrew wrote:From the Knicks perspective it makes sense to wait. Why? - The wait and see scenario. We have cap space to potentially add another star player alongside Melo. Probably won't happen, but I think management at the very least wants to give it a shot. Trading Melo means more space, but less likeliness for any top tier free agent coming this way. Dolan likely wants to see if this works first.
- Right now its harder to put a trade together. Completing the trade during this season means potentially taking back unwanted players whose salary extend past this year. With the cap going up and teams having Cap space, a trade in the next year could mean Boston absorbing more salary than they send back, and a more flexible trade scenario.
- Melo refusing. Melo right now may not have wanted to be traded...but if we strike out on FAs this off-season he may change his tune and open up the possibilities of destinations for him. More suitors means a better return for the Knicks.
- The offer from the Celtics is probably not going away. The Celtics will still have picks, and likely won't contend for a championship with the guys they have, so the Knicks have little to lose by waiting?
All great points. My only concern is that if the Brooklyn pick becomes the no.1 overall pick in the draft, we lose leverage in negotiations with Boston. The current uncertainty of the pick devalues it, which allows us to ask for more than it during trade talks.
Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:dacash wrote:he is still here because he didnt waive his no trade clause i thought we all knew that
Yes, but there was a suitor that we could've parted ways with him if he was a reasonable adult. They have a good young roster in Boston, good young head coach, good upper management, and it's still not far away from New York. He could've been the next "Paul Pierce" up there.
Dude just cares about cashing checks, nothing else.
Terrible comment. What does that have to do with him waiving his NTC? He gets paid regardless. He didn't waive it because he wants to be in NY.
It's actually a pretty accurate comment. If he wanted to win he'd go play in Chicago. He didn't want to short change himself $30m though.
ChuckBuck wrote:Andrew wrote:From the Knicks perspective it makes sense to wait. Why? - The wait and see scenario. We have cap space to potentially add another star player alongside Melo. Probably won't happen, but I think management at the very least wants to give it a shot. Trading Melo means more space, but less likeliness for any top tier free agent coming this way. Dolan likely wants to see if this works first.
- Right now its harder to put a trade together. Completing the trade during this season means potentially taking back unwanted players whose salary extend past this year. With the cap going up and teams having Cap space, a trade in the next year could mean Boston absorbing more salary than they send back, and a more flexible trade scenario.
- Melo refusing. Melo right now may not have wanted to be traded...but if we strike out on FAs this off-season he may change his tune and open up the possibilities of destinations for him. More suitors means a better return for the Knicks.
- The offer from the Celtics is probably not going away. The Celtics will still have picks, and likely won't contend for a championship with the guys they have, so the Knicks have little to lose by waiting?
I hope you guys are right, because anything could happen between now and the end of the season.
Melo tears something, breaks something, falls on LaLa's big ass. I'm dead serious. If he gets injured before the end of the season, nobody will come a knocking and we're stuck with him ala Allan Houston. Kaput trade value.
+1. That point perfectly encapsulates the other part of my fears.
NardDogNation wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Andrew wrote:From the Knicks perspective it makes sense to wait. Why? - The wait and see scenario. We have cap space to potentially add another star player alongside Melo. Probably won't happen, but I think management at the very least wants to give it a shot. Trading Melo means more space, but less likeliness for any top tier free agent coming this way. Dolan likely wants to see if this works first.
- Right now its harder to put a trade together. Completing the trade during this season means potentially taking back unwanted players whose salary extend past this year. With the cap going up and teams having Cap space, a trade in the next year could mean Boston absorbing more salary than they send back, and a more flexible trade scenario.
- Melo refusing. Melo right now may not have wanted to be traded...but if we strike out on FAs this off-season he may change his tune and open up the possibilities of destinations for him. More suitors means a better return for the Knicks.
- The offer from the Celtics is probably not going away. The Celtics will still have picks, and likely won't contend for a championship with the guys they have, so the Knicks have little to lose by waiting?
I hope you guys are right, because anything could happen between now and the end of the season.
Melo tears something, breaks something, falls on LaLa's big ass. I'm dead serious. If he gets injured before the end of the season, nobody will come a knocking and we're stuck with him ala Allan Houston. Kaput trade value.
+1. That point perfectly encapsulates the other part of my fears.
Thanks. At least some fans are thinking with their head instead of their heart.
Logic dictates we get out from under the albatross while we still can, not ride it until we sink.
ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:dacash wrote:he is still here because he didnt waive his no trade clause i thought we all knew that
Yes, but there was a suitor that we could've parted ways with him if he was a reasonable adult. They have a good young roster in Boston, good young head coach, good upper management, and it's still not far away from New York. He could've been the next "Paul Pierce" up there.
Dude just cares about cashing checks, nothing else.
Terrible comment. What does that have to do with him waiving his NTC? He gets paid regardless. He didn't waive it because he wants to be in NY.
It's actually a pretty accurate comment. If he wanted to win he'd go play in Chicago. He didn't want to short change himself $30m though.
It is accurate as far as signing his contract 2 years ago. Now he has the money no matter where he is playing. If all he cares about is cashing checks, why does he refuse to waive his NTC? Good teams want him. Is it because, just maybe, he wants to stay in NY (at least for the time being)? Dude just cares about cashing checks...and playing for the Knicks, hence why he won't waive his NTC at this time. Fair enough?
Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:dacash wrote:he is still here because he didnt waive his no trade clause i thought we all knew that
Yes, but there was a suitor that we could've parted ways with him if he was a reasonable adult. They have a good young roster in Boston, good young head coach, good upper management, and it's still not far away from New York. He could've been the next "Paul Pierce" up there.
Dude just cares about cashing checks, nothing else.
Terrible comment. What does that have to do with him waiving his NTC? He gets paid regardless. He didn't waive it because he wants to be in NY.
It's actually a pretty accurate comment. If he wanted to win he'd go play in Chicago. He didn't want to short change himself $30m though.
It is accurate as far as signing his contract 2 years ago. Now he has the money no matter where he is playing. If all he cares about is cashing checks, why does he refuse to waive his NTC? Good teams want him. Is it because, just maybe, he wants to stay in NY (at least for the time being)? Dude just cares about cashing checks...and playing for the Knicks, hence why he won't waive his NTC at this time. Fair enough?
He wants to stay in NY, but doesn't give 2 shyts about the Knicks. He loves the lifestyle and connections, the media and business opportunities for his wife, the good prep school for Kiyan, and he gets to be New York's biggest basketball celebrity (well 2nd to KP6).
Other than that I don't think he truly bleeds orange and blue. He's a merc like Darrelle Revis. You'll see this offseason.
It wouldn't shock me if part of the plan the rest of the year is to play Melo heavy minutes to see what he can do and at the same time give Melo a strong indication that he won't be able to do it here. Melo looks like he's coming to the realization that he needs to move on. Remember in 2014 his people were saying "get the money now, you can always get to another place by trade". The NTC accomplishes that for Melo. NY can never trade Melo to a place he doesn't want to go.
I'm iffy he'd want to go to Boston. I think he'd want to to Miami, the Clippers or the Bulls.
I'd do the following deals in the summer.
Clippers - Direct swap with Griffen, if they are willing (which after Blake's year they may be, but I think in the end they still pass)
Bulls - Gasol (sign and trade starting salary at 12 Million per), McDermott and Mirotcic. We'd give back some pieces along with Melo as well.
Heat - Winslow and Deng (sign and trade) or Winslow and Dragic
