Knicks · WHY is this guy still here!??! (page 5)

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Melo has no interest in going to Boston. That is why he has the NTC. If he goes anywhere it will be LA, Miami or Cleveland. That's all.

Right now, stay the course and develop a back court for next year. To that end, must find out about Grant, Jimmer and Gallo the rest of the way. Calderon and AA, IMO, should be gone any way possible.

Yea unfortunately we're in wait and see mode with this hanging on Melo for the rest of the season. I actually want him as healthy as can be and wouldn't mind Rambis sitting him the rest of the way. If it comes to that bridge in June, we'll be able to get maximum assets wherever he ends up.

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

Well that's your opinion and only yours and just so you know......you don't just get that chance to draft players like S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green just because you have draft picks so you don't just say we can build a team like the GSW cause it just doesn't happen.

You are correct, it takes luck and patience.

But there way is the right model to follow. Once San An got Duncan, they built around him and replenished and sustained. Both GS and San An added and amassed pieces through the draft or overseas. You keep drafting and drafting until you hit. Once you use this successful model, you can splurge add an Aldridge or Iguodala and convince a David West to leave 12m on the table for a 1.4m vet min salary.

It takes years to get right, so why not follow what Championship teams do?

There is not just 1 model to follow. Once SA got Duncan they did not trade away DRobinson in the same way you are suggesting to trade away Melo.

Right now the Knicks are in a different position than those teams and need to follow their own path. They don't have a draft pick this year but do have cap space and holes to fill.

I agree that there's multiple ways to skin a cat. It could be Golden State's way, it could be San Antonio's way. Hell it could be the Boston Celtics(2008 edition) or Miami Heat way, if the stars align (literally).

But I think most sports people would shine a light on the way San An and Golden State did it, because it was organic, and it was home grown.

They nurtured Curry and Thompson. Got a diamond in the rough in Draymond. Got a promising wing in Barnes. Got hungry vets like Iguodala, Barbosa, and Livingston.

Similar thing happened with SA. Drafted Duncan. Had David Robinson who swallowed his pride and became a role player the last couple of years of his career. Drafted Parker, drafted Ginobili in the 2nd round. Seemingly drafted and stashed every decent Euro big in history. Drafted an absolute gem in Leonard. All the while they kept that core of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker forever it seems.

I want the Knicks to be like the Warriors and Spurs. I don't know that Melo will accept the "David Robinson" role player role to Kristaps "Duncan". I do know that the Knicks have some cap space and their first rounders in 2017 and 2018, so there's hope to copy a Golden State 5 year plan. I'm hoping Melo comes to his senses and Phil can parlay him into future Draymond's and Parker's for KP's future franchise cornerstone.

That's my dream scenario...

Wait, you must have hated that the Spurs didn't immediately trade away DRobinson cause it didn't follow your "organic" plan, whatever that means? Your plan only includes players orginally drafted by team? Is that your meaning?

You don't think the Knicks can't nurture KP, Willy, Gallo, Grant while having Melo, and some other signee's?

I don't get it. Is Melo not "hungry" enough for you? So hungry he wants it known that he both won't chase money elsewhere, won't follow LeBron mode of staying homegrown in his own Miami beach palace and won't deactivate NTC?

Seems to me you have 1 answer for everything, Melo NEEDS to be traded away for picks. That's your only thing. Which is nice and all but not the only way to go about business, and right now, not realistically gonna happen.

DRob could play defense and rebound like a mutherphucker even when his skills and athleticism eroded. That's the role he played to Tim Duncan superstar.

Can't say the same for Melo. If his shot is off and his legs aren't there...what does he bring. He can't defend, he could barely defend Myles Turner last night. That's just truth, man.

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

Well that's your opinion and only yours and just so you know......you don't just get that chance to draft players like S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green just because you have draft picks so you don't just say we can build a team like the GSW cause it just doesn't happen.

You are correct, it takes luck and patience.

But there way is the right model to follow. Once San An got Duncan, they built around him and replenished and sustained. Both GS and San An added and amassed pieces through the draft or overseas. You keep drafting and drafting until you hit. Once you use this successful model, you can splurge add an Aldridge or Iguodala and convince a David West to leave 12m on the table for a 1.4m vet min salary.

It takes years to get right, so why not follow what Championship teams do?

There is not just 1 model to follow. Once SA got Duncan they did not trade away DRobinson in the same way you are suggesting to trade away Melo.

Right now the Knicks are in a different position than those teams and need to follow their own path. They don't have a draft pick this year but do have cap space and holes to fill.

I agree that there's multiple ways to skin a cat. It could be Golden State's way, it could be San Antonio's way. Hell it could be the Boston Celtics(2008 edition) or Miami Heat way, if the stars align (literally).

But I think most sports people would shine a light on the way San An and Golden State did it, because it was organic, and it was home grown.

They nurtured Curry and Thompson. Got a diamond in the rough in Draymond. Got a promising wing in Barnes. Got hungry vets like Iguodala, Barbosa, and Livingston.

Similar thing happened with SA. Drafted Duncan. Had David Robinson who swallowed his pride and became a role player the last couple of years of his career. Drafted Parker, drafted Ginobili in the 2nd round. Seemingly drafted and stashed every decent Euro big in history. Drafted an absolute gem in Leonard. All the while they kept that core of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker forever it seems.

I want the Knicks to be like the Warriors and Spurs. I don't know that Melo will accept the "David Robinson" role player role to Kristaps "Duncan". I do know that the Knicks have some cap space and their first rounders in 2017 and 2018, so there's hope to copy a Golden State 5 year plan. I'm hoping Melo comes to his senses and Phil can parlay him into future Draymond's and Parker's for KP's future franchise cornerstone.

That's my dream scenario...

Wait, you must have hated that the Spurs didn't immediately trade away DRobinson cause it didn't follow your "organic" plan, whatever that means? Your plan only includes players orginally drafted by team? Is that your meaning?

You don't think the Knicks can't nurture KP, Willy, Gallo, Grant while having Melo, and some other signee's?

I don't get it. Is Melo not "hungry" enough for you? So hungry he wants it known that he both won't chase money elsewhere, won't follow LeBron mode of staying homegrown in his own Miami beach palace and won't deactivate NTC?

Seems to me you have 1 answer for everything, Melo NEEDS to be traded away for picks. That's your only thing. Which is nice and all but not the only way to go about business, and right now, not realistically gonna happen.

DRob could play defense and rebound like a mutherphucker even when his skills and athleticism eroded. That's the role he played to Tim Duncan superstar.

Can't say the same for Melo. If his shot is off and his legs aren't there...what does he bring. He can't defend, he could barely defend Myles Turner last night. That's just truth, man.

OK, well now you are changing the argument. First, it's that you want a complete or real rebuild, having KP in hand and trading away Melo for assets.

And if you want to talk only in truths, you are going to have to wait on the NTC, because that's the truth. Also, please also acknowledge that having DadMelo around KP will certainly accelerate KP's growth timeline, that is also the truth.

Are we just talking truth's or just your want to trade away Melo at any cost?

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

Well that's your opinion and only yours and just so you know......you don't just get that chance to draft players like S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green just because you have draft picks so you don't just say we can build a team like the GSW cause it just doesn't happen.

You are correct, it takes luck and patience.

But there way is the right model to follow. Once San An got Duncan, they built around him and replenished and sustained. Both GS and San An added and amassed pieces through the draft or overseas. You keep drafting and drafting until you hit. Once you use this successful model, you can splurge add an Aldridge or Iguodala and convince a David West to leave 12m on the table for a 1.4m vet min salary.

It takes years to get right, so why not follow what Championship teams do?

There is not just 1 model to follow. Once SA got Duncan they did not trade away DRobinson in the same way you are suggesting to trade away Melo.

Right now the Knicks are in a different position than those teams and need to follow their own path. They don't have a draft pick this year but do have cap space and holes to fill.

I agree that there's multiple ways to skin a cat. It could be Golden State's way, it could be San Antonio's way. Hell it could be the Boston Celtics(2008 edition) or Miami Heat way, if the stars align (literally).

But I think most sports people would shine a light on the way San An and Golden State did it, because it was organic, and it was home grown.

They nurtured Curry and Thompson. Got a diamond in the rough in Draymond. Got a promising wing in Barnes. Got hungry vets like Iguodala, Barbosa, and Livingston.

Similar thing happened with SA. Drafted Duncan. Had David Robinson who swallowed his pride and became a role player the last couple of years of his career. Drafted Parker, drafted Ginobili in the 2nd round. Seemingly drafted and stashed every decent Euro big in history. Drafted an absolute gem in Leonard. All the while they kept that core of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker forever it seems.

I want the Knicks to be like the Warriors and Spurs. I don't know that Melo will accept the "David Robinson" role player role to Kristaps "Duncan". I do know that the Knicks have some cap space and their first rounders in 2017 and 2018, so there's hope to copy a Golden State 5 year plan. I'm hoping Melo comes to his senses and Phil can parlay him into future Draymond's and Parker's for KP's future franchise cornerstone.

That's my dream scenario...

Wait, you must have hated that the Spurs didn't immediately trade away DRobinson cause it didn't follow your "organic" plan, whatever that means? Your plan only includes players orginally drafted by team? Is that your meaning?

You don't think the Knicks can't nurture KP, Willy, Gallo, Grant while having Melo, and some other signee's?

I don't get it. Is Melo not "hungry" enough for you? So hungry he wants it known that he both won't chase money elsewhere, won't follow LeBron mode of staying homegrown in his own Miami beach palace and won't deactivate NTC?

Seems to me you have 1 answer for everything, Melo NEEDS to be traded away for picks. That's your only thing. Which is nice and all but not the only way to go about business, and right now, not realistically gonna happen.

DRob could play defense and rebound like a mutherphucker even when his skills and athleticism eroded. That's the role he played to Tim Duncan superstar.

Can't say the same for Melo. If his shot is off and his legs aren't there...what does he bring. He can't defend, he could barely defend Myles Turner last night. That's just truth, man.

OK, well now you are changing the argument. First, it's that you want a complete or real rebuild, having KP in hand and trading away Melo for assets.

And if you want to talk only in truths, you are going to have to wait on the NTC, because that's the truth. Also, please also acknowledge that having DadMelo around KP will certainly accelerate KP's growth timeline, that is also the truth.

Are we just talking truth's or just your want to trade away Melo at any cost?

Wouldn't trading Melo for draft picks in a year we don't have draft picks, speed up the rebuild? Wouldn't that expedite the 5-6 year plan to like 3 or 4 maybe?

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't understand why people are puzzled with the NTC. It's a significant power for a player who doesn't want to end up in a city they don't want to be in. In the end if Melo wants to leave he will make that known to Phil and really for the Knicks there is no major disadvantage of this unless Melo gets hurt, but that would be the case even without the NTC.

The problem isn't Melo's presence on the team. The problem is the lack of a quality Backcourt!!! Melo's presence doesn't stop the Knicks from being able to upgrade the roster at the Guard Spots. There's this notion that somehow we'd be better off with a trade and really we don't know that for sure. Furthermore any trade of Melo and his huge salary is going to have to bring back a lot of salary as well. I'd like to see some trade ideas that would be good for NY but have been checked thru Trade Checker to see if they're valid.

Not everyone is confused by the NTC just a couple and You're exactly right.....you give a legit back court to put with Melo, KP and Rolo and we're a totally different team. That's why i keep saying to give Phil two more seasons to finish the rebuild cause he can add a significant piece this off season and another the following off season which will hopefully be what we think it should be which is a PG and a SG along with adding good pieces around them in both off seasons. Melo will then have a couple of years to get his championship and when Melo is gone we'll still have KP and all the other pieces along with all that money from getting rid of Melo's contract to add to that team.

One thing that I do appreciate is that Phil hasn't shown panic. He's made some good calls and some bad but overall he hasn't made the panic move that dooms the franchise long term. The losing is frustrating but understandable given the stage we're at in this rebuild. We all knew Jose was supposed to be the stop gap at PG and the hope was that we could get a better PG in Free Agency or maybe Jerian could show enough to take the job this year. Since that didn't happen people are up in arms. So the guy with the big target on his back is always Melo! As if he's the source of the problems.

We can all see that there is a need for a better starting Backcourt and really that was the case even with adding AA. He was likely never going to be the answer at SG long term. He's been pretty much what was expected. We had to have someone at the starting SG spot! This summer Phil will have to find a better solution at SG but lets be honest, just like PG, SG isn't going to be easy either.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Melo has no interest in going to Boston. That is why he has the NTC. If he goes anywhere it will be LA, Miami or Cleveland. That's all.

Right now, stay the course and develop a back court for next year. To that end, must find out about Grant, Jimmer and Gallo the rest of the way. Calderon and AA, IMO, should be gone any way possible.

Unfortunately i think Jimmer is what he is and unless a team wants a guy that can shoot and that's pretty much all he'll be able to do then i just don't see him making it in the NBA but i also can't see why a team wouldn't wanna keep him on the bench to use in certain situations and wouldn't mind that team being us. Gallo is what he is, i don't see him as anything more than a bench guard that will do some good things in some games and not much else in other games. Grant needs to start getting playing time and hopefully when we're mathematically out of the playoff race he'll get that time. Calderon i think they'll use the stretch provision on after the season and he'll be gone. A.Afflalo i think needs to be let go if he opts out but if he doesn't then i'd try my best to trade him and if not i still think with a better point guard playing next to him he can still be helpful.

ChuckBuck wrote:Wouldn't trading Melo for draft picks in a year we don't have draft picks, speed up the rebuild? Wouldn't that expedite the 5-6 year plan to like 3 or 4 maybe?

Truth is it would most likely slow the plan down by 4-5 years. Check out Philly or Twolves or Pelicans as examples. Note how Boston wants to TRADE FOR MELO or LOVE or BLAKE even though they have what could be that top pick.

For rookies to grow you need vets around them. And vets and winning environments with rookies on scaled back contacts attract better vets.

nixluva wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't understand why people are puzzled with the NTC. It's a significant power for a player who doesn't want to end up in a city they don't want to be in. In the end if Melo wants to leave he will make that known to Phil and really for the Knicks there is no major disadvantage of this unless Melo gets hurt, but that would be the case even without the NTC.

The problem isn't Melo's presence on the team. The problem is the lack of a quality Backcourt!!! Melo's presence doesn't stop the Knicks from being able to upgrade the roster at the Guard Spots. There's this notion that somehow we'd be better off with a trade and really we don't know that for sure. Furthermore any trade of Melo and his huge salary is going to have to bring back a lot of salary as well. I'd like to see some trade ideas that would be good for NY but have been checked thru Trade Checker to see if they're valid.

Not everyone is confused by the NTC just a couple and You're exactly right.....you give a legit back court to put with Melo, KP and Rolo and we're a totally different team. That's why i keep saying to give Phil two more seasons to finish the rebuild cause he can add a significant piece this off season and another the following off season which will hopefully be what we think it should be which is a PG and a SG along with adding good pieces around them in both off seasons. Melo will then have a couple of years to get his championship and when Melo is gone we'll still have KP and all the other pieces along with all that money from getting rid of Melo's contract to add to that team.

One thing that I do appreciate is that Phil hasn't shown panic. He's made some good calls and some bad but overall he hasn't made the panic move that dooms the franchise long term. The losing is frustrating but understandable given the stage we're at in this rebuild. We all knew Jose was supposed to be the stop gap at PG and the hope was that we could get a better PG in Free Agency or maybe Jerian could show enough to take the job this year. Since that didn't happen people are up in arms. So the guy with the big target on his back is always Melo! As if he's the source of the problems.

We can all see that there is a need for a better starting Backcourt and really that was the case even with adding AA. He was likely never going to be the answer at SG long term. He's been pretty much what was expected. We had to have someone at the starting SG spot! This summer Phil will have to find a better solution at SG but lets be honest, just like PG, SG isn't going to be easy either.

Well said and i agree.

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Wouldn't trading Melo for draft picks in a year we don't have draft picks, speed up the rebuild? Wouldn't that expedite the 5-6 year plan to like 3 or 4 maybe?

Truth is it would most likely slow the plan down by 4-5 years. Check out Philly or Twolves or Pelicans as examples. Note how Boston wants to TRADE FOR MELO or LOVE or BLAKE even though they have what could be that top pick.

For rookies to grow you need vets around them. And vets and winning environments with rookies on scaled back contacts attract better vets.

yup. the boston celtics attempting to trade FOR melo and using their assets should be blinding some folks like a bright neon light. with all the assets that the celtics have amassed they are willing to trade them for a "broken down guy with no legs." so why exactly are we giving up melo for 1st round picks and cap fodder, when a team which most on here use them as Exhibit B (Exhibit A is the Spurs) of how you build a team correctly is trying to do the same... Ainge is held in pretty high regard around here, I know that for sure.

we have melo and kp.. we now need to surround them with quality players. luckily for us, we have a ton of cap space in the summer and a guy that alot of players around the league always say they want to play with. i'll roll with that.

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Wouldn't trading Melo for draft picks in a year we don't have draft picks, speed up the rebuild? Wouldn't that expedite the 5-6 year plan to like 3 or 4 maybe?

Truth is it would most likely slow the plan down by 4-5 years. Check out Philly or Twolves or Pelicans as examples. Note how Boston wants to TRADE FOR MELO or LOVE or BLAKE even though they have what could be that top pick.

For rookies to grow you need vets around them. And vets and winning environments with rookies on scaled back contacts attract better vets.

yup. the boston celtics attempting to trade FOR melo and using their assets should be blinding some folks like a bright neon light. with all the assets that the celtics have amassed they are willing to trade them for a "broken down guy with no legs." so why exactly are we giving up melo for 1st round picks and cap fodder, when a team which most on here use them as Exhibit B (Exhibit A is the Spurs) of how you build a team correctly is trying to do the same... Ainge is held in pretty high regard around here, I know that for sure.

we have melo and kp.. we now need to surround them with quality players. luckily for us, we have a ton of cap space in the summer and a guy that alot of players around the league always say they want to play with. i'll roll with that.

+1
the constant braying of "WE need to dump Melo while other teams should feel free to be raped draft wise for him" is the height of hate-induced stupidity. We need to be Denver morphed into we need to be Indiana is now we need to be Philly... and those touting this don't even realize how stupid that all sounds, then and now.

But rest assured, we'll keep seeing thread after thread until we start winning again...

jrodmc wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Wouldn't trading Melo for draft picks in a year we don't have draft picks, speed up the rebuild? Wouldn't that expedite the 5-6 year plan to like 3 or 4 maybe?

Truth is it would most likely slow the plan down by 4-5 years. Check out Philly or Twolves or Pelicans as examples. Note how Boston wants to TRADE FOR MELO or LOVE or BLAKE even though they have what could be that top pick.

For rookies to grow you need vets around them. And vets and winning environments with rookies on scaled back contacts attract better vets.

yup. the boston celtics attempting to trade FOR melo and using their assets should be blinding some folks like a bright neon light. with all the assets that the celtics have amassed they are willing to trade them for a "broken down guy with no legs." so why exactly are we giving up melo for 1st round picks and cap fodder, when a team which most on here use them as Exhibit B (Exhibit A is the Spurs) of how you build a team correctly is trying to do the same... Ainge is held in pretty high regard around here, I know that for sure.

we have melo and kp.. we now need to surround them with quality players. luckily for us, we have a ton of cap space in the summer and a guy that alot of players around the league always say they want to play with. i'll roll with that.

+1
the constant braying of "WE need to dump Melo while other teams should feel free to be raped draft wise for him" is the height of hate-induced stupidity. We need to be Denver morphed into we need to be Indiana is now we need to be Philly... and those touting this don't even realize how stupid that all sounds, then and now.

But rest assured, we'll keep seeing thread after thread until we start winning again...

When will we start winning again? And I'm not talking about this season.

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Wouldn't trading Melo for draft picks in a year we don't have draft picks, speed up the rebuild? Wouldn't that expedite the 5-6 year plan to like 3 or 4 maybe?

Truth is it would most likely slow the plan down by 4-5 years. Check out Philly or Twolves or Pelicans as examples. Note how Boston wants to TRADE FOR MELO or LOVE or BLAKE even though they have what could be that top pick.

For rookies to grow you need vets around them. And vets and winning environments with rookies on scaled back contacts attract better vets.

yup. the boston celtics attempting to trade FOR melo and using their assets should be blinding some folks like a bright neon light. with all the assets that the celtics have amassed they are willing to trade them for a "broken down guy with no legs." so why exactly are we giving up melo for 1st round picks and cap fodder, when a team which most on here use them as Exhibit B (Exhibit A is the Spurs) of how you build a team correctly is trying to do the same... Ainge is held in pretty high regard around here, I know that for sure.

we have melo and kp.. we now need to surround them with quality players. luckily for us, we have a ton of cap space in the summer and a guy that alot of players around the league always say they want to play with. i'll roll with that.

+1
the constant braying of "WE need to dump Melo while other teams should feel free to be raped draft wise for him" is the height of hate-induced stupidity. We need to be Denver morphed into we need to be Indiana is now we need to be Philly... and those touting this don't even realize how stupid that all sounds, then and now.

But rest assured, we'll keep seeing thread after thread until we start winning again...

When will we start winning again? And I'm not talking about this season.

Right before you start typing "fools gold" "regular season is the jv season" "a few winning seasons out of 6 or 7 don't mean sheehit.."

jrodmc wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Wouldn't trading Melo for draft picks in a year we don't have draft picks, speed up the rebuild? Wouldn't that expedite the 5-6 year plan to like 3 or 4 maybe?

Truth is it would most likely slow the plan down by 4-5 years. Check out Philly or Twolves or Pelicans as examples. Note how Boston wants to TRADE FOR MELO or LOVE or BLAKE even though they have what could be that top pick.

For rookies to grow you need vets around them. And vets and winning environments with rookies on scaled back contacts attract better vets.

yup. the boston celtics attempting to trade FOR melo and using their assets should be blinding some folks like a bright neon light. with all the assets that the celtics have amassed they are willing to trade them for a "broken down guy with no legs." so why exactly are we giving up melo for 1st round picks and cap fodder, when a team which most on here use them as Exhibit B (Exhibit A is the Spurs) of how you build a team correctly is trying to do the same... Ainge is held in pretty high regard around here, I know that for sure.

we have melo and kp.. we now need to surround them with quality players. luckily for us, we have a ton of cap space in the summer and a guy that alot of players around the league always say they want to play with. i'll roll with that.

+1
the constant braying of "WE need to dump Melo while other teams should feel free to be raped draft wise for him" is the height of hate-induced stupidity. We need to be Denver morphed into we need to be Indiana is now we need to be Philly... and those touting this don't even realize how stupid that all sounds, then and now.

But rest assured, we'll keep seeing thread after thread until we start winning again...

When will we start winning again? And I'm not talking about this season.

Right before you start typing "fools gold" "regular season is the jv season" "a few winning seasons out of 6 or 7 don't mean sheehit.."

Hey you said it...

Just to put it out there, Melo said nobody in the Knicks org.ever approached him about waiving his NTC.

Don't rush the thing up. Or you want to see Philly situation happen in NY?

newyorker4ever wrote:Just to put it out there, Melo said nobody in the Knicks org.ever approached him about waiving his NTC.

Berman now saying the celtics spoke with his agent about whether he would consider a trade there.

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Dam is there an echo in here?

It's like there's a serial poster/stalker that can't stand their lovah-man getting rightfully disparaged.

Rightfully disparaged by some guy on a message board doesn't count. Do you think Melo is a much better player this year than he's been for his career or do you just have a hate towards Melo that won't change no matter how his game is these days?? I obvously get that he had a bad game last night and he really hasn't been himself at all this year cause he usually has a much better 3 ball but if we end up trading Melo in the off season then you better be ready for it to take at least 5/6 years until a team is put together that anyone will even talk about for a deep playoff run and with Melo we can be ready for a deep playoff run in two years if we can get one significant player to come play for us this off season and one significant player the following off season and then good pieces around them.

Whoa. That read like one continuous run on sentence.

I'd rather do the 5-6 year sustainable route ala Golden State. We will not compete for a Championship with a 33 or 34 year old ready to retire Melo.

Well that's your opinion and only yours and just so you know......you don't just get that chance to draft players like S.Curry, K.Thompson and D.Green just because you have draft picks so you don't just say we can build a team like the GSW cause it just doesn't happen.

You are correct, it takes luck and patience.

But there way is the right model to follow. Once San An got Duncan, they built around him and replenished and sustained. Both GS and San An added and amassed pieces through the draft or overseas. You keep drafting and drafting until you hit. Once you use this successful model, you can splurge add an Aldridge or Iguodala and convince a David West to leave 12m on the table for a 1.4m vet min salary.

It takes years to get right, so why not follow what Championship teams do?

There is not just 1 model to follow. Once SA got Duncan they did not trade away DRobinson in the same way you are suggesting to trade away Melo.

Right now the Knicks are in a different position than those teams and need to follow their own path. They don't have a draft pick this year but do have cap space and holes to fill.

I agree that there's multiple ways to skin a cat. It could be Golden State's way, it could be San Antonio's way. Hell it could be the Boston Celtics(2008 edition) or Miami Heat way, if the stars align (literally).

But I think most sports people would shine a light on the way San An and Golden State did it, because it was organic, and it was home grown.

They nurtured Curry and Thompson. Got a diamond in the rough in Draymond. Got a promising wing in Barnes. Got hungry vets like Iguodala, Barbosa, and Livingston.

Similar thing happened with SA. Drafted Duncan. Had David Robinson who swallowed his pride and became a role player the last couple of years of his career. Drafted Parker, drafted Ginobili in the 2nd round. Seemingly drafted and stashed every decent Euro big in history. Drafted an absolute gem in Leonard. All the while they kept that core of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker forever it seems.

I want the Knicks to be like the Warriors and Spurs. I don't know that Melo will accept the "David Robinson" role player role to Kristaps "Duncan". I do know that the Knicks have some cap space and their first rounders in 2017 and 2018, so there's hope to copy a Golden State 5 year plan. I'm hoping Melo comes to his senses and Phil can parlay him into future Draymond's and Parker's for KP's future franchise cornerstone.

That's my dream scenario...

Wait, you must have hated that the Spurs didn't immediately trade away DRobinson cause it didn't follow your "organic" plan, whatever that means? Your plan only includes players orginally drafted by team? Is that your meaning?

You don't think the Knicks can't nurture KP, Willy, Gallo, Grant while having Melo, and some other signee's?

I don't get it. Is Melo not "hungry" enough for you? So hungry he wants it known that he both won't chase money elsewhere, won't follow LeBron mode of staying homegrown in his own Miami beach palace and won't deactivate NTC?

Seems to me you have 1 answer for everything, Melo NEEDS to be traded away for picks. That's your only thing. Which is nice and all but not the only way to go about business, and right now, not realistically gonna happen.

DRob could play defense and rebound like a mutherphucker even when his skills and athleticism eroded. That's the role he played to Tim Duncan superstar.

Can't say the same for Melo. If his shot is off and his legs aren't there...what does he bring. He can't defend, he could barely defend Myles Turner last night. That's just truth, man.

OK, well now you are changing the argument. First, it's that you want a complete or real rebuild, having KP in hand and trading away Melo for assets.

And if you want to talk only in truths, you are going to have to wait on the NTC, because that's the truth. Also, please also acknowledge that having DadMelo around KP will certainly accelerate KP's growth timeline, that is also the truth.

Are we just talking truth's or just your want to trade away Melo at any cost?

Wouldn't trading Melo for draft picks in a year we don't have draft picks, speed up the rebuild? Wouldn't that expedite the 5-6 year plan to like 3 or 4 maybe?

I don't think so. Did you see the way Philly crashed and burned using that method? If anything, it would set us back a couple years because it is proven that to build a team it takes much more than raw talent to do so.

It's not gonna sink in to some of y'all till Melo is in his final years of his contract broken down and the Knicks still fighting for a playoff spot. Naw man, he needs to waive that ntc this summer. The Knicks would be stupid to add another player with a similar contract to Melo's while he's still here.

I hate no trade clause contracts. It is a trap yo. I'm telling you. Last season (2014-2015) I had a feeling melo knew about his knee before that season started. I think he knew his body was breaking down and cared about the money and his brand.

stopstandthere wrote:Don't rush the thing up. Or you want to see Philly situation happen in NY?

some on here actually do. They'd like to see anything but Melo with Knicks on the front of his jersey.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:Just to put it out there, Melo said nobody in the Knicks org.ever approached him about waiving his NTC.

Berman now saying the celtics spoke with his agent about whether he would consider a trade there.

and Melo keeps saying he wants to stay here. And KP enjoys playing with him and wants him to stay.

wh4t wrote:It's not gonna sink in to some of y'all till Melo is in his final years of his contract broken down and the Knicks still fighting for a playoff spot. Naw man, he needs to waive that ntc this summer. The Knicks would be stupid to add another player with a similar contract to Melo's while he's still here.

I hate no trade clause contracts. It is a trap yo. I'm telling you. Last season (2014-2015) I had a feeling melo knew about his knee before that season started. I think he knew his body was breaking down and cared about the money and his brand.

And you had these feelings come to you in a dream or did you just assume it by watching him on tv cause that would be some pretty miraculous sh*t for someone to be able to predict something like that about someone they don't know or have even seen except for on the tv set??

I would actually be good either way with Melo either staying and we keep putting pieces around him or if we trade him as long as we get a hell of a return for him. If we keep Melo and add a big piece this off season which should be a PG or SG and then add the other one the following off season then in two years we will have a team that's ready to compete for a deep playoff run and hopefully a championship and Melo will have just two more years on his contract to play with that team to make a run at a championship and then after those two years we have a KP that should be at the top of his game, Rolo who will still be just 29/30 years old but would be at the end of his contract so we can either re-sign him or use that money elsewhere, we'd have whichever PG and SG that we added which should both be top players at their positions and we have $20+ million from Melo's contract ending to add a big piece to take his place and depending on how Melo is playing at that time which he'll be 34/35 years old we could even sign him to a great deal like what P.Pierce has been doing cause i guarantee you Melo will still be a good player at 34/35 years old.