Knicks · We signed Tony Wroten to 3 year contract... (page 11)
Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:nyk4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Moonangie wrote:nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6these are horrid numbers...
Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg
jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.
Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.
Perhaps you've answered your own question. We NEED more speed, breakdown ability and athletic ability at guard. Wroten is a guard that is nearly impossible to stay in front of. With all the other things going on on the floor no team will be able to stop him. You can't guard Melo, RoLo, KP and also focus on Wroten constantly attacking.Right now there's no fear of our guards going full court or getting to the rim and finishing off of Dribble Hand Off's or just simply breaking his man down. He doesn't need a PnR in order to get to the rim!!!
wow, talk about exaggeration. no team will be able to stop him? if he's THAT good, why did A) the sixers cut him and B) no one else pick him up?
if he was that good, some team would have overpaid for him already.
Do the Sixers have Melo, KP and RoLo? Do they run the Triangle? Did they run Pinch Post with Wroten?
It's not an exaggeration. If he's on the floor with our best players as I wrote, there's no way that a team will be able to focus on stopping him! It's exactly what happened with Schved. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way it actually works out in this offense.
In the Pinch Post you have a 2 man game on one side and an overload on the other. If you put a very quick, breakdown guard on the 2 Man Side of the floor in the Pinch Post, there's no way to give help against him without leaving gaping holes in your D. If they do come to help it will leave someone open. That's how it's worked for decades and it still works.
i was really rooting for Wroten to join this squad until you opened your mouth and said "unstoppable". since you talk out of your asz all the time, now i am second guessing myself. lol
honestly...we have to gauge how quick his first step really is. and how well he can pass the ball. we do not need another jerian grant.
I talk out my AZZ? You really need to check yourself cuz I back up most of what I say. Don't confuse season predictions as the end all be all of basketball knowledge. Even the Pro Analysts get that wrong. When it comes to X's and O's or player evaluations I'm not often wrong and I present as much detail in my posts to at least make my case clear.
If you can't tell how quick Wroten is or how sick his handle is then I can't help you. Just looking at the frequency of his drives to the basket will tell you that he's at another level from any guard we have. The only issue is his level of conditioning after recovering from his ACL. When I said Wroten could be unstoppable if he's on the floor with our starters that's just LOGIC. He was not being stopped even when he was the only thing to worry about on the Sixer!!! This is without a JUMPER or other significant scoring threats. So yeah if you put him on the floor with other threats like Melo, KP, RoLo then I do believe he'd be very effective working off the attention those players would draw.
Malcolm wrote:nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)
1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.
What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.
nixluva wrote:Wroten is the second youngest player on the team. The only guy younger is KP. He also would be the second youngest player on the W-Knicks. He is very young. He is a good low risk investment with nice potential.Malcolm wrote:nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)
1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.
What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.
Malcolm wrote:nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)
Ron Harper in his first season with the Bulls. And, yes, he was absolutely their PG. Shot 61.8% Had several other seasons he shot around 66%.
He was the starting PG for the 72 win Bulls team and the 70 win team, too.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Wroten is the second youngest player on the team. The only guy younger is KP. He also would be the second youngest player on the W-Knicks. He is very young. He is a good low risk investment with nice potential.Malcolm wrote:nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)
1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.
What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.
I feel very good about the move. I'm pulling for him to have great health and success cuz he's got a lot of talent and I think his presence could help our other athletic players too. The PG who can push the ball and get the team out on the break will excite the other guys to run hard. Those players are better at a faster pace and it would have a positive effect even without Wroten having a great shooting % in the half court.
So relatively cheap pick ups who are young and still on very good deals for the Knicks.
Porzingis 20
Galloway 23
Grant 23
Wroten 22
O'Quinn 25
That's like 5 guys. Not sure what it'll cost to bring back DWill and Gallo, but odds are Phil won't pay too much to them. These are all like quality draft picks. Some of them lottery (porzingis) others 2nd round/late 1st round caliber (likely the rest). That's how you re-build and you don't overpay free agents, you wait until a superstar will sign. Hernangomez is a guy that looks good and may come over this summer. We've got the 2017 and 2018 draft picks. Within a few years the Knicks will look far better filled with younger players in their prime and Porzingis in his prime.
Really love how Phil is looking out for the best interests of this franchise, regardless of how bad some people hate his system of choice.
mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:EnySpree wrote:dk7th wrote:it's going to be rough for him if he can't defend the position. i have seen zero evidence he can.You can't say there is zero evidence when the dude is blocking shots and stealing the ball in these highlights. It's just a garbage statement when you can blatantly see him make amazing defensive plays. The potential is there and there is plenty of evidence
highlight reels are not a great basis for making an assessment of a player. our biggest issue is on the defensive side of the ball in the backcourt. there's a difference between getting steals and being a great defender.
he's a knick so we shall see.
wasn't james harden leading the league in steals at some point? Good stat!
yes, and lets not forget that iverson was lauded for his steals....
nixluva wrote:Malcolm wrote:nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)
1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.
What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.
how is he on defense in terms of fighting over picks, staying down, forcing ballhandlers to their weak hands, narrowing passing lanes, rotating, closing out?
you enjoy analyzing video. how much video and live stuff have you witnessed to make a fair assessment? i could not care less about his offensive skills at this point.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:Malcolm wrote:nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)
1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.
What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.
how is he on defense in terms of fighting over picks, staying down, forcing ballhandlers to their weak hands, narrowing passing lanes, rotating, closing out?
you enjoy analyzing video. how much video and live stuff have you witnessed to make a fair assessment? i could not care less about his offensive skills at this point.
Are you suggesting that i've never watched the guy play? Look EVERY young player can get better with the technical aspects of defensive basketball. He's got a lot of raw physical tools that should help him on the defensive end. The coaching staff will be working with him and all of our young players to help them improve defensively.
He does play the passing lanes and hustles back into a play if he's beaten. I'm not here to tell you he's a perfect players, as i've REPEATEDLY stated above. What is it with you guys taking such a hard line tack with this kid? As if we have all these other options just waiting. In our situation you take kids with the raw talent and you mold and coach them up.
Pre Draft Scouting reports:
Defensively, Wroten showed good awareness in team defense and outstanding anticipation making plays in the passing lanes, making use of his great length frequently to break up plays and pick off passes. He isn't always the most disciplined in his stance in isolation and his body language can get questionable when things don't go his way, but when he's keyed in he is great on this end, and appears to have all the physical tools to defend shooting guards at any level.
On the defensive end, Wroten has actually had a more consistently positive season, being an effective defender overall having fewer problems than on the offensive side of the ball. With his superior size, strength, length, and instincts, Wroten has spectacular potential on this end of the floor, and is a very effective man-to-man defender at the two-guard spot when he locks in. He's very prone to gambling, be it swiping at the ball in isolation situations or lunging into the passing lanes, but he has excellent anticipation and hands, which leads to a lot of disruptive plays for him, as well as plenty of steals and rebounds. He is prone to letting out of his stance and his urgency level can drop when things aren't going well for him, but overall he has good tools to guard the two-guard or combo-guard spot well in the pros, and could be an excellent defender if he truly commits himself.
nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:Malcolm wrote:nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)
1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.
What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.
how is he on defense in terms of fighting over picks, staying down, forcing ballhandlers to their weak hands, narrowing passing lanes, rotating, closing out?
you enjoy analyzing video. how much video and live stuff have you witnessed to make a fair assessment? i could not care less about his offensive skills at this point.
Are you suggesting that i've never watched the guy play? Look EVERY young player can get better with the technical aspects of defensive basketball. He's got a lot of raw physical tools that should help him on the defensive end. The coaching staff will be working with him and all of our young players to help them improve defensively.He does play the passing lanes and hustles back into a play if he's beaten. I'm not here to tell you he's a perfect players, as i've REPEATEDLY stated above. What is it with you guys taking such a hard line tack with this kid? As if we have all these other options just waiting. In our situation you take kids with the raw talent and you mold and coach them up.
Pre Draft Scouting reports:
Defensively, Wroten showed good awareness in team defense and outstanding anticipation making plays in the passing lanes, making use of his great length frequently to break up plays and pick off passes. He isn't always the most disciplined in his stance in isolation and his body language can get questionable when things don't go his way, but when he's keyed in he is great on this end, and appears to have all the physical tools to defend shooting guards at any level.On the defensive end, Wroten has actually had a more consistently positive season, being an effective defender overall having fewer problems than on the offensive side of the ball. With his superior size, strength, length, and instincts, Wroten has spectacular potential on this end of the floor, and is a very effective man-to-man defender at the two-guard spot when he locks in. He's very prone to gambling, be it swiping at the ball in isolation situations or lunging into the passing lanes, but he has excellent anticipation and hands, which leads to a lot of disruptive plays for him, as well as plenty of steals and rebounds. He is prone to letting out of his stance and his urgency level can drop when things aren't going well for him, but overall he has good tools to guard the two-guard or combo-guard spot well in the pros, and could be an excellent defender if he truly commits himself.
my thing with basketball is that it's always about defense first. "focus on digging in and shutting down the opponent and our offense will feed off the defense."
nowadays it seems to be the opposite and that way is where teams lose their way. so if you say he has the physical tools that's one thing, but how do you "coach" a player who has known only the "defense feeds off of offense" mindset?
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:Malcolm wrote:nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)
1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.
What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.
how is he on defense in terms of fighting over picks, staying down, forcing ballhandlers to their weak hands, narrowing passing lanes, rotating, closing out?
you enjoy analyzing video. how much video and live stuff have you witnessed to make a fair assessment? i could not care less about his offensive skills at this point.
Are you suggesting that i've never watched the guy play? Look EVERY young player can get better with the technical aspects of defensive basketball. He's got a lot of raw physical tools that should help him on the defensive end. The coaching staff will be working with him and all of our young players to help them improve defensively.He does play the passing lanes and hustles back into a play if he's beaten. I'm not here to tell you he's a perfect players, as i've REPEATEDLY stated above. What is it with you guys taking such a hard line tack with this kid? As if we have all these other options just waiting. In our situation you take kids with the raw talent and you mold and coach them up.
Pre Draft Scouting reports:
Defensively, Wroten showed good awareness in team defense and outstanding anticipation making plays in the passing lanes, making use of his great length frequently to break up plays and pick off passes. He isn't always the most disciplined in his stance in isolation and his body language can get questionable when things don't go his way, but when he's keyed in he is great on this end, and appears to have all the physical tools to defend shooting guards at any level.On the defensive end, Wroten has actually had a more consistently positive season, being an effective defender overall having fewer problems than on the offensive side of the ball. With his superior size, strength, length, and instincts, Wroten has spectacular potential on this end of the floor, and is a very effective man-to-man defender at the two-guard spot when he locks in. He's very prone to gambling, be it swiping at the ball in isolation situations or lunging into the passing lanes, but he has excellent anticipation and hands, which leads to a lot of disruptive plays for him, as well as plenty of steals and rebounds. He is prone to letting out of his stance and his urgency level can drop when things aren't going well for him, but overall he has good tools to guard the two-guard or combo-guard spot well in the pros, and could be an excellent defender if he truly commits himself.my thing with basketball is that it's always about defense first. "focus on digging in and shutting down the opponent and our offense will feed off the defense."
nowadays it seems to be the opposite and that way is where teams lose their way. so if you say he has the physical tools that's one thing, but how do you "coach" a player who has known only the "defense feeds off of offense" mindset?
The kid has a high motor and now he's very motivated to prove that he belongs. I think he'll be very coachable. They like him for his defensive potential in addition to his ability to push the ball and break teams down.
nixluva wrote:Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:nyk4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Moonangie wrote:nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6these are horrid numbers...
Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg
jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.
Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.
Perhaps you've answered your own question. We NEED more speed, breakdown ability and athletic ability at guard. Wroten is a guard that is nearly impossible to stay in front of. With all the other things going on on the floor no team will be able to stop him. You can't guard Melo, RoLo, KP and also focus on Wroten constantly attacking.Right now there's no fear of our guards going full court or getting to the rim and finishing off of Dribble Hand Off's or just simply breaking his man down. He doesn't need a PnR in order to get to the rim!!!
wow, talk about exaggeration. no team will be able to stop him? if he's THAT good, why did A) the sixers cut him and B) no one else pick him up?
if he was that good, some team would have overpaid for him already.
Do the Sixers have Melo, KP and RoLo? Do they run the Triangle? Did they run Pinch Post with Wroten?
It's not an exaggeration. If he's on the floor with our best players as I wrote, there's no way that a team will be able to focus on stopping him! It's exactly what happened with Schved. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way it actually works out in this offense.
In the Pinch Post you have a 2 man game on one side and an overload on the other. If you put a very quick, breakdown guard on the 2 Man Side of the floor in the Pinch Post, there's no way to give help against him without leaving gaping holes in your D. If they do come to help it will leave someone open. That's how it's worked for decades and it still works.
i was really rooting for Wroten to join this squad until you opened your mouth and said "unstoppable". since you talk out of your asz all the time, now i am second guessing myself. lol
honestly...we have to gauge how quick his first step really is. and how well he can pass the ball. we do not need another jerian grant.
I talk out my AZZ? You really need to check yourself cuz I back up most of what I say. Don't confuse season predictions as the end all be all of basketball knowledge. Even the Pro Analysts get that wrong. When it comes to X's and O's or player evaluations I'm not often wrong and I present as much detail in my posts to at least make my case clear.
If you can't tell how quick Wroten is or how sick his handle is then I can't help you. Just looking at the frequency of his drives to the basket will tell you that he's at another level from any guard we have. The only issue is his level of conditioning after recovering from his ACL. When I said Wroten could be unstoppable if he's on the floor with our starters that's just LOGIC. He was not being stopped even when he was the only thing to worry about on the Sixer!!! This is without a JUMPER or other significant scoring threats. So yeah if you put him on the floor with other threats like Melo, KP, RoLo then I do believe he'd be very effective working off the attention those players would draw.
well yeah you do talk out your behind...all the time.
anyway... i like wroten myself and i feel he can do well on this team considering his quickness. but the fact that he has had injuries comes with a measure of reservation. But not to you...you go on to say he's a guard thats impossible to stay in front of...maybe pre-acl? he's still not fixed physically, is he?
mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:nyk4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:martin wrote:nixluva wrote:callmened wrote:My only concern is the stability of the right knee acl which has been operated twice. That's def something to monitor for a guy who relies on his physical gifts so muchIt's a worthy risk given the low cost and no guarantee long term. It's the prototypical low risk but high reward scenario! Aside from the injury issue, I like his talent and fit. Hopefully he works out cuz we can really use his speed and driving ability.
I get that we can be excited about new, young blood, but are his talents and fit really there? I kinda question that
Seems to me that Phil wouldn't waste his time if there wasn't at least some degree of fit for this system. Phil could've gone with a plethora of available young PG's out there from the D League. Wroten has the prototypical size and combo guard ability that you look for even with his rather poor shooting. Shooting is a skill he can improve on with hard work, but being 6-6, long, quick, athletic with great handle and a high motor are not things you can just make up for if you don't have it. It's actually a good thing he's not overly reliant on jump shooting.Think about an even more athletic version of Shved. Shved struggled in the NBA shooting as well, but on the Knicks he found a comfort zone and looked MUCH better than he did in other situations. Part of that is the shots come in the same spots and a player can gain proficiency with practice. Not saying Wroten is a lock but he does have very similar physical talent and mental approach, such as being a naturally skilled and aggressive push the pace guard that will get out and run and penetrate.
Remember how much different things looked with Shved looking to push the ball and attack the rim on a consistent basis. Shved was also considered a somewhat out of control player and a tweener. Not really a PG or a SG, but capable of both. This system really fits a player like that. It's basically the Kobe/Jordan/Pippen/Odom types. Versatile Guard/Forwards with PG like skills.
he just did with fredette.
JIMMER? Come on man. I see nothing wrong with Phil bringing him up but at least Wroten stands some chance of being able to physically guard guys at the NBA level. When Wroten got a shot to start he did a decent job for a 21 year old kid who hadn't fully developed his jumper and leading a really horrid team. I see no comparison between the potential of the 2 players. Wroten still has plenty of upside. If he can improve his shooting even a little bit he'd already be a far better player overall than Jimmer.My points still stand. NO GUARANTEES but Wroten fits what i've been describing as the prototype guard in this system. If he can catch on I think he fits with our other athletic young players. Some have nearly given up on Jerian, but he also fits the job description from a basic talent standpoint and just needs to get his head right. DWILL is another guy that I want to see spend more time in this system, learning and growing. People are often too quick to give up on some players or write them off before they even get a chance. People laughed at me when I was supporting Shved but then they understood once they saw him in a role that fit his talent.
These are flawed players or we wouldn't be able to get them for so cheap. Doesn't mean they will fail here and it doesn't mean they'll be stars either. We've gotta keep trying to find the right talent for the way they want this team to play. Gotta develop these guys cuz we know they're not perfect players yet.
so what do you think are his actual chances of success? 1-100 please.
That kind of thing is your game! It's literally MEANINGLESS! How can anyone know for sure what's in the heart of a player? All i'm speaking of is his actual physical talent and skills for a young Guard who is just getting started in this league despite the fact he was drafted at 19. He turns 23 in April and is younger than both of our young guards who are still developing players. So Wroten is no different in that he's still developing.Nothing i've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system. People bringing up his stint with Philly and that they let him go seems a bit dubious to me given Philly's decision making the last few years. Those guys are all over the place when it comes to player decisions.
Wroten has a HIGH motor! He's constantly attacking a defense and pushing the ball. We need those kinds of traits. The idea is to coach him up and teach him how to best use that talent. If any of our guards were putting up anywhere near 17/5/1.6 stls in 30 mpg we'd be in much better shape right now. He's got to get more efficient and improve all around but with a young guard that's not unusual. I'm glad we are taking a shot on him and looking to develop him. It's well worth the risk.
Nobody knows anything "for sure". I asked what you think are his actual chances (%) for success.
crickets
99%?
99.5%?
100%?
Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:nyk4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Moonangie wrote:nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6these are horrid numbers...
Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg
jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.
Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.
Perhaps you've answered your own question. We NEED more speed, breakdown ability and athletic ability at guard. Wroten is a guard that is nearly impossible to stay in front of. With all the other things going on on the floor no team will be able to stop him. You can't guard Melo, RoLo, KP and also focus on Wroten constantly attacking.Right now there's no fear of our guards going full court or getting to the rim and finishing off of Dribble Hand Off's or just simply breaking his man down. He doesn't need a PnR in order to get to the rim!!!
wow, talk about exaggeration. no team will be able to stop him? if he's THAT good, why did A) the sixers cut him and B) no one else pick him up?
if he was that good, some team would have overpaid for him already.
Do the Sixers have Melo, KP and RoLo? Do they run the Triangle? Did they run Pinch Post with Wroten?
It's not an exaggeration. If he's on the floor with our best players as I wrote, there's no way that a team will be able to focus on stopping him! It's exactly what happened with Schved. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way it actually works out in this offense.
In the Pinch Post you have a 2 man game on one side and an overload on the other. If you put a very quick, breakdown guard on the 2 Man Side of the floor in the Pinch Post, there's no way to give help against him without leaving gaping holes in your D. If they do come to help it will leave someone open. That's how it's worked for decades and it still works.
i was really rooting for Wroten to join this squad until you opened your mouth and said "unstoppable". since you talk out of your asz all the time, now i am second guessing myself. lol
honestly...we have to gauge how quick his first step really is. and how well he can pass the ball. we do not need another jerian grant.
I talk out my AZZ? You really need to check yourself cuz I back up most of what I say. Don't confuse season predictions as the end all be all of basketball knowledge. Even the Pro Analysts get that wrong. When it comes to X's and O's or player evaluations I'm not often wrong and I present as much detail in my posts to at least make my case clear.
If you can't tell how quick Wroten is or how sick his handle is then I can't help you. Just looking at the frequency of his drives to the basket will tell you that he's at another level from any guard we have. The only issue is his level of conditioning after recovering from his ACL. When I said Wroten could be unstoppable if he's on the floor with our starters that's just LOGIC. He was not being stopped even when he was the only thing to worry about on the Sixer!!! This is without a JUMPER or other significant scoring threats. So yeah if you put him on the floor with other threats like Melo, KP, RoLo then I do believe he'd be very effective working off the attention those players would draw.
well yeah you do talk out your behind...all the time.
anyway... i like wroten myself and i feel he can do well on this team considering his quickness. but the fact that he has had injuries comes with a measure of reservation. But not to you...you go on to say he's a guard thats impossible to stay in front of...maybe pre-acl? he's still not fixed physically, is he?
I've made many solid points over the years! At least I try to be a positive and constructive presence on this forum. It's easy to just throw an accusation out against someone without any kind of proof or validation.
You're the one talking out your Azz! Unless you know Wroten's current physical condition and can predict his future condition! Of course health is always the one mitigating factor. My comments are clearly talking about the kind of player Wroten is when healthy and in shape.
I've said multiple times that he needs to be healthy and fully rehabbed from his surgery. I've also stated in this thread that there are no guarantees with any prospect. This all just more BS from the usual suspects on this forum. I also stated that the Knicks are looking to develop the kid so this isn't just about where he's at right now. It's also about what he might be with further development.
He's a prospect and isn't costing the team much to take a look. If he can't play at a high enough level anymore it's no risk at all.
Howard Beck made a video talking about Jennings and now everyone wants him. It's so smart to get a dude fresh off acl surgery. Oh and Melo loves Rondo. We should throw money at him too. Why not he tire his acl too. Just as long as it's not Wroten.
EnySpree wrote:All this talk about ACL....Howard Beck made a video talking about Jennings and now everyone wants him. It's so smart to get a dude fresh off acl surgery. Oh and Melo loves Rondo. We should throw money at him too. Why not he tire his acl too. Just as long as it's not Wroten.
One thing of note is that Wroten had his ACL surgery on Feb. 3, 2015 and at this point he's had a full year of recovery time. That's actually a good thing as far as we're concerned. He's had a very long time to get the rehab he needs and should be much more ready at this stage. It was reported that the Knicks have kept up with his Rehab Program so I would assume they felt good enough about his progress to try and bring him in.
This was back in August:
http://friendlybounce.com/2015/08/08/ton...
Tony Wroten, who is somehow still only 22 years old, played pretty well for the Philadelphia 76ers early on last season. He was putting up 17 points and five assists a night until he got hurt in the middle of January, playing his last game of the season against the Atlanta Hawks.Eventually, Wroten had to undergo surgery due to a partially torn ACL in his right knee.
6 months. Six. Months. Good lord, that’s incredible.Honestly it would be impressive work by Wroten and the Sixers to have him ready to go on opening night. But judging by this video, that should be light work at this point.
Big ups to Wroten for getting after it in his rehab. Hopefully we can see some of that athleticism during the season this year. There’s no doubt the Sixers are going to need all the help they can get.
