Knicks · Last nights victory showed what quality guard (page 1)

Play can of for a team. And you see the diversity grant driving Sasha shooting etc open up avenues of play we have NOT seen one time all year. Yes it won't continue at that pace we won't go 16-22 from 3 but it was a free flow offense that had more explosion to it

nice lead in from the title ... you tricky guy

wtf?

Last nights victory only shows one, maybe two things:

1. Phoenix sucks
2. we can only beat sucky teams

can do in the Triangle if you hit all 30 of your 3 point attempts. Everyone looks like a genius against JV competition!

It shows we need pure shooters. And not Calderon who gives it back on the other end. Load up the roster with guys who hit the 3 at a high clip and can offer reasonable defense. It's a shooter's game today.

But they run pick and roll and Len was a top 6 lotto pick.

So Briggs are you saying we shouldn't try to blow it all up and trade Melo for draft picks and instead we should focus on adding quality guards with the $25-40M in cap room we'll have this summer?

Obviously we beat up on a bad team but Briggs' point is still valid. I think he's talking more about sustainable guard play--a backcourt that's capable of playing like that on a frequent basis and against all teams, not just poor teams like PHX & and not once every 30 games. I don't care what Sasha did last night--he's been terrible this year. There's nothing Sasha can do the rest of the way that will convince me he's worth bringing back for next year--I don't even care if he said he'd play for free. If he wants to come back and is willing to be part of the coaching staff somehow, fine, just can't be part of the 15-man roster. Obviously Grant's worth keeping unless a good trade presents itself (I know he had some good takes to the basket last night but still looked real shaky and loose with the ball at times--can't believe he never saw development time in the DL this yr) and unlike most, I actually like Afflalo and wouldn't be too upset if he returned next year--otherwise--we need to turn the page on this whole guard situation imo (if Calderon can't be traded or stretched, there's no way he sees regular mins next yr--needs to be relegated to DNP status/mentor. Even Galloway should be replaced (I basically like Galloway--just feel he's outgunned against other pro guards talent-wise. There are much better fish in the sea--I personally would rather have Ray McCallum over Galloway for what that's worth--just a better talent with much better skills).

Finestrg wrote:Obviously we beat up on a bad team but Briggs' point is still valid. I think he's talking more about sustainable guard play--a backcourt that's capable of playing like that on a frequent basis and against all teams, not just poor teams like PHX & and not once every 30 games. I don't care what Sasha did last night--he's been terrible this year. There's nothing Sasha can do the rest of the way that will convince me he's worth bringing back for next year--I don't even care if he said he'd play for free. If he wants to come back and is willing to be part of the coaching staff somehow, fine, just can't be part of the 15-man roster. Obviously Grant's worth keeping unless a good trade presents itself (I know he had some good takes to the basket last night but still looked real shaky and loose with the ball at times--can't believe he never saw development time in the DL this yr) and unlike most, I actually like Afflalo and wouldn't be too upset if he returned next year--otherwise--we need to turn the page on this whole guard situation imo (if Calderon can't be traded or stretched, there's no way he sees regular mins next yr--needs to be relegated to DNP status/mentor. Even Galloway should be replaced (I basically like Galloway--just feel he's outgunned against other pro guards talent-wise. There are much better fish in the sea--I personally would rather have Ray McCallum over Galloway for what that's worth--just a better talent with much better skills).

I'M CO-SIGNING THIS

I like Galloway, but he looks nothing like he did last season. He looks just like he's taking the landry fields route, awesome yr 1, terrible yr 2, and garbage yr 3. but im willing to give him one more yr with a real coach who's not focus on the triangle.

Finestrg wrote:Obviously we beat up on a bad team but Briggs' point is still valid. I think he's talking more about sustainable guard play--a backcourt that's capable of playing like that on a frequent basis and against all teams, not just poor teams like PHX & and not once every 30 games. I don't care what Sasha did last night--he's been terrible this year. There's nothing Sasha can do the rest of the way that will convince me he's worth bringing back for next year--I don't even care if he said he'd play for free. If he wants to come back and is willing to be part of the coaching staff somehow, fine, just can't be part of the 15-man roster. Obviously Grant's worth keeping unless a good trade presents itself (I know he had some good takes to the basket last night but still looked real shaky and loose with the ball at times--can't believe he never saw development time in the DL this yr) and unlike most, I actually like Afflalo and wouldn't be too upset if he returned next year--otherwise--we need to turn the page on this whole guard situation imo (if Calderon can't be traded or stretched, there's no way he sees regular mins next yr--needs to be relegated to DNP status/mentor. Even Galloway should be replaced (I basically like Galloway--just feel he's outgunned against other pro guards talent-wise. There are much better fish in the sea--I personally would rather have Ray McCallum over Galloway for what that's worth--just a better talent with much better skills).

Yes, but we've all been saying this all season. Hence the constant threads on Jennings, Conley, Teague, Batum, Bazemore, even Wroten, McCallum, Frazier.

A lot of us have been saying this all season. Briggs has been saying ditch Melo for draft picks all season.

I guess it took Sasha to show him the light and the way.

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Obviously we beat up on a bad team but Briggs' point is still valid. I think he's talking more about sustainable guard play--a backcourt that's capable of playing like that on a frequent basis and against all teams, not just poor teams like PHX & and not once every 30 games. I don't care what Sasha did last night--he's been terrible this year. There's nothing Sasha can do the rest of the way that will convince me he's worth bringing back for next year--I don't even care if he said he'd play for free. If he wants to come back and is willing to be part of the coaching staff somehow, fine, just can't be part of the 15-man roster. Obviously Grant's worth keeping unless a good trade presents itself (I know he had some good takes to the basket last night but still looked real shaky and loose with the ball at times--can't believe he never saw development time in the DL this yr) and unlike most, I actually like Afflalo and wouldn't be too upset if he returned next year--otherwise--we need to turn the page on this whole guard situation imo (if Calderon can't be traded or stretched, there's no way he sees regular mins next yr--needs to be relegated to DNP status/mentor. Even Galloway should be replaced (I basically like Galloway--just feel he's outgunned against other pro guards talent-wise. There are much better fish in the sea--I personally would rather have Ray McCallum over Galloway for what that's worth--just a better talent with much better skills).

Yes, but we've all been saying this all season. Hence the constant threads on Jennings, Conley, Teague, Batum, Bazemore, even Wroten, McCallum, Frazier.

A lot of us have been saying this all season. Briggs has been saying ditch Melo for draft picks all season.

I guess it took Sasha to show him the light and the way.

It's always been about the guards. I thought this was a well established fact. You put 2 quality guards in this backcourt and it's a completely different team. When we were getting better guard play earlier the team was playing well. The Team was competitive.

With regard to Gallo and Jerian, I will say that their Development will continue and there is still room for both to grow a lot more from where they are now. That's what the summer's are for. I felt LT came back this year a much improved player at the later age of 27. RoLo has been improving at the age of 27. So there's literally nothing to stop Gallo and Jerian from continuing to improve as players in the future. I'm also very hopeful that Wroten, if he's finally signed, can make a lot of improvement as well.

I also like the names mentioned by crzymdups above as possible targets for this roster.

I agree with briggs. Its a glimpse of what a quality 2 can give us. No, not 31 pt victories every nite but the road to contention begins with quality at every position.

Why throw out the triangle if you don't have the pieces to open up ANY offense? At 22-22 we were getting quality from Affalo.

Thibs or anyone else needs talent upgrade in the back court. Problem is do we be patient and do it right or starphuch it?
If Shved was the answer, we needed a new question.

Finestrg wrote:Obviously we beat up on a bad team but Briggs' point is still valid. I think he's talking more about sustainable guard play--a backcourt that's capable of playing like that on a frequent basis and against all teams, not just poor teams like PHX & and not once every 30 games. I don't care what Sasha did last night--he's been terrible this year. There's nothing Sasha can do the rest of the way that will convince me he's worth bringing back for next year--I don't even care if he said he'd play for free. If he wants to come back and is willing to be part of the coaching staff somehow, fine, just can't be part of the 15-man roster. Obviously Grant's worth keeping unless a good trade presents itself (I know he had some good takes to the basket last night but still looked real shaky and loose with the ball at times--can't believe he never saw development time in the DL this yr) and unlike most, I actually like Afflalo and wouldn't be too upset if he returned next year--otherwise--we need to turn the page on this whole guard situation imo (if Calderon can't be traded or stretched, there's no way he sees regular mins next yr--needs to be relegated to DNP status/mentor. Even Galloway should be replaced (I basically like Galloway--just feel he's outgunned against other pro guards talent-wise. There are much better fish in the sea--I personally would rather have Ray McCallum over Galloway for what that's worth--just a better talent with much better skills).

The key term here is "sustainable guard play". Afflalo, he with the opt out clause, can go. Too many disappearances when we need him the most. The same for Calderone, who rarely shows up. Galloway, who is in the sophomore slumps need to show marked improvement over the summer. Same with Grant. Hopefully, Wroten overcomes his injuries and regains his past levels of play. This leaves us with three maybes (Grant, Gallo and Wroten) and two to be replaced. Concerning Sasha; he is annoying enough and energetic enough to be brought back next year. With consistent minutes, he still presents himself as having value, in the games and on the bench.

Nalod wrote:I agree with briggs. Its a glimpse of what a quality 2 can give us. No, not 31 pt victories every nite but the road to contention begins with quality at every position.

Why throw out the triangle if you don't have the pieces to open up ANY offense? At 22-22 we were getting quality from Affalo.

Thibs or anyone else needs talent upgrade in the back court. Problem is do we be patient and do it right or starphuch it?
If Shved was the answer, we needed a new question.

Thats the main question.....The problem is we paid Melo like we were planning to win a championship during his contract years. Maybe free agents will take notice and think they are the missing link(s).

franco12 wrote:wtf?

Last nights victory only shows one, maybe two things:

1. Phoenix sucks
2. we can only beat sucky teams

Exactly. I refuse to get excited about anything we saw in that game last night playing against a team that's actually worse than we are.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:I agree with briggs. Its a glimpse of what a quality 2 can give us. No, not 31 pt victories every nite but the road to contention begins with quality at every position.

Why throw out the triangle if you don't have the pieces to open up ANY offense? At 22-22 we were getting quality from Affalo.

Thibs or anyone else needs talent upgrade in the back court. Problem is do we be patient and do it right or starphuch it?
If Shved was the answer, we needed a new question.

Thats the main question.....The problem is we paid Melo like we were planning to win a championship during his contract years. Maybe free agents will take notice and think they are the missing link(s).

I would think that is possible. Lets be real, players, GM's and coach's are far more knowledgeable than us. We have the benefit of the hindsight hissy fit that makes us all knowing and powerful.

We assume Tyson/Felton SHOULD have yielded more. Felton is a good back up, Tyson wanted out, and we got an opportunity at Early who was promising. Don't take "opportunity" so lightly cuz without it you don't get lucky. Early at his size and quickness might have been a quality starter in this league. We took a shot and missed. I'd rather do that than not.

We need a Rodney Hood type player. Low 1st rounder who exceeds. That could have been Early. I wasn't, we move on.

Its also about defense. When you're running the Triangle, the guards often end up on the wings. If your guards are slow, they are more susceptible to transition buckets. Teams that want to run on us can. If we had more athletic guards, better defenders, this wouldnt be an issue. If Calderon is starting next season that problem will remain.

There is this frame, that its either the system or the players, but sometimes when things arent working it can be a combination of both. What proportion of this is on an unfamiliar system to many, and how much is on our aging back court, the skill of our coach(es), are debatable. To leave one factor completely off the table seems short sighted IMO. I heard the same thing ad nauseum about SSOL, the same insinuations about fandom. Not hearing it this time.

BRIGGS wrote:Play can of for a team. And you see the diversity grant driving Sasha shooting etc open up avenues of play we have NOT seen one time all year. Yes it won't continue at that pace we won't go 16-22 from 3 but it was a free flow offense that had more explosion to it

Ohhhhhh so we need new guards is what it is. Now this is some breaking news. Of course we need new guards which we've been saying all season. I would love to get 3 new legit guards. A PG, SG and a combo guard. If we did that and just kept pretty much the rest of the team besides of course Calderon, Amundson, Sasha and Seraphin we'd be good to go. I'm still a little on the edge on KOQ but i gotta give it to the guy cause he's been playing much better for Rambis and some credit goes to Rambis as well for believing in him enough to give him the floor time needed to get him some confidence in himself.

crzymdups wrote:So Briggs are you saying we shouldn't try to blow it all up and trade Melo for draft picks and instead we should focus on adding quality guards with the $25-40M in cap room we'll have this summer?

oooh! meee! pick me!!! I see what you did there

We simply do not know how to play as a team and still can not execute the Triangle
Sasha knows how to execute it and plays TEAM BASKETBALL, that is what Phil Jackson has been preaching and wanted Fisher to do more off
He also looks to get high quality % shots, plays tough DEFENSE

AA is an undersized SF and is another liability on our DEFENSE
CA is best used as a PF, while the trio of CA, KP, Lopez is simply too slow and has poor spacing issues

it just illustrates that part a HUGE part of our problems are TEAM WORK, BB IQ, EXECUTING TEAM BASKETBALL, ANTICIPATION on both OFF and DEF
Sasha knows how to move the ball, when to cut, how to direct other players to move, and moving the basketball ball at the same time, trying to get quality high % shots
While many has bashed him this season, I see a player that knows how to play TEAM BASKETBALL

We need to be able to utilize ALL 5 players on the floor to be scoring threats
Obviously some players are more talented than others as threats, while some players need screens and picks to free them up, some need to set their legs to shoot more etc...
We simply need EVERYONE to be able to set a good screen, use a good screen effectively, constant movement with ball movement *WITH PURPOSE*, finding the angle in the triangle to get a high % shot
I simply believe we should get some GS talents and show the team how to work as a team, especially with ball movement/player movement, cuts, passing, catch and shoot, etc....
teams such as OKC just do not get it as well, while the Triangle isn't the only system that provides team work effectively with floor spacing etc
Denver has been playing well despite their injuries but they play a hard on DEFENSE, and try to get quality shots with team work

If we need to OVERPAY for Luke Walton, DO IT
Give him an offer that he will not refuse, whether it is multiyear deal at 7-8m to 9-10m (with incentives)
Lets face it, EVERY TEAM, GM, and players want to be able to play like GS does on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE
It would only help our FA talent if we show we can be effective as a unit if we can execute it

players such as

David Lee
Mo Speights

Ian Clark
Kent Bazemore
Brandon Rush/Justin Holiday

Livingston/Iggy in a trade to clear salary without giving up assets so GS can sign Durant
Not sure if I would want to pay Harrison Barnes over 15m (which he turned down as an extension)

Harrison Barnes/Bogut

There are also HIGH IQ players that have played on teams such as Spurs, Atlanta, Bulls, Miami etc
As well as on bad teams

Jeremy Lin would be a solid backup PG that knows how to get others involved and played well in the Garden that knows how to get the crowd involved to bring back home court

Will Barton has been great this year, while Briggs and a few others wanted to acquire him last summer, some thought he was a scrub

Jovic was compared to a YOUNG Vucevic with a 3pt shot
I wanted him prior to the draft and he could have been available over Early

I have no problem getting salary cap relief this year by sending Lopez to a team that could send his draft picks and no cap space back
Along with not resigning AA and Derrick Williams, even trading Kyle O Quin

We need to figure out if CA is part of our future or not this summer

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:I agree with briggs. Its a glimpse of what a quality 2 can give us. No, not 31 pt victories every nite but the road to contention begins with quality at every position.

Why throw out the triangle if you don't have the pieces to open up ANY offense? At 22-22 we were getting quality from Affalo.

Thibs or anyone else needs talent upgrade in the back court. Problem is do we be patient and do it right or starphuch it?
If Shved was the answer, we needed a new question.

Thats the main question.....The problem is we paid Melo like we were planning to win a championship during his contract years. Maybe free agents will take notice and think they are the missing link(s).

I didn't take it that way. We paid Melo what we had to in order so that the Knicks kept him.