Knicks · Trust the Process? Hinkie "steps down" (page 2)
crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Where the Hinkie lovers at?Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/717865209449218048
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Interesting development.
I don't think there have ever been any Hinkie lovers here though.Oh?
Are you talking about Mreinman where he said he loved the experiment but was not sold on it? (You're just taking the word "love" from that sentence?) I didn't read through every message on that thread though. Obviously Hinkie's use of the metrics worked a lot worse than GSW's and SAS's. I'm sure it's a combination of bad strategy, execution, and luck on Hinkie's part. No one would say that all GMs who use the eyeball test are great at it and I'm sure the same applies to the metrics.
Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Where the Hinkie lovers at?Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/717865209449218048
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Interesting development.
I don't think there have ever been any Hinkie lovers here though.
really??? Rainman where are you???
Somehow he drags all these famous peoples names in the mud with his 13 page resignation letter:
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Can't wait to see where he lands next. Destroy franchise, deploy blueprint with 15 year "zig". Leave.
Really? The 10-68 Sixers aren't an attractive place for FA's? That's not what I've read on some threads in here. The Sixers are the wave of the future!
jrodmc wrote:That's brilliant. Due to changes in the organization, HE can't make good decisions anymore.
Can't wait to see where he lands next. Destroy franchise, deploy blueprint with 15 year "zig". Leave.Really? The 10-68 Sixers aren't an attractive place for FA's? That's not what I've read on some threads in here. The Sixers are the wave of the future!
He did good stockpiling picks, that wasn't the problem. He just never cashed in those picks for players. He always did the opposite and traded away his young talent for more picks instead of trading his abundance of lottery picks for top free agents.
ChuckBuck wrote:jrodmc wrote:That's brilliant. Due to changes in the organization, HE can't make good decisions anymore.
Can't wait to see where he lands next. Destroy franchise, deploy blueprint with 15 year "zig". Leave.Really? The 10-68 Sixers aren't an attractive place for FA's? That's not what I've read on some threads in here. The Sixers are the wave of the future!
He did good stockpiling picks, that wasn't the problem. He just never cashed in those picks for players. He always did the opposite and traded away his young talent for more picks instead of trading his abundance of lottery picks for top free agents.
While amassing a never ending plethora of tanking seasons that would have gotten him life in front of the firing squad in NYC.
Luck has a lot to do with success in the NBA.
Defective picks like Norlens and Embiid are deep value and might prove to be good picks, but a team that is pathetic becomes a financial liability in the league and other owners got tired of it.
I blame the ownership, not just Hinkie. Bringing in Jerry COlangelo to fix ownership. I think ownership was fair to not fire him as they are culpable in the process. Perhaps they will pay the rest of his contract and let him leave with his dignity. That's fair.
CrushAlot wrote:CrushAlot wrote:OOps. Here it is.Knixkik wrote:If I had the motivation I would pull my thread from earlier this year. A horrible plan with no real end game. He sold ownership in a shame. When he dealt MCW I knew it was a horrible plan. Trading him in itself wasn't bad, it was the fact that he was trading his pick for a future pick, an endless delay. Anyone can collect assets but he was never going to build a team.I posted the link in this thread.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
Thanks!
Salary cap position
Our salary cap position going forward is easily the NBA's best. The most room, the most flexibility,
providing the widest available set of options in free agency or trade of any club. This stockpile can be used all at once or strategically over the ensuing years to acquire players that fit your team, improve in your development program, and help you move up the standings.During this phase of acquiring players and picks to really invest in our future and climb higher than we have in over 30 years, we spent a bit over $135M on payroll across the three seasons, while the NBA median spend was over $200M. That won’t last, as over time a climb up the standings will see spend rise precipitously as well.
These advantages over our competitors are material, but well short of deterministic. From here a whole host of solid decisions are necessary to play our hand out of this stacked deck.
Hinkie was like a guy who chose to live with his parents in order to save money so he could get the perfect house and find his perfect wife when the time was right. He chose to live in a way which limited his life and his personal associations with the belief that the future would be so much better... After 20 years he had still not moved out, though, and was always afraid to take that next step.
Hinkie makes it seem that he was about to turn everything around with this draft, but as it turns out, the 2016 seems to be far from a franchise changer.
Seems like his biggest "concrete" achievement was only spending $45M/yr on his players...saving the team at least $65M more than the median NBA team.
This is also humorous...
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I've read many things about him being disliked by agents, and from what we've been seeing, FAs are not coming to teams with records like the Sixers.
I think he did leave the team with some "assets" a smart GM can use to build a successful team, but there is no way Hinkie was going to take them to the promised land.
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philly.com
Behind the scenes of Sam Hinkie's exit
by Keith Pompey, STAFF WRITER Twitter icon @PompeyOnSixersNo one within the 76ers organization will deny that Sam Hinkie was about to lose his power within the organization. However, the 38-year-old's abrupt resignation as general manager and president of basketball operations shocked the Sixers, according to a league source.
"The way it went down was strange," the source said. "But actually him not wanting to have a partner or a boss, that part like the very end, how this was going to end up, that has been at least a month in regards to hard core conversations.
"But the way it went down just [was] an indication of his maturity."
Hinkie was with the team and members of the organization for three hours Wednesday. It was a part of the team photo. Then he met with managing owners Josh Harris and David Blitzer for an hour and a half.
Sources said that Hinkie appeared to be in good spirits and even joked with someone before taking the team picture. But that evening, he sent a 13-page resignation letter to the Sixers' equity partners.
"I think he did some great stuff for sure to position a franchise in a time when it took a lot of strength to do so," a league source said.
But the Sixers were trying to get him some help, somebody to come in as a partner with Hinkie on a leadership end and to build a culture for players.
The organization wanted to be able to attract free agents and have better relationships with opposing general managers, agents and the media.
The Sixers felt that Hinkie did well, maybe even great, with the core jobs of analytics and dealing with the salary cap. However, they felt he was "not so great" with everything else that comes with being a president and general manager in the NBA.
So the Sixers met with Hinkie over the past three to four months about giving up some of his responsibilities and to work on his shortcomings. The conversations started to heat up in the last two weeks.
At first, they asked Hinkie to cooperate. Then they told him that this is how things were going to be done.
The source pointed out that Hinkie is still young and this is the first team that he has run.
But it's also a critical time for the Sixers. They have three first-round picks this summer, possibly four if they get the Los Angeles Lakers' conditional pick. In addition to that, the Sixers will have an abundance of salary cap space the next two seasons.
And Hinkie is known for excelling in those situations.
philly.com/sixersblog
Published: April 7, 2016 — 10:31 AM EDT | Updated: April 7, 2016 — 11:44 AM EDT
The Philadelphia Inquirer
WaltLongmire wrote:From the Hinkie letter...Salary cap position
Our salary cap position going forward is easily the NBA's best. The most room, the most flexibility,
providing the widest available set of options in free agency or trade of any club. This stockpile can be used all at once or strategically over the ensuing years to acquire players that fit your team, improve in your development program, and help you move up the standings.During this phase of acquiring players and picks to really invest in our future and climb higher than we have in over 30 years, we spent a bit over $135M on payroll across the three seasons, while the NBA median spend was over $200M. That won’t last, as over time a climb up the standings will see spend rise precipitously as well.
These advantages over our competitors are material, but well short of deterministic. From here a whole host of solid decisions are necessary to play our hand out of this stacked deck.
Hinkie was like a guy who chose to live with his parents in order to save money so he could get the perfect house and find his perfect wife when the time was right. He chose to live in a way which limited his life and his personal associations with the belief that the future would be so much better... After 20 years he had still not moved out, though, and was always afraid to take that next step.
Hinkie makes it seem that he was about to turn everything around with this draft, but as it turns out, the 2016 seems to be far from a franchise changer.Seems like his biggest "concrete" achievement was only spending $45M/yr on his players...saving the team at least $65M more than the median NBA team.
This is also humorous...Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/gonzoCSN/status/717889773948510209?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Click here to view the TweetI've read many things about him being disliked by agents, and from what we've been seeing, FAs are not coming to teams with records like the Sixers.
I think he did leave the team with some "assets" a smart GM can use to build a successful team, but there is no way Hinkie was going to take them to the promised land.
That is a great analogy for him. His cycle of trading for draft picks, young players he drafted for draft picks, etc just meant he was afraid to actually take that next step that he had promised as part of his process.
Nalod wrote:
Defective picks like Norlens and Embiid are deep value and might prove to be good picks, but a team that is pathetic becomes a financial liability in the league and other owners got tired of it.
2014 was a bad draft. After the 1st 2 picks it was crap. Only 2 players with some talent that would have been considered for the 3rd pick instead of Embiid. Aaron Gordon pick 4th and Lavine picked 13th. Jordan Clarkson picked 46th overall in the 2nd round might be 1 of the better players in the draft after a few more years.
2013 draft is the one that they kinda messed up. Nerlens Noel was picked 6th. They could have gotten CJ McCollum, Greek Freak or Schroder. I still kinda like Noel though. He just needs to eat more. Dude looks like he needs a sandwich everytime I see him.
Knixkik wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:From the Hinkie letter...Salary cap position
Our salary cap position going forward is easily the NBA's best. The most room, the most flexibility,
providing the widest available set of options in free agency or trade of any club. This stockpile can be used all at once or strategically over the ensuing years to acquire players that fit your team, improve in your development program, and help you move up the standings.During this phase of acquiring players and picks to really invest in our future and climb higher than we have in over 30 years, we spent a bit over $135M on payroll across the three seasons, while the NBA median spend was over $200M. That won’t last, as over time a climb up the standings will see spend rise precipitously as well.
These advantages over our competitors are material, but well short of deterministic. From here a whole host of solid decisions are necessary to play our hand out of this stacked deck.
Hinkie was like a guy who chose to live with his parents in order to save money so he could get the perfect house and find his perfect wife when the time was right. He chose to live in a way which limited his life and his personal associations with the belief that the future would be so much better... After 20 years he had still not moved out, though, and was always afraid to take that next step.
Hinkie makes it seem that he was about to turn everything around with this draft, but as it turns out, the 2016 seems to be far from a franchise changer.Seems like his biggest "concrete" achievement was only spending $45M/yr on his players...saving the team at least $65M more than the median NBA team.
This is also humorous...Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/gonzoCSN/status/717889773948510209?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Click here to view the TweetI've read many things about him being disliked by agents, and from what we've been seeing, FAs are not coming to teams with records like the Sixers.
I think he did leave the team with some "assets" a smart GM can use to build a successful team, but there is no way Hinkie was going to take them to the promised land.
That is a great analogy for him. His cycle of trading for draft picks, young players he drafted for draft picks, etc just meant he was afraid to actually take that next step that he had promised as part of his process.
Briggs would PAY the Sixers to let him be the GM in charge making their draft picks over the next few years, and I doubt that he'd be trading present picks for picks in the next decade (Hernangomez for Knicks' 2020/21 2nd rounders.)
If you go to the Sixers RealGM Hinkie discussion, though, most of them are acting like their children were just kidnapped from them.
- courageous smart dude who tried to help his team thru the draft. fine but he never drafted well
- in doing so he made a mockery of the NBA and a great bball city by tanking
- probably deserved to finish what he started BUT who was to say that this wouldnt go on forever
- i have no problem building thru the draft, my beef is him being cheap by not spending on players
- im not mad he is leaving but its concerning that hes being replaced by colangelo's son - i hate nepotism
Overall = he did his job by putting them in a great position to win. by taking an extreme approach he put his rep (and coach brown's rep) on the line and he paid for it. unfortunately, someone else will enjoy the fruits of his labor
PS = this should scare the HELL out of the knicks. not only have the sixers accumulated good young, cheap talent but they also have over $70 in cap space. they can outbid anyone we go after (i.e jennings, bazemore etc). Free agents always go where the money is. now the stigman of losing is GONE once hinkie left
Hinkie showed a staggering inability to make any adjustment beyond pushing a reset button.His record includes fielding teams that lost more games in each successive season. When this season's team started 0-18 after losing its final 10 games last season, it broke the record for the longest losing streak by a pro sports franchise in North America.
After having five lottery picks in three drafts, going through three free-agent periods and trade periods, the Sixers have one player - rookie Jahlil Okafor - who has shown the possibility of developing into a legitimate NBA impact player.
The two lottery picks from 2014, Joel Embiid and Dario Saric, have yet to play a single game for the Sixers.
Embiid, who was injured when Hinkie drafted him No. 3 overall, has missed his first two seasons with the same foot issues and might already have his career in jeopardy.
Saric, who was under contract in Europe when the Sixers drafted him, is still tied to his team in Turkey and might not come to Philadelphia next season, either.
As the ineptness grew, the Sixers became a national joke and attendance plummeted.
Things got so bad that NBA commissioner Adam Silver stepped in and either suggested, persuaded or cajoled Sixers majority owner Josh Harris to Hall of Fame personnel man Jerry Colangelo to come in and right the sinking ship before it hit the sea floor.
I'm not sure about Colangelo reportedly considering his son, Bryan, to replace Hinkie as general manager. But the possibility of Bryan Colangelo coming on board seems to be the reason Hinkie elected to bail out.
Hinkie's sudden resignation is as shocking as Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie firing head coach Chip Kelly with one game left in the season. Kelly was fired the day after talking about preparations for the final game.
Hinkie quit after telling beat writer Keith Pompey on Tuesday that he expected the franchise to be aggressive in going after players in the offseason. He hardly sounded like a guy who was thinking about Wednesday as being his last day on the job.
Hinkie is a guy who weighs his options before making the slightest decision. Quitting on a whim seems way out of character.
"Given all the changes to our organization, I no longer have the confidence that I can make good decisions on behalf of investors in the Sixers - you," Hinkie said in the letter to the investors. "So I should step down. And I have."
Something doesn't feel square about this.
Harris stuck with Hinkie and even made ridiculously embarrassing statements about 19- and 18-win seasons being "great."
Now Harris willingly accepts his resignation when the time to see whether Hinkie was truly capable of building a team was about to arrive this summer.
"While we are disappointed in Sam's decision, we would like to sincerely thank him for his contributions over the past three seasons," Harris said in a statement. "There is no question that Sam's work had put us in a very strong position to take advantage of numerous opportunities for an exciting future."
It is a future that will not include Hinkie, and I can't think of a nice way to say that seems like a good thing.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20160407_Nothing_personal__but_good_riddance__Hinkie.html#TP74moEEzVjftYxD.99
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixe...
sports.yahoo.com
How the 76ers unraveled Sam Hinkie, turned the franchise over to the Colangelos
By Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical 3 hours agoPhiladelphia 76ers general manager Sam Hinkie began to believe that this burgeoning front-office arrangement would never work for him, that chairman Jerry Colangelo had persuaded ownership to marginalize Hinkie’s influence and strip his authority.
Over weeks, Hinkie had considered the possibility of his future and finally decided to resign on Wednesday. He often explained himself to ownership in letters and reports, especially because that’s how it liked to be informed of his plans of action.
So, Hinkie emailed his resignation letter in the afternoon to Sixers ownership, including 12 majority and minority owners, and Jerry Colangelo. He expected ownership to respond to him and work toward a joint public announcement on Thursday, sources said. Within two hours of sending the email, the letter had been leaked – Jerry Colangelo was Hinkie’s strong suspicion, sources said – to a media outlet.Hinkie was mortified to see his words in the public arena, never expecting that a private correspondence to his superiors would become public and turn into something of a mocked manifesto. He wanted to tell his staff of his decision on late Wednesday or Thursday morning, once he talked with ownership about how his departure would be made public.
Hinkie never had the chance. The news was out, and Hinkie had lost control of his departure. His staff learned of his resignation in the news.
From the moment Colangelo arrived on the job in December, Hinkie was doomed – no matter how hard Hinkie tried to work with Colangelo, no matter how hard he tried to accept and implement his advice. Around Hinkie, people were surprised at how optimistic he had been about finding a way to coexist with Colangelo, about working together. Others were far more cynical about how this would end – and turned out to be right.
In the end, Colangelo wanted two things: to turn Hinkie into a glorified director of analytics; or run him out completely, sources said. In several parts of the Sixers’ ownership group that wasn’t well-received. Even today, Hinkie still holds strong support with several members of the Sixers’ ownership group. They believed his plan could have harvested results this summer, sources said, and that he should’ve been afforded more time on this grand experiment.
Ownership resisted on completely abandoning Hinkie, sources said. It kept finding ways to make this work long term with Colangelo and Hinkie. Colangelo signed a deal – three years in length, sources said – to oversee the franchise from afar in Phoenix. From the start, Colangelo felt that Hinkie didn’t have the necessary people skills to run an NBA organization, that he was too buried in numbers and pie graphs and PowerPoint presentations. Jerry Colangelo constantly lamented the absence of what he termed “real basketball people” in the organization. Colangelo has strong respect for Hinkie’s No. 2 man, Brandon Williams, who played in the NBA, and even signed off on Williams’ promotion to chief of staff.
For several weeks and months, Sixers ownership, Colangelo and Hinkie discussed different scenarios of front-office partnerships, sources said. Colangelo had convinced ownership that it needed a more basketball-savvy executive with better interpersonal skills to join Hinkie; or even simply to overtake him.
Within the past month, ownership had Hinkie meet with former Atlanta and Cleveland general manager Danny Ferry to discuss him joining Hinkie in the front office, sources said. Owners Josh Harris and David Blitzer indeed wanted Hinkie to share power with a new basketball executive, but people they canvassed for advice warned them that scenario would never work. Nevertheless, they had given Colangelo authority to make changes to basketball operations, and Colangelo was pushing for change.
Recently, Sixers ownership insisted that Colangelo had been, in the word they were using, “recused” from the hiring process of the new basketball executive. Colangelo let ownership and president Scott O’Neil conduct interviews and meetings – and stayed out of it, sources said.
Hinkie was dubious of the process, sources said, and believed that Jerry planned to find a way to turn the power over to his son, Bryan Colangelo. Make no mistake: Jerry wanted Bryan, but would’ve accepted Ferry had ownership recommended his hiring, sources said. The Sixers offered Ferry the general manager job in 2012 before he accepted Atlanta’s offer.
What’s unfair to Bryan Colangelo is this: He’s no charity case, but the cries of nepotism are unavoidable. He’s been NBA Executive of the Year twice, constructing playoff teams in Phoenix and Toronto. Every NBA executive has hits and misses, but Bryan Colangelo has had significant successes – there’s no denying it.
If Jerry Colangelo forever wanted to hire his son, Bryan was beyond reluctant to accept a job there, sources said. From the moment the Sixers hired Jerry, Bryan kept pursuing available NBA opportunities. He believed he had a great chance to get the Brooklyn Nets’ job, but was crestfallen when Sean Marks was chosen over him. Colangelo fought his way through the nepotism charges with the Suns, where he was ultimately responsible for signing Steve Nash, drafting Amar’e Stoudemire and assembling the cast of coach Mike D’Antoni’s Seven Seconds or Less contender. In Toronto, Bryan Colangelo’s body of work looked stronger with distance: drafting and re-signing DeMar DeRozan; trading for Kyle Lowry; and hiring Dwane Casey as coach.
If Bryan Colangelo had a brash disposition that could turn people off, people have seen him humbled. Even rival executives who don’t consider him a friend have great respect for Bryan’s ability to evaluate talent, make deals and a run an organization. He’s a worker, and the profession respects workers. Truth be told, Colangelo never wanted the 76ers job. Never. He wanted no part of his father’s shadow again or the cries that he needed his father to give him a GM job.Yet 76ers ownership, including O’Neil, convinced Bryan Colangelo that it believed he was the best candidate on the market. This will be a tough sell to the public, yes, because everyone knows that Jerry wanted to see Bryan hired. Ownership and O’Neil insist that Bryan Colangelo was the best candidate to turn the Sixers’ two potential lottery picks and salary-cap space into a playoff team sooner than later.
Bryan Colangelo would’ve preferred a Nets job that had far fewer assets, a less-clear path to winning. Only, the Nets didn’t hire him. The 76ers wanted him, and Bryan Colangelo is trying to finalize contract terms with O’Neil and ownership Thursday, sources said. It won’t be long until Colangelo is reshaping the front office, with Washington Wizards executive Marc Eversley expected to eventually join him in Philadelphia, sources said.
“The Process” is over in Philadelphia, a brash and bold new-age experiment overrun by the NBA’s first family of front offices. In the end, there’s just one judge: winning. This franchise has endured great pain, but there are possibilities awaiting it with high draft picks, young talent and the uncertainty of Joel Embiid’s foot. No one in modern NBA history has learned to use power like Jerry Colangelo, and he’s done it again. That’s just how it goes in the NBA, that’s just the system.
More NBA coverage from The Vertical:
crzymdups wrote:Where the Hinkie lovers at?Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/717865209449218048
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Just another genius that thought building a championship team is all about stock piling draft picks. Not as easy at most make it out to be. The draft Lotto has many challenges.