Knicks · Phil running secret Triangle mini-camp right now with some players and Rambis (page 1)

crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 8:28 PM
crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 8:29 PM
Phil Jackson has decided to coach the Knicks…at least for a couple of days.

The Knicks embattled team president is running a clandestine mini-camp this week in New York with a handful of current players, the Daily News has learned. According to a league source, the two practices are being described as a "triangle seminar" where Jackson and interim head coach Kurt Rambis will watch film and continue teaching the Knicks an offense that Jackson is intent on running despite many of the player's reluctance to embrace the antiquated system.

Not every player will attend the camp. It is unclear if Carmelo Anthony, who did not sound pleased following his exit meeting with Jackson last week, will participate. Newly signed Tony Wroten is expected to attend along with rookies Kristaps Porzingis and Jerian Grant as well as Langston Galloway and Jose Calderon.

That Jackson is running the camp is further proof that he is not budging from his belief that the best and only system for the Knicks to run is the triangle. Rambis' inclusion also bodes well for the coach who is Jackson's preferred choice to be named full-time coach.

And despite Jackson reaching out to Luke Walton and reportedly being interested in David Blatt, it is clear that whoever he hires as coach will run the offense that he is teaching the players this week.

Last summer, Jackson and Derek Fisher were at odds over the triangle with Fisher wanting to tweak the system and run more pick and rolls early in the offense. Jackson, however, insisted on running the team his way and eventually fired Fisher. Jackson even admitted that Fisher was not following the advice of two assistant coaches that Jackson had hired to help him run the triangle, Rambis and Jim Cleamons.

It was a stunning admission since it is rare for any coach, even a second year head coach, to be forced to follow the advice of his assistant coaches. Rambis was originally brought into to teach the offense but he and Fisher were at odds over how the team should be run.

Although the Knicks were 22-22 at one point last season under Fisher and despite Rambis having a lower winning percentage than Fisher, Jackson praised his long-time friend for being committed to the triangle.

Kurt Rambis is also attending the mini-camp, which bodes well for the interim coach.

"They had an immersion in the triangle," Jackson said last week. "When Kurt started coaching the team they started executing it with more structure. We saw some progress. But we have to make the next step. We have a limited amount of resource that we can deal with. If you're in an arms races and you go out and get a hydrogen bomb and it may not be enough and you got to go plutonium.

"It's great if you get in an arms race. We're not in an arms race. We're in a skills race. So that's what we're working toward: getting players skilled enough to perform in this game. Unfortunately we can't go out and the Lakers and some other team may have $60 million to chase with. That's not where we're at. We're about getting quality skill players."

Jackson became overly sensitive when reporters asked him to respond to critics of the triangle.

"There are critics? Who are these people? Why would people even say that?" he said. "Do they have 11 championships to show you when they talk about that?"

It was the first sign that Jackson was beginning to crack under the pressure of 49-115 record over two years. He also seemed to be on edge and a little off when he responded to reports on Monday that he had spoken with Walton about the Knicks head coaching job and that Walton, as the Daily News reported, was not interested in the position as of now.

Jackson denied that he had offered the job to anyone and that no one has turned him down. Two problems: no one reported that Jackson offered the job to Walton or that Walton gave him a flat out no. By noon Monday, ESPN confirmed the Daily News report by claiming that Jackson had told Knick employees that he expected Walton to remain with the Golden State Warriors.

One reason many coaches are turned off by the Knicks job, despite the prestige and financial windfall, is that they don't want a job where Jackson is coaching the team from the 10th row. And if Jackson demands that any coach inherits Rambis, that could be awkward since Fisher was forced to hire Rambis, who eventually replaced him.

But it's clear that Jackson is more comfortable coaching than scouting and talking to agents of players. That may be another reason he's running the camp: to satisfy his coaching pang. And his ego.

CrushAlot @ 4/18/2016 8:31 PM
It is in the other Phil thread. I think it is great that Phil is getting involved in coaching. I am concerned that Jose is there and that Jose was mentioned specifically by Phil as one of 'their' favorite players. It seems to be mainly the back court guys.
crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 8:33 PM
CrushAlot wrote:It is in the other Phil thread. I think it is great that Phil is getting involved in coaching. I am concerned that Jose is there and that Jose was mentioned specifically by Phil as one of 'their' favorite players. It seems to be mainly the back court guys.

Is this even legal at this point in the season? I've never heard of this ever - a non-playoffs team having a mini-camp AFTER the season ends???

I'm not opposed to the idea in general, but I despair that it means Rambis will be back.

mreinman @ 4/18/2016 8:33 PM
CrushAlot wrote:It is in the other Phil thread. I think it is great that Phil is getting involved in coaching. I am concerned that Jose is there and that Jose was mentioned specifically by Phil as one of 'their' favorite players. It seems to be mainly the back court guys.

I would rather have Denzel Valentine and Seth curry in that scrimage.

EnySpree @ 4/18/2016 8:33 PM
This is a piece of shit article....

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 8:35 PM
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

Have you ever heard of a team running a mini-camp less than a week after their season ended when they didn't make the playoffs? Seems newsworthy to me.

Also, it gives a pretty clear indication of which way Phil is leaning in the coaching search. Which is also newsworthy.

EnySpree @ 4/18/2016 8:39 PM
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

Have you ever heard of a team running a mini-camp less than a week after their season ended when they didn't make the playoffs? Seems newsworthy to me.

Also, it gives a pretty clear indication of which way Phil is leaning in the coaching search. Which is also newsworthy.

I'm talking about the garbage stuff said in the article besides mentioning the mini camp.

crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 8:42 PM
EnySpree wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

Have you ever heard of a team running a mini-camp less than a week after their season ended when they didn't make the playoffs? Seems newsworthy to me.

Also, it gives a pretty clear indication of which way Phil is leaning in the coaching search. Which is also newsworthy.

I'm talking about the garbage stuff said in the article besides mentioning the mini camp.

The Triangle screwed us coming into the league with MJ and Phil and now it'll screw us as it leaves the league forever.

No one will ever run it again after Phil walks out the door at MSG.

So in that light, I thought the article was pretty fair.

nixluva @ 4/18/2016 8:47 PM
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers


Yeah cuz it's a bad thing having the greatest coach teach his players. SMH. This kind of thing can only help. I've never heard of a team doing this but I do remember Phil and Rambis doing seminars before. Perhaps this is allowed if it's not mandatory.
crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 8:55 PM
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers


Yeah cuz it's a bad thing having the greatest coach teach his players. SMH. This kind of thing can only help. I've never heard of a team doing this but I do remember Phil and Rambis doing seminars before. Perhaps this is allowed if it's not mandatory.

I thought you said the key was upgrading the backcourt?

What's the point of a two day seminar with mediocre guards?

Phil should be exploring ways to upgrade the roster. He's not the coach, he's the President. If he's gonna coach, he should coach.

He should be searching for a coach.

Instead he is running an ego workshop while the TWolves lock down Thibs. Wolves will have a better record than the Knicks next year.

If Phil's job is President of the team, I'm not sure I see how this helps anything. He's already settled on Rambis without having a single in person interview with another candidate.

nixluva @ 4/18/2016 8:55 PM
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

Have you ever heard of a team running a mini-camp less than a week after their season ended when they didn't make the playoffs? Seems newsworthy to me.

Also, it gives a pretty clear indication of which way Phil is leaning in the coaching search. Which is also newsworthy.

I'm talking about the garbage stuff said in the article besides mentioning the mini camp.

The Triangle screwed us coming into the league with MJ and Phil and now it'll screw us as it leaves the league forever.

No one will ever run it again after Phil walks out the door at MSG.

So in that light, I thought the article was pretty fair.


Spurs run a lot of it now. Thibs was running it a LOT in Chicago. It's used more than people realize. I could care less if people follow what we do after Phil is gone. This team is being built to run the Triangle and there's nothing wrong with that. It's been proven to be just as efficient as most any other offense. You still need talent in order to win tho.

Phil is going to do what he has to in order to help his players learn how to play winning ball. He's not screwing the Knicks by teaching them how to play winning ball.

crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 8:58 PM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

Have you ever heard of a team running a mini-camp less than a week after their season ended when they didn't make the playoffs? Seems newsworthy to me.

Also, it gives a pretty clear indication of which way Phil is leaning in the coaching search. Which is also newsworthy.

I'm talking about the garbage stuff said in the article besides mentioning the mini camp.

The Triangle screwed us coming into the league with MJ and Phil and now it'll screw us as it leaves the league forever.

No one will ever run it again after Phil walks out the door at MSG.

So in that light, I thought the article was pretty fair.


Spurs run a lot of it now. Thibs was running it a LOT in Chicago. It's used more than people realize. I could care less if people follow what we do after Phil is gone. This team is being built to run the Triangle and there's nothing wrong with that. It's been proven to be just as efficient as most any other offense. You still need talent in order to win tho.

Phil is going to do what he has to in order to help his players learn how to play winning ball. He's not screwing the Knicks by teaching them how to play winning ball.

The Spurs don't run the Triangle. Thibs ran it maybe 25% of the time in Chicago. I wonder why he can't get an interview with the Knicks then?

And if the point is to upgrade the roster, as it should be for our team President, why is he spending time teaching guards he should be getting rid of?

martin @ 4/18/2016 9:04 PM
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers


Yeah cuz it's a bad thing having the greatest coach teach his players. SMH. This kind of thing can only help. I've never heard of a team doing this but I do remember Phil and Rambis doing seminars before. Perhaps this is allowed if it's not mandatory.

I thought you said the key was upgrading the backcourt?

What's the point of a two day seminar with mediocre guards?

Phil should be exploring ways to upgrade the roster. He's not the coach, he's the President. If he's gonna coach, he should coach.

He should be searching for a coach.

Instead he is running an ego workshop while the TWolves lock down Thibs. Wolves will have a better record than the Knicks next year.

If Phil's job is President of the team, I'm not sure I see how this helps anything. He's already settled on Rambis without having a single in person interview with another candidate.

This is kind of weird to me. You're assuming organizations can't do 2 things at 1 time. And if the greatest coach out there is teaching player and ball movement to KP, Grant, Wroten and anyone else that will show up.... that's not a good thing? It is, right?

The Knicks are not winning a championship within the next 2 years unless they sign LeBron or Westbrook next year. Continuity is probably the best thing for the young Knicks players in the mean time.

THE most important thing for the Knicks is growth of KP, Grant, Wroten (if he is physically able).

crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 9:07 PM
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers


Yeah cuz it's a bad thing having the greatest coach teach his players. SMH. This kind of thing can only help. I've never heard of a team doing this but I do remember Phil and Rambis doing seminars before. Perhaps this is allowed if it's not mandatory.

I thought you said the key was upgrading the backcourt?

What's the point of a two day seminar with mediocre guards?

Phil should be exploring ways to upgrade the roster. He's not the coach, he's the President. If he's gonna coach, he should coach.

He should be searching for a coach.

Instead he is running an ego workshop while the TWolves lock down Thibs. Wolves will have a better record than the Knicks next year.

If Phil's job is President of the team, I'm not sure I see how this helps anything. He's already settled on Rambis without having a single in person interview with another candidate.

This is kind of weird to me. You're assuming organizations can't do 2 things at 1 time. And if the greatest coach out there is teaching player and ball movement to KP, Grant, Wroten and anyone else that will show up.... that's not a good thing? It is, right?

The Knicks are not winning a championship within the next 2 years unless they sign LeBron or Westbrook next year. Continuity is probably the best thing for the young Knicks players in the mean time.

THE most important thing for the Knicks is growth of KP, Grant, Wroten (if he is physically able).

To me it is an indication that he has forgone a coaching search in favor of doubling down on the Triangle. An indication he is more concerned with the success of the Triangle than bringing in the best coach for the job.

A good coach does player development. I want the best coach we can get. We're getting Rambis. Who seems fine.

I just think it is a bad situation. I don't think we will see success with Phil trying to recreate the Triangle here. I think it is insanely shortsighted not to speak to the best coaches available.

Que sera.

CrushAlot @ 4/18/2016 9:20 PM
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shit article....

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

Isola is going off on Phil. The Bannister article, the inaccurate Walton spin, putting in this article that the pressure is getting to Phil, etc. He might have chased Walton off on his own. CBS Sports radio called the Knicks a dumpster fire, PTI called the team something not pleasant and suggested that Walton shouldn't take the job because of the spectre of Isiah, ownership and the fact that Phil could just pack up and go to LA. It will be interesting to see if Phil handles this nonsense as well as Melo has in the past. Not sure why anyone would want to play in NY with this type of coverage.
nixluva @ 4/18/2016 9:23 PM
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

Have you ever heard of a team running a mini-camp less than a week after their season ended when they didn't make the playoffs? Seems newsworthy to me.

Also, it gives a pretty clear indication of which way Phil is leaning in the coaching search. Which is also newsworthy.

I'm talking about the garbage stuff said in the article besides mentioning the mini camp.

The Triangle screwed us coming into the league with MJ and Phil and now it'll screw us as it leaves the league forever.

No one will ever run it again after Phil walks out the door at MSG.

So in that light, I thought the article was pretty fair.


Spurs run a lot of it now. Thibs was running it a LOT in Chicago. It's used more than people realize. I could care less if people follow what we do after Phil is gone. This team is being built to run the Triangle and there's nothing wrong with that. It's been proven to be just as efficient as most any other offense. You still need talent in order to win tho.

Phil is going to do what he has to in order to help his players learn how to play winning ball. He's not screwing the Knicks by teaching them how to play winning ball.

The Spurs don't run the Triangle. Thibs ran it maybe 25% of the time in Chicago. I wonder why he can't get an interview with the Knicks then?

And if the point is to upgrade the roster, as it should be for our team President, why is he spending time teaching guards he should be getting rid of?

Bulls running Triangle a quarter of the time is a significant amount.
Spurs have used the Triangle. It may be tweaked but it's still the Triangle.

crzymdups @ 4/18/2016 9:32 PM
Nixluva, didn't Fisher try to modify the Triangle and get fired because of that? He tried to add some pick and roll, which was actually successful, and he got fired. Rambis was elevated to install the "pure triangle". Their record was much worse with him, but hey at least the principals were pure.

I would have no problem with Phil if he was open to adapting or updating the Triangle. He's not. He's said this and proven this time and again.

CrushAlot @ 4/18/2016 9:38 PM
crzymdups wrote:Nixluva, didn't Fisher try to modify the Triangle and get fired because of that? He tried to add some pick and roll, which was actually successful, and he got fired. Rambis was elevated to install the "pure triangle". Their record was much worse with him, but hey at least the principals were pure.

I would have no problem with Phil if he was open to adapting or updating the Triangle. He's not. He's said this and proven this time and again.

I think he got fired for a lot of reasons.
stopstandthere @ 4/18/2016 9:39 PM
Why Phil is so obsessed with Triangle?
martin @ 4/18/2016 9:40 PM
crzymdups wrote:Nixluva, didn't Fisher try to modify the Triangle and get fired because of that? He tried to add some pick and roll, which was actually successful, and he got fired. Rambis was elevated to install the "pure triangle". Their record was much worse with him, but hey at least the principals were pure.

I would have no problem with Phil if he was open to adapting or updating the Triangle. He's not. He's said this and proven this time and again.

I understood that to be a flat no.

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