Knicks · Article: Knicks’ Coaching Options Are Clear, Except Maybe to Phil Jackson (page 1)

martin @ 5/6/2016 12:27 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/sports...

Thought this was a decent article:

Knicks’ Coaching Options Are Clear, Except Maybe to Phil Jackson
By HARVEY ARATON MAY 5, 2016


As much as he fancies himself the consummate contrarian and Zen-versed outlier to conventional thinking, Phil Jackson’s supposed preference for removing the interim label on Kurt Rambis as the Knicks’ head coach now seems extreme and perhaps even irrational.

On Thursday, Larry Bird, the Indiana Pacers’ president, announced that Frank Vogel would not return as head coach after five and a half seasons, five playoff appearances and two Eastern Conference finals runs, thwarted in both of those instances by no less formidable an opponent than LeBron James’s Miami Heat.

Vogel, 42, has won more N.B.A. games than any Pacers coach before him, worked briefly for the Los Angeles Lakers as an advance scout during Jackson’s coaching reign there, has spoken glowingly of Jackson’s stylistic influence on the sport and flattered him further by hiring Brian Shaw, a Jackson protégé, as an assistant in Indiana.

Vogel was also not only born (Pensacola, Fla.) and raised (Wildwood, N.J.) in the United States — as was David Blatt, who was recently interviewed for the head-coaching job by Jackson — he came up, unlike Blatt, through the coaching ranks the good old American way.

In other words, there is nothing on Vogel’s résumé that occurred in any other country than the one that claims to have invented the game and most of the sideshows that go with it.

Meanwhile, according to a person close to Blatt, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the current coaching search, Blatt at least came away from his chat with Jackson with the belief that he was a legitimate candidate for the Knicks job.

He pitched himself to Jackson as a defensive-minded coach who, while playing collegiately at Princeton, was reared on the joy of a deliberate, five-man offense and therefore amenable to embracing Jackson’s beloved triangle. He reminded Jackson that he initially went to Cleveland in 2014 to coach a young, undisciplined Cavaliers team, a work in progress. That was before James suddenly returned as the homecoming King, when the Cavs were essentially the Knicks, minus the veteran shotmaking of Carmelo Anthony.

As for what occurred in Cleveland during Blatt’s season and a half there, wasn’t it obvious that he couldn’t win over James without winning a championship? This, in large part, was because James, the de facto franchise strongman, didn’t choose or approve Blatt as coach in the first place. Nor did it help that James created an immediate all-or-nothing mandate in Cleveland through the Kevin Love acquisition after initially pleading for patience with an inexperienced roster.

As impressive a coaching portfolio as Blatt created overseas in places like Russia and Israel, there was never a chance it would provide him with the leverage or credibility to avoid becoming the scapegoat with the Cavaliers, even after getting to two victories away from the title last June without two of the team’s best three players and despite winning 30 of 41 games this season with a still-battered roster.

Yes, it has long been established that foreign-born players can thrive here, in an N.B.A. of opulence and opportunity. But what about European-trained coaches? We checked in with Maurizio Gherardini, a longtime Italian league general manager who worked in the Toronto Raptors’ front office as an assistant general manager for seven years before taking over the Turkish power Fenerbahce Ulker.

“I’ve been privileged enough in my years at Benetton Treviso to work with three N.B.A.-to-become coaches — Mike D’Antoni, David Blatt and Ettore Messina,” he said. “The commitment by an N.B.A. franchise to go for a Euro coach is more complicated, even if he may eventually be a great strategist or an innovator.”
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He added: “D’Antoni was initially perceived not much of an option when he first started in Denver, but then in Phoenix he developed a basketball style that somehow changed the overall quality of the game — and it’s not a surprise that the Warriors and Steve Kerr somehow have developed their game on the basis of the basketball played those years in Phoenix.

“Messina has taken the path of showing his value on a prestigious bench like the Spurs’ in order to increase his chances. Blatt coached the best player in the game in Cleveland, but he was perceived more European than American and, bottom line, it will always take a strong commitment by an organization to go for a foreign coach as such a decision needs to be bought into by your top players who, most of the time, are not European.”

Too often, old-school perception weighs more heavily than performance. Had Blatt coached at Kentucky, he would have American court cred. James never bought into him. His teammates followed their leader.

That doesn’t mean Blatt would not be a good fit with the Knicks. Jackson’s original coaching choice, Golden State’s Kerr, was about to hire Blatt as an assistant before Cleveland signed him. He no doubt has endorsed Blatt to Jackson.

Would Anthony, James’s good buddy, buy in? He doesn’t have James’s clout, nor does he deserve it, and, anyway, Kristaps Porzingis represents the Knicks’ long-term future. Porzingis, a 20-year-old Latvian, would not be an issue. But if Jackson is concerned about Blatt’s impact on Anthony and possibly others easily influenced by James, including targeted free agents, he now has Vogel on the coaching free-agent market.

In Indianapolis, Bird said, “It’s time for a new voice around here,” saying he preferred to play a faster brand of ball, even if Vogel’s roster wasn’t exactly Golden State speedy. Fair enough. Coaches are hired to be fired, but those with solid reputations also get rehired.

Already mentioned as a possibility in Houston, Vogel probably won’t be unemployed very long. Blatt could wind up in Sacramento, where Vivek Ranadive, born in India, is the owner and Vlade Divac, a Serb, is the top basketball executive.

The time for Jackson to act would seem to be soon, unless he really is intent on running out the clock to facilitate the anointing of his friend, the 58-year-old Rambis, and his 65-164 career coaching record.

That would be a decision sure to infuriate the Knicks’ fan base, at least some of the players and possibly the owner, James L. Dolan. But with all the brand-name coaches he has ignored, Jackson still has viable options, solid choices.

He just has to make one, and let common sense triumph over the temptation to be contrary.

franco12 @ 5/6/2016 12:44 PM
I think Phil is waiting until his only choice is the one he is most comfortable with - Rambis.
ChuckBuck @ 5/6/2016 1:18 PM
franco12 wrote:I think Phil is waiting until his only choice is the one he is most comfortable with - Rambis.

True. Unlike tomorrow's Kentucky Derby, this is a one horse race. He's basically waiting it out until all coaches are signed to new team's and he'll say, well "we interviewed the best candidates and they just weren't a fit, so we feel confident in Kurt's abilities to move the franchise forward YADA YADA YADA".

Awful.

DrAlphaeus @ 5/6/2016 1:54 PM
I like the title Posting & Toasting used in the blog post regarding this article:

Hey look, some actual reporting on David Blatt's meeting with Phil Jackson
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/5...

I also agree with Seth that Araton going on and on about the "foreign" angle with Blatt vs. the "good old American" credentials of Vogel is weird.

nixluva @ 5/6/2016 2:17 PM
In the end Phil is actually talking to coaches even if he hasn't gone after every single available coach. It's his prerogative to do his coaching search his way. Blatt he talked to and he at least touched base with Luke to see what he was thinking. Thibs was never gonna happen for various reasons. So now he has Vogel to reach out to. I suspect there will be someone else before he's done.
mreinman @ 5/6/2016 3:04 PM
nixluva wrote:In the end Phil is actually talking to coaches even if he hasn't gone after every single available coach. It's his prerogative to do his coaching search his way. Blatt he talked to and he at least touched base with Luke to see what he was thinking. Thibs was never gonna happen for various reasons. So now he has Vogel to reach out to. I suspect there will be someone else before he's done.

how about a critical take on this?

nixluva @ 5/6/2016 3:10 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:In the end Phil is actually talking to coaches even if he hasn't gone after every single available coach. It's his prerogative to do his coaching search his way. Blatt he talked to and he at least touched base with Luke to see what he was thinking. Thibs was never gonna happen for various reasons. So now he has Vogel to reach out to. I suspect there will be someone else before he's done.

how about a critical take on this?

Don't see much to be critical of. The search is ongoing until he names a new head coach. Seems as if the Media wants to paint Phil as not working hard enough. I think that's a bogus take on his work for this franchise. He's the Prez and not the GM. There's a difference! Isola and others are always pointing out Phil isn't scouting or doing some other GM activity and they seem ignorant to the fact that he's the Prez.

There's plenty of time to conduct interviews and sign a head coach.

fishmike @ 5/6/2016 3:10 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:In the end Phil is actually talking to coaches even if he hasn't gone after every single available coach. It's his prerogative to do his coaching search his way. Blatt he talked to and he at least touched base with Luke to see what he was thinking. Thibs was never gonna happen for various reasons. So now he has Vogel to reach out to. I suspect there will be someone else before he's done.

how about a critical take on this?

lol
Nalod @ 5/6/2016 4:04 PM
ChuckBuck @ 5/6/2016 4:43 PM
Vogel would be a slam dunk hire obviously. Everyone knows this, except the one that counts, Phil Jackson.

But Phil's tenure as an executive has been sketchy at best. It's not surprising in his 3 years here.


Guy just looks and talks like that old Grandpa that served in WWII, but is out of place in today's world. Yes, you respect him, but he's set in his ways and can't adapt to today's NBA.

mreinman @ 5/6/2016 4:46 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:Vogel would be a slam dunk hire obviously. Everyone knows this, except the one that counts, Phil Jackson.

But Phil's tenure as an executive has been sketchy at best. It's not surprising in his 3 years here.


Guy just looks and talks like that old Grandpa that served in WWII, but is out of place in today's world. Yes, you respect him, but he's set in his ways and can't adapt to today's NBA.

please stop!! I can't take anymore if this negativity. Can't I just lie and drink my way through it?

franco12 @ 5/6/2016 5:16 PM
is that a current picture of Phil? OMG is he old.
franco12 @ 5/6/2016 5:17 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
franco12 wrote:I think Phil is waiting until his only choice is the one he is most comfortable with - Rambis.

True. Unlike tomorrow's Kentucky Derby, this is a one horse race. He's basically waiting it out until all coaches are signed to new team's and he'll say, well "we interviewed the best candidates and they just weren't a fit, so we feel confident in Kurt's abilities to move the franchise forward YADA YADA YADA".

Awful.

Unless Phil is planning this being a long rebuild, and rather than have a real coach mess it up/grow frustrated with losing, he'll have Rambis land on his sword to get the foundation laid (e.g., get some more talent in next years draft, sign only young players, 1 year vets this summer).

crzymdups @ 5/7/2016 12:51 AM
franco12 wrote:is that a current picture of Phil? OMG is he old.

I think he's worn out. We're starting to see Mills take more of a lead in the coaching search. Blatt is a Mills guy. Mills reached out to Vogel. Phil is on vacay. Says it all.

nixluva @ 5/7/2016 1:20 AM
crzymdups wrote:
franco12 wrote:is that a current picture of Phil? OMG is he old.

I think he's worn out. We're starting to see Mills take more of a lead in the coaching search. Blatt is a Mills guy. Mills reached out to Vogel. Phil is on vacay. Says it all.

Mills is the damned GM, not Phil. Mills is supposed to do all the hands on work. Phil is mostly the big picture guy. He doesn't have to make every call.

franco12 @ 5/7/2016 6:59 AM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
franco12 wrote:is that a current picture of Phil? OMG is he old.

I think he's worn out. We're starting to see Mills take more of a lead in the coaching search. Blatt is a Mills guy. Mills reached out to Vogel. Phil is on vacay. Says it all.

Mills is the damned GM, not Phil. Mills is supposed to do all the hands on work. Phil is mostly the big picture guy. He doesn't have to make every call.

big picture is 'we want to run a team oriented system' and Mr Dolan, I've got this.

Micromanagement is we can only run the triangle, that coach must be someone from my (tiny) coaching tree and I won't interview any other coach, no matter how much success they may have had elsewhere. It doesn't matter, I'm picking .284% winning percentage Kurt Rambis.

A .284% batting percentage isn't enough to get you into the baseball HOF unless maybe you're a pitcher.

Whether Mills is playing a bigger role or not - we don't know.

But I do know that picking Rambis over established winners that are open to playing a similar offensive system is not helping this franchise.

Great that Phil has used his 11 rings to muscle Dolan out of the day to day meddling.

But right now, at this moment, looking at the body of work Phil has as President of the Knicks, I don't know that I see more than a 500 success record on transactions. KP is his one big win, and honestly that is as much as others telling him he was the best talent and us falling into the 4 spot. If we're picking 2 or 3, do we know we pick KP?

Robin Lopez - decent signing.

Strikes out on Kerr, ok.

Fisher is a complete disaster of a decision.

The Calderon trade - bad at worst.

What other wins does he have as President, outside of keeping Dolan out of the picture? And yes, that is huge.

Finestrg @ 5/7/2016 10:18 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
franco12 wrote:I think Phil is waiting until his only choice is the one he is most comfortable with - Rambis.

True. Unlike tomorrow's Kentucky Derby, this is a one horse race. He's basically waiting it out until all coaches are signed to new team's and he'll say, well "we interviewed the best candidates and they just weren't a fit, so we feel confident in Kurt's abilities to move the franchise forward YADA YADA YADA".

Awful.

I honestly believe there's something to that. Listen man, to be away in Montana tweeting photos of yourself while there's a coaching search going on is not a good look. Bottom line. Doesn't sit well with me.

Finestrg @ 5/7/2016 10:27 AM
crzymdups wrote:
franco12 wrote:is that a current picture of Phil? OMG is he old.

I think he's worn out. We're starting to see Mills take more of a lead in the coaching search. Blatt is a Mills guy. Mills reached out to Vogel. Phil is on vacay. Says it all.

Completely agree.

crzymdups @ 5/7/2016 10:58 AM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
franco12 wrote:is that a current picture of Phil? OMG is he old.

I think he's worn out. We're starting to see Mills take more of a lead in the coaching search. Blatt is a Mills guy. Mills reached out to Vogel. Phil is on vacay. Says it all.

Mills is the damned GM, not Phil. Mills is supposed to do all the hands on work. Phil is mostly the big picture guy. He doesn't have to make every call.

Lol. This is a new level. So wait did Mills make the call to draft KP? Or does he only make the calls when people are unhappy with the result? Man, Knicks coulda signed LaMarcus Aldridge I heard, but Mills made the call. Luckily Phil jumped in and called Robin Lopez. Phew!

nixluva @ 5/7/2016 11:30 AM
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
franco12 wrote:is that a current picture of Phil? OMG is he old.

I think he's worn out. We're starting to see Mills take more of a lead in the coaching search. Blatt is a Mills guy. Mills reached out to Vogel. Phil is on vacay. Says it all.

Mills is the damned GM, not Phil. Mills is supposed to do all the hands on work. Phil is mostly the big picture guy. He doesn't have to make every call.

Lol. This is a new level. So wait did Mills make the call to draft KP? Or does he only make the calls when people are unhappy with the result? Man, Knicks coulda signed LaMarcus Aldridge I heard, but Mills made the call. Luckily Phil jumped in and called Robin Lopez. Phew!

Mills did go to Europe to check out KP, Willy and others and all along he's been part of the decision making process. You're assumptions make no sense. Mills does a LOT of the day to day work of a GM. Mills is the most likely candidate to take over when Phil leaves and he'll be well groomed to do that. You really are making a fool of yourself on this topic.

Mills also made a trip to Spain to watch Porzingis in the ACB league, and that’s when 21-year-old center Guillermo Hernangomez, whom the Knicks selected in the second round, caught his eye. The Knicks made a deal with the Sixers to take Hernangomez with the 35th pick, and the Knicks plan to have him on the team in 2016-17. Jackson never traveled to Spain to see Porzingis or Hernangomez.
http://nypost.com/2015/07/14/how-the-kni...
Vmart @ 5/7/2016 12:03 PM
This has nothing to do with coaching. The Knicks problems are a lack of talent problem right now. Developing players trying to mesh with players who are reeling with their past prime talent. This is the Mr. Miaggi proverb of squish like grape. Talent level rising and talent level dropping caught in the middle squish like grape. We should not be worried about a coach for the next few years. Get the talent up and then get the coach.
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