Knicks · The Value of Signing Pau Gasol: A Top Four NBA Frontcourt for Knicks . . . (page 1)

I disagree that Knicks have no chance to get Gasol.

It seems very, very do-able to me . . . and would be a GREAT move.

So here's the thinking on that:

(1) Gasol has already won 2 championships -- he's not desperate
to win more.

(2) He did try for another in Chicago -- and that didn't work out
so well.

(3) There's little value to him in being just a bench contributor
on Warriors or Spurs championship teams.

but . . .

(4) He likes cosmopolitan cities -- New York qualifies.

(5) He is friendly with Phil Jackson.

(6) He might like mentoring Porzingis and Hernangomez (fellow
Spaniard) in Triangle frontcourt play.

so . . .

(7) Knicks can easily afford the (reduced) salary that he would
require ($7.5 million/year for 2 years).

(8) Along with re-signing Williams (also EASILY do-able), a Gasol
signing would give Knicks a VERY SERIOUS and VERY DEEP Triangle-savvy
frontcourt:

Lopez (C)
Porzingis (PF)
Anthony (SF)

Gasol (C)
Hernangomez (PF)
Williams/Thomas (SF)

(9) This may be as good as a TOP FOUR frontcourt in the NBA. How
many would be better (?)

(10) This makes for a SURE-FIRE playoff team next year . . . even
with just AVERAGE progress in re-building the backcourt.

(11) It seriously builds Triangle culture for future.

(12) This requires only an AVERAGE effort from Jackson for what we
hired him to be able to do (!)

So DO IT (!)

Make it a TOP PRIORITY (!)

GASOL BLEW PHIL 2 yrs ago when phil was begging melo to resign, wanted him to take a pay cut, gasol went to the bulls. We're not championship ready and that's what a vet like that looks for

Phil tried to sell Gasol on becoming a UN diplomat last time. Maybe Gasol is ready now? But he was still an all-star in Chicago.

Not sure if he'd come, but I agree he would be an absolutely perfect fit for the frontcourt.

knicks1248 wrote:GASOL BLEW PHIL 2 yrs ago when phil was begging melo to resign, wanted him to take a pay cut, gasol went to the bulls. We're not championship ready and that's what a vet like that looks for

Knicks have more money NOW than they did before -- they can pay.

What team would make Gasol happier on personal level (?)

Is being a bench contributor for Spurs or Warriors more satisfying
than mentoring in a Triangle system (?)

I think Jackson can make the case for Gasol to be happy in NYC . . .

Malcolm wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:GASOL BLEW PHIL 2 yrs ago when phil was begging melo to resign, wanted him to take a pay cut, gasol went to the bulls. We're not championship ready and that's what a vet like that looks for

Knicks have more money NOW than they did before -- they can pay.

What team would make Gasol happier on personal level (?)

Is being a bench contributor for Spurs or Warriors more satisfying
than mentoring in a Triangle system (?)

I think Jackson can make the case for Gasol to be happy in NYC . . .

I've heard he might go back to Memphis to play alongside his brother.

I agree you can make a case for the Knicks being top 5 on his list.

Going back to the Lakers might also make sense - that team desperately needs a big and he worked with Walton before.

crzymdups wrote:Phil tried to sell Gasol on becoming a UN diplomat last time. Maybe Gasol is ready now?

I think there's a good chance.

2 years ago . . . Knicks had only $2-3 million to offer Gasol.

Money is not everything . . . but it's not nothing, either.

Knicks can now afford to pay the $7.5 million.

They also have Porzingis and a playoff-level team . . .

Malcolm wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil tried to sell Gasol on becoming a UN diplomat last time. Maybe Gasol is ready now?

I think there's a good chance.

2 years ago . . . Knicks had only $2-3 million to offer Gasol.

Money is not everything . . . but it's not nothing, either.

Knicks can now afford to pay the $7.5 million.

They also have Porzingis and a playoff-level team . . .

who has a playoff level team?

Malcolm wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil tried to sell Gasol on becoming a UN diplomat last time. Maybe Gasol is ready now?

I think there's a good chance.

2 years ago . . . Knicks had only $2-3 million to offer Gasol.

Money is not everything . . . but it's not nothing, either.

Knicks can now afford to pay the $7.5 million.

They also have Porzingis and a playoff-level team . . .

Is he definitely opting out? If so do you think it is to get more money/years? I do think he would be a great addition.

mreinman wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil tried to sell Gasol on becoming a UN diplomat last time. Maybe Gasol is ready now?

I think there's a good chance.

2 years ago . . . Knicks had only $2-3 million to offer Gasol.

Money is not everything . . . but it's not nothing, either.

Knicks can now afford to pay the $7.5 million.

They also have Porzingis and a playoff-level team . . .

who has a playoff level team?

I didn't know 32 wins was playoff level. SHieeet, not even .500 ball is playoff level in the east nowadays.

This wouldn't be a top 4 front court unless KP becomes a superstar in year 2. Off the top of my head, any frontcourt with Lebron or Durant or Leonard or a few other top players is already better. Statistically, I'm going to guess this is more like a top 12 frontcourt.

arent we tired of getting old men way way way past their prime?

I thought I read it will take more than 7.5mil to sign him. With Capspace abundant in the league, this guy will command and receive double of what he made last year.

callmened wrote:arent we tired of getting old men way way way past their prime?

i agree. great guy but two years past old

vet min

Bonn1997 wrote:This wouldn't be a top 4 front court unless KP becomes a superstar in year 2. Off the top of my head, any frontcourt with Lebron or Durant or Leonard or a few other top players is already better. Statistically, I'm going to guess this is more like a top 12 frontcourt.

I'm not sure you're right statistically.

If you averaged the PERs for the frontcourt rotation (five players) on every team,
I think you'd find my proposed Knicks frontcourt to be among top four.

I'm too lazy to do it . . . but I'd be very surprised if that's not true.

Remember: Anthony is 20.4, Gasol is 21.8, and the other 3 (Williams,
Porzingis, Lopez) are all near 18.0 . . .

Malcolm wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:This wouldn't be a top 4 front court unless KP becomes a superstar in year 2. Off the top of my head, any frontcourt with Lebron or Durant or Leonard or a few other top players is already better. Statistically, I'm going to guess this is more like a top 12 frontcourt.

I'm not sure you're right statistically.

If you averaged the PERs for the frontcourt rotation (five players) on every team,
I think you'd find my proposed Knicks frontcourt to be among top four.

I'm too lazy to do it . . . but I'd be very surprised if that's not true.

Remember: Anthony is 20.4, Gasol is 21.8, and the other 3 (Williams,
Porzingis, Lopez) are all near 18.0 . . .

The stats comunity doesn't really respect PER much. That said, I don't think it changes things that much. Remember the average NBA player has a PER of 15. That means the average NBA STARTER is going to be significantly higher than 15. In his book, Hollinger (the person who developed PER) came up with labels for different PER levels (like 30.0 = MVP level player). He has 22.5 as "all-star." So that means using his system we'd have zero all-stars.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:This wouldn't be a top 4 front court unless KP becomes a superstar in year 2. Off the top of my head, any frontcourt with Lebron or Durant or Leonard or a few other top players is already better. Statistically, I'm going to guess this is more like a top 12 frontcourt.

I'm not sure you're right statistically.

If you averaged the PERs for the frontcourt rotation (five players) on every team,
I think you'd find my proposed Knicks frontcourt to be among top four.

I'm too lazy to do it . . . but I'd be very surprised if that's not true.

Remember: Anthony is 20.4, Gasol is 21.8, and the other 3 (Williams,
Porzingis, Lopez) are all near 18.0 . . .

The stats comunity doesn't really respect PER much. That said, I don't think it changes things that much. Remember the average NBA player has a PER of 15. That means the average NBA STARTER is going to be significantly higher than 15. In his book, Hollinger (the person who developed PER) came up with labels for different PER levels (like 30.0 = MVP level player). He has 22.5 as "all-star." So that means using his system we'd have zero all-stars.

Nice way to downplay the Knicks Frontcourt. I don't know about were the Knicks would be hypothetically after adding Pau but this last season they were already up pretty high and that to me is not the ceiling for this frontcourt at all.

 
NBA Frontcourt Stats | Overall Stats	                            
No Team	         G  Min  Pts  Reb  Ast  Stl  Blk  To  Pf   Dreb  Oreb  Fgm-a     Pct  3gm-a    Pct  Ftm-a     Pct  Eff  Deff
1  San Antonio	 86 47.4 65.5 32.5 11.9 4.7  4.9  7.1 10.7 24.9  7.6   25.7-50.2 .512 2.5-6.4  .397 11.6-14.3 .810 85.2 22.5
2  Oklahoma City 87 48.3 65.7 34.7 7.7  3.3  4.9  8.2 13.4 24.5  10.1  25.1-48.9 .512 3.9-11.1 .356 11.7-15.0 .778 80.8 13.8
3  Cleveland	 86 48.3 63.5 34.9 11.6 3.7  3.0  7.7 12.2 26.1  8.8   23.5-48.6 .484 4.9-14.3 .345 11.5-15.8 .728 79.8 13.5
4  Atlanta	 88 48.9 61.4 31.8 11.8 5.6  5.1  7.5 12.0 24.6  7.2   23.6-49.5 .477 5.1-14.7 .345 9.1-12.0  .756 79.4 7.7
5  Indiana	 87 48.6 64.5 33.0 9.8  4.9  3.9  8.6 13.8 24.5  8.5   24.1-51.6 .466 4.5-12.3 .364 11.9-15.6 .760 76.2 7.5
6  Utah	         82 49.0 57.7 33.0 9.3  4.7  4.6  8.3 12.4 23.8  9.2   21.4-45.4 .471 3.5-10.0 .353 11.4-15.9 .719 72.5 7.2
7  Golden State	 87 47.2 52.6 33.1 16.0 4.2  4.8  8.0 13.5 25.4  7.7   20.0-41.4 .484 4.4-11.4 .388 8.1-12.3  .658 77.0 7.0
8  Denver	 82 48.5 65.1 34.5 10.4 4.3  3.8  7.8 14.1 24.7  9.8   24.1-51.4 .469 3.8-11.0 .347 13.0-16.9 .769 79.2 4.2
9  Miami	 87 47.9 56.8 32.4 7.9  3.8  5.2  6.5 11.4 25.1  7.3   21.5-44.3 .487 3.7-10.7 .344 10.0-13.8 .726 72.9 4.1
10 New York	 82 47.1 65.6 31.8 9.7  2.7  5.1  8.4 12.2 23.0  8.8   24.5-54.9 .447 3.6-10.9 .334 13.0-16.1 .807 73.1 3.1

The Knicks should improve next year even without any significant changes, but chances are the team makes some upgrades, which should help the bigs to be even more productive.

nixluva wrote:I don't know about where the Knicks would be hypothetically after adding Pau . . .

Well.

I guess I'm just one of those crazy guys who thinks that adding
an all-star Triangle player . . . might sort of help a little.

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't know about where the Knicks would be hypothetically after adding Pau . . .

Well.

I guess I'm just one of those crazy guys who thinks that adding
an all-star Triangle player . . . might sort of help a little.

I like Pau for the Knicks. I just can't say exactly where that would put the Knicks ranking wise. They'd no doubt be better tho.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:This wouldn't be a top 4 front court unless KP becomes a superstar in year 2. Off the top of my head, any frontcourt with Lebron or Durant or Leonard or a few other top players is already better. Statistically, I'm going to guess this is more like a top 12 frontcourt.

I'm not sure you're right statistically.

If you averaged the PERs for the frontcourt rotation (five players) on every team,
I think you'd find my proposed Knicks frontcourt to be among top four.

I'm too lazy to do it . . . but I'd be very surprised if that's not true.

Remember: Anthony is 20.4, Gasol is 21.8, and the other 3 (Williams,
Porzingis, Lopez) are all near 18.0 . . .

The stats comunity doesn't really respect PER much. That said, I don't think it changes things that much. Remember the average NBA player has a PER of 15. That means the average NBA STARTER is going to be significantly higher than 15. In his book, Hollinger (the person who developed PER) came up with labels for different PER levels (like 30.0 = MVP level player). He has 22.5 as "all-star." So that means using his system we'd have zero all-stars.

Nice way to downplay the Knicks Frontcourt. I don't know about were the Knicks would be hypothetically after adding Pau but this last season they were already up pretty high and that to me is not the ceiling for this frontcourt at all.

 
NBA Frontcourt Stats | Overall Stats	                            
No Team	         G  Min  Pts  Reb  Ast  Stl  Blk  To  Pf   Dreb  Oreb  Fgm-a     Pct  3gm-a    Pct  Ftm-a     Pct  Eff  Deff
1  San Antonio	 86 47.4 65.5 32.5 11.9 4.7  4.9  7.1 10.7 24.9  7.6   25.7-50.2 .512 2.5-6.4  .397 11.6-14.3 .810 85.2 22.5
2  Oklahoma City 87 48.3 65.7 34.7 7.7  3.3  4.9  8.2 13.4 24.5  10.1  25.1-48.9 .512 3.9-11.1 .356 11.7-15.0 .778 80.8 13.8
3  Cleveland	 86 48.3 63.5 34.9 11.6 3.7  3.0  7.7 12.2 26.1  8.8   23.5-48.6 .484 4.9-14.3 .345 11.5-15.8 .728 79.8 13.5
4  Atlanta	 88 48.9 61.4 31.8 11.8 5.6  5.1  7.5 12.0 24.6  7.2   23.6-49.5 .477 5.1-14.7 .345 9.1-12.0  .756 79.4 7.7
5  Indiana	 87 48.6 64.5 33.0 9.8  4.9  3.9  8.6 13.8 24.5  8.5   24.1-51.6 .466 4.5-12.3 .364 11.9-15.6 .760 76.2 7.5
6  Utah	         82 49.0 57.7 33.0 9.3  4.7  4.6  8.3 12.4 23.8  9.2   21.4-45.4 .471 3.5-10.0 .353 11.4-15.9 .719 72.5 7.2
7  Golden State	 87 47.2 52.6 33.1 16.0 4.2  4.8  8.0 13.5 25.4  7.7   20.0-41.4 .484 4.4-11.4 .388 8.1-12.3  .658 77.0 7.0
8  Denver	 82 48.5 65.1 34.5 10.4 4.3  3.8  7.8 14.1 24.7  9.8   24.1-51.4 .469 3.8-11.0 .347 13.0-16.9 .769 79.2 4.2
9  Miami	 87 47.9 56.8 32.4 7.9  3.8  5.2  6.5 11.4 25.1  7.3   21.5-44.3 .487 3.7-10.7 .344 10.0-13.8 .726 72.9 4.1
10 New York	 82 47.1 65.6 31.8 9.7  2.7  5.1  8.4 12.2 23.0  8.8   24.5-54.9 .447 3.6-10.9 .334 13.0-16.1 .807 73.1 3.1

The Knicks should improve next year even without any significant changes, but chances are the team makes some upgrades, which should help the bigs to be even more productive.

Yeah, the stats have a strange way of downplaying our team.
I don't understand what you're showing in the table. What exactly is it that our front-court ranks tenth in?

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:This wouldn't be a top 4 front court unless KP becomes a superstar in year 2. Off the top of my head, any frontcourt with Lebron or Durant or Leonard or a few other top players is already better. Statistically, I'm going to guess this is more like a top 12 frontcourt.

I'm not sure you're right statistically.

If you averaged the PERs for the frontcourt rotation (five players) on every team,
I think you'd find my proposed Knicks frontcourt to be among top four.

I'm too lazy to do it . . . but I'd be very surprised if that's not true.

Remember: Anthony is 20.4, Gasol is 21.8, and the other 3 (Williams,
Porzingis, Lopez) are all near 18.0 . . .

The stats comunity doesn't really respect PER much. That said, I don't think it changes things that much. Remember the average NBA player has a PER of 15. That means the average NBA STARTER is going to be significantly higher than 15. In his book, Hollinger (the person who developed PER) came up with labels for different PER levels (like 30.0 = MVP level player). He has 22.5 as "all-star." So that means using his system we'd have zero all-stars.

Nice way to downplay the Knicks Frontcourt. I don't know about were the Knicks would be hypothetically after adding Pau but this last season they were already up pretty high and that to me is not the ceiling for this frontcourt at all.

 
NBA Frontcourt Stats | Overall Stats	                            
No Team	         G  Min  Pts  Reb  Ast  Stl  Blk  To  Pf   Dreb  Oreb  Fgm-a     Pct  3gm-a    Pct  Ftm-a     Pct  Eff  Deff
1  San Antonio	 86 47.4 65.5 32.5 11.9 4.7  4.9  7.1 10.7 24.9  7.6   25.7-50.2 .512 2.5-6.4  .397 11.6-14.3 .810 85.2 22.5
2  Oklahoma City 87 48.3 65.7 34.7 7.7  3.3  4.9  8.2 13.4 24.5  10.1  25.1-48.9 .512 3.9-11.1 .356 11.7-15.0 .778 80.8 13.8
3  Cleveland	 86 48.3 63.5 34.9 11.6 3.7  3.0  7.7 12.2 26.1  8.8   23.5-48.6 .484 4.9-14.3 .345 11.5-15.8 .728 79.8 13.5
4  Atlanta	 88 48.9 61.4 31.8 11.8 5.6  5.1  7.5 12.0 24.6  7.2   23.6-49.5 .477 5.1-14.7 .345 9.1-12.0  .756 79.4 7.7
5  Indiana	 87 48.6 64.5 33.0 9.8  4.9  3.9  8.6 13.8 24.5  8.5   24.1-51.6 .466 4.5-12.3 .364 11.9-15.6 .760 76.2 7.5
6  Utah	         82 49.0 57.7 33.0 9.3  4.7  4.6  8.3 12.4 23.8  9.2   21.4-45.4 .471 3.5-10.0 .353 11.4-15.9 .719 72.5 7.2
7  Golden State	 87 47.2 52.6 33.1 16.0 4.2  4.8  8.0 13.5 25.4  7.7   20.0-41.4 .484 4.4-11.4 .388 8.1-12.3  .658 77.0 7.0
8  Denver	 82 48.5 65.1 34.5 10.4 4.3  3.8  7.8 14.1 24.7  9.8   24.1-51.4 .469 3.8-11.0 .347 13.0-16.9 .769 79.2 4.2
9  Miami	 87 47.9 56.8 32.4 7.9  3.8  5.2  6.5 11.4 25.1  7.3   21.5-44.3 .487 3.7-10.7 .344 10.0-13.8 .726 72.9 4.1
10 New York	 82 47.1 65.6 31.8 9.7  2.7  5.1  8.4 12.2 23.0  8.8   24.5-54.9 .447 3.6-10.9 .334 13.0-16.1 .807 73.1 3.1

The Knicks should improve next year even without any significant changes, but chances are the team makes some upgrades, which should help the bigs to be even more productive.

Yeah, the stats have a strange way of downplaying our team.
I don't understand what you're showing in the table. What exactly is it that our front-court ranks tenth in?

I think that we are ranked 10th in the "NO" stat (column 1). Don't know what the eff that stat means though ...

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:This wouldn't be a top 4 front court unless KP becomes a superstar in year 2. Off the top of my head, any frontcourt with Lebron or Durant or Leonard or a few other top players is already better. Statistically, I'm going to guess this is more like a top 12 frontcourt.

I'm not sure you're right statistically.

If you averaged the PERs for the frontcourt rotation (five players) on every team,
I think you'd find my proposed Knicks frontcourt to be among top four.

I'm too lazy to do it . . . but I'd be very surprised if that's not true.

Remember: Anthony is 20.4, Gasol is 21.8, and the other 3 (Williams,
Porzingis, Lopez) are all near 18.0 . . .

The stats comunity doesn't really respect PER much. That said, I don't think it changes things that much. Remember the average NBA player has a PER of 15. That means the average NBA STARTER is going to be significantly higher than 15. In his book, Hollinger (the person who developed PER) came up with labels for different PER levels (like 30.0 = MVP level player). He has 22.5 as "all-star." So that means using his system we'd have zero all-stars.

Nice way to downplay the Knicks Frontcourt. I don't know about were the Knicks would be hypothetically after adding Pau but this last season they were already up pretty high and that to me is not the ceiling for this frontcourt at all.

 
NBA Frontcourt Stats | Overall Stats	                            
No Team	         G  Min  Pts  Reb  Ast  Stl  Blk  To  Pf   Dreb  Oreb  Fgm-a     Pct  3gm-a    Pct  Ftm-a     Pct  Eff  Deff
1  San Antonio	 86 47.4 65.5 32.5 11.9 4.7  4.9  7.1 10.7 24.9  7.6   25.7-50.2 .512 2.5-6.4  .397 11.6-14.3 .810 85.2 22.5
2  Oklahoma City 87 48.3 65.7 34.7 7.7  3.3  4.9  8.2 13.4 24.5  10.1  25.1-48.9 .512 3.9-11.1 .356 11.7-15.0 .778 80.8 13.8
3  Cleveland	 86 48.3 63.5 34.9 11.6 3.7  3.0  7.7 12.2 26.1  8.8   23.5-48.6 .484 4.9-14.3 .345 11.5-15.8 .728 79.8 13.5
4  Atlanta	 88 48.9 61.4 31.8 11.8 5.6  5.1  7.5 12.0 24.6  7.2   23.6-49.5 .477 5.1-14.7 .345 9.1-12.0  .756 79.4 7.7
5  Indiana	 87 48.6 64.5 33.0 9.8  4.9  3.9  8.6 13.8 24.5  8.5   24.1-51.6 .466 4.5-12.3 .364 11.9-15.6 .760 76.2 7.5
6  Utah	         82 49.0 57.7 33.0 9.3  4.7  4.6  8.3 12.4 23.8  9.2   21.4-45.4 .471 3.5-10.0 .353 11.4-15.9 .719 72.5 7.2
7  Golden State	 87 47.2 52.6 33.1 16.0 4.2  4.8  8.0 13.5 25.4  7.7   20.0-41.4 .484 4.4-11.4 .388 8.1-12.3  .658 77.0 7.0
8  Denver	 82 48.5 65.1 34.5 10.4 4.3  3.8  7.8 14.1 24.7  9.8   24.1-51.4 .469 3.8-11.0 .347 13.0-16.9 .769 79.2 4.2
9  Miami	 87 47.9 56.8 32.4 7.9  3.8  5.2  6.5 11.4 25.1  7.3   21.5-44.3 .487 3.7-10.7 .344 10.0-13.8 .726 72.9 4.1
10 New York	 82 47.1 65.6 31.8 9.7  2.7  5.1  8.4 12.2 23.0  8.8   24.5-54.9 .447 3.6-10.9 .334 13.0-16.1 .807 73.1 3.1

The Knicks should improve next year even without any significant changes, but chances are the team makes some upgrades, which should help the bigs to be even more productive.

Yeah, the stats have a strange way of downplaying our team.
I don't understand what you're showing in the table. What exactly is it that our front-court ranks tenth in?

I think that we are ranked 10th in the "NO" stat (column 1). Don't know what the eff that stat means though ...

Offensive efficiency probably since its before defensive effciency. I believe this list is the top ten of DEff for front courts if I piece together the list and past convos.

If that is right I would like to see a top 15-20 list to see how close the knicks where to those teams compared to the top teams. When you are at 3.1 and the top 3 teams are in double digits there might be a problem.