Knicks · NOBODY BUT PHIL HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT A HIGH LEVEL OF RUNNING THE TRIANGLE!!! (page 1)

He has taken the concepts from his mentor Red Holzman and fused it with the triangle.
If your a knick fan, how do you not root for this to work? Red Freaking Holzman people!!!!
This is the man who got Clyde and Monroe to play for the greater good. The guy that figured out Bill Bradley who was not doing well a the 2.

Loser mentality is to not try to install the triangle because its hard. Fans critical of it because "You need stars" to make it work. Yes, all good teams needed talent.
Take away the Triangle, you still need talent!
Winner mentality is "I want to win and would embrace the challenge of the triangle and elevate to make it work!!!"
Does Vogel or Blatt see it as their boss being problematic, or do they see that "I will succeed where others have failed"? Do they want the challenge?
Or "Others could not do it because they did not have ownerships full support and patience to see a rebuild thru".
and "Phuch the media inducing the fans into ignorant rants!
Im fine with Rambis and Im fine with whom ever PHil wants. Im not fine with dumb ass media snipping away at making fans angry with ignorance.
Im loving that Phil is doing things on his own terms. A successful man has his methods even if its not coaching.
If this does not work, Im fine with the concept and the effort to build a culture. We can always go back to starphuching.
Until then, Im fine with what we are doing. This is fun.

Absolutely

Perhaps a better expression is that other highly successful teams have actually applied Triangle as part of their means of winning. Phil did have an impact on other teams in the league but teams that run Triangle stuff don't advertise it and no one has run the full Triangle offense. Heck even the Knicks haven't run the full Triangle offense! LOL.

My take is that basing his team building on the needs of the Triangle has actually helped Phil a great deal. Some impatient people will look at the record as if that's the most important thing, when in fact it's not at this early stage. Sure 17-65 looks awful and 32-50 isn't very impressive, but he was able to solidify the Frontcourt and now he can focus on the Backcourt that he needs to make it all work. From this point we are much further along in the process of rebuilding this team than some are willing to accept.

Think of it this way. Most of the players on this team are NEW. Most with only ONE season here a few here for about a season and a half. So what are the critics actually complaining about? The fact that this team failed to win in SEASON ONE of this rebuild is a fair critique but it's also no reason to panic. This is just the beginning of the process and there will be even more new players added.

Knicks here for a season and a half or less:
NO.	NAME	                POS	AGE	HT	WT	2015-2016 SALARY
6	Kristaps Porzingis	PF	20	7-3	240	$4,131,720
13	Jerian Grant	        PG	23	6-4	195	$1,572,360
5	Tony Wroten	        SG	23	6-6	205	$167,406
2	Langston Galloway	SG	24	6-2	200	$845,059
23	Derrick Williams	PF	24	6-8	240	$4,000,000
11	Cleanthony Early	SF	25	6-8	210	$845,059
9	Kyle O'Quinn	        PF	26	6-10	250	$3,750,000
1	Kevin Seraphin	        C	26	6-10	278	$2,814,000
8	Robin Lopez	        C	28	7-0	255	$12,650,000
42	Lance Thomas	        SF	28	6-8	235	$1,636,842
4	Arron Afflalo	        SG	30	6-5	210	$8,000,000
7	Carmelo Anthony	        SF	31	6-8	240	$22,875,000
18	Sasha Vujacic	        SG	32	6-7	195	$947,276
17	Lou Amundson	        PF	33	6-9	220	$1,635,476
3	Jose Calderon	        PG	34	6-3	200	$7,402,812

This was funny:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/5...

Nalod wrote:This was funny:

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/5...

Yes! ALL PICKS DAY!!! Let us all rejoice in the end of our long frustration with not having our 1st round picks.

Basketball is basketball. There's only so many ways to play. Everyone shares the same concepts. Every coach is different in philosophy. People are running triangle sets and don't even know it. Proper spacing is going to create angles.... angles? Aka triangle... come on man. It's something us as a fan base has got to get over talking about. We need to increase the talent. We missed the playoffs because of the personnel not the system.

EnySpree wrote:Basketball is basketball. There's only so many ways to play. Everyone shares the same concepts. Every coach is different in philosophy. People are running triangle sets and don't even know it. Proper spacing is going to create angles.... angles? Aka triangle... come on man. It's something us as a fan base has got to get over talking about. We need to increase the talent. We missed the playoffs because of the personnel not the system.

YUP! THE MOST important factor in winning is the Talent you have. Everything else is secondary to the Talent. At some point this will sink in with some people. Imagine we had Curry or Lebron does anyone think it would matter if we ran Triangle or Chicken Wing?

isn't the thread title the exact reason we shouldn't be trying to run the triangle? Its maybe like asking my kids to grow up and be like Einstein. They're going to be miserable.

franco12 wrote:isn't the thread title the exact reason we shouldn't be trying to run the triangle? Its maybe like asking my kids to grow up and be like Einstein. They're going to be miserable.

franco12 wrote:isn't the thread title the exact reason we shouldn't be trying to run the triangle? Its maybe like asking my kids to grow up and be like Einstein. They're going to be miserable.

The man who succeeded is the man attempting to orchestrate the construction of a culture that promotes the development of players to execute the Triangle and its variations of the theme. Start from the top and work thru to the players.

Who has done that? Lets even go further and say the most successful team in professional sports did this in some form. The spurs know what they are and what they are trying to do. GSW did this and its how it got its players. How many years did that take? I think ownership took over in 2010. They had some decent assets already in place (like draft picks, some players, etc)and took 5 years until its first title in this era. SAS exercises patience in many forms with its draft picks and player development.

Two years into this era and we are handicapped by not having a draft pick this year. Year one was a tear down and year two the first phase. WE started with little as we the Melo trade depleted assets, and a lack of draft picks for years also handicapped us. Eddy cost us two high no. 1 picks. They could have been used not just on productive players, but play them, then make trades as well. This is why we are sad, not just Phil botching one coaching move or not able to rape teams for the Tyson/Felton deal.

I think Phil has had success with it because of his people skills and getting individuals to sacrifice personal satisifaction for the common good. I think the system itself might need an update. If you ran cover 2 in the NFL 15 or 20 years ago, you probably had one of the best defenses in football. Now? You would get crushed. What I do like about the triangle though is it uses players that are multifaceted and I think more NBA prospects have a greater skillset now. I think the triangle is a perfect place for guys that can do a bit of everything.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:isn't the thread title the exact reason we shouldn't be trying to run the triangle? Its maybe like asking my kids to grow up and be like Einstein. They're going to be miserable.

Gary Larson, oh man, miss his stuff

SupremeCommander wrote:I think Phil has had success with it because of his people skills and getting individuals to sacrifice personal satisifaction for the common good. I think the system itself might need an update. If you ran cover 2 in the NFL 15 or 20 years ago, you probably had one of the best defenses in football. Now? You would get crushed. What I do like about the triangle though is it uses players that are multifaceted and I think more NBA prospects have a greater skillset now. I think the triangle is a perfect place for guys that can do a bit of everything.

I never understood the line of thinking that Phil and/of the Triangle implementation wouldn't be able to adjust to either the NBA as a whole or players on a team in particular.

It was run over 2 decades using all sorts of different players. First it was Thug ball against Detroit. Kobe and Pau and Bynum lead the march 5 years ago in a very different era that what the Triangle first saw.

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I think Phil has had success with it because of his people skills and getting individuals to sacrifice personal satisifaction for the common good. I think the system itself might need an update. If you ran cover 2 in the NFL 15 or 20 years ago, you probably had one of the best defenses in football. Now? You would get crushed. What I do like about the triangle though is it uses players that are multifaceted and I think more NBA prospects have a greater skillset now. I think the triangle is a perfect place for guys that can do a bit of everything.

I never understood the line of thinking that Phil and/of the Triangle implementation wouldn't be able to adjust to either the NBA as a whole or players on a team in particular.

It was run over 2 decades using all sorts of different players. First it was Thug ball against Detroit. Kobe and Pau and Bynum lead the march 5 years ago in a very different era that what the Triangle first saw.

I'm basing this off of player commentary. Truthfully, it seems like a lot of players are scared of it. The triangle is vastly different than what most players have experienced. The NBA is shifting towards "efficient three pointers" and away from "mid range jumpshots." I think they can adapt it to the times and hell it already seems as though they are. I am fascinated by the triangle and am glad it is here. That said, it's reputation is one of an antiquated system and I think perception matters

KP might change the game. Phil did not cook him up in a lab, he drafted him and will make best use of his skills as would any team.

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I think Phil has had success with it because of his people skills and getting individuals to sacrifice personal satisifaction for the common good. I think the system itself might need an update. If you ran cover 2 in the NFL 15 or 20 years ago, you probably had one of the best defenses in football. Now? You would get crushed. What I do like about the triangle though is it uses players that are multifaceted and I think more NBA prospects have a greater skillset now. I think the triangle is a perfect place for guys that can do a bit of everything.

I never understood the line of thinking that Phil and/of the Triangle implementation wouldn't be able to adjust to either the NBA as a whole or players on a team in particular.

It was run over 2 decades using all sorts of different players. First it was Thug ball against Detroit. Kobe and Pau and Bynum lead the march 5 years ago in a very different era that what the Triangle first saw.

If this is a system that gets all 5 guys involved, why did MJ and KObe avg roughly 32 shots per game, and why did they lean on them so much.

Give me 2 players not name MJ or Kobe, that ran more ISO's. I'll never forget one of phils reason for chasing melo, was that the system would not work with out a top scorer, a guy that they can lean on when things get stale, which we seen all to often down the stretch in the 4th qtr.

The triangle is a great offense when you have top flight high IQ players, if those cuts are sharp, and the ball handler is on point, it's defenseless. If you have sub par players that don't react quick enough, don't cut fast enough, it's one of the worse systems on the plane, it's super predictable and slower then a turtles crawl..

why run it if you don't have what it takes to run it, just for he sake of running it.

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I think Phil has had success with it because of his people skills and getting individuals to sacrifice personal satisifaction for the common good. I think the system itself might need an update. If you ran cover 2 in the NFL 15 or 20 years ago, you probably had one of the best defenses in football. Now? You would get crushed. What I do like about the triangle though is it uses players that are multifaceted and I think more NBA prospects have a greater skillset now. I think the triangle is a perfect place for guys that can do a bit of everything.

I never understood the line of thinking that Phil and/of the Triangle implementation wouldn't be able to adjust to either the NBA as a whole or players on a team in particular.

It was run over 2 decades using all sorts of different players. First it was Thug ball against Detroit. Kobe and Pau and Bynum lead the march 5 years ago in a very different era that what the Triangle first saw.

If this is a system that gets all 5 guys involved, why did MJ and KObe avg roughly 32 shots per game, and why did they lean on them so much.

Give me 2 players not name MJ or Kobe, that ran more ISO's. I'll never forget one of phils reason for chasing melo, was that the system would not work with out a top scorer, a guy that they can lean on when things get stale, which we seen all to often down the stretch in the 4th qtr.

The triangle is a great offense when you have top flight high IQ players, if those cuts are sharp, and the ball handler is on point, it's defenseless. If you have sub par players that don't react quick enough, don't cut fast enough, it's one of the worse systems on the plane, it's super predictable and slower then a turtles crawl..

why run it if you don't have what it takes to run it, just for he sake of running it.

I know right, why run any system, especially when you don't have talent to win? Just do street ball

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I think Phil has had success with it because of his people skills and getting individuals to sacrifice personal satisifaction for the common good. I think the system itself might need an update. If you ran cover 2 in the NFL 15 or 20 years ago, you probably had one of the best defenses in football. Now? You would get crushed. What I do like about the triangle though is it uses players that are multifaceted and I think more NBA prospects have a greater skillset now. I think the triangle is a perfect place for guys that can do a bit of everything.

I never understood the line of thinking that Phil and/of the Triangle implementation wouldn't be able to adjust to either the NBA as a whole or players on a team in particular.

It was run over 2 decades using all sorts of different players. First it was Thug ball against Detroit. Kobe and Pau and Bynum lead the march 5 years ago in a very different era that what the Triangle first saw.

If this is a system that gets all 5 guys involved, why did MJ and KObe avg roughly 32 shots per game, and why did they lean on them so much.

Give me 2 players not name MJ or Kobe, that ran more ISO's. I'll never forget one of phils reason for chasing melo, was that the system would not work with out a top scorer, a guy that they can lean on when things get stale, which we seen all to often down the stretch in the 4th qtr.

The triangle is a great offense when you have top flight high IQ players, if those cuts are sharp, and the ball handler is on point, it's defenseless. If you have sub par players that don't react quick enough, don't cut fast enough, it's one of the worse systems on the plane, it's super predictable and slower then a turtles crawl..

why run it if you don't have what it takes to run it, just for he sake of running it.

As there has never been an NBA team that wins with subpar players why are nitpicking about the system? Would you feel better winning 32 games if we ran the P&R 80 times?

You said it yourself, it cant be defended. Its the system we run. Its the system (various flavors) that won 11 titles.

SupremeCommander wrote:I'm basing this off of player commentary. Truthfully, it seems like a lot of players are scared of it.
The triangle is vastly different than what most players have experienced.

"Vastly" is SUCH an understatement.

That's why, on balance, I'm for keeping Rambis.

We gotta go for Triangle-24/7 . . . until that light bulb starts to go on
over each individual player's head (like it did with Jordan, Kobe, Kerr,
Rodman, Gasol, Odom . . . etc)

I think we're getting there (something is definitely happening with
Carmelo Anthony) . . . but it's still not ANYTHING like what's possible
and necessary.

The players are still VASTLY underestimating what it takes . . . and
how AWESOME the results can be (!)

Nalod wrote:Until then, Im fine with what we are doing. This is fun.

Absolutely.