Knicks · how about Rolo for pick#3 (page 2)

While I think Rolo's contract makes him more valuable as the cap increases, the rookie scale contract is not tied to the salary cap making them much more valuable. Boston will fill a starting role for $3.8mm and still have cap space to build. I don't trade that upside AND use $10mm of cap space to get a solid center. Just draft Bender.

I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

I want to keep Rolo, he may yet yield better value later on. This year team's have too much cap space, let them overpay for the garbage of their choice, then wait for cap space to become a more valuable commodity. Rolo's value will skyrocket - he needs to keep having solid output though.

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

Rolo's a nice player but I would not call this a fantastic contract. He's paid roughly what he's worth. It's an adequate contract (maybe a B-). Only players on rookie contracts and a very small percentage of veterans have fantastic A or A+ contracts.

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

Don't take anything I say as a knock on Rolo. I think he is the cult type player that could really make an impact on either NY or Boston. Like a JYD or Scalabrine. Lunch pail type player. 1st red picks are more valuable this year than last and will be even more valuable next year. To give that up AND to give up $10m more cap space doesn't make a ton of sense to me for Boston.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

Rolo's a nice player but I would not call this a fantastic contract. He's paid roughly what he's worth. It's an adequate contract (maybe a B-). Only players on rookie contracts and a very small percentage of veterans have fantastic A or A+ contracts.

This is probably a better way of saying what I am thinking.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

Rolo's a nice player but I would not call this a fantastic contract. He's paid roughly what he's worth. It's an adequate contract (maybe a B-). Only players on rookie contracts and a very small percentage of veterans have fantastic A or A+ contracts.

This is probably a better way of saying what I am thinking.

What is Boston's cap? Can they land Horford or another good big? To be fair Im not sure who is out there. In a vacuum Rolo has great value to them. The contract is good, but think about our own FA debates... the money to get FAs to come is sickening. So Rolo's got 3 years of really good production/contract ratio, which in this market is REALLY hard to find! Shump! Carroll! I know how important Reggie Jackson is for Det but he's a max player?? He's like Jeff McCinnis on roids.

Anywho watch... Boston will package picks for proven commodities in the frontcourt. Don't be surprised to see them send all 3 #1s for Cousins or Griffin or whatever big fish could be had. Hell maybe Dwight signs there

I was thinking Lopez for Klay Thompson

no, it's not happening. stop wasting your time entertaining that

EwingsGlass wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

Rolo's a nice player but I would not call this a fantastic contract. He's paid roughly what he's worth. It's an adequate contract (maybe a B-). Only players on rookie contracts and a very small percentage of veterans have fantastic A or A+ contracts.

This is probably a better way of saying what I am thinking.

I was even at first going to give it more like a C. You have to remember the best teams are actually not paying players what they're worth. They have most of their players on bargain contracts. If you're paying a guy exactly what he's worth, that's like paying $500,000 for a $500,000 house. You didn't get a great deal even if the house is nice.
From what I've looked at this summer, I think KD is the only FA worth the max and Whiteside is the only additional one worth near the max (though I'm not sure about him actually). I'm assuming Lebron re-signs with Cleveland. After that, I think a team will get more value from bargain contracts given to strong role players.

EwingsGlass wrote:While I think Rolo's contract makes him more valuable as the cap increases, the rookie scale contract is not tied to the salary cap making them much more valuable. Boston will fill a starting role for $3.8mm and still have cap space to build. I don't trade that upside AND use $10mm of cap space to get a solid center. Just draft Bender.

You don't trade that controlled contract for Rolo, thats crazy

Jmpasq wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:While I think Rolo's contract makes him more valuable as the cap increases, the rookie scale contract is not tied to the salary cap making them much more valuable. Boston will fill a starting role for $3.8mm and still have cap space to build. I don't trade that upside AND use $10mm of cap space to get a solid center. Just draft Bender.

You don't trade that controlled contract for Rolo, thats crazy

The Celtic s would put the phone down in record speed

BRIGGS wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:While I think Rolo's contract makes him more valuable as the cap increases, the rookie scale contract is not tied to the salary cap making them much more valuable. Boston will fill a starting role for $3.8mm and still have cap space to build. I don't trade that upside AND use $10mm of cap space to get a solid center. Just draft Bender.

You don't trade that controlled contract for Rolo, thats crazy

The Celtic s would put the phone down in record speed

Exactly.

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

I think picks 16 and 23 (with recent draft picks like Terry Rozier and James Young being included) are possible for Rolo. The Celtics will need to offload and/or consolidate their cache of draft picks/young players in order to receive any utility, since they already have a very solid 15 man roster. Trading Rolo for 3, is a bit of stretch IMO though but would do it yesterday if it were possible.

With the 16th pick, I'd probably look to target either Skal Labesserie or Thon Maker. Both will likely rise well above this range, however, so I'd look at opportunities to consolidate value with pick 23 and cash to move up. If it is not possible, I'd look to trade down to select Denzel Valentine and reclaim additional assets....but he might actually play himself into the 16th pick when it is all said and done.

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

I think picks 16 and 23 (with recent draft picks like Terry Rozier and James Young being included) are possible for Rolo. The Celtics will need to offload and/or consolidate their cache of draft picks/young players in order to receive any utility, since they already have a very solid 15 man roster. Trading Rolo for 3, is a bit of stretch IMO though but would do it yesterday if it were possible.

With the 16th pick, I'd probably look to target either Skal Labesserie or Thon Maker. Both will likely rise well above this range, however, so I'd look at opportunities to consolidate value with pick 23 and cash to move up. If it is not possible, I'd look to trade down to select Denzel Valentine and reclaim additional assets....but he might actually play himself into the 16th pick when it is all said and done.

My gut feeling is pick 3 is too high, but 16+23 isn't enough. Too big a step back for us if we don't get a higher end prospect back. If this was last years draft than yea... pick 3 has zero chance. This is more like the Duncan draft.

I'd take Hield over everyone but Ingram and Simmons. I love his intensity and the way he shaped his game. If we can't trade Rolo for the third and Hield falls past 3, we should keep trying to trade Rolo for any pick that brings Hield.

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

I think picks 16 and 23 (with recent draft picks like Terry Rozier and James Young being included) are possible for Rolo. The Celtics will need to offload and/or consolidate their cache of draft picks/young players in order to receive any utility, since they already have a very solid 15 man roster. Trading Rolo for 3, is a bit of stretch IMO though but would do it yesterday if it were possible.

With the 16th pick, I'd probably look to target either Skal Labesserie or Thon Maker. Both will likely rise well above this range, however, so I'd look at opportunities to consolidate value with pick 23 and cash to move up. If it is not possible, I'd look to trade down to select Denzel Valentine and reclaim additional assets....but he might actually play himself into the 16th pick when it is all said and done.

My gut feeling is pick 3 is too high, but 16+23 isn't enough. Too big a step back for us if we don't get a higher end prospect back. If this was last years draft than yea... pick 3 has zero chance. This is more like the Duncan draft.

Even if we take back an Amir Johnson to act as a stopgap at the 5?

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

I think picks 16 and 23 (with recent draft picks like Terry Rozier and James Young being included) are possible for Rolo. The Celtics will need to offload and/or consolidate their cache of draft picks/young players in order to receive any utility, since they already have a very solid 15 man roster. Trading Rolo for 3, is a bit of stretch IMO though but would do it yesterday if it were possible.

With the 16th pick, I'd probably look to target either Skal Labesserie or Thon Maker. Both will likely rise well above this range, however, so I'd look at opportunities to consolidate value with pick 23 and cash to move up. If it is not possible, I'd look to trade down to select Denzel Valentine and reclaim additional assets....but he might actually play himself into the 16th pick when it is all said and done.

My gut feeling is pick 3 is too high, but 16+23 isn't enough. Too big a step back for us if we don't get a higher end prospect back. If this was last years draft than yea... pick 3 has zero chance. This is more like the Duncan draft.

Even if we take back an Amir Johnson to act as a stopgap at the 5?

Sure... for the 3 pick? He's got 1 year and $12mm left. I would def take him. That's a flippable contract for sure. Worst case is its a year. Mt goal is to get another long term piece in place next to KP. Pick 3 is pretty ambitious. Buddy can help any NBA team pretty quickly I would think

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

I think picks 16 and 23 (with recent draft picks like Terry Rozier and James Young being included) are possible for Rolo. The Celtics will need to offload and/or consolidate their cache of draft picks/young players in order to receive any utility, since they already have a very solid 15 man roster. Trading Rolo for 3, is a bit of stretch IMO though but would do it yesterday if it were possible.

With the 16th pick, I'd probably look to target either Skal Labesserie or Thon Maker. Both will likely rise well above this range, however, so I'd look at opportunities to consolidate value with pick 23 and cash to move up. If it is not possible, I'd look to trade down to select Denzel Valentine and reclaim additional assets....but he might actually play himself into the 16th pick when it is all said and done.

My gut feeling is pick 3 is too high, but 16+23 isn't enough. Too big a step back for us if we don't get a higher end prospect back. If this was last years draft than yea... pick 3 has zero chance. This is more like the Duncan draft.

Even if we take back an Amir Johnson to act as a stopgap at the 5?

Sure... for the 3 pick? He's got 1 year and $12mm left. I would def take him. That's a flippable contract for sure. Worst case is its a year. Mt goal is to get another long term piece in place next to KP. Pick 3 is pretty ambitious. Buddy can help any NBA team pretty quickly I would think

No, I was referencing Robin Lopez and cash for Amir Johnson as well as picks 16 and 23. My thinking is that we all expect Willy Hernangomez to inevitably be our starter at 5 in the future but we all know that it will not happen this season. Johnson offers a nice stopgap until Willy can grow into his own and assume the reigns, while allowing us to be competitive at that position in the interim.

At 16 and 23, I'd look to wrangle Denzel Valentine and Thon Maker. It'd be pretty ambitious but if we could pull it off, we'd have one of the most intriguing young cores in the league.

EDIT: Given BOSs penchant for trying to overpay with draft picks, I'd push for two 2nd round picks in this draft as well: no.31 and no.45. At no.31, I'd select Caris Levert and at no.45, Danilo Fuzaro (if he's still available for this draft).

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't disagree about the comments on Rolo's worth. 8-15 range seems more plausible sure. I mentioned #3 for a few reasons.
1) Its a sell high. 28 years old, 3 years left on what is a fantastic contract in the new cap
2) Rolo is polished NBA P&R center and rim protector. Certainly Bender has more upside but we have seen better looking prospects totally bust, and he doesn't help Boston now.
3) He's a perfect fit for Boston, their current roster and everything they need

I think picks 16 and 23 (with recent draft picks like Terry Rozier and James Young being included) are possible for Rolo. The Celtics will need to offload and/or consolidate their cache of draft picks/young players in order to receive any utility, since they already have a very solid 15 man roster. Trading Rolo for 3, is a bit of stretch IMO though but would do it yesterday if it were possible.

With the 16th pick, I'd probably look to target either Skal Labesserie or Thon Maker. Both will likely rise well above this range, however, so I'd look at opportunities to consolidate value with pick 23 and cash to move up. If it is not possible, I'd look to trade down to select Denzel Valentine and reclaim additional assets....but he might actually play himself into the 16th pick when it is all said and done.

My gut feeling is pick 3 is too high, but 16+23 isn't enough. Too big a step back for us if we don't get a higher end prospect back. If this was last years draft than yea... pick 3 has zero chance. This is more like the Duncan draft.

Even if we take back an Amir Johnson to act as a stopgap at the 5?

Sure... for the 3 pick? He's got 1 year and $12mm left. I would def take him. That's a flippable contract for sure. Worst case is its a year. Mt goal is to get another long term piece in place next to KP. Pick 3 is pretty ambitious. Buddy can help any NBA team pretty quickly I would think

No, I was referencing Robin Lopez and cash for Amir Johnson as well as picks 16 and 23. My thinking is that we all expect Willy Hernangomez to inevitably be our starter at 5 in the future but we all know that it will not happen this season. Johnson offers a nice stopgap until Willy can grow into his own and assume the reigns, while allowing us to be competitive at that position in the interim.

At 16 and 23, I'd look to wrangle Denzel Valentine and Thon Maker. It'd be pretty ambitious but if we could pull it off, we'd have one of the most intriguing young cores in the league.

tough one. Your thought process has merit. I would really like to see KP/Rolo together with some better guards. The Knicks rim defense was excellent last year. Tough call man. I don't have the tightest handle on this draft. I would be open for sure. You have to figure they like the prospects enough to make a move like that so on that alone I would be pretty excited. Def a shortterm step back though

Just curious, does the choice of Hornacek as coach spell bad things for Rolo?