callmened wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:bazemore, jennings, crabbe, turner etc...these are all stop gap mediocre role players. i keep saying build thru the draft. hinkie was onto something but he was too deliberate and Arrogant about it. instead of winning 10 games a yr, knicks should lease shooting guards who cant shoot like turner and win 25-30 games a yr. get as any draft picks as u can and hopefully one becomes a star...like kp. build a nice young foundation and then instead of debating about which mediocre free agent will come, the discussion then becomes which begging all star do we choose from.
I love these posts where someone bashes yet has no plan. Yep we know Lebron James isn't coming here neither is Westbrook.
wheres my "no plan"? im saying build thru the draft and keep leasing short contract rentals for mediocre players. that way its more of a pseudo tank not a REAL tank. build a young foundation via draft picks. once thats done then all stars will beg to join the team
It's great to say we should build through the draft but i think Phil is ready to take the next step and get a legit guard in here this off season whether that be a PG or SG or maybe both and we can add to that with draft picks since we finally have all of our 1st round picks after this year. He's obviously gonna try to buy/trade for a late 1st or 2nd rounder this year and maybe he'll get two but he's not gonna do what Briggs is saying and buy/trade for 3. The only way he goes to building through the draft is if Melo waives his NTC and is traded but Melo is saying that won't happen so we have 3 really good pieces in our front court to add to with back court help and now that we have Hornacek i think the back court will be the main focus which just having Hornacek as our coach is gonna help big time with free agent guards and i wouldn't doubt if Rondo signs with us.
http://www.chatsports.com/new-york-knick...
newyorker4ever wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Chandler wrote:^^ so why are you throwing 90 million of Dolan's money at Seth and Crabbe, both second rounders? Why not just pick version 2.0 of same and pay them 500k like Josh Richardson in Miami?notice that SAS and Miami picked those guys -- didn't buy them for gobs of money
If a guy like Josh Richardson(whom I liked before last years draft) goes on to play at the level he is when his contract runs out next year--he'll get his too. If you play well in the NBA and your re a young free agent on top of it--you're getting paid.
The guys I mentioned Gbinjie Maker Forbes Jones jr I personally have them all as top 25 picks. Its all in the beauty of the beholder.
You forgot to answer his question which was if we can build with some 2nd round picks then why spend $90 mil on Curry and Crabbe??
Crabbe has already done 3 years in the nba avg double digits and excelled in the playoffs2nd round picks are developmental players
Smart kid?
The guy has talent, but make no mistakes he is as dumb as a brick. Are we talking about a different Jennings or the Jennings that had a wide open layup, dribbled it out only to brick a long two?
I understand that you want to take the "flip the coin" path considering the significant improvement that Bledsoe and Dragic saw in their shooting numbers under Jeff, but his poor IQ is remains quite prevalent.
I don't want to see Bazemore anywhere near this team when we can just resign Early or acquire a late 2nd rounder( Melo Trimble/ Gbinje fingers crossed). Definitely not worth 8 million.
TPercy wrote:Smart kid?
The guy has talent, but make no mistakes he is as dumb as a brick. Are we talking about a different Jennings or the Jennings that had a wide open layup, dribbled it out only to brick a long two? I understand that you want to take the "flip the coin" path considering the significant improvement that Bledsoe and Dragic saw in their shooting numbers under Jeff, but his poor IQ is remains quite prevalent.
I don't want to see Bazemore anywhere near this team when we can just resign Early or acquire a late 2nd rounder( Melo Trimble/ Gbinje fingers crossed). Definitely not worth 8 million.
So you're basing Jennings' intelligence on one play? That seems fair.
Check out this interview from 2015 in Detroit - he's matured a lot. He came into the NBA at age 19. He's grown a lot since then. I think he's ready to make a big leap in the right situation.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv...
Check out this run of games Jennings had at the point for Detroit before getting injured in early 2015. SVG was devastated when Jennings went down.
He was 25 then- He's 26 years old now.
In the right situation, he can be an excellent PG.
Hornacek knows how to coach PG's - he had Dragic, another speedy lefty PG, playing great ball - 20ppg 52% fg percentage - Dragic was at 44% previous year.
date opponent min fg-fga fg% 3pt 3pt% ft ft% reb ast blk stl t/o pf points
Wed 1/21 vsORL W 128-118 33 10-21 .476 1-6 .167 3-5 .600 0 21 0 0 1 2 24
Mon 1/19 @ ATL L 82-93 30 1-10 .100 0-4 .000 5-6 .833 2 5 0 1 2 3 7
Sat 1/17 vsPHI W 107-89 22 3-9 .333 2-6 .333 2-2 1.000 1 6 0 1 1 4 10
Fri 1/16 @ IND W 98-96 34 10-23 .435 8-13 .615 9-9 1.000 2 3 0 2 1 2 37
Wed 1/14 vsNO L 94-105 29 4-12 .333 2-6 .333 9-10 .900 0 3 0 1 1 0 19
Mon 1/12 @ TOR W 114-111 34 11-22 .500 4-8 .500 8-9 .889 2 10 0 2 1 2 34
Sat 1/10 vsBKN W 98-93 29 6-17 .353 3-8 .375 5-9 .556 3 11 0 2 2 1 20
Fri 1/9 vsATL L 103-106 28 6-14 .429 2-6 .333 0-0 .000 4 8 0 1 2 1 14
Wed 1/7 @ DAL W 108-95 26 7-18 .389 0-2 .000 0-0 .000 4 6 0 1 0 1 14
Tue 1/6 @ SA W 105-104 29 5-18 .278 1-5 .200 2-2 1.000 1 7 1 1 1 2 13
Sun 1/4 vsSAC W 114-95 31 14-21 .667 5-8 .625 2-2 1.000 2 7 0 2 3 2 35
Fri 1/2 @ NY W 97-81 25 11-17 .647 4-8 .500 3-4 .750 3 3 0 2 1 2 29
crzymdups wrote:Check out this run of games Jennings had at the point for Detroit before getting injured in early 2015. SVG was devastated when Jennings went down. He was 25 then- He's 26 years old now.
In the right situation, he can be an excellent PG.
Hornacek knows how to coach PG's - he had Dragic, another speedy lefty PG, playing great ball - 20ppg 52% fg percentage - Dragic was at 44% previous year.
If SVG loves him so much then I assume that he will give him a competitive offer, no?
Lin makes more sense than Jennings - he's very similar to Dragic (Lin even said this hinself).
Also don't forget about whatever his name was- that euro pg we had last year who went back to Europe this season. Could be a cheap option.
smackeddog wrote:Lin makes more sense than Jennings - he's very similar to Dragic (Lin even said this hinself). Also don't forget about whatever his name was- that euro pg we had last year who went back to Europe this season. Could be a cheap option.
shved.
Dragic is a much better player than Lin. At least PHX Dragic and the Dragic that we saw this postseason.
I kind of see Jennings more like Dragic than Lin though neither is a good comp.
mreinman wrote:smackeddog wrote:Lin makes more sense than Jennings - he's very similar to Dragic (Lin even said this hinself). Also don't forget about whatever his name was- that euro pg we had last year who went back to Europe this season. Could be a cheap option.
shved.
Dragic is a much better player than Lin. At least PHX Dragic and the Dragic that we saw this postseason.
I kind of see Jennings more like Dragic than Lin though neither is a good comp.
Only on a Knicks board will you see the statement that Lin or Shved are better options than Jennings. SMGDH.
crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:smackeddog wrote:Lin makes more sense than Jennings - he's very similar to Dragic (Lin even said this hinself). Also don't forget about whatever his name was- that euro pg we had last year who went back to Europe this season. Could be a cheap option.
shved.
Dragic is a much better player than Lin. At least PHX Dragic and the Dragic that we saw this postseason.
I kind of see Jennings more like Dragic than Lin though neither is a good comp.
Only on a Knicks board will you see the statement that Lin or Shved are better options than Jennings. SMGDH.
IMO - how Lin is better than Jennings is in value - e.g., the contract they may command and then in shooting percentage - I have a hard time signing someone that will possibly shoot alot with a .390 lifetime shooting percentage.
And while we've seen Lin get banged up, he's played a lot more games in the last 2 seasons than Jennings.
Who knows, maybe we can get both? We could sure use both.
crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:smackeddog wrote:Lin makes more sense than Jennings - he's very similar to Dragic (Lin even said this hinself). Also don't forget about whatever his name was- that euro pg we had last year who went back to Europe this season. Could be a cheap option.
shved.
Dragic is a much better player than Lin. At least PHX Dragic and the Dragic that we saw this postseason.
I kind of see Jennings more like Dragic than Lin though neither is a good comp.
Only on a Knicks board will you see the statement that Lin or Shved are better options than Jennings. SMGDH.
You keep ignoring the fact he relies on his athleticism and had a significant injury that no player has fully recovered from
I like Jennings but I don't think I have seen him play in the last 2 years. If you are going to roll the dice the player is Rondo
fishmike wrote:I like Jennings but I don't think I have seen him play in the last 2 years. If you are going to roll the dice the player is Rondo
I agree - I am not a rondo fan but I am curious what Hornacek thinks about him.
Either way, I hope that we can get him for a reasonable contract, e.g. 15 million x 4. He may think that he is worth more but being a notorious dik makes him worth much less.
smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:smackeddog wrote:Lin makes more sense than Jennings - he's very similar to Dragic (Lin even said this hinself). Also don't forget about whatever his name was- that euro pg we had last year who went back to Europe this season. Could be a cheap option.
shved.
Dragic is a much better player than Lin. At least PHX Dragic and the Dragic that we saw this postseason.
I kind of see Jennings more like Dragic than Lin though neither is a good comp.
Only on a Knicks board will you see the statement that Lin or Shved are better options than Jennings. SMGDH.
You keep ignoring the fact he relies on his athleticism and had a significant injury that no player has fully recovered from
That may be fair. He looked like he had his quickness back. I don't think he relies on athleticism, so much as quickness and craftiness. It's not like he's Westbrook out there, dunking on everyone. I've never seen him dunk, I don't think. Quickness is important to his game, for sure, but he is a smart PG. He has handles and uses misdirection and a nice mid-range game. His percentages aren't great, but like I said Dragic's improved a lot under Hornacek - from 44% to over 50% FG%. Dragic's WS/48 went from .108 to .186 under Hornacek. His WS/48 are back down to .096 this year in Miami.
I just think Jennings could do well here. In addition to it being a good fit with the coach, I think you'd see a bump because this is a kid who has been dying to play on the big stage in NY for his whole professional career. He's the kind of guy who WANTS New York. As we've seen, that's rare for a FA. I think he's a guy we could buy low on and get a great reward. That's one of the only ways to win FA - buy low, not buy high.
mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:I like Jennings but I don't think I have seen him play in the last 2 years. If you are going to roll the dice the player is Rondo
I agree - I am not a rondo fan but I am curious what Hornacek thinks about him.
Either way, I hope that we can get him for a reasonable contract, e.g. 15 million x 4. He may think that he is worth more but being a notorious dik makes him worth much less.
Last summer I was super high on trying to buy low on Rondo. I thought he'd have a huge bounce back season and people here told me he sucked and he was done. Now I'm saying Jennings is that guy. Rondo would be my second pick. But you want a guy who can't shoot? It's Rondo. Jennings CAN shoot, he's just streaky and takes bad shots at times. He could improve his FG% with shot selection. Rondo just has a bad shot. And he's over 30 and relies a lot on athleticism. 4 years for Rondo? I'd rather give Jennings 4yr $40M - Jennings wouldn't hit 30 til the last year of that deal. He could be the perfect bridge PG to keep Melo somewhat relevant, but also grow with KP.
But I do like Rondo and he'd be second on my list behind Jennings.
I just think Jennings FEELS like a good fit for this team. I see his personality being perfect for the Garden, KP, and Melo.
fishmike wrote:I like Jennings but I don't think I have seen him play in the last 2 years. If you are going to roll the dice the player is Rondo
there is something to be said for this. I personally wouldn't touch him. A bit of a prima donna (on his good days 
) but there's no denying the talent. He can play 48 minutes if you needed it and fairly durable despite being rail thin.
If you wanted to be a horse whisperer (ala Dennis Rodman)this would be my pick.
crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:I like Jennings but I don't think I have seen him play in the last 2 years. If you are going to roll the dice the player is Rondo
I agree - I am not a rondo fan but I am curious what Hornacek thinks about him.
Either way, I hope that we can get him for a reasonable contract, e.g. 15 million x 4. He may think that he is worth more but being a notorious dik makes him worth much less.
Last summer I was super high on trying to buy low on Rondo. I thought he'd have a huge bounce back season and people here told me he sucked and he was done. Now I'm saying Jennings is that guy. Rondo would be my second pick. But you want a guy who can't shoot? It's Rondo. Jennings CAN shoot, he's just streaky and takes bad shots at times. He could improve his FG% with shot selection. Rondo just has a bad shot. And he's over 30 and relies a lot on athleticism. 4 years for Rondo? I'd rather give Jennings 4yr $40M - Jennings wouldn't hit 30 til the last year of that deal. He could be the perfect bridge PG to keep Melo somewhat relevant, but also grow with KP.
But I do like Rondo and he'd be second on my list behind Jennings.
I just think Jennings FEELS like a good fit for this team. I see his personality being perfect for the Garden, KP, and Melo.
streaky shooters shouldn't get lots of money; they should be 6th or 7th men that perhaps you call on when youre desperate for buckets.
did people really say Rondo sucked? Cuckoo-bird, yes; loose canon, check; but sucks, no
newyorker4ever wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Chandler wrote:^^ so why are you throwing 90 million of Dolan's money at Seth and Crabbe, both second rounders? Why not just pick version 2.0 of same and pay them 500k like Josh Richardson in Miami?notice that SAS and Miami picked those guys -- didn't buy them for gobs of money
If a guy like Josh Richardson(whom I liked before last years draft) goes on to play at the level he is when his contract runs out next year--he'll get his too. If you play well in the NBA and your re a young free agent on top of it--you're getting paid.
The guys I mentioned Gbinjie Maker Forbes Jones jr I personally have them all as top 25 picks. Its all in the beauty of the beholder.
You forgot to answer his question which was if we can build with some 2nd round picks then why spend $90 mil on Curry and Crabbe??
I don't think he forgot; there's just not a logical answer. The only way FA will fundamentally change a franchise is if you lure a superstar. After that, it's fine-tuning a roster as you're not getting great bargains (if you could get Durant or James or Curry they're a bargain even at the max because of their impact)
Briggs wants to throw tons of money at guys to get market value or worse over-pay (because it feels like you're doing something good).
The players he identifies shows you'd be much wiser to invest a fraction of those salaries into better scouting and player development so you can get value.
I hate Miami but you have to tip your cap to them. On their current roster they have Whiteside, Josh Richardson, and Tyler any of whom any team could have had -- some had multiple opportunities. They found these guys and are paying them peanuts compared to their contribution
Riley used to do it for the KNicks too -- Starks Mason sure I'm forgetting many others
We need to get back to finding and developing players -- not buying them.
Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:I like Jennings but I don't think I have seen him play in the last 2 years. If you are going to roll the dice the player is Rondo
I agree - I am not a rondo fan but I am curious what Hornacek thinks about him.
Either way, I hope that we can get him for a reasonable contract, e.g. 15 million x 4. He may think that he is worth more but being a notorious dik makes him worth much less.
Last summer I was super high on trying to buy low on Rondo. I thought he'd have a huge bounce back season and people here told me he sucked and he was done. Now I'm saying Jennings is that guy. Rondo would be my second pick. But you want a guy who can't shoot? It's Rondo. Jennings CAN shoot, he's just streaky and takes bad shots at times. He could improve his FG% with shot selection. Rondo just has a bad shot. And he's over 30 and relies a lot on athleticism. 4 years for Rondo? I'd rather give Jennings 4yr $40M - Jennings wouldn't hit 30 til the last year of that deal. He could be the perfect bridge PG to keep Melo somewhat relevant, but also grow with KP.
But I do like Rondo and he'd be second on my list behind Jennings.
I just think Jennings FEELS like a good fit for this team. I see his personality being perfect for the Garden, KP, and Melo.
streaky shooters shouldn't get lots of money; they should be 6th or 7th men that perhaps you call on when youre desperate for buckets.
did people really say Rondo sucked? Cuckoo-bird, yes; loose canon, check; but sucks, no
I can't find all the threads, but this is one of them where I talked about how great Rondo would be for the Triangle and people said he would be terrible here:
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
I still like Rondo for the Triangle - if he wants to come here and his head is on right, I'd take him in a second and be excited about the possibilities.
But I still think Jennings is an even better fit - provided his achilles is healed and he isn't hindered by that.
If you're saying streaky shooters shouldn't get a lot of money, avert your eyes when DeMar DeRozan gets $25M per year this summer. Also, Jennings is less streaky than Rondo. By several magnitudes. Again, Rondo is a flat out bad shooter. Bad mechanics. Jennings is a good shooter with a pure stroke. His form is good. Just bad shot selection - that can be improved. He's 26. The age Billups was when he figured it out. The age Dragic was when he figured it out. It takes a while to learn how to be a good NBA point guard for some guys. Curry didn't start dominating til he was 26 or so. Westbrook is 27 and seems to have finally found the balance between being a scoring guard and a point guard - he even still struggles with shot selection sometimes.
Jennings is ready to make a leap in the right situation.
i kept my eye one jennings after he returned from his injury...knowing that he might be a potential FA for the knicks
ironically i think the injury HELPED him. now he is calm, uses his athleticism ONLY when necessary and lets the game come to him. i think the injury humbled him.
with that said, even though i think he would be a good fit for the knicks, hes still an enigmatic streaky PG
