Knicks · Knicks Backcourt fix (page 1)
Jerian grant lacked confidence all year, not game. He finally woke up in April. Him waking up is the player we need in November. You gotta lock him in as the starter at least over Calderon and Galloway.
Then you have Wroten. Guys continue to sleep on him and ignore his highlight videos like he didn't drop 30 on Chris Paul. He's got skill. His jumper is broke and he's wild but he's all better than any guard we currently have. You gotta see him as an upgrade pushing Sasha, Affalo and the rest further down on the bench.
Add one guy like Evan Fournier, Derozen, Bradley Beal, Eric Gordon.... just one. That gives you a revamped backcourt. You can use Calderon as the backup pg but playing considerably less minutes than the rest of the rotation.
We already got better and we will get better
If we picked Mudiay we would have been screaming too
FWIW
Mudiay stats
GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
68 66 30.4 .364 .319 .670 3.4 5.5 1.0 .5 12.8
Grant's
GP MPG FGM-FGA FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG BLKPG STLPG PFPG TOPG PPG
76 16.6 2.0-5.1 .394 .220 .780 1.9 2.3 0.1 0.7 1.3 1.1 5.6
Regarding Wroten, I will admit i have never really paid attention to him. I think it would be unwise to rely on him. I put him in the flyer category. If he plays well, awesome, but there's no reason to expect that. We need another guard -- one who can at least defend and hit an open shot. Getting one who actually reliably put points on board would be even better.
EnySpree wrote:Everyone is still saying the Knicks need to upgrade the back court. I think we already have.Jerian grant lacked confidence all year, not game. He finally woke up in April. Him waking up is the player we need in November. You gotta lock him in as the starter at least over Calderon and Galloway.
Then you have Wroten. Guys continue to sleep on him and ignore his highlight videos like he didn't drop 30 on Chris Paul. He's got skill. His jumper is broke and he's wild but he's all better than any guard we currently have. You gotta see him as an upgrade pushing Sasha, Affalo and the rest further down on the bench.
Add one guy like Evan Fournier, Derozen, Bradley Beal, Eric Gordon.... just one. That gives you a revamped backcourt. You can use Calderon as the backup pg but playing considerably less minutes than the rest of the rotation.
We already got better and we will get better
I've said this before that we should just add a legit SG this off season and go with Wroten/Grant at PG next season which will tell us if one of or both of them can step up and be a starting PG for us and having Hornacek will only help and if neither one show they can be a full time starter then the following off season is loaded with legit PG's and with the cap going up another $18/$20 mil we can get our PG of the future and Grant/Wroten can be really good athletic guards to come off the bench and give us instant offense with the 2nd team and both can play either guard spot as well.
Knixkik wrote:I agree. Grant should be much better next year. The focus needs to be the SG position first. We need to lock in Bazemore, Fournier, or Crabbe, the 3 most realistic players who bring youth and good outside shooting to the table. I'm offering 4/60 for one of them. After that, i am trying to get a quality backup PG who can split time with Grant on a 1-year deal. If Jennings wants to come on a 1-year deal, great. If not, i'm thinking Chalmers or Vasquez. 2 quality PGs who can be relied on. Anything we can get from Wroten is a bonus. Then i would like to take a flyer on an athletic big like Dwight Powell. After that, should be set.
I'm not paying $15 mil per to a guy like Crabbe who i do really like but he has not shown to be worth that kind of money yet. I'd give him $10/$12 at most. I would love to get one of those guys and E.Turner to be our 6th man, he can play multiple positions and does everything but hit 3's well. If we could add E.Turner one of K.Bazemore/Crabbe/Fournier and D.Lee or another big man that can rebound and give us some under the basket offense i'd be happy and D.Lee would be perfect because he can just lead the way for 1 or 2 years until Willy is more adjusted to the NBA.
newyorker4ever wrote:Knixkik wrote:I agree. Grant should be much better next year. The focus needs to be the SG position first. We need to lock in Bazemore, Fournier, or Crabbe, the 3 most realistic players who bring youth and good outside shooting to the table. I'm offering 4/60 for one of them. After that, i am trying to get a quality backup PG who can split time with Grant on a 1-year deal. If Jennings wants to come on a 1-year deal, great. If not, i'm thinking Chalmers or Vasquez. 2 quality PGs who can be relied on. Anything we can get from Wroten is a bonus. Then i would like to take a flyer on an athletic big like Dwight Powell. After that, should be set.I'm not paying $15 mil per to a guy like Crabbe who i do really like but he has not shown to be worth that kind of money yet. I'd give him $10/$12 at most. I would love to get one of those guys and E.Turner to be our 6th man, he can play multiple positions and does everything but hit 3's well. If we could add E.Turner one of K.Bazemore/Crabbe/Fournier and D.Lee or another big man that can rebound and give us some under the basket offense i'd be happy and D.Lee would be perfect because he can just lead the way for 1 or 2 years until Willy is more adjusted to the NBA.
I would try to get Crabbe for less too, but most starters are going to be making 15 mil per year, and Crabbe is a starter in this league. I will offer him 13m per year, but will go up to 15 if necessary. Bazemore and Fournier need 4/60 offers right away.
newyorker4ever wrote:I've said this before that we should just add a legit SG this off season and go with Wroten/Grant at PG next season which will tell us if one of or both of them can step up and be a starting PG for us and having Hornacek will only help and if neither one show they can be a full time starter then the following off season is loaded with legit PG's and with the cap going up another $18/$20 mil we can get our PG of the future and Grant/Wroten can be really good athletic guards to come off the bench and give us instant offense with the 2nd team and both can play either guard spot as well.
This seems best to me too. Eyes potentially on Westbrook next offseason, but secure a solid starting SG this offseason and see how the team develops.
nychamp wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I've said this before that we should just add a legit SG this off season and go with Wroten/Grant at PG next season which will tell us if one of or both of them can step up and be a starting PG for us and having Hornacek will only help and if neither one show they can be a full time starter then the following off season is loaded with legit PG's and with the cap going up another $18/$20 mil we can get our PG of the future and Grant/Wroten can be really good athletic guards to come off the bench and give us instant offense with the 2nd team and both can play either guard spot as well.This seems best to me too. Eyes potentially on Westbrook next offseason, but secure a solid starting SG this offseason and see how the team develops.
DeRozan would be a good fit here and maybe he makes a move if Lowry continues self destructing. I'd love to one up Toronto just once...
SupremeCommander wrote:nychamp wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I've said this before that we should just add a legit SG this off season and go with Wroten/Grant at PG next season which will tell us if one of or both of them can step up and be a starting PG for us and having Hornacek will only help and if neither one show they can be a full time starter then the following off season is loaded with legit PG's and with the cap going up another $18/$20 mil we can get our PG of the future and Grant/Wroten can be really good athletic guards to come off the bench and give us instant offense with the 2nd team and both can play either guard spot as well.This seems best to me too. Eyes potentially on Westbrook next offseason, but secure a solid starting SG this offseason and see how the team develops.
DeRozan would be a good fit here and maybe he makes a move if Lowry continues self destructing. I'd love to one up Toronto just once...
I disagree about him being a great fit. He's a star player, so if you can get him you do, but he's not the best fit. You can't surround Melo and KP with a bunch of non-3pt shooters. Ideally, your PG is a good creative offensive player who will make plays for others, and your SG is a lights out shooter and solid defender.
SupremeCommander wrote:nychamp wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I've said this before that we should just add a legit SG this off season and go with Wroten/Grant at PG next season which will tell us if one of or both of them can step up and be a starting PG for us and having Hornacek will only help and if neither one show they can be a full time starter then the following off season is loaded with legit PG's and with the cap going up another $18/$20 mil we can get our PG of the future and Grant/Wroten can be really good athletic guards to come off the bench and give us instant offense with the 2nd team and both can play either guard spot as well.This seems best to me too. Eyes potentially on Westbrook next offseason, but secure a solid starting SG this offseason and see how the team develops.
DeRozan would be a good fit here and maybe he makes a move if Lowry continues self destructing. I'd love to one up Toronto just once...
DeRozan is fools gold.
blkexec wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:nychamp wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I've said this before that we should just add a legit SG this off season and go with Wroten/Grant at PG next season which will tell us if one of or both of them can step up and be a starting PG for us and having Hornacek will only help and if neither one show they can be a full time starter then the following off season is loaded with legit PG's and with the cap going up another $18/$20 mil we can get our PG of the future and Grant/Wroten can be really good athletic guards to come off the bench and give us instant offense with the 2nd team and both can play either guard spot as well.This seems best to me too. Eyes potentially on Westbrook next offseason, but secure a solid starting SG this offseason and see how the team develops.
DeRozan would be a good fit here and maybe he makes a move if Lowry continues self destructing. I'd love to one up Toronto just once...
DeRozan is fools gold.
Having only seen DeRozan play in these playoffs, I can't see what he does well. What's his bread and butter? It surely ain't scoring or shooting, so what is it?
3s are the name of the game nowadays, if your team can't hit them, chances are you're a bottom dweller team.
martin wrote:blkexec wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:nychamp wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I've said this before that we should just add a legit SG this off season and go with Wroten/Grant at PG next season which will tell us if one of or both of them can step up and be a starting PG for us and having Hornacek will only help and if neither one show they can be a full time starter then the following off season is loaded with legit PG's and with the cap going up another $18/$20 mil we can get our PG of the future and Grant/Wroten can be really good athletic guards to come off the bench and give us instant offense with the 2nd team and both can play either guard spot as well.This seems best to me too. Eyes potentially on Westbrook next offseason, but secure a solid starting SG this offseason and see how the team develops.
DeRozan would be a good fit here and maybe he makes a move if Lowry continues self destructing. I'd love to one up Toronto just once...
DeRozan is fools gold.
Having only seen DeRozan play in these playoffs, I can't see what he does well. What's his bread and butter? It surely ain't scoring or shooting, so what is it?
He's like a poor man's Melo in the sense where he's a good scorer, but not capable of taking over the way Melo does at his best. Otherwise, he's average at everything else. Not a good rebounder, passer, defender, or outside shooter. Great at getting to the free throw line, that's about it. I would rather have Fournier, Bazemore, or Crabbe for 60% of the cost, and save the rest for the bench or PG position as we evaluate that.
martin wrote:Having only seen DeRozan play in these playoffs, I can't see what he does well. What's his bread and butter? It surely ain't scoring or shooting, so what is it?
derozan led the nba in drives to the basket. he was 2nd in ft's made. the playoffs, the whistle gets much tighter which takes away the ft's - and his game is not diverse enough to adjust. foul calls he was getting in the regular season were not there in the playoffs. so i think it threw him for a loop. one thing i will say is he was guarded by paul george in round 1 - the league was not going to call any fouls on him.
he doesn't have good handles and doesn't have good vision. he also can't shoot the 3. he's a very good regular season player but not a difference maker. but he is a major offensive component to a winning team, that's why he's been an all star 2 of the last 3 years and would've been one 3 years in a row if he wasn't hurt. he was a player given mins from day 1 and carte blanche. he's a really good guy and has improved his game tremendously - very hard work ethic. every season he's gotten better. but i think he really would've benefitted from a more disciplanary coach and a organized offense.
the funny thing is that when we start featuring jonas more in the offense these playoffs, dd's game started becoming more efficient. unfortunately that only lasted 1.5 games before jonas got hurt.
EnySpree wrote:Everyone is still saying the Knicks need to upgrade the back court. I think we already have.Add one guy like Evan Fournier, Derozen, Bradley Beal, Eric Gordon.... just one. That gives you a revamped backcourt. You can use Calderon as the backup pg but playing considerably less minutes than the rest of the rotation.
EASY! PIECE OF CAKE!!
SupremeCommander wrote:We have no jumpshot in our backcourt. Wroten is a drive guy. He is a total system guy. He'll buy in and we'll be better off for it, but he's got no shot. Neither does Grant. The cupboard is bare at 2.
I think Grant has more of a chance of finding his shot than Wroten does though. All you heard about the kid this season was how much work he puts in so if he keeps that up and with him working with Chris Jackson who was a great shooter in his day he could develop a good shot this off season and his shot was getting better as the season wore down but i'd still like to get a C.Lee or Seth Curry or A.Crabbe, K.Bazemore this off season.
SupremeCommander wrote:nychamp wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I've said this before that we should just add a legit SG this off season and go with Wroten/Grant at PG next season which will tell us if one of or both of them can step up and be a starting PG for us and having Hornacek will only help and if neither one show they can be a full time starter then the following off season is loaded with legit PG's and with the cap going up another $18/$20 mil we can get our PG of the future and Grant/Wroten can be really good athletic guards to come off the bench and give us instant offense with the 2nd team and both can play either guard spot as well.This seems best to me too. Eyes potentially on Westbrook next offseason, but secure a solid starting SG this offseason and see how the team develops.
DeRozan would be a good fit here and maybe he makes a move if Lowry continues self destructing. I'd love to one up Toronto just once...
I think Derozan ends up with the Lakers.
RicanHavok wrote:Agree about Derozan, he's more starphucking imo. For Crabbe, Ideally he gets a shump type contract at 10m per, I'd be all in for that.
We aren't getting Crabbe for $10 per but i'd be happy as all hellz if we could.
newyorker4ever wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:We have no jumpshot in our backcourt. Wroten is a drive guy. He is a total system guy. He'll buy in and we'll be better off for it, but he's got no shot. Neither does Grant. The cupboard is bare at 2.I think Grant has more of a chance of finding his shot than Wroten does though. All you heard about the kid this season was how much work he puts in so if he keeps that up and with him working with Chris Jackson who was a great shooter in his day he could develop a good shot this off season and his shot was getting better as the season wore down but i'd still like to get a C.Lee or Seth Curry or A.Crabbe, K.Bazemore this off season.
I would expect Jerian to be ahead of Wroten shooting wise. Jerian really showed his improvement shooting late this season, but I wouldn't worry that much about Wroten's jumper. I actually think he's likely never going to be a great shooter but Wroten is so good at getting to the rim that it can have a very positive impact on this team working off picks. People REALLY are underestimating how good a penetrator Wroten can be. Wroten can focus on drive and kick.
Knicks will likely focus on SG's as they should. There are guys in the Draft and FA for the Knicks to go after.