nixluva wrote:The time it would take to bring in players with BBIQ high enough to master the Triangle is prohibitive.
Then why start at all (?)
Either do it 100% . . . or don't do it at all.
If it takes so long to master why did the 2000 Lakers win 67 games and a championship in their first season using it?
The Bulls made the conference finals their first year using it and won a championship in their second season using it.
There's no reason not to update it.
There's no pure Triangle. The Lakers and Bulls played very different versions of the system.
Why isn't this a self-evident thing that you can answer for yourself? You just compared a roster and talent level of a championship quality team that was together for a couple of years. And? And you can't figure out why they gell'ed and learned so quick? Versus a rookie who started, a C who was new to being part of the offense, a backcourt who on paper sucks, a bench of rookie and vet min players.
Why can't you answer why the learning curve would be greater for one team over another?
It wasn't a question I needed answered for myself. It's my rebuttal to Malcolm saying Rambis needed more time.
I think Rambis was a terrible coach and he was the problem, not the Triangle.
I think a smart coach such as Hornacek already sees how to tweak and use the Triangle to suit the personnel he has here.
yea I heard you. Knicks problem was talent first and some bad luck next. They were 20-20 and their best player went down. They lose the next 9. That was the season. Other guys got hurt after, their 2nd best player hit the rookie wall and thems the breaks. Last season wasn't a triangle problem, and we had a lot of guys play very well. Backcourt killed us. Plain and simple
No argument here. You and I talked about that all season. For sure.
But that still doesn't mean We couldn't judge the work Rambis did with what he had. The fact that KP wasn't on board speaks volumes to me. That kid lives and breathes hoops. If he had a problem with Rambis? That's all I need to know.
I'm thrilled for Hornacek. Hoping Grant progresses, Wroten can give us something, and we add a solid guard or two in the off-season. All that happens with some KP development and continued Melo play, I think we make the playoffs easy. Obviously that's a lot of ifs. But I'm optimistic about Hornacek and the leeway Phil has already given him to talk about adding pick and rolls and tweaking the Triangle. I think it'll be a good fit. I don't think Rambis was, and to Phil's credit, he acknowledged that.
newyorker4ever@ 6/3/2016 7:48 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Didn't catch the press conference, but the espn crawl said that Hornacek said that they would have a "significant" amount of pick and roll, with elements of the triangle. No complaints here.
I don't think he ever used the word significant but he did say he'd use the pick and roll.
newyorker4ever@ 6/3/2016 7:53 PM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
nixluva wrote:The time it would take to bring in players with BBIQ high enough to master the Triangle is prohibitive.
Then why start at all (?)
Either do it 100% . . . or don't do it at all.
If it takes so long to master why did the 2000 Lakers win 67 games and a championship in their first season using it?
The Bulls made the conference finals their first year using it and won a championship in their second season using it.
There's no reason not to update it.
There's no pure Triangle. The Lakers and Bulls played very different versions of the system.
Why isn't this a self-evident thing that you can answer for yourself? You just compared a roster and talent level of a championship quality team that was together for a couple of years. And? And you can't figure out why they gell'ed and learned so quick? Versus a rookie who started, a C who was new to being part of the offense, a backcourt who on paper sucks, a bench of rookie and vet min players.
Why can't you answer why the learning curve would be greater for one team over another?
It wasn't a question I needed answered for myself. It's my rebuttal to Malcolm saying Rambis needed more time.
I think Rambis was a terrible coach and he was the problem, not the Triangle.
I think a smart coach such as Hornacek already sees how to tweak and use the Triangle to suit the personnel he has here.
yea I heard you. Knicks problem was talent first and some bad luck next. They were 20-20 and their best player went down. They lose the next 9. That was the season. Other guys got hurt after, their 2nd best player hit the rookie wall and thems the breaks. Last season wasn't a triangle problem, and we had a lot of guys play very well. Backcourt killed us. Plain and simple
No argument here. You and I talked about that all season. For sure.
But that still doesn't mean We couldn't judge the work Rambis did with what he had. The fact that KP wasn't on board speaks volumes to me. That kid lives and breathes hoops. If he had a problem with Rambis? That's all I need to know.
I'm thrilled for Hornacek. Hoping Grant progresses, Wroten can give us something, and we add a solid guard or two in the off-season. All that happens with some KP development and continued Melo play, I think we make the playoffs easy. Obviously that's a lot of ifs. But I'm optimistic about Hornacek and the leeway Phil has already given him to talk about adding pick and rolls and tweaking the Triangle. I think it'll be a good fit. I don't think Rambis was, and to Phil's credit, he acknowledged that.
I'll bet nobody can ever find any quote from KP's mouth that he wasn't on board with Rambis?? Please don't give me anything that some reporter said.
crzymdups@ 6/3/2016 8:01 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
nixluva wrote:The time it would take to bring in players with BBIQ high enough to master the Triangle is prohibitive.
Then why start at all (?)
Either do it 100% . . . or don't do it at all.
If it takes so long to master why did the 2000 Lakers win 67 games and a championship in their first season using it?
The Bulls made the conference finals their first year using it and won a championship in their second season using it.
There's no reason not to update it.
There's no pure Triangle. The Lakers and Bulls played very different versions of the system.
Why isn't this a self-evident thing that you can answer for yourself? You just compared a roster and talent level of a championship quality team that was together for a couple of years. And? And you can't figure out why they gell'ed and learned so quick? Versus a rookie who started, a C who was new to being part of the offense, a backcourt who on paper sucks, a bench of rookie and vet min players.
Why can't you answer why the learning curve would be greater for one team over another?
It wasn't a question I needed answered for myself. It's my rebuttal to Malcolm saying Rambis needed more time.
I think Rambis was a terrible coach and he was the problem, not the Triangle.
I think a smart coach such as Hornacek already sees how to tweak and use the Triangle to suit the personnel he has here.
yea I heard you. Knicks problem was talent first and some bad luck next. They were 20-20 and their best player went down. They lose the next 9. That was the season. Other guys got hurt after, their 2nd best player hit the rookie wall and thems the breaks. Last season wasn't a triangle problem, and we had a lot of guys play very well. Backcourt killed us. Plain and simple
No argument here. You and I talked about that all season. For sure.
But that still doesn't mean We couldn't judge the work Rambis did with what he had. The fact that KP wasn't on board speaks volumes to me. That kid lives and breathes hoops. If he had a problem with Rambis? That's all I need to know.
I'm thrilled for Hornacek. Hoping Grant progresses, Wroten can give us something, and we add a solid guard or two in the off-season. All that happens with some KP development and continued Melo play, I think we make the playoffs easy. Obviously that's a lot of ifs. But I'm optimistic about Hornacek and the leeway Phil has already given him to talk about adding pick and rolls and tweaking the Triangle. I think it'll be a good fit. I don't think Rambis was, and to Phil's credit, he acknowledged that.
I'll bet nobody can ever find any quote from KP's mouth that he wasn't on board with Rambis?? Please don't give me anything that some reporter said.
I don't think you understand how the world works all that well. Find one candid quote from any NBA player about what they think about their coach that just got fired. Find some candid quotes from John Wall about Randy Wittman. Please.
nixluva@ 6/3/2016 8:11 PM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
nixluva wrote:The time it would take to bring in players with BBIQ high enough to master the Triangle is prohibitive.
Then why start at all (?)
Either do it 100% . . . or don't do it at all.
If it takes so long to master why did the 2000 Lakers win 67 games and a championship in their first season using it?
The Bulls made the conference finals their first year using it and won a championship in their second season using it.
There's no reason not to update it.
There's no pure Triangle. The Lakers and Bulls played very different versions of the system.
Why isn't this a self-evident thing that you can answer for yourself? You just compared a roster and talent level of a championship quality team that was together for a couple of years. And? And you can't figure out why they gell'ed and learned so quick? Versus a rookie who started, a C who was new to being part of the offense, a backcourt who on paper sucks, a bench of rookie and vet min players.
Why can't you answer why the learning curve would be greater for one team over another?
It wasn't a question I needed answered for myself. It's my rebuttal to Malcolm saying Rambis needed more time.
I think Rambis was a terrible coach and he was the problem, not the Triangle.
I think a smart coach such as Hornacek already sees how to tweak and use the Triangle to suit the personnel he has here.
yea I heard you. Knicks problem was talent first and some bad luck next. They were 20-20 and their best player went down. They lose the next 9. That was the season. Other guys got hurt after, their 2nd best player hit the rookie wall and thems the breaks. Last season wasn't a triangle problem, and we had a lot of guys play very well. Backcourt killed us. Plain and simple
No argument here. You and I talked about that all season. For sure.
But that still doesn't mean We couldn't judge the work Rambis did with what he had. The fact that KP wasn't on board speaks volumes to me. That kid lives and breathes hoops. If he had a problem with Rambis? That's all I need to know.
I'm thrilled for Hornacek. Hoping Grant progresses, Wroten can give us something, and we add a solid guard or two in the off-season. All that happens with some KP development and continued Melo play, I think we make the playoffs easy. Obviously that's a lot of ifs. But I'm optimistic about Hornacek and the leeway Phil has already given him to talk about adding pick and rolls and tweaking the Triangle. I think it'll be a good fit. I don't think Rambis was, and to Phil's credit, he acknowledged that.
Yeah i'm much more interested in the fact that Phil made the shift rather than harping on the fact that he is moving away from a purely Triangle worldview as the media keeps making a point of. Who cares why or what led to this? The important thing is that it was the right thing to do for this team. The team needed a coach that could relate and inspire the players and get the most out of their talents. Hornacek seems like the right guy for the job.
The important thing is that Phil TRUSTS Hornacek and he's gonna give him a LOT of room to do what he wants because he believes in his judgment and basketball IQ. JH will have a Prez that has his back and will give him what he needs to succeed. That's what is most important.
callmened@ 6/3/2016 8:45 PM
you know one small detail that i liked - about phil. we HEARD about the hire and we ALL wanted to see the press conference right away. WHY WAS THERE A DELAY!!!
coach hornecek and wife were celebrating their 30th wedding anniversary. phil said, take your time and come back when your ready
GustavBahler@ 6/3/2016 8:50 PM
From the Daily News, thought this was interesting from Frye...
He’s not a rah-rah guy. He’s a player’s coach but at the same time he’s going to demand your respect,” Frye said. “He’s going to say this is how I want the game to be played, but he’s going to let you play. He’s great. He’s one of my favorite coaches.”
Despite Hornacek being an accounting major and big into numbers, Frye said his former coach doesn’t override his feelings with analytics.
CrushAlot@ 6/3/2016 9:18 PM
callmened wrote:you know one small detail that i liked - about phil. we HEARD about the hire and we ALL wanted to see the press conference right away. WHY WAS THERE A DELAY!!!
coach hornecek and wife were celebrating their 30th wedding anniversary. phil said, take your time and come back when your ready
I still haven't watched the press conference yet but that is an awesome detail from it.
Malcolm@ 6/3/2016 9:57 PM
nixluva wrote:JH talked about how the players already know a lot of the Triangle and that his tweaks will be relatively easy to implement.
If he actually said that . . . then my fears that he is delusional are completely confirmed.
The players currently don't know squat about the Triangle (Vujacic excepted, of course) . . .
nixluva@ 6/3/2016 10:15 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
callmened wrote:you know one small detail that i liked - about phil. we HEARD about the hire and we ALL wanted to see the press conference right away. WHY WAS THERE A DELAY!!!
coach hornecek and wife were celebrating their 30th wedding anniversary. phil said, take your time and come back when your ready
I still haven't watched the press conference yet but that is an awesome detail from it.
Abbey sighting
Another nice interview with Jonah Ballow
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/738913894299774976
Thanks for posting this Nix ^ Good stuff. Sounds like they will make a good team, two smart guys. Letting Hornacek dictate the offense also takes the microscope off of the Triangle. There wont be as much scrutiny on its effectiveness as it won't be the only system used. Takes some pressure off of Phil, should enjoy his job more. Im sure he's tired of answering questions about the Triangle 24/7. Sounds like a win-win for the team and mgmt.
smackeddog@ 6/4/2016 4:46 AM
Very interesting interview with Hornacek on the Michael Kay Show:
I like this hire very much. Phil has a way of diffusing the New York media like no one who has come before.
This is an inspired hire and its a sleight of hand. Phil gets his system, the media and critics can pound sand.
I also think we're in for a great season. I think we have ignition and all systems are 'go'.
We already have a team that can make the playoffs assuming no major injuries or Murphy's Law interventions and everything Phil does this post-season will simply add to that.
