lebron chokes on a layup at 1:12. he HAS TO make that layup for a 3-point play there. what happens next?
curry makes a layup off a trap. WOW
Lebron is playing with one allstar....Love has played anywhere near an allstar level since joining the Cavs ...
dk7th wrote:lebron chokes on a layup at 1:12. he HAS TO make that layup for a 3-point play there. what happens next?curry makes a layup off a trap. WOW
If I recall right, he didn't choke it rolled out. I watched the whole game but I might be 'misremembering' that play.
rmears718 wrote:That's not the point...It's not about Finals appearances...It's about the LeBron build up by the NBA & the expense of changing the game to be less physical ....to create & manufacture the next NBA idol - post Jordan. The so called Superstar now being exposed. It's not about 6 final appearances very. the Knicks being terrible or great...It's big picture. The post is not to discredit - LeBron....It's about letting the officiating loosen the constant foul calling & allow some contact... Eg. Not calling a foul after every flip-flop. Just to be clear ... LeBron wouldn't have had 6 finals appearances - had he not been part of the "Miami Super Team".
You are aware that games are played by teams and not individual players, right? LeBron can never have a bad game and often has to post near triple doubles for that team to even have a chance. Meanwhile, Steph Curry can have two subpar games and his team dominates. That is the difference this series, not LeBron "being exposed".
And you are aware that Jordan might've been patient-zero as a beneficiary of phantom fouls, right? You talk about him like he wasn't a product of the NBA hype machine.
Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:Lebron may not even be the greatest player of his own time (Curry?) , nevermind of all time. Time will tell, but 2 rings cannot justify the GOAT crown.
Lebron is at minimal one level above Curry on defense. Curry isn't a level above Lebron on offense. Lebron has elevated average put together teams to be 50+ win teams. Curry has yet to be in that type of situation. There are way to many elements that go into winning a championship to rate players by how many chips they won.
Average put together teams?! He played with 2 all stars in Miami, and 2 all stars now on the Cavs. Veteran players take minimal deals to play in on his stacked teams. he has more influence than anyone in the NBA who plays on his teams. How on earth are you going to give him a pass on average put together teams?! What a joke!
So you'll just conveniently forget his first 7 seasons in the league, which included a Finals appearance? You'll also forget that the man was the centerpiece of a 60-win team that immediately became an all-time worst team the following season when he left to MIA? Are you people serious?
Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:Lebron may not even be the greatest player of his own time (Curry?) , nevermind of all time. Time will tell, but 2 rings cannot justify the GOAT crown.
Lebron is at minimal one level above Curry on defense. Curry isn't a level above Lebron on offense. Lebron has elevated average put together teams to be 50+ win teams. Curry has yet to be in that type of situation. There are way to many elements that go into winning a championship to rate players by how many chips they won.
Average put together teams?! He played with 2 all stars in Miami, and 2 all stars now on the Cavs. Veteran players take minimal deals to play in on his stacked teams. he has more influence than anyone in the NBA who plays on his teams. How on earth are you going to give him a pass on average put together teams?! What a joke!
Before that, when he left to Miami the Cavs won 19 games. They won 61 games the season prior with Lebron. He went to his first finals with Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Ilgouskas, Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlavic, Damon Jones, Donney Marshall, Daniel Gibson.
That was 7 years ago. He's been on stacked teams the last 6 years.
You mean a "stacked team" that missed the playoffs entirely the year he left MIA? Dude are you serious? FYI, that happened in a weak conference as well.
NardDogNation wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:Lebron may not even be the greatest player of his own time (Curry?) , nevermind of all time. Time will tell, but 2 rings cannot justify the GOAT crown.
Lebron is at minimal one level above Curry on defense. Curry isn't a level above Lebron on offense. Lebron has elevated average put together teams to be 50+ win teams. Curry has yet to be in that type of situation. There are way to many elements that go into winning a championship to rate players by how many chips they won.
Average put together teams?! He played with 2 all stars in Miami, and 2 all stars now on the Cavs. Veteran players take minimal deals to play in on his stacked teams. he has more influence than anyone in the NBA who plays on his teams. How on earth are you going to give him a pass on average put together teams?! What a joke!
Before that, when he left to Miami the Cavs won 19 games. They won 61 games the season prior with Lebron. He went to his first finals with Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Ilgouskas, Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlavic, Damon Jones, Donney Marshall, Daniel Gibson.
That was 7 years ago. He's been on stacked teams the last 6 years.
You mean a "stacked team" that missed the playoffs entirely the year he left MIA? Dude are you serious? FYI, that happened in a weak conference as well.
Yeah, and the guy has played like 15 to 20 seasons worth of minutes (heavy regular season and playoff min combined). Forget "King" - it's amazing he's still a superstar or even star.
Frankly I think Kerr has out coached Lue in a meaningful way. That said, superstars are supposed to elevate the players around them. Cleveland doesn't have the depth and bench that GS does. Lebron is either passing two much or not bringing out the best in a solid team. Your supposed to win in Cleveland. They've plenty of talent in JR/Tistan and 3 all stars. But they don't play lock down D and The King has lost his jumper. It matters as a that's a game that Lebron needed to dominate. He only had 18 with 1:12' left. He shoulda has 35 and Mosgov should be out there as he added depth.
NardDogNation wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:Lebron may not even be the greatest player of his own time (Curry?) , nevermind of all time. Time will tell, but 2 rings cannot justify the GOAT crown.
Lebron is at minimal one level above Curry on defense. Curry isn't a level above Lebron on offense. Lebron has elevated average put together teams to be 50+ win teams. Curry has yet to be in that type of situation. There are way to many elements that go into winning a championship to rate players by how many chips they won.
Average put together teams?! He played with 2 all stars in Miami, and 2 all stars now on the Cavs. Veteran players take minimal deals to play in on his stacked teams. he has more influence than anyone in the NBA who plays on his teams. How on earth are you going to give him a pass on average put together teams?! What a joke!
Before that, when he left to Miami the Cavs won 19 games. They won 61 games the season prior with Lebron. He went to his first finals with Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Ilgouskas, Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlavic, Damon Jones, Donney Marshall, Daniel Gibson.
That was 7 years ago. He's been on stacked teams the last 6 years.
You mean a "stacked team" that missed the playoffs entirely the year he left MIA? Dude are you serious? FYI, that happened in a weak conference as well.
how much did Wade/Bosh play that year?
Lebron has played with good talent. He's not the alpha scorer. He certainly the one of the best 3 NBA player every year. He needs that killer scorer to win the title. Wade was that guy. He's not that guy. 6 Finals in a row is insane
fishmike wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:Lebron may not even be the greatest player of his own time (Curry?) , nevermind of all time. Time will tell, but 2 rings cannot justify the GOAT crown.
Lebron is at minimal one level above Curry on defense. Curry isn't a level above Lebron on offense. Lebron has elevated average put together teams to be 50+ win teams. Curry has yet to be in that type of situation. There are way to many elements that go into winning a championship to rate players by how many chips they won.
Average put together teams?! He played with 2 all stars in Miami, and 2 all stars now on the Cavs. Veteran players take minimal deals to play in on his stacked teams. he has more influence than anyone in the NBA who plays on his teams. How on earth are you going to give him a pass on average put together teams?! What a joke!
Before that, when he left to Miami the Cavs won 19 games. They won 61 games the season prior with Lebron. He went to his first finals with Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Ilgouskas, Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlavic, Damon Jones, Donney Marshall, Daniel Gibson.
That was 7 years ago. He's been on stacked teams the last 6 years.
You mean a "stacked team" that missed the playoffs entirely the year he left MIA? Dude are you serious? FYI, that happened in a weak conference as well.
how much did Wade/Bosh play that year?
Lebron has played with good talent. He's not the alpha scorer. He certainly the one of the best 3 NBA player every year. He needs that killer scorer to win the title. Wade was that guy. He's not that guy. 6 Finals in a row is insane
Mentally Lebron isn't as strong as Jordan or even Kobe. What makes him such a strong team player also holds him back from with the killer instinct. Which is y Jordan will be considered the greater winner. Lebron has more tools then any player that has ever played before which is y he is considered by many the best player. Depends what your looking for. If you want a player that can do more on the court then anyone else then Lebron is your guy. If you want killer instinct and will to win then Jordan is your guy. If you are purely about how many chips a player has then Russell is your guy.
Lebron has proven that he's the one player in the NBA that you can put him on a team and instantly that team is gonna be a winner, if not a Finals team. He's just an amazing impact player. He's also a TEAM player and IMO it's easier to pair him with other top players. This Cavs team is not a great team. It's a good team but a great team like the Warriors are able to handle everyone else on the Cavs except maybe Kyrie. So they reduce the Cavs to Lebron and Kyrie. All those open 3's that JR, Frye, Love and Kyrie were getting have been limited.
Lebron wants to setup his teammates but they aren't able to get off good shots. I think people tend to underestimate how good the Warriors actually are.
"King" is not a cool name?
Ok, but Kobe is not really a "Black Mamba" right?
And karl Malone really was not a "Mailman", right"
NBA manufactures superstars but the public is the real one that builds it up. And Fans are loving to tear him down now as well.
Its why there are Melo haters as we have them. Just love to tear down a guy who is just killing it in life. We love to do it to our music heroes and actors!
Its part of culture.
Lebron is top five Non center in the history of the game. Guy can play 4 positions, perhaps even 5. A kings reign can only be measured by the kingdom he rules.
Bonn1997 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:Lebron may not even be the greatest player of his own time (Curry?) , nevermind of all time. Time will tell, but 2 rings cannot justify the GOAT crown.
Lebron is at minimal one level above Curry on defense. Curry isn't a level above Lebron on offense. Lebron has elevated average put together teams to be 50+ win teams. Curry has yet to be in that type of situation. There are way to many elements that go into winning a championship to rate players by how many chips they won.
Average put together teams?! He played with 2 all stars in Miami, and 2 all stars now on the Cavs. Veteran players take minimal deals to play in on his stacked teams. he has more influence than anyone in the NBA who plays on his teams. How on earth are you going to give him a pass on average put together teams?! What a joke!
Before that, when he left to Miami the Cavs won 19 games. They won 61 games the season prior with Lebron. He went to his first finals with Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Ilgouskas, Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlavic, Damon Jones, Donney Marshall, Daniel Gibson.
That was 7 years ago. He's been on stacked teams the last 6 years.
You mean a "stacked team" that missed the playoffs entirely the year he left MIA? Dude are you serious? FYI, that happened in a weak conference as well.
Yeah, and the guy has played like 15 to 20 seasons worth of minutes (heavy regular season and playoff min combined). Forget "King" - it's amazing he's still a superstar or even star.
I was just thinking the same thing. He's had all-star talent from day-1 and has always been "the man" in this league, since he was an 18 year kid. Lesser players, albeit all-stars, out of high school all fell off around 30 despite never having to shoulder the load that LeBron has e.g. Jermaine O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis, etc.
Thy punch the Royal Gonads, tha'll shalt be suspended.
The King rules!!!!
LeBron was, the truth is no one can be the King forever. Sometimes the King needs to step down. And at that time, sure you can surely call him truly not the King.
I would still pick Curry > LeBron in this case.
Yous guys don't remember lebron epic games during the regular or playoffs moments. King James been doing this for over 10 yrs now constistently..
No serious injuries in his career and he carried a mediocre talent cleveland squad to the Nba finals in 2007. 6'8 250 pound once in a lifetime athetic freak..
They will never be another LeBron James..
newyorknewyork wrote:fishmike wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Panos wrote:Lebron may not even be the greatest player of his own time (Curry?) , nevermind of all time. Time will tell, but 2 rings cannot justify the GOAT crown.
Lebron is at minimal one level above Curry on defense. Curry isn't a level above Lebron on offense. Lebron has elevated average put together teams to be 50+ win teams. Curry has yet to be in that type of situation. There are way to many elements that go into winning a championship to rate players by how many chips they won.
Average put together teams?! He played with 2 all stars in Miami, and 2 all stars now on the Cavs. Veteran players take minimal deals to play in on his stacked teams. he has more influence than anyone in the NBA who plays on his teams. How on earth are you going to give him a pass on average put together teams?! What a joke!
Before that, when he left to Miami the Cavs won 19 games. They won 61 games the season prior with Lebron. He went to his first finals with Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Ilgouskas, Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlavic, Damon Jones, Donney Marshall, Daniel Gibson.
That was 7 years ago. He's been on stacked teams the last 6 years.
You mean a "stacked team" that missed the playoffs entirely the year he left MIA? Dude are you serious? FYI, that happened in a weak conference as well.
how much did Wade/Bosh play that year?
Lebron has played with good talent. He's not the alpha scorer. He certainly the one of the best 3 NBA player every year. He needs that killer scorer to win the title. Wade was that guy. He's not that guy. 6 Finals in a row is insane
Mentally Lebron isn't as strong as Jordan or even Kobe. What makes him such a strong team player also holds him back from with the killer instinct. Which is y Jordan will be considered the greater winner. Lebron has more tools then any player that has ever played before which is y he is considered by many the best player. Depends what your looking for. If you want a player that can do more on the court then anyone else then Lebron is your guy. If you want killer instinct and will to win then Jordan is your guy. If you are purely about how many chips a player has then Russell is your guy.
It's not just chips with Russell, he was the epitome of a team player. He made mediocre talent HOF great. He took a franchise that couldn't make the playoffs with a protoypical PG at the time and won a chip immediately. Russell would destroy you to win. He blocked shots to start the break, not to make a statement. His BB IQ makes Lebron look like a grammar school reject at times. Russell played how many game 7's and won every single one of them.
Lebron's a unique talent. But he's not anywhere near the level Russell was. Flopping. Quitting in the playoffs. Starphucqing Player/GM Deluxe. Sorry, those count against you in GOAT-level conversations. Epic moments on the way to losing don't count for much, IMHO. And I'm not a Lebron hater by any means. Who wouldn't want him on your team?
dk7th wrote:barnes's shot at 5:57 of the 4th was also a big shot.
that really was. i was screaming at the tv after the shot....ICE IN HIS VEINS!
stopstandthere wrote:I would still pick Curry > LeBron in this case.
Kobe without question. He's one of the greats, but for many reasons i have discussed before, he is the most overrated 'great' of all time.
I am not a LeBron fan, but i think he has done enough to justify his place as the 2nd best player of all time, when his career comes to an end.
