This is inspired by something BlkExec said in another thread about not knowing what Lebron could do to possibly equal or surpass Jordan's 6-0 finals record, which got me thinking what if the King playing in this era of free agency and "brand building" became known as the deliverer of chips to long suffering franchises. He goes back home to Cleveland and immediately takes them to the finals and then the following year delivers the first trophy to a city synonymous with loserdom. What if he now, opts out next year to come play with his brother Melo and the Unicorn to restore the Knicks to the top of the NBA pyramid and delivers us a championship and a parade down the canyon of heroes. Then leaves the following year to hook up with his boy Chris Paul (who the Knicks had swept the year before) to do the most amazing thing in all of sports and lift the lowly Clippers to the mountaintop. If he managed to restore three incredibly inept & suffering franchises to champions, I think he would undoubtedly be seen as the GOAT.
I am actually worried about that... if he joined the Knicks after the first Cle departure I would call us lucky beyond belief. At this point do you really want Lebron to come here and win a chip? Someone mentioned signing MJ or Reggie and I feel exactly the same way.. I wouldn't want a title with one of those guys and I wouldn't want Lebron at this point. I am probably in the minority but I just wouldn't embrace that. It would really just be "the King" using the Knicks to show the world how wonderful he is
fishmike wrote:I am actually worried about that... if he joined the Knicks after the first Cle departure I would call us lucky beyond belief. At this point do you really want Lebron to come here and win a chip? Someone mentioned signing MJ or Reggie and I feel exactly the same way.. I wouldn't want a title with one of those guys and I wouldn't want Lebron at this point. I am probably in the minority but I just wouldn't embrace that. It would really just be "the King" using the Knicks to show the world how wonderful he is
I agree... it would taint the whole thing
You take your championships anyway you can get them. The league is already tainted so might as well play by the rules. LeBron is the big reason it is tainted first Miami and super friends and returning to Cleveland after the cupboards have been restocked with top picks. It's obvious that LeBron has tainted the league. Everything about LeBron has been calculated and I wouldn't be to shocked if the NBA has been playing along with it too.
fishmike wrote:I am actually worried about that... if he joined the Knicks after the first Cle departure I would call us lucky beyond belief. At this point do you really want Lebron to come here and win a chip? Someone mentioned signing MJ or Reggie and I feel exactly the same way.. I wouldn't want a title with one of those guys and I wouldn't want Lebron at this point. I am probably in the minority but I just wouldn't embrace that. It would really just be "the King" using the Knicks to show the world how wonderful he is
I don't think Bron needs the Knicks to show how wonderful he is. But if Lebron is a historian, then being known as someone who can instantly bring a chip to any franchise might be enough to rank above MJ....
The question is do you care more about another man legacy and how much credit he will get? Or end this long 43 yr suffering of not having a championship. I would welcome Bron with open arms in today's NBA. Back in the MJ era, no because there was more loyalty back then to players and teams. Now we live in an era where everybody will try to create a superteam. So I'm ok with Lebron coming to NYC.
blkexec wrote:Now we live in an era where everybody will try to create a superteam. So I'm ok with Lebron coming to NYC.
Yeah me too. Plus if he is acting like the defacto GM then how is he any different then GMs in the past that created superteams??? I mean didnt Jerry West steal Shaq from Orlando to create a superteam, didn't Reinsdorf convince Rodman to leave Detroit (with the promise of better therapists & tattoo parlors in Chicago) to do the same for the Bulls??? Why is it only negative when players do it for themselves???
Vmart wrote:You take your championships anyway you can get them. The league is already tainted so might as well play by the rules. LeBron is the big reason it is tainted first Miami and super friends and returning to Cleveland after the cupboards have been restocked with top picks. It's obvious that LeBron has tainted the league. Everything about LeBron has been calculated and I wouldn't be to shocked if the NBA has been playing along with it too.
spoken like a Mets fan! Maybe you do take them, but having season tickets for the Yankees all through their 90s+ dynasty I can tell you all titles are NOT equal, and winning a title with home grown talent the most rewarding. Same for the Giants and Eli.
So pass for me... as I said I thought I would be in the minority and this isn't a holier than thou thing... its not the same for me. Plus I loath Lebron's flopping... I have a hard enough time appreciating him because of that. Call me old fashioned
fishmike wrote:Vmart wrote:You take your championships anyway you can get them. The league is already tainted so might as well play by the rules. LeBron is the big reason it is tainted first Miami and super friends and returning to Cleveland after the cupboards have been restocked with top picks. It's obvious that LeBron has tainted the league. Everything about LeBron has been calculated and I wouldn't be to shocked if the NBA has been playing along with it too.
spoken like a Mets fan! Maybe you do take them, but having season tickets for the Yankees all through their 90s+ dynasty I can tell you all titles are NOT equal, and winning a title with home grown talent the most rewarding. Same for the Giants and Eli.So pass for me... as I said I thought I would be in the minority and this isn't a holier than thou thing... its not the same for me. Plus I loath Lebron's flopping... I have a hard enough time appreciating him because of that. Call me old fashioned
I agree with you that is why I was rooting for the Warriors to win not one number one overall pick but Bogut who was a castaway that any team could have gotten. Was thinking David Lee really would have come in handy for the Warriors especially once Bogut went down.
fishmike wrote:Plus I loath Lebron's flopping... I have a hard enough time appreciating him because of that. Call me old fashioned
Yeah i hear you bro but the game has changed and Euro ball floppers have won. I kinda wish Melo knew how to draw a foul with a little exaggerated head movement cause he legit gets the **** fouled out of him every time he goes to the basket. maybe Lebron could coach him & Zingis in this art. 
To me, the most realistic fantasy we can have is that KP maximizes his other-worldly talent and becomes an all-time great capable of winning multiple MVP awards and leading us to multiple titles. It will take a lot of luck, but it is possible.
Knixkik wrote:To me, the most realistic fantasy we can have is that KP maximizes his other-worldly talent and becomes an all-time great capable of winning multiple MVP awards and leading us to multiple titles. It will take a lot of luck, but it is possible.
I agree... and the chance of that is NOT one in a million. Its about as good a chance as ANY 20 year old player in the NBA has.
I would simply say this... what types of characteristics would you expect from that player in their professional infancy?
- mature beyond his years
- brings elements next seen or super rare
- unique blend of size, skill and athleticism to impact game on both ends
- dedicated to the game, the sport and getting better
- background that shows hard work, determination and continually excelling vs. peers
- great work ethic, gym rat
I mean who knows what KP becomes, but he has ALL the tools you would expect generational talent to have. 2nd season will be really telling... but he will also only be 21. Especially considering bigs mature late what KP has shown is promising. Unicorn promising.
I'm not hoping for Lebron at this point. I'm all in on KP and building our own Title team. We finally have a legit chance to build our own squad. It's WAY more fun to watch the Knicks make their own climb to the top.
fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:To me, the most realistic fantasy we can have is that KP maximizes his other-worldly talent and becomes an all-time great capable of winning multiple MVP awards and leading us to multiple titles. It will take a lot of luck, but it is possible.
I agree... and the chance of that is NOT one in a million. Its about as good a chance as ANY 20 year old player in the NBA has.I would simply say this... what types of characteristics would you expect from that player in their professional infancy?
- mature beyond his years
- brings elements next seen or super rare
- unique blend of size, skill and athleticism to impact game on both ends
- dedicated to the game, the sport and getting better
- background that shows hard work, determination and continually excelling vs. peers
- great work ethic, gym rat
I mean who knows what KP becomes, but he has ALL the tools you would expect generational talent to have. 2nd season will be really telling... but he will also only be 21. Especially considering bigs mature late what KP has shown is promising. Unicorn promising.
I would say for all of the reasons you mentioned, there is a significantly higher chance he becomes great as opposed to 99% of other 20 year old NBA players. The talent and characteristics he and Towns have, we haven't seen for awhile in rookies.
fishmike wrote:Vmart wrote:You take your championships anyway you can get them. The league is already tainted so might as well play by the rules. LeBron is the big reason it is tainted first Miami and super friends and returning to Cleveland after the cupboards have been restocked with top picks. It's obvious that LeBron has tainted the league. Everything about LeBron has been calculated and I wouldn't be to shocked if the NBA has been playing along with it too.
spoken like a Mets fan! Maybe you do take them, but having season tickets for the Yankees all through their 90s+ dynasty I can tell you all titles are NOT equal, and winning a title with home grown talent the most rewarding. Same for the Giants and Eli.So pass for me... as I said I thought I would be in the minority and this isn't a holier than thou thing... its not the same for me. Plus I loath Lebron's flopping... I have a hard enough time appreciating him because of that. Call me old fashioned
I'm torn on this question. I hear what Fish is saying, and feel the same way: Prefer a home-grown win to a gift chip from the King.
That said, he's the best basketball player of his generation, so why wouldn't we want him on our team? I mean, talent is what you put together to win chips. How is it any different because it's LBJ?
I think I'd learn to accept him pretty damn quick. There's a big difference between a King on another team, and one on yours. Besides, he may like NYC and want to grab a couple for us here. I could learn to love winning again. Plus, shyte it would get KP the post-season experience he needs for the homegrown redux of our dynasty.
Just sayin...
When you haven't raised a banner since 1973, Vmart is absolutely right, you take them however you can get them.
Look at Cleveland. They haven't won dik in 52 years, and went from burning Lebron's jersey, to cementing him as the GOAT.
Even if it's only for 1 or 2 years, you take your parade down the canyon of heroes no matter which way it comes.
Just because A-Rod, Texeira, and Matsui aren't home grown talents Jeter, Pettite, Rivera, and Posada doesn't take the luster off at all at the 2009 championship the Yankees won.
If Lebron wanted to win a ring in New York (he wouldn't), you'd welcome him with open arms as it'd be the closest thing we'd get to competing for real stakes.
Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:Vmart wrote:You take your championships anyway you can get them. The league is already tainted so might as well play by the rules. LeBron is the big reason it is tainted first Miami and super friends and returning to Cleveland after the cupboards have been restocked with top picks. It's obvious that LeBron has tainted the league. Everything about LeBron has been calculated and I wouldn't be to shocked if the NBA has been playing along with it too.
spoken like a Mets fan! Maybe you do take them, but having season tickets for the Yankees all through their 90s+ dynasty I can tell you all titles are NOT equal, and winning a title with home grown talent the most rewarding. Same for the Giants and Eli.So pass for me... as I said I thought I would be in the minority and this isn't a holier than thou thing... its not the same for me. Plus I loath Lebron's flopping... I have a hard enough time appreciating him because of that. Call me old fashioned
I agree with you that is why I was rooting for the Warriors to win not one number one overall pick but Bogut who was a castaway that any team could have gotten. Was thinking David Lee really would have come in handy for the Warriors especially once Bogut went down.
THey missed Boguts passing and DLee would have been a good piece to have. Bogut was traded for Monta Ellis. Not quite "castaway" value asset.
Bogut reminds me of Vlade Divac. Good passing center!
ChuckBuck wrote:If Lebron wanted to win a ring in New York (he wouldn't), you'd welcome him with open arms as it'd be the closest thing we'd get to competing for real stakes.
But then again I go back to my original query, that if he wants to compete with Jordan for the GOAT title and knowing that he can't be 6-0 in Finals appearances, would he consider be a modern day B-Ball Messiah who delivers chips wherever he goes. Plus he would get to team up with his boy Melo in NY and then possibly CP in LA. That would be quite a legacy.
fishmike wrote:I am actually worried about that... if he joined the Knicks after the first Cle departure I would call us lucky beyond belief. At this point do you really want Lebron to come here and win a chip? Someone mentioned signing MJ or Reggie and I feel exactly the same way.. I wouldn't want a title with one of those guys and I wouldn't want Lebron at this point. I am probably in the minority but I just wouldn't embrace that. It would really just be "the King" using the Knicks to show the world how wonderful he is
100% agree, it would be like this guy is going around the league helping his friends win rings, like some modern day NBA hero..I still despise the "DECISION" in a major way..
fishmike wrote:I am actually worried about that... if he joined the Knicks after the first Cle departure I would call us lucky beyond belief. At this point do you really want Lebron to come here and win a chip? Someone mentioned signing MJ or Reggie and I feel exactly the same way.. I wouldn't want a title with one of those guys and I wouldn't want Lebron at this point. I am probably in the minority but I just wouldn't embrace that. It would really just be "the King" using the Knicks to show the world how wonderful he is
I am in this camp (no mercenaries) but I can think of worse things that can happen to us.
ActionJackson wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If Lebron wanted to win a ring in New York (he wouldn't), you'd welcome him with open arms as it'd be the closest thing we'd get to competing for real stakes.
But then again I go back to my original query, that if he wants to compete with Jordan for the GOAT title and knowing that he can't be 6-0 in Finals appearances, would he consider be a modern day B-Ball Messiah who delivers chips wherever he goes. Plus he would get to team up with his boy Melo in NY and then possibly CP in LA. That would be quite a legacy.
Listen to the rumors.....Wade is an option, Rose is an option, Melo is boys with Bron and Paul. This sounds like the making of a super team. The question is, which team? Will Melo stay firm and try to do what Dwade did in Miami? Will Chris Paul do what Wade did and buildup the Clippers? Bosh injury hurts Miami's 2nd super team strategy.
ActionJackson wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:If Lebron wanted to win a ring in New York (he wouldn't), you'd welcome him with open arms as it'd be the closest thing we'd get to competing for real stakes.
But then again I go back to my original query, that if he wants to compete with Jordan for the GOAT title and knowing that he can't be 6-0 in Finals appearances, would he consider be a modern day B-Ball Messiah who delivers chips wherever he goes. Plus he would get to team up with his boy Melo in NY and then possibly CP in LA. That would be quite a legacy.
It'll be a 1 and 1a scenario for Lebron when compared to Jordan. You pretty much need to superteam in the 21st century(the Pistons the exception) to win a title, so for Lebron to reel off 6 consecutive Finals appearances and 3 titles is comparable to Jordan's 6 in 8 years.
Lebron will never be the GOAT due to the imperfect record, but he's definitely passed all his other contemporaries (Kobe, Duncan, Curry) due to his feats and unbelievable performances.
Hey, if he feels real generous and wants to help Melo to get out the cellar, be my guest!!!
