mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I just saw the news. Are people really defending this trade? Are people really defending Phil? Phil just continue to make dumb mistake after dumb mistake. This is the same old knick, no culture change at all. Phil gave up Lopez for a player who has a name and no game. They traded for a bum. This is said day yo.
1yr left on his deal! This isn't trading for Bargnani and throwing in your lottery pick to sweeten the deal!
so what ... expirings are worthless to us. why give away a valuable and tradable asset for crap? Steve Francis
This is different. Rose expiring sets us up to have more cap space than any other team. Francis expiring was irrelevant since we had Marbury, Curry, Crawford, Mo Taylor, Penny & Malik Rose & company for multiple additional years
This gives us the best chance to sign a young stud or draft a player to grow with KO for the next 15yrs. Or we keep slapping lipstick on the pig and miss the playoffs for another decade+
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I just saw the news. Are people really defending this trade? Are people really defending Phil? Phil just continue to make dumb mistake after dumb mistake. This is the same old knick, no culture change at all. Phil gave up Lopez for a player who has a name and no game. They traded for a bum. This is said day yo.
1yr left on his deal! This isn't trading for Bargnani and throwing in your lottery pick to sweeten the deal!
so what ... expirings are worthless to us. why give away a valuable and tradable asset for crap? Steve Francis
This is different. Rose expiring sets us up to have more cap space than any other team. Francis expiring was irrelevant since we had Marbury, Curry, Crawford, Mo Taylor, Penny & Malik Rose & company for multiple additional years
why? we did not need to take on his contract. How did we get more cap space? by giving up a very reasonable lopez contract? we could have traded that easily for real value .... c'mon guys ... no way to spin this
BRIGGS wrote:Shaun Livingston was all b ut done as well. Looks pretty good now.
They key with Rose--keep him under 30 minutes and play him 70-75 games--thats it.We only have like 6 guys on the roster so were going top need to fill it out. If we want max cap space we need to sign a lot of 1 year deals and or longer term UDFA that stay under 1mm.
Exactly plenty of guys were deemed to be finished and were revived in a different role.
Please sign Lin. Let JH work the magic
I have had a great time laughing about how great Lopez's deal is in this thread given that there were multiple threads in here talking about how he sucks and the contract is horrible. I recall getting abused several times for even suggesting the contract wasn't that bad. Guess Lopez is was flavor of the month. I clearly missed the memo.
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Shaun Livingston was all b ut done as well. Looks pretty good now.
They key with Rose--keep him under 30 minutes and play him 70-75 games--thats it.We only have like 6 guys on the roster so were going top need to fill it out. If we want max cap space we need to sign a lot of 1 year deals and or longer term UDFA that stay under 1mm.
and honestly Livington's injury was far worse.... the one thing about this is Rose's age. 27 is young.Its a calculated risk and your hedge is a total roster overhaul next year. I cant really react to much as this is clearly the start of a busy offseason. Really this comes down to who's next?
Yea I can't believe he is still only 27! Sometimes guys need a few seasons to start resembling their old self after a major injury.
Last year was rough on everyone in Chicago under Hoiberg and he wasn't getting along with Butler but he came on late. He's a few years removed from the injury now and will be playing for his last significant deal.
This gamble can really pay dividends. If not then we start fresh next year with infinite capspace and our pick!
PhilinLA wrote:I'm not crazy about this move. I wanted to either keep Rolo or only move him for a high upside younger player to go with KP. That said, glad Jose is gone, lock stock and barrel without having to be stretched. I'm also glad we're not dipping our toes in the max for mediocre PG market this year. We clearly need more players and I wouldn't be surprised if we some how end up with two or even three picks tomorrow.Also need a 2 and another 5. How does everyone feel about Derozan?
We have our pick next year and most likely it will be a higher pick than we'd get back for Lopez even making the playoffs
SwishAndDish13 wrote:I have had a great time laughing about how great Lopez's deal is in this thread given that there were multiple threads in here talking about how he sucks and the contract is horrible. I recall getting abused several times for even suggesting the contract wasn't that bad. Guess Lopez is was flavor of the month. I clearly missed the memo.
i admit i didnt like his signing at first. However once he got comfortable he did well and helped KP too even though KP is a beast on his own. I simply didnt like the return. We needed a another piece/pick coming back in the deal
This is the best move Phil has made. we the Knicks will have the most cap space next year also can make a run at Durant or derozen. If we can't get top Teir this year, next year make a serious run at Westbrook . Phil is cleaning up the mess left by everyone else to build a serious empire.
Also how long is Lopez going to last with KP as the future center. Honestly if rose works out its gravy
KP
Melo
Durant
Who cares
Rose
Wow and still cap flexibility if rose doesn't work out for Westbrook or curry
Or what if Lebron opts out to help melo win a chip. Now that his goal in shithole Cleveland is over.
KP
Melo
Lebron
Who cares
Rose
KP is like curry he is going to revolutionize the nba, name another 7foot 3 who can do what KP dose dude is going to be the face of the nba in a few years
The difference between Livingston and Rose, so far, in dealing with injury is that Livingston has changed his style of play, plays reduced minutes, and is basically a seventh man on a good team. Every time Rose has come back from an injury, he's jumped right in and proclaimed himself just as able as the pre-injury Rose . . . and then he's gotten injured. Maybe it was necessity for Livingston but for whatever reasons, he's been way, way smarter about his injuries, his career, and his playing style than Rose.
fishmike wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I just saw the news. Are people really defending this trade? Are people really defending Phil? Phil just continue to make dumb mistake after dumb mistake. This is the same old knick, no culture change at all. Phil gave up Lopez for a player who has a name and no game. They traded for a bum. This is said day yo.
This is actually good news! It shows that Phil is actually working with his Head Coach in trying to put a team together that he can EXCEL with. You have to understand the signals this is sending about how Phil is approaching this team for the present and future. He sold RoLo HIGH, and got a PG for his coach with no long term detriment to the team. If Rose doesn't work out the team has MASSIVE cap space next summer. For now this might help to attract FA's and we still have our cap space to sign top FA's. It at least shows that the Knicks are going to be aggressive in trying to improve the team.
This made me laugh out loud. You are not serious? I think you are smarter than this. This is a bad move. He sold Lopez low when he had vlue. He brought back the worst starting PG in the NBA. Maybe the worst PG in the nba. The knicks could have gotten way more for Lopez and Grant if all they wanted was cap space.
I am not a man who uses cuss words but this had me thinking of some and then asking for forgiveness. I don't take sports too serious but this has really gotten to me. This is worse than the Bargnani trade!
simple question. If Rose plays like he did once the mask came off this is a decent trade, at worst a lateral move. The downside is obvious... physically history tells us he's a ticking time bomb. He's also young, and coming off a strong finish. The downside is the Knicks wasted a good rotation player and prospect many of us (myself included)liked on a one year bust that could even hurt chemistry. If that is the case can they recover? Yes. Do they lose a pick? No, so this is NOTHING like the Bargs trade.So at worst is a minor setback. No franchise players or all stars were lost. No future payments pending. No picks lost to hurt us later.
At glance it looks lateral. Rose plays 68 games, puts up 18ppg, 5assist and shoots 48% playing well under Jeff. His scoring wins us some games, his presence frees things up late for Melo and KP, he makes the Knicks better as guard was so bad last year. Remember Jeff has roster input. Rose isnt a Knick if Jeff doesnt want him here.
Then there is this. God forbid at 27 years old he's physically ok. He is a very very hard working player. There is a chance the Knicks get an all star guard for spare parts. What is that chance? I dont know... 1-5? 1-10? If your an angry Knick fan its 1-100000. If you are a bull fan is even money. Let me just say Bull fans are not happy. At a rate of about 80% hating it and 20% acccepting it. The think the Knicks got Derrick Rose for trash. Just a little perspective. Dont believe me? Go read the thread on the Bull's forum on realgm that had 25 pages 20 minutes after the trade was announced
Exactly and that's exactly how I'd expect them to feel! It's not just cos he's a hometown hero. Marbury was a hometown hero too!
With rose look at the bigger picture CAP SPACE again if he works out its gravy. KP is the future center and fits horneys system like a glove at the 5
We got Derrick rose and gained more cap space. Why are we complaining
What about Willy Hernangomez?
mreinman wrote:pjax may be worse than isiah and layden combined ... WTF???He takes our valuable/tradable asset and gets us freakin Rose (who has zero / negative value)?
spin doctors ... have at it
No spin from me. I expressed my love for a Calderon/Lopez for Rose deal in the original Rose trade thread
StarksEwing1 wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:I have had a great time laughing about how great Lopez's deal is in this thread given that there were multiple threads in here talking about how he sucks and the contract is horrible. I recall getting abused several times for even suggesting the contract wasn't that bad. Guess Lopez is was flavor of the month. I clearly missed the memo.
i admit i didnt like his signing at first. However once he got comfortable he did well and helped KP too even though KP is a beast on his own. I simply didnt like the return. We needed a another piece/pick coming back in the deal
All good. So much anger in here I needed to lighten it up. I liked the Lopez move and contract from jump street but I am OK with making some moves to achieve better roster balance. While I like what Lopez brought he always had plenty of flaws and some complete stinker games, which facilitated the hate threads. The NBA has moved to a perimeter oriented game and I am happy we shifted some dollars there. Even if we part ways at least we can use it there. As much as I liked RoLo,what he brought is replacable. We had very limited PG options in FA and would have had to commit many yrs and monster dollars to make something happen there. I also didn't see a huge market for RoLo. Unless they change the way they call the game there isn't as big of a demand for that type of player.
Unrelated but KP will need to take a big step on the defensive end this yr. Hopefully he does. We shouldn't be relying on RoLo there who was a good but not great rim protector.
mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I just saw the news. Are people really defending this trade? Are people really defending Phil? Phil just continue to make dumb mistake after dumb mistake. This is the same old knick, no culture change at all. Phil gave up Lopez for a player who has a name and no game. They traded for a bum. This is said day yo.
1yr left on his deal! This isn't trading for Bargnani and throwing in your lottery pick to sweeten the deal!
so what ... expirings are worthless to us. why give away a valuable and tradable asset for crap? Steve Francis
This is different. Rose expiring sets us up to have more cap space than any other team. Francis expiring was irrelevant since we had Marbury, Curry, Crawford, Mo Taylor, Penny & Malik Rose & company for multiple additional years
why? we did not need to take on his contract. How did we get more cap space? by giving up a very reasonable lopez contract? we could have traded that easily for real value .... c'mon guys ... no way to spin this
Like we traded Tyson's contract for the immortal Calderon?
gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I just saw the news. Are people really defending this trade? Are people really defending Phil? Phil just continue to make dumb mistake after dumb mistake. This is the same old knick, no culture change at all. Phil gave up Lopez for a player who has a name and no game. They traded for a bum. This is said day yo.
1yr left on his deal! This isn't trading for Bargnani and throwing in your lottery pick to sweeten the deal!
so what ... expirings are worthless to us. why give away a valuable and tradable asset for crap? Steve Francis
This is different. Rose expiring sets us up to have more cap space than any other team. Francis expiring was irrelevant since we had Marbury, Curry, Crawford, Mo Taylor, Penny & Malik Rose & company for multiple additional years
why? we did not need to take on his contract. How did we get more cap space? by giving up a very reasonable lopez contract? we could have traded that easily for real value .... c'mon guys ... no way to spin this
Like we traded Tyson's contract for the immortal Calderon?
Tyson hasn't been much better. At least he hasn't gotten sick. Better weather in Phoenix.
Again if your Durant who would you rather have Jose or rose the answer is easy esp know wing Westbrook is history for okc after next year and might end up on the Knicks after next year anyway
NumberTwoPencil wrote:The difference between Livingston and Rose, so far, in dealing with injury is that Livingston has changed his style of play, plays reduced minutes, and is basically a seventh man on a good team. Every time Rose has come back from an injury, he's jumped right in and proclaimed himself just as able as the pre-injury Rose . . . and then he's gotten injured. Maybe it was necessity for Livingston but for whatever reasons, he's been way, way smarter about his injuries, his career, and his playing style than Rose.
Livingston was never the same caliber of Player as Rose. I mean we are talking about a former MVP and stud capillaries Memphis guard picked #1. Even our beloved Melo never sniffed an MVP.
No question Rose has to adapt and be Zen'd mentally. The transition was probably easier for Livingston since he was always a pass first high IQ PG.
Melo bought in a good portion of last season no reason why Rose can't do the same as he matures
alot of offseason left but your beloved knicks have to sign a starting sg and center. and also sign roster spots 6-9. and they need to be quality based on the injury hsitory of rose and recently melo. signing noah or dwight will complete the injury prone trifecta. so you basically need almost 3-4 starter quality players off the bench in addition to 2 starters.
the nuts and bolts to me is that phil wasted the last 2 years on the triangle. now he is just treading water for a year which may backfire bc the real #1 priority for the team shoukd be getti g a high a pick as possible to help porzingis bulding the team...and this move could hurt that. and after 3 full seasons, its really no different than what walsh did...all in for 2010...now its 2017. melo made the choice but he really wasted 3 years of his prime and now it might be 4.
