Kemet wrote:
Face the truth once in ur life .. we just made another backward move keeping us as a 32 win or less team next season, while helping the Butler Chicago Bulls make the playoff next season without ball-hogger Rose.
Noah n Gasol may want to resign now that the so-called franchise player is gone.
how is he a ball hog when there are 2 guys on his team that took just as many shots as he did? (butler and gasol)
nyk4ever wrote:CrushAlot wrote:
man gasol would fit here perfectly as a big man in the kind of offense that hornacek wants to run. he would also be a fantastic guy to mentor kp - gasol has been around a long time and seen a lot of playoff success. i think we could probably get him at SOMEWHAT of a discount, too.
Pau wants to win know
I predict GS on a short deal
Welcome here though in my book (if cap friendly)
newyorknewyork wrote:djsunyc wrote:i just looked at rose's numbers and im 100% convinced this is a pure roll of the dice deal with no expectations. there is no baskeball reason to make a move for him. this was for dumping lopez contract. now if phil signs someone like howard or pau or noah for the same amount for multiple years, then everyone should really be concerned considering the health and or age of those players. anyone talking about rose as a player is talking completely on emotion.
We will see who they go after this off season come FA. I could see them zeroing in more on 2017. If we could end up with Paul(Who takes a discount to try and win) Olapido and Ibaka to pair with Melo and KP going into his 3rd yr....
I could see Thibbs turning Olapido into a real beast though and them locking him up.
I hope we are zeroing in on 2017. If. It not then it's panic mode all over again which would be typical Knicks. Zero in on 2017 and maybe add a Pau, Noah or Hill on fair deals. We are going to need these bugs if we go after Westbrook and company. Those guys might want to come hear and make some. Kiss this year.
gunsnewing wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Holy crap - Getting an injury waiting to happen for a pretty good center on a GREAT contract in Lopez and giving up our 1st round pick from last year?
We get nothing back but a 2nd? Wow, bend over Phil.We must be looking to sign someone big in FA or this is (another) disaster waiting to happen.
That is the only thing I can think of..and I'm also thinking about FAs next year, but...
Rose has 1 year left...what do you do with him next year if he has a decent but not great season. You know the guy will want a max contract. Maybe you get the #8 seed, lose to the Cavs in rnd 1, earn a midrange #1 draft pick, and then you have to debate over signing an injury prone player to a big contract.
Rose is not even a facilitator as a PG.
Hope I get proven wrong, but this does not seem like a wise trade at this point.
If Rose has a decent year then perfect we don't have to put all our eggs in Westbrook's basket
We will always be wary of Rose's injury history and his proclivity for dragging out his recovery time. Rose will not play with any discomfort, citing his obligation to his family. Can't see re-signing him. Didn't see signing him in the first place.
Chandler wrote:fitzfarm wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Team went from Calderon to Rose. Huge upgrade even if Rose is no longer the player he once was.
The way the Knicks need Rose to play, and how Bulls expected him to, are worlds apart.In NY Rose has to set the table, push the ball and try to drive into the paint when there are openings. The number one option is Melo, always will be. In all of the years Rose played in CHI, he never had a player of Melo's scoring skill. Then we have KP. Based on last year, we have already established that Porzingis and Melo are going to be our two top guys.
Rose's role will be same as Jose, only he will be able to do more within it, due to his higher skill level.
Whats best is we only made a 1 year investment here, and have opened up playing time for KP at his best position on offense - 5 spot. Hornachek did wonders with Bledsoe, Dragic and Thomas. He could do something with Rose.
Give this a chance - and we are not a finished product. From my calculations we still have 30$M in capspace to sign a 5 and 2. Or go after Durant/DeRozan.
Agreed 100 percent . and who would you rather have giving KP the ball rose or Jose . That answer is simple.
Also we are talking about dumping multi year contracts for 1 year of rose and more cap space then before. Esp next year
Again KP is the future 5 not Lopez who sat out how many 4th quarters cause the nba is all speed now
Agree with all of the above. Also consider this may involve KP at 5 which might be better offense and melo at 4 where he might be better than as a 3
Rolo is great and played better than many expected. Good for us
KP also played better than expected. Again good for us
My only gripe is I still feel we deserved more in return. That's what he big question. Were there other buyers and was this the deal that was needed or did we overpay
Well the flexibility with more cap space this year as well as next year with the upgrade at pg it's really a win win plus rolo was going to be fazed out in hornys system
KP is going to start at the 5 this year.
fitzfarm wrote:Chandler wrote:fitzfarm wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Team went from Calderon to Rose. Huge upgrade even if Rose is no longer the player he once was.
The way the Knicks need Rose to play, and how Bulls expected him to, are worlds apart.In NY Rose has to set the table, push the ball and try to drive into the paint when there are openings. The number one option is Melo, always will be. In all of the years Rose played in CHI, he never had a player of Melo's scoring skill. Then we have KP. Based on last year, we have already established that Porzingis and Melo are going to be our two top guys.
Rose's role will be same as Jose, only he will be able to do more within it, due to his higher skill level.
Whats best is we only made a 1 year investment here, and have opened up playing time for KP at his best position on offense - 5 spot. Hornachek did wonders with Bledsoe, Dragic and Thomas. He could do something with Rose.
Give this a chance - and we are not a finished product. From my calculations we still have 30$M in capspace to sign a 5 and 2. Or go after Durant/DeRozan.
Agreed 100 percent . and who would you rather have giving KP the ball rose or Jose . That answer is simple.
Also we are talking about dumping multi year contracts for 1 year of rose and more cap space then before. Esp next year
Again KP is the future 5 not Lopez who sat out how many 4th quarters cause the nba is all speed now
Agree with all of the above. Also consider this may involve KP at 5 which might be better offense and melo at 4 where he might be better than as a 3
Rolo is great and played better than many expected. Good for us
KP also played better than expected. Again good for us
My only gripe is I still feel we deserved more in return. That's what he big question. Were there other buyers and was this the deal that was needed or did we overpay
Well the flexibility with more cap space this year as well as next year with the upgrade at pg it's really a win win plus rolo was going to be fazed out in hornys system
KP is going to start at the 5 this year.
If KP is the 5, is Melo the starting 4 or 3? Or are we still waiting for another shoe to drop?
CrushAlot wrote:Butler's instagram message to Rose,
jimmybutlerMy point guard, my brother: you taught me so much since I came into this league as a 21 year old kid from Marquette. For me, coming to Chicago to play and learn from you, an MVP, was eye-opening. You helped shape me into the player I am today. Helped teach me the work ethic needed to excel in this league. You are a leader, thru and thru. Always a supportive teammate and friend. I'll always be thankful for the opportunity I had to play alongside you each night and I know you're going to continue to be the great player and leader you were in Chicago for years to come.
Def paints Rose as a terrible teammate!
fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Butler's instagram message to Rose,
jimmybutlerMy point guard, my brother: you taught me so much since I came into this league as a 21 year old kid from Marquette. For me, coming to Chicago to play and learn from you, an MVP, was eye-opening. You helped shape me into the player I am today. Helped teach me the work ethic needed to excel in this league. You are a leader, thru and thru. Always a supportive teammate and friend. I'll always be thankful for the opportunity I had to play alongside you each night and I know you're going to continue to be the great player and leader you were in Chicago for years to come.
Def paints Rose as a terrible teammate!
damn! and all those reports that they did not get along 
The best thing to come from this trade would be if it tricks Batum into coming. I would say Durant but he plays with a better and healthy version of Rose, Westbrook.
nixluva wrote:shinmen wrote:Pleaaase Nooooo! I Hate this trade.The knicks lost a promising rookie and will miss terribly Lopez. He was the best screen setter of the team, he blocked on rebounds, provided good defense and proved he could score a bit.
He helped KP a lot.
At best, Rose will break down in January and we will be a lottery team with a pick.
At worst, he'll be healthy, command a max and break down the day after. Amare all over again.
We got bamboozled AGAIN.
No one got bamboozeled! As was explained earlier, this is a move with High Reward and low Risk. If things implode, Rose comes off the books and we have our pick next year as well. So we would have plenty of cap space in a great Free Agent class. There isn't much downside for the Knicks.The big thing is that Hornacek is having a MASSIVE impact on the construction of this team. If anyone was wondering how Phil would work with his coach, this pretty much tells you he's gonna give him all the support he can to make Hornacek's vision come true. Doesn't seem like Phil has resisted what Horny is looking to do.
I'm having a difficult time seeing the acquisition of Rose as "visionary". Please help me.
yellowboy90 wrote:The best thing to come from this trade would be if it tricks Batum into coming. I would say Durant but he plays with a better and healthy version of Rose, Westbrook.
For all we know there is already an agent promise in place with players x,y or z. Maybe somehow this makes more sense tomorrow? Its not a deal I make, I dont like it but the Bargs trade? This is a gamble for sure but again... Knick fans are the only ones saying this deal is bad
DrAlphaeus wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Chandler wrote:fitzfarm wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Team went from Calderon to Rose. Huge upgrade even if Rose is no longer the player he once was.
The way the Knicks need Rose to play, and how Bulls expected him to, are worlds apart.In NY Rose has to set the table, push the ball and try to drive into the paint when there are openings. The number one option is Melo, always will be. In all of the years Rose played in CHI, he never had a player of Melo's scoring skill. Then we have KP. Based on last year, we have already established that Porzingis and Melo are going to be our two top guys.
Rose's role will be same as Jose, only he will be able to do more within it, due to his higher skill level.
Whats best is we only made a 1 year investment here, and have opened up playing time for KP at his best position on offense - 5 spot. Hornachek did wonders with Bledsoe, Dragic and Thomas. He could do something with Rose.
Give this a chance - and we are not a finished product. From my calculations we still have 30$M in capspace to sign a 5 and 2. Or go after Durant/DeRozan.
Agreed 100 percent . and who would you rather have giving KP the ball rose or Jose . That answer is simple.
Also we are talking about dumping multi year contracts for 1 year of rose and more cap space then before. Esp next year
Again KP is the future 5 not Lopez who sat out how many 4th quarters cause the nba is all speed now
Agree with all of the above. Also consider this may involve KP at 5 which might be better offense and melo at 4 where he might be better than as a 3
Rolo is great and played better than many expected. Good for us
KP also played better than expected. Again good for us
My only gripe is I still feel we deserved more in return. That's what he big question. Were there other buyers and was this the deal that was needed or did we overpay
Well the flexibility with more cap space this year as well as next year with the upgrade at pg it's really a win win plus rolo was going to be fazed out in hornys system
KP is going to start at the 5 this year.
If KP is the 5, is Melo the starting 4 or 3? Or are we still waiting for another shoe to drop?
My guess is melo is back to 4 much more often. Don't know who the 3 or 2 is???
yellowboy90 wrote:The best thing to come from this trade would be if it tricks Batum into coming. I would say Durant but he plays with a better and healthy version of Rose, Westbrook.
Ironic that after countless threads and posts you mention a player that has been to injured to contribute to his team in the playoffs the last 2 seasons.
gunsnewing wrote:franco12 wrote:nixluva wrote:franco12 wrote:VCoug wrote:Fucking terrible trade. How do you give up a good center on a GREAT contract and a decent young PG on his rookie deal for Rose? A guy who hasn't made a single positive contribution on the court since 2011?!?! If we were that desperate for cap space next summer we couldn't have found some team to trade Lopez to where'd we get actual assets back? Or, why didn't we just not sign him last year? What the fuck are we doing? Is there any semblance of a plan?
had to stop reading this thread with your post - I agree 100000000%
Trading Rolo = a complete 360 on what we've worked on for the last 2 years. What guarantee do we have that Phil is going to get it right now?
I'm not sure I understand your thought process. The point is to make moves when you have something of value. RoLo played very well and so we used him to get Rose on a one year deal. Not only did we improve the balance of the team but there's no real long term risk involved. This move for Rose could also lead to signing another top FA this summer and putting together a really good team. Remember we still have the ability to make a big play in FA. This is just the beginning of the process!!!
I'm willing to bet we could have traded Rolo to Boston for a number 1 pick and nothing more. And kept Grant and gotten similar production from him that we'll get from Rose - and I'm factoring in we may only get 40 games if we're lucky from Rose, and Grant could likely go 70+.
No way Boston wants Love or Melo not Lopez. Certainly not for their #1 pick!
to clarify- I don't mean Boston would give us the top pick they have this year - just a first rounder. Heck, if we're looking to clear salary, trade him for a 2nd rounder and keep Grant!
Chandler wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Chandler wrote:fitzfarm wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Team went from Calderon to Rose. Huge upgrade even if Rose is no longer the player he once was.
The way the Knicks need Rose to play, and how Bulls expected him to, are worlds apart.In NY Rose has to set the table, push the ball and try to drive into the paint when there are openings. The number one option is Melo, always will be. In all of the years Rose played in CHI, he never had a player of Melo's scoring skill. Then we have KP. Based on last year, we have already established that Porzingis and Melo are going to be our two top guys.
Rose's role will be same as Jose, only he will be able to do more within it, due to his higher skill level.
Whats best is we only made a 1 year investment here, and have opened up playing time for KP at his best position on offense - 5 spot. Hornachek did wonders with Bledsoe, Dragic and Thomas. He could do something with Rose.
Give this a chance - and we are not a finished product. From my calculations we still have 30$M in capspace to sign a 5 and 2. Or go after Durant/DeRozan.
Agreed 100 percent . and who would you rather have giving KP the ball rose or Jose . That answer is simple.
Also we are talking about dumping multi year contracts for 1 year of rose and more cap space then before. Esp next year
Again KP is the future 5 not Lopez who sat out how many 4th quarters cause the nba is all speed now
Agree with all of the above. Also consider this may involve KP at 5 which might be better offense and melo at 4 where he might be better than as a 3
Rolo is great and played better than many expected. Good for us
KP also played better than expected. Again good for us
My only gripe is I still feel we deserved more in return. That's what he big question. Were there other buyers and was this the deal that was needed or did we overpay
Well the flexibility with more cap space this year as well as next year with the upgrade at pg it's really a win win plus rolo was going to be fazed out in hornys system
KP is going to start at the 5 this year.
If KP is the 5, is Melo the starting 4 or 3? Or are we still waiting for another shoe to drop?
My guess is melo is back to 4 much more often. Don't know who the 3 or 2 is???
Best case
Durant and yes we have the money for max
Second derozen
3rd add a bunch of one contracts maybe bring back Williams
You know Phil is going to try to hit a home run with top free agents
Really we lost Lopez for rose who's the better player, not even debatable.
People need to chill we even gained more cap space and added rose. And If anyone knows hornys system Lopez didn't have a spot.
We can get Durant and still make a serious run at Westbrook next year .
Keep ignoring the media (poison) Phil your doing what no one could do which is build a real team in ny . Rome was not built over night.
Latest posting and tosting article blasting the move just shows how bad the Ny media and basketball knowledge in the media is. On that article, who cares if we resign lance or Gallo those guys are a dime a dozen.
Phil and horny already said they are looking to land a big fish in free agency adding rose only intrigues top free agents. Lopez Gallo and lance do not .
Phil to Durant " let's form the greatest front court in nyc basketball history if rose works out great if not we have all the money to bring over Westbrook who all but assures us a chip. And the fame of bringing nyc its first chip since the 70's.
fishmike wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:The best thing to come from this trade would be if it tricks Batum into coming. I would say Durant but he plays with a better and healthy version of Rose, Westbrook.
For all we know there is already an agent promise in place with players x,y or z. Maybe somehow this makes more sense tomorrow? Its not a deal I make, I dont like it but the Bargs trade? This is a gamble for sure but again... Knick fans are the only ones saying this deal is bad
Unfortunately X,Y, or Z might be Evan Turner, Eric Gordan, and the corpse of Pau Gasol. I loved Lopez but I would've been okay with trading him for good talent/assets. I liked Grant but would've been okay with trading him for talent/assets. It's smart to dump Calderon but not if you could have gotten a 1st if he was not in the deal.
My main problem is that it is the same story,(minus TH/JG trade) a misjudgement of how valuable your current player in and the illogical thinking that a player will look better in this environment.
nyk4ever wrote:CrushAlot wrote:
man gasol would fit here perfectly as a big man in the kind of offense that hornacek wants to run. he would also be a fantastic guy to mentor kp - gasol has been around a long time and seen a lot of playoff success. i think we could probably get him at SOMEWHAT of a discount, too.
Ha,Ha, Ha. I laugh at the notion of a player giving "Somewhat of a discount".
Sangfroid wrote:nixluva wrote:shinmen wrote:Pleaaase Nooooo! I Hate this trade.The knicks lost a promising rookie and will miss terribly Lopez. He was the best screen setter of the team, he blocked on rebounds, provided good defense and proved he could score a bit.
He helped KP a lot.
At best, Rose will break down in January and we will be a lottery team with a pick.
At worst, he'll be healthy, command a max and break down the day after. Amare all over again.
We got bamboozled AGAIN.
No one got bamboozeled! As was explained earlier, this is a move with High Reward and low Risk. If things implode, Rose comes off the books and we have our pick next year as well. So we would have plenty of cap space in a great Free Agent class. There isn't much downside for the Knicks.The big thing is that Hornacek is having a MASSIVE impact on the construction of this team. If anyone was wondering how Phil would work with his coach, this pretty much tells you he's gonna give him all the support he can to make Hornacek's vision come true. Doesn't seem like Phil has resisted what Horny is looking to do.
I'm having a difficult time seeing the acquisition of Rose as "visionary". Please help me.
No one can help you! Apparently you think this is all the Knicks will do this summer. You're not gonna wait to see the full summer of moves play out before pissing on this? Hornacek and Phil are not just wildly making deals with no plan for how they want to build the roster. You think they just woke up and decided to make this deal with no idea of what they would do next?
I dont recall but did Frye start at 5 or 4 for Hornachek Suns teams?
If 5, will not shock me if he views Porzingis as a 5. Would spread the floor incredibly well. Even D'Antoni was raving about Porzingis, saying kid would make a marvelous mismatch 5. Longterm that is where he needs to play, I feel. Just do not know if he can handle it right away full time.
fishmike wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:The best thing to come from this trade would be if it tricks Batum into coming. I would say Durant but he plays with a better and healthy version of Rose, Westbrook.
For all we know there is already an agent promise in place with players x,y or z. Maybe somehow this makes more sense tomorrow? Its not a deal I make, I dont like it but the Bargs trade? This is a gamble for sure but again... Knick fans are the only ones saying this deal is bad
Unless Grant is going to be an up and coming NBA starter....I don't see the gamble. If anything, I think Chicago could've gotten s better deal. Rolo and Grant are replaceable. Jose shouldn't be in the league. Rolo has reached his peak....I don't see the gamble.
