Knicks · These are the sorts of contracts we'll see: Wizards set to offer Noah 4yr/$120M (page 5)
Knixkik wrote:A couple of people have already refuted the Noah being offered the max by washington. Looks like a bogus rumor. I still expect him to get a major contract offer (probably by us) but not max.
I sort of think it was thrown out by his agent to make sure the Knicks don't low ball him.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba...
Wizards lead four-team race for Joakim Noah in NBA free agency, sources say
June 24, 2016 4:00pm EDTJune 24, 2016 1:07pm EDT
Joakim Noah missed time last season with a shoulder injury. Not expected to re-sign with the Bulls, the Wizards and Knicks are leading suitors.
The summer of crazy spending in the NBA is only days away and it is likely to start in Washington. But we’re not talking about the Wizards’ pursuit of Kevin Durant, which most observers regard as slightly delusional.
According to sources, the Wiz are locked in on making a major offer to Joakim Noah. The Wizards are said to be willing to offer Noah, coming off shoulder surgery that KO’d him in January, a full maximum contract. His deal would start at $26.6 million and reach nearly $120 million over four seasons.
Yeah, it’ll be that kind of crazy money for the soon-to-be former Chicago Bull.
The Wizards are prepared to go all out for the 2014 NBA Defensive Player of the Year because they have glaring holes up front and already are anticipating having to win an intense bidding war.
Three other teams — the Knicks, Timberwolves and Bucks — are also planning to make substantial offers to Noah, who played only 29 games last season before suffering a shoulder injury. If the Bulls come calling, he probably won’t even take their call. He has no intentions of re-signing in Chicago and is ready to move on, according to a source.
The Wizards’ main competition when free agency starts July 1 will be from the Knicks. Newly acquired Derrick Rose is close to Noah and some observers see that putting Phil Jackson in the lead. The Knicks can also offer Noah a starting job, having sent Robin Lopez as part of the package to the Bulls in the Rose trade and creating a vacancy at center.
Noah has ties to New York — he spent most of his high school days at Brooklyn’s Poly Prep — and is said to want to come to the Big Apple. He’d be an automatic Garden favorite with his relentless hustle and fiery demeanor.
Money-wise, the Knicks will have around $30 million to spend on free agents. They’ll first try to get Durant, as much as they look like long shots, with Oklahoma City the favorites to retain the summer’s top free agent. If Durant moves, Golden State has the wherewithal and interest to bring him in as a significant upgrade over restricted FA Harrison Barnes, who fizzled in the Finals. The way the Warriors collapsed at the end of Game 7 against Cleveland in the Finals, there’s a need for Durant’s scoring, even for a team that won a record 73 games.
As for Noah, Jackson might not be willing to match Washington’s max-deal offer for a player who also had knee surgery in the 2014 offseason. But the Wizards can’t reinvest in Nene, approaching his 34th birthday and missing 133 games since 2011.
So this will be an intense competition. Several NBA GMs think that Noah could be more heavily recruited than the other top bigs who will go on the open market. Dwight Howard will scare away some teams with his character issues. He is said to want the Knicks, but more than they want him. Pau Gasol is a Jackson favorite who turned down a chance in 2014 to be reunited with his former Lakers coach and headed to Chicago instead. If Noah takes Washington’s max money, Jackson might have to turn to Gasol, who turns 36 on July 6.
“If teams are convinced Noah is healthy, he will get a max deal, and Washington is panicking because Nene is done and they didn’t make the playoffs last season,’’ said one GM. “They’ll overpay for Noah — they always do.’’
The Wiz are prepared to write some massive checks as the league’s salary cap explodes from $70 million this season to $94 million for 2016-17. They waited too long to get Bradley Beal at a reasonable price, so now they’ll have to overpay to retain their top free agent. Beal could command $22 million as a starting salary in a max deal, despite suffering from recurring stress injuries to his right fibula during his first four seasons.
If the Wiz do make an offer to Noah that more than doubles the five-year, $60 million that is about to expire, it could end Minnesota’s pursuit of one of Tom Thibodeau’s favorite players.
Thibodeau has Noah atop his free-agent board and hopes he can land the player who brought him leadership on and off the floor, along with his trademark high intensity. But even if a non-scoring threat like Noah finished fourth in the MVP in 2014 for Thibodeau, Minnesota probably isn’t willing to break the bank for a player who has missed 94 games in the last five seasons, including the final 43 last year.
Noah also has a big fan in Jason Kidd, who has soured on Greg Monroe, only one season into a deal that has two seasons to run. The Bucks tried to trade him in recent days, but the Celtics and other teams had no interest.
Kidd has told associates he thinks Noah’s toughness and experience will greatly help his young rising stars, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Jabari Parker. He’ll have to convince Noah, though, that he can be happy relocating to a small market.
The Bucks are looking to bounce back from a disastrous season after they made the playoffs in 2015. As Kidd sees it, Noah’s addition would be perfect as the Bucks try to live up to their “Own the Future’’ marketing campaign.
With what Noah is about to get, he’ll own the future, too.
WASHINGTON WIZARDS TEAM SALARIES. 2016-17 SEASON
PLAYER 2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21 2021-22
John Wall $16,957,900 $18,063,850 $19,169,800
Marcin Gortat $12,000,000 $12,782,609 $13,565,218
Bradley Beal $7,471,412
Markieff Morris $7,400,000 $8,000,000 $8,600,000
Otto Porter $5,893,981 $7,732,904
Drew Gooden $3,547,000
Martell Webster $2,500,000* (QO)
Kelly Oubre $2,006,640 $2,093,040 $3,208,630 $4,485,665
Jarell Eddie $980,431 $1,251,245
TOTALS $58,757,364 $49,923,648 $44,543,648 $4,485,665 $0 $0
sidsanders wrote:http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington...
Not that this is going to change sports fans immediately reacting to every tweet like it's gospel truth or anything....
sidsanders wrote:http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington...
The original quote is from a Mitch Lawerence story.
Knickoftime wrote:If you follow the twitter feed the guy's next tweet is about how he doesn't believe the story at all.sidsanders wrote:http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington...Not that this is going to change sports fans immediately reacting to every tweet like it's gospel truth or anything....
CrushAlot wrote:Knickoftime wrote:If you follow the twitter feed the guy's next tweet is about how he doesn't believe the story at all.sidsanders wrote:http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington...Not that this is going to change sports fans immediately reacting to every tweet like it's gospel truth or anything....
i dont buy it either. it doesnt make any sense given they want durant and gave up a lottery pick for morris and have gortat. not sure how he fits that team... and at max (based on the fluff)??
You want players who are proven if you are going to pay premium value. If the Knicks have to spend 25 million a year to get a 14/10 Center or a 20 points a night shooting guard, I rather they do it on proven players like Al Horford or Dwight Howard or DeRozan. Those 3 are on my wish list now. You will not get any talent cheap this year, it's why scrubs like Derrick Williams and Afflalo opted out.
I don't care to see the team spend 12$M a year on a backup like Evan Turner and another question mark health wise in Noah. You go all out here. You made the move for Rose, be aggressive for DeRozan Dwight or Horford. Get your money's worth considering you are gonna spend 25$M a year on a player here.
If a player is the second coming of Lebron James but can't stay on the floor, It doesn't serve us, right?
Obviously, injuries cannot be predicted but one can avoid players with a history of them.
We should sign teammates for KP, not for Melo.
No to 30 years old signings.
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:A couple of people have already refuted the Noah being offered the max by washington. Looks like a bogus rumor. I still expect him to get a major contract offer (probably by us) but not max.I sort of think it was thrown out by his agent to make sure the Knicks don't low ball him.
Most likely. If it's obvious Noah wants NY, then his agent has no leverage. This is his best shot to get a little leverage.
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Fans will see 95% of contracts as bad contracts this summer. The line of thinking has to be adjusted. 20 mil is the new 10 mil.Right. Tyson Chandler signed a 4yr $60M deal with Phoenix two years ago. This 4yr $120M potential offer is not too far off from that, especially when you consider that years 2-4 of the deal the cap should be ~$110M or more, instead of the $55-60M it was just a few years ago.
Not far from that?
Math. its double. As in "Twice as much".
Its a lot.
But, is it legit?
The Rose trade was a starphuck for the Knicks that could work if he performs well. But even in that situation, he will be looking for $30 mil per on his next contract.
foosballnick wrote:Many posters here don't seem to understand the impact of the cap escalation over the next two years. Max contracts could be well into the 30's by next off season.
Only for players with 10+ years.
The Rose trade was a starphuck for the Knicks that could work if he performs well. But even in that situation, he will be looking for $30 mil per on his next contract.
The NBA proves every season stars win titles. It is a star-driven league. If he earns a new $30m deal and the Knicks were included to pay it, means things went pretty well in 2016-17.
Nalod wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Fans will see 95% of contracts as bad contracts this summer. The line of thinking has to be adjusted. 20 mil is the new 10 mil.Right. Tyson Chandler signed a 4yr $60M deal with Phoenix two years ago. This 4yr $120M potential offer is not too far off from that, especially when you consider that years 2-4 of the deal the cap should be ~$110M or more, instead of the $55-60M it was just a few years ago.
Not far from that?
Math. its double. As in "Twice as much".
Its a lot.
But, is it legit?
Yeah, but the point is the cap is double. So relatively it's the same percentage of the cap. Don't think agents won't be saying that.
foosballnick wrote:Many posters here don't seem to understand the impact of the cap escalation over the next two years. Max contracts could be well into the 30's by next off season. At 14 million Rolo performed to his contract. Imagine if his contract was only 8 million per season? That would be the magnitude of value by 2017. The Bulls were smart for several reasons. RoLo's contract will have significant value even if he is a reserve player and Grant on a cheap rookie contract could be an incredible windfall if he even only performs as a solid backup.The Rose trade was a starphuck for the Knicks that could work if he performs well. But even in that situation, he will be looking for $30 mil per on his next contract.
Don't disagree with your points. But Rose is only signed for 1 year and the Knicks have many holes to full with enough cap space to sign only one impact type player.
GustavBahler wrote:crzymdups wrote:GustavBahler wrote:crzymdups wrote:GustavBahler wrote:crzymdups wrote:GustavBahler wrote:crzymdups wrote:crzymdups wrote:markvmc wrote:crzymdups wrote:markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.
To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.
Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.
But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.
I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...
But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.
This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:
For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.
If a starting center like Rolo/Noah is going to be worth $30M in free agency... how much will an all-star guard be worth? Or how hard will he be to get?
The Knicks had to take a risk to get a potential all-star guard - they are the hardest commodities to get in the entire league, because of how valuable they are. Most of them never even really hit free agency.
Lots of teams have cap room to burn through, this offer for Noah pretty much proves that. They could have waited a season for Rose to be an FA. They would have seen how Rose was faring on some other team's dime. Meanwhile our starting frontcourt would have been set with plenty of cap room to go after FAs. As I said have no problem with the idea of Rolo being traded, but not for damaged goods, not for an expiring contract.
If Rose returns to even an above average point guard, he never would be available to us. The trade is a risk, but it's a calculated one and I can live with it. Even if Rose is just out to get a max offer this year, we should benefit.
Because Rose wants the max, right. Trading the best center we have had in a long time with a very reasonable contract, in the hopes of maybe paying a PG who hasnt been a star in this league in 4 years the max, seems like an act of desperation.I've already outlined the basketball reasons I didn't think Rolo was a great fit for Melo and KP. What use is it if he's a bargain and he doesn't fit the team? Hornacek has said he wants to play faster. Maybe Rolo didn't fit his vision for the team. I'm fine with the move. I think some of you guys are overrating Rolo.
I believe the statistics show that KP played better with Rolo than without him. I don't believe it was as much about what Rolo did or didn't do as much as it was about Phil willing to do whatever it takes to sign Rose. If we can sign a big who can fill the void, great. Still dont like risking it all on Rose's gimpy knees, and if we give him the max thats exactly what Phil will be doing.
Rolo played a huge part in guiding KP rookie success .. after watching one season of KP talent, and two seasons of Duke Marshall Plumlee talent .. Plumlee IQ n talents are much more refine to team winning than all the Big Apple season hype of KP one or two high light moves with no post presence
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:For everyone's sake here, i am hoping we can find an effective 2-way center who is between 24-28 years old, no injury concerns, does the dirty work, and is an established starter for under 12 mil per year. I feel like that is the only thing that will make everyone happy. Any player the Knicks sign this summer, and their contract, will be guaranteed to be met with mixed results. The pickiness around here is unrealistic.We have a bunch of guys here who keep acting like we have a chance to sign Durant, of course they're going to be disappointed with reality.
I think anyone that's been saying they think we have a chance knows in reality that that chance isn't very big and they're more hoping then anything.
foosballnick wrote:foosballnick wrote:Many posters here don't seem to understand the impact of the cap escalation over the next two years. Max contracts could be well into the 30's by next off season. At 14 million Rolo performed to his contract. Imagine if his contract was only 8 million per season? That would be the magnitude of value by 2017. The Bulls were smart for several reasons. RoLo's contract will have significant value even if he is a reserve player and Grant on a cheap rookie contract could be an incredible windfall if he even only performs as a solid backup.The Rose trade was a starphuck for the Knicks that could work if he performs well. But even in that situation, he will be looking for $30 mil per on his next contract.
Don't disagree with your points. But Rose is only signed for 1 year and the Knicks have many holes to full with enough cap space to sign only one impact type player.
At least create two separate accounts if you want to debate with yourself foos!
newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:For everyone's sake here, i am hoping we can find an effective 2-way center who is between 24-28 years old, no injury concerns, does the dirty work, and is an established starter for under 12 mil per year. I feel like that is the only thing that will make everyone happy. Any player the Knicks sign this summer, and their contract, will be guaranteed to be met with mixed results. The pickiness around here is unrealistic.We have a bunch of guys here who keep acting like we have a chance to sign Durant, of course they're going to be disappointed with reality.
I think anyone that's been saying they think we have a chance knows in reality that that chance isn't very big and they're more hoping then anything.
The report is out that the Knicks are not on Durant's initial meeting list and people here are still acting like he will have a change of heart. He's only meeting with 60 win teams. He has some 50 win teams on his maybe list. He doesn't even fit next to Melo. It makes zero sense to even consider him. I hope at least the Knicks front office realizes this.