At the start, it appeared that he might. He appeared focused and methodical on assembling a roster piece by piece that fit his system despite it being questioned as outdated and limiting by many. He was adhering to what he knew best and what had worked for him. Hiring a rookie coach in Fischer turned out to be a mistake but I couldnt heavily criticize as Fisher would had extensive playing experience and had shown veteran leadership as a player for several teams. As far as drafting KP, still think Jackson wanted Okafor and lucked out when Philly selected but still give him credit for taking KP rather than Muldiay after the Bargani fiasco. Having said all that, it appears that he is doing a complete reversal and jusr putting it together on the fly, his best fa sign was Lopez who fit his preferences but now is gone for Rose who is nothing like any pg he has had. Its good to be flexible and perhaps he finally sees the trend in NBA and is adapting but it also appears just as likely that he is flailing and having Hornachek and others direct his moves. My one complaint is that two years later . the acclaimed "process" has been discarded and we have nothing to really show , $30 mil to spend in this environment gets you little.
I think he may be over his head as a GM and it took some influences and disgruntlemnt inside to change course. With the excessive monies Dolan threw at the GM spot, you think we could have lured the ilk of a Riley or another GM with a proven record who would have had us better positioned by now.
Does Jackson know what he is doing?????
Yes he finally does
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...
One NBA executive put it this way: “Phil is falling into the same trap every other guy (running Knicks) has for 15 years.
“It’s called, to hell with being patient and adding good pieces, I have to take broken down players and take a chance to try and win.”We heard a lot of talk from Jackson – on those occasions when he was still talking more than every few months — about the team-building and culture-changing he was going to do at the Garden. Only now he is doing it the way a lot of other New York executives do when in trouble: He is going for the splashy, big fix. It is what you do when you were presented as the Garden’s latest savior and proceeded to produce a won-loss record of 49-115, a record that makes Isiah Thomas’ first two years running the Knicks look good in comparison.
Basically, the building through the draft is for the birds, thats why these guys kill me with the TANK TALK. You see how quick grant was traded, he's not interested in developing, Phil is going to bring in some more vets with higher risk, but he's going to leave himself financial flexibility.
The trade for Rose, and the push for KD (even though your solid at the position) is an entire different approach than what he's been barking from day one.
He has got to put together a playoff team this off season, and I think he is well aware of it.
knicks1248 wrote:Yes he finally doeshttp://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...
One NBA executive put it this way: “Phil is falling into the same trap every other guy (running Knicks) has for 15 years.
“It’s called, to hell with being patient and adding good pieces, I have to take broken down players and take a chance to try and win.”We heard a lot of talk from Jackson – on those occasions when he was still talking more than every few months — about the team-building and culture-changing he was going to do at the Garden. Only now he is doing it the way a lot of other New York executives do when in trouble: He is going for the splashy, big fix. It is what you do when you were presented as the Garden’s latest savior and proceeded to produce a won-loss record of 49-115, a record that makes Isiah Thomas’ first two years running the Knicks look good in comparison.
Basically, the building through the draft is for the birds, thats why these guys kill me with the TANK TALK. You see how quick grant was traded, he's not interested in developing, Phil is going to bring in some more vets with higher risk, but he's going to leave himself financial flexibility.
The trade for Rose, and the push for KD (even though your solid at the position) is an entire different approach than what he's been barking from day one.
He has got to put together a playoff team this off season, and I think he is well aware of it.
I like that Knicks have the flexibility for any scenario. If stars want to super friend we can make that happen. If the season goes south we have our lotto pick and at the moment $60-70mil in cap space for 2017.
The offseason just started though. We will see how things shake out.
For the Naysayers and Critics what Phil is about is WINNING! So whatever makes the most sense to try and put a WINNING team together that's what he's gonna do. If you have Carmelo Anthony under contract for big money and you have a chance to put a winning team around him why the hell wouldn't you??? He's not looking to be the Sixers and have youth just for the sake of having youth. If a young player can help the team win, like KP, then he's all for it, but he's not gonna sacrifice an opportunity to put a winning team together if he has the chance to improve the team. Which he did!!!
Grant was the only young player he traded in this deal. Young Prospects come out every year and he's not totally abandoning youth. He will try to add young players that are READY to contribute, which is only the smart thing to do if you can do it. You want to have a proper balance of youth and experience which is what he's trying to do. It kills me that so many don't seem to understand that.
You guys would rather go out of your way to masterbate with sandpaper even when there's plenty of lotion on your nightstand
EnySpree wrote:You guys would rather go out of your way to masterbate with sandpaper even when there's plenty of lotion on your nightstand
They can't kill my vibe!!! This is a very exciting summer so far. There are a lot of possibilities for building the rest of this team. It's going to be fun to see what other players we end up getting and what players come to camp next season.
Phil knows what he's doing. Jeff Van Gundy said it best; the thing people overlook when developing young players like Porzingis is putting them in meaningful games, such as playoffs. Making the playoffs is more valuable than tanking around them to add pieces that way. All they do is learn to lose, and that becomes difficult to overcome with "great culture" over time. We have a great young player. The worst thing we can do is spend years trying to put find another star in the draft. You need it take chances. Rose is still only 27. He could be a big part of this for many year. You just never know. The opportunity was there with no downside and Phil jumped at it.
nixluva wrote:For the Naysayers and Critics what Phil is about is WINNING! So whatever makes the most sense to try and put a WINNING team together that's what he's gonna do. If you have Carmelo Anthony under contract for big money and you have a chance to put a winning team around him why the hell wouldn't you??? He's not looking to be the Sixers and have youth just for the sake of having youth. If a young player can help the team win, like KP, then he's all for it, but he's not gonna sacrifice an opportunity to put a winning team together if he has the chance to improve the team. Which he did!!!Grant was the only young player he traded in this deal. Young Prospects come out every year and he's not totally abandoning youth. He will try to add young players that are READY to contribute, which is only the smart thing to do if you can do it. You want to have a proper balance of youth and experience which is what he's trying to do. It kills me that so many don't seem to understand that.
Yes, the win/loss record reflects this. Also, didn't we have a convo about Lopez age and you argued that he was still considered young? Maybe that was another poster or a different player so I maybe mistaken. Sorry if I am.
Phil is not looking good and continues to undervalue his trade assets. He also changes the narrative as the wind blows like his excuse for getting rid of Chandler only to take on to oft injured players then chase after PnR centers the next summer. It's okay because he traded the center he did pick up for another often injured player.
yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:For the Naysayers and Critics what Phil is about is WINNING! So whatever makes the most sense to try and put a WINNING team together that's what he's gonna do. If you have Carmelo Anthony under contract for big money and you have a chance to put a winning team around him why the hell wouldn't you??? He's not looking to be the Sixers and have youth just for the sake of having youth. If a young player can help the team win, like KP, then he's all for it, but he's not gonna sacrifice an opportunity to put a winning team together if he has the chance to improve the team. Which he did!!!Grant was the only young player he traded in this deal. Young Prospects come out every year and he's not totally abandoning youth. He will try to add young players that are READY to contribute, which is only the smart thing to do if you can do it. You want to have a proper balance of youth and experience which is what he's trying to do. It kills me that so many don't seem to understand that.
Yes, the win/loss record reflects this. Also, didn't we have a convo about Lopez age and you argued that he was still considered young? Maybe that was another poster or a different player so I maybe mistaken. Sorry if I am.
Phil is not looking good and continues to undervalue his trade assets. He also changes the narrative as the wind blows like his excuse for getting rid of Chandler only to take on to oft injured players then chase after PnR centers the next summer. It's okay because he traded the center he did pick up for another often injured player.
phil can do whatever he wants when he will have fans who will swear by his moves regardless of how good/awful they are.
knicks1248 wrote:Yes he finally doeshttp://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...
One NBA executive put it this way: “Phil is falling into the same trap every other guy (running Knicks) has for 15 years.
“It’s called, to hell with being patient and adding good pieces, I have to take broken down players and take a chance to try and win.”We heard a lot of talk from Jackson – on those occasions when he was still talking more than every few months — about the team-building and culture-changing he was going to do at the Garden. Only now he is doing it the way a lot of other New York executives do when in trouble: He is going for the splashy, big fix. It is what you do when you were presented as the Garden’s latest savior and proceeded to produce a won-loss record of 49-115, a record that makes Isiah Thomas’ first two years running the Knicks look good in comparison.
Basically, the building through the draft is for the birds, thats why these guys kill me with the TANK TALK. You see how quick grant was traded, he's not interested in developing, Phil is going to bring in some more vets with higher risk, but he's going to leave himself financial flexibility.
The trade for Rose, and the push for KD (even though your solid at the position) is an entire different approach than what he's been barking from day one.
He has got to put together a playoff team this off season, and I think he is well aware of it.
Not for anything, but ever think Grant was let go because he wasnt what he was thought to be? Maybe he needed more time and Phil thought he was plug and play. Phil hasnt traded future picks he has traded players. What if his future plan is Westbrook and Durant and he needed to defer cap space for a year. You want to keep Grant and let that be the holdup to make that plan possible? I see Phil drafting guys that can contribute roght away. There is a message in that.
Thos FA class sucks as far as top tier guys. Has alot of role players and 2nd level stars, some with large question marks.
I still se him building for the future but ibsee it as over the next 3 or so years before Porzingis actually becomes a top level star, if he does at all. He got a look at Grant and deemed the Rose trade a better route for the future of the franchise.
Everyone forgets where Phil started from here. And I am not a Phil homer just trying to be a realist. From not getting enough in the Chandler trade (everyone seems to forget what Tyson Chandler was that last season here) to hiring Fisher (Phil fucked up). Phil has had and is going to have his missteps, maybe more than most GM's because he was hired as a neophyte. And whether it is triangle or not, Zen or not, the man had to tear down alot of crap and was definately affected by moves of GM's past. Now that Phil has cleared the old stock out he is starting fresh with his team. I love the Rose move. I want to see where he goes from here. He starts bringing in guys like Noah to almost max contracts, thats a problem, but if he brings in guys like that to market value to just above market value shorter term contracts, it means he is tryong to do the improbable and trying to rebuild while making the most of whats left of Melo's prime but still being flexible enough to make moves to fill team needs as they arise.
He may know what he is doing, but from the outside looking in at his moves, I have no clue anymore.
markvmc wrote:He may know what he is doing, but from the outside looking in at his moves, I have no clue anymore.
Based on the amount of leaks and the short lead time between when rumours come out, i think Phil likes it that way.
I think some people are overreacting to the trade, which could very well work out, and the fact that the Knicks passed on jumping into a bad draft. We'll see what happens in FA. The way to build around KP with with picks, and they'll have those next June.
After we see the team that is built between this season and next.Then we will be able to properly judge. But due to the cap money available to the Knicks over these next 2 off seasons there are a ton of possibilities.
Phil is adapting on the fly. If he didn't adapt, we'd be complaining that he is sticking to the triangle despite other opportunities presenting themselves.
Phil's plan A, B and C was getting Kerr. Dolan F'ed that plan. He went with plan D, which was getting Fischer, who was a clown.
Rambis, plan F, was so terrible that Phil had to abort mission. There are no other young triangle coaches that were hire-able. The Denver guy flamed out there Royally.
I think Hornacek has the potential to be a D'Antoni sort of offensive coach, with possible better people management skills. FURTHERMORE, since Phil knows that Hornacek needs a great PG to win, Phil went out and supported his coach by getting him a great PG.
Yes, D Rose is not the MVP and is a shell of his former self. If Rose was MVP quality still, he would not have been available. However, shell of D Rose was better than what we currently had at PG.
Phil has not made the Knicks a contender, but on the plus he has not driven the team into the ground or set them back years like other Knick executives have. What he has been doing is a lot of year to year change without a longterm impact. In 2014 he broke the entire structuredown aside from Melo and it led to drafting Porzingis. Had we not traded Chandler, Smith, etc. We would not have been in position to draft at 4, a talent like KP. We would have been drafting a Frank Kamisnky at 8-9 in the draft. The suckage was needed to get the rebuild going. Last summer he went for a team that had a chance to make the playoffs while still keeping capspace open for 2016 and 2017. Meaning he did not go all in, his only big signing was Lopez. Once he saw the team fall from .500 back into lottery,he made major changes. New coach, system and now has traded for a star point guard to pair with Melo and KP. Again, despite this big trade, Rose is only a one year investment. He has gained even more capspace in 2017 now to go after possibly two max level free agents.
While he has not made any major longterm success move aside from Porzingis, the positive is that none of his other big moves have hurt the Knicks either, longterm. There are no Bargnani, Amare type of blunders. Rose is compared to them, but that is only in terms of being a star on decline. The investment in Rose is 1 year, it has cleared more capspace for the future and we have kept our own draft picks from 2017 and beyond. Amare stuck with us for 5 years. Bargnani was a 2 year investment, that cost a lottery pick. The moves Jackson has made are not earth shattering. They are consistent with one thing. He manages the cap well, and wants to be a player in free agency each summer until he has a finished product. He has shown a true willingness to change and adapt. Hornachek and Rose are evidence of that. I do not understand why it is so awful that a team has Melo, Porzingis, Rose and 30$M to work with. Last I looked at Chicago, they were a contender with Rose, Butler and Noah even after Rose got hurt. We have a comparable wing all star in Melo, we have Rose, and we could have a better big soon in Porzingis. Plus $30M to spend on the right supporting cast. Way I see it, What makes Toronto or Atlanta all that more better than us? We have talent to be on par with them once free agency ends and we have spent the 30$M. Then it is about how good Porzingis will be next year, and how good Rose will be.
yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:For the Naysayers and Critics what Phil is about is WINNING! So whatever makes the most sense to try and put a WINNING team together that's what he's gonna do. If you have Carmelo Anthony under contract for big money and you have a chance to put a winning team around him why the hell wouldn't you??? He's not looking to be the Sixers and have youth just for the sake of having youth. If a young player can help the team win, like KP, then he's all for it, but he's not gonna sacrifice an opportunity to put a winning team together if he has the chance to improve the team. Which he did!!!Grant was the only young player he traded in this deal. Young Prospects come out every year and he's not totally abandoning youth. He will try to add young players that are READY to contribute, which is only the smart thing to do if you can do it. You want to have a proper balance of youth and experience which is what he's trying to do. It kills me that so many don't seem to understand that.
Yes, the win/loss record reflects this. Also, didn't we have a convo about Lopez age and you argued that he was still considered young? Maybe that was another poster or a different player so I maybe mistaken. Sorry if I am.
Phil is not looking good and continues to undervalue his trade assets. He also changes the narrative as the wind blows like his excuse for getting rid of Chandler only to take on to oft injured players then chase after PnR centers the next summer. It's okay because he traded the center he did pick up for another often injured player.
It seems to me that a GM always has to make choices and with Phil he's doing what he knows is most important and that is having winning talent. He has Melo, KP and now DRose. He can build around that core much easier because it makes sense. He has Hornacek looking to make the team a more efficient uptempo team and for that he needed a guard like Rose and not a C like Lopez.
Sure it's a departure from what he was doing with the roster before but then that's not a bad thing as long as you're making the team better. Phil is CLEARLY trying to make the team better. If he can get quality FA's to sign this summer and improve the team, it still works out for the Knicks even if Rose fails and we have to move on, they will have the money to go after a PG again next summer.
Caseloads wrote:Phil is adapting on the fly. If he didn't adapt, we'd be complaining that he is sticking to the triangle despite other opportunities presenting themselves. Phil's plan A, B and C was getting Kerr. Dolan F'ed that plan. He went with plan D, which was getting Fischer, who was a clown.
Rambis, plan F, was so terrible that Phil had to abort mission. There are no other young triangle coaches that were hire-able. The Denver guy flamed out there Royally.
I think Hornacek has the potential to be a D'Antoni sort of offensive coach, with possible better people management skills. FURTHERMORE, since Phil knows that Hornacek needs a great PG to win, Phil went out and supported his coach by getting him a great PG.
Yes, D Rose is not the MVP and is a shell of his former self. If Rose was MVP quality still, he would not have been available. However, shell of D Rose was better than what we currently had at PG.
^This. Same reason I think Noah is a high priority. He played some triangle in Chicago, is cool with Rose and Melo, and can be a team leader personality wise. On the low I also think the whole organization is wooing Durant every non collusion way possible.
Unless, Phil can entice a good rebounder and defender(who can stay on the court more thant 40 games) as center to replace Lopez, what we could gain from DRose, we'll lose it on the defensive end. I read an article our defense was 10th in the league despite our perimeter defense.
knicks1248 wrote:Yes he finally doeshttp://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...
One NBA executive put it this way: “Phil is falling into the same trap every other guy (running Knicks) has for 15 years.
“It’s called, to hell with being patient and adding good pieces, I have to take broken down players and take a chance to try and win.”We heard a lot of talk from Jackson – on those occasions when he was still talking more than every few months — about the team-building and culture-changing he was going to do at the Garden. Only now he is doing it the way a lot of other New York executives do when in trouble: He is going for the splashy, big fix. It is what you do when you were presented as the Garden’s latest savior and proceeded to produce a won-loss record of 49-115, a record that makes Isiah Thomas’ first two years running the Knicks look good in comparison.
Basically, the building through the draft is for the birds, thats why these guys kill me with the TANK TALK. You see how quick grant was traded, he's not interested in developing, Phil is going to bring in some more vets with higher risk, but he's going to leave himself financial flexibility.
The trade for Rose, and the push for KD (even though your solid at the position) is an entire different approach than what he's been barking from day one.
He has got to put together a playoff team this off season, and I think he is well aware of it.
this is bullship because Phil hasn't been anything like prior GM.
Bargs traded for picks
McDyess traded for picks
Penny traded for picks
Melo traded for picks
Marbs traded for picks
TMac traded for picks
Rose traded for a player signed as a FA and a young player acquired in a trade for a guy who was terrible, and Jose... we can talk all day about how much the folks on UK appreciated him and his excellent win shares 
So there is no similarity at all. It gives us a player in the back court where we had none. This trade had none of the downside the other's did.
