Knicks · Crabbe is almost certain to get a max offer from Nets, Sixers, or Kings (page 5)

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

RonRon wrote:this is something Briggs did get right

IMO, he is Allan Houston with a much more complete game on both OFF and DEF/versatility on both ends as well
While he is a VERY GOOD SHOOTER that can play off the ball and also shoot off the dribble, some post up abilities, that can be ELITE

why would the team that drafted him let him go and bring in Evan Turner instead?

They may value a ball dominant wing more for some reason. Why did Orlando let Tobias Harris go and then sign Jeff Green? Why did the Jazz let Millsap and Carrol leave to ATL for peanuts? Sometimes teams make bad decisions.

So your take is that Portland got it wrong?

if they let Crabbe walk then yes. Especially sense they chose to give Turner money. Unless they play small ball with Aminu as a 4 I just don't see how they can keep Crabbe.

RonRon wrote:this is something Briggs did get right

IMO, he is Allan Houston with a much more complete game on both OFF and DEF/versatility on both ends as well
While he is a VERY GOOD SHOOTER that can play off the ball and also shoot off the dribble, some post up abilities, that can be ELITE

Allan was a bit more accomplished when he got his first contract from the Knicks, no?

joec32033 wrote:

RonRon wrote:this is something Briggs did get right

IMO, he is Allan Houston with a much more complete game on both OFF and DEF/versatility on both ends as well
While he is a VERY GOOD SHOOTER that can play off the ball and also shoot off the dribble, some post up abilities, that can be ELITE

Allan was a bit more accomplished when he got his first contract from the Knicks, no?

Crabbe year 3 in NBA: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3 (23 years old)
Houston year 3 in NBA: 19.7ppg, 3.7rebs, 3assists, .43$ from 3 (24 years old)

And Houston played when you could hand check.

Im sorry but the Houston comparisons are so far off its insulting. Houston emerged after 3 years as a premier shooting guard and one of the best shooters in the league. Crabbe has emerged as a bench player who has a good shot.

Can Crabbe breakout? Sure. Can he become and all star? Anything is possible. Has he shown that? Not a bit. Pretty much end of story on that. Crabbe does NOT project to be an all star, especially if Allan Houston is the player you are using for that projection.

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

RonRon wrote:this is something Briggs did get right

IMO, he is Allan Houston with a much more complete game on both OFF and DEF/versatility on both ends as well
While he is a VERY GOOD SHOOTER that can play off the ball and also shoot off the dribble, some post up abilities, that can be ELITE

Allan was a bit more accomplished when he got his first contract from the Knicks, no?

Crabbe 23 years old: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3
Houston 23 yrs old: 14ppg, 2rebs, 2assists, 42% from 3

Crabbe year 3 in NBA: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3 (23 years old)
Houston year 3 in NBA: 19.7ppg, 3.7rebs, 3assists, .43$ from 3 (24 years old)

And Houston played when you could hand check.

Im sorry but the Houston comparisons are so far off its insulting. Houston emerged after 3 years as a premier shooting guard and one of the best shooters in the league. Crabbe has emerged as a bench player who has a good shot.

Can Crabbe breakout? Sure. Can he become and all star? Anything is possible. Has he shown that? Not a bit. Pretty much end of story on that. Crabbe does NOT project to be an all star, especially if Allan Houston is the player you are using for that projection.

Young players are drafted based on potential, and you can kind of understand it to some extent, because they have no NBA experience, but it seems a bit foolish to give a guy $80+M over 4 years based on potential, for the most part.

I suppose if Crabbbe had averaged 35MPG last year and scored 20PPG with 4 APG, and done it on a team without one of the most high scoring backcourt pairs in the league, I could see giving him the contract the Nets offered him, but he has not even been a full time starter in the NBA up to this point. I mean Harrison Barnes was overpaid, but at least he was a starter the last few years.

We will see if this was a mistake by the Nets...glad the Knicks did not make the offer, though.

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

RonRon wrote:this is something Briggs did get right

IMO, he is Allan Houston with a much more complete game on both OFF and DEF/versatility on both ends as well
While he is a VERY GOOD SHOOTER that can play off the ball and also shoot off the dribble, some post up abilities, that can be ELITE

Allan was a bit more accomplished when he got his first contract from the Knicks, no?

Crabbe 23 years old: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3
Houston 23 yrs old: 14ppg, 2rebs, 2assists, 42% from 3

Crabbe year 3 in NBA: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3 (23 years old)
Houston year 3 in NBA: 19.7ppg, 3.7rebs, 3assists, .43$ from 3 (24 years old)

And Houston played when you could hand check.

Im sorry but the Houston comparisons are so far off its insulting. Houston emerged after 3 years as a premier shooting guard and one of the best shooters in the league. Crabbe has emerged as a bench player who has a good shot.

Can Crabbe breakout? Sure. Can he become and all star? Anything is possible. Has he shown that? Not a bit. Pretty much end of story on that. Crabbe does NOT project to be an all star, especially if Allan Houston is the player you are using for that projection.

Young players are drafted based on potential, and you can kind of understand it to some extent, because they have no NBA experience, but it seems a bit foolish to give a guy $80+M over 4 years based on potential, for the most part.

I suppose if Crabbbe had averaged 35MPG last year and scored 20PPG with 4 APG, and done it on a team without one of the most high scoring backcourt pairs in the league, I could see giving him the contract the Nets offered him, but he has not even been a full time starter in the NBA up to this point. I mean Harrison Barnes was overpaid, but at least he was a starter the last few years.

We will see if this was a mistake by the Nets...glad the Knicks did not make the offer, though.

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

RonRon wrote:this is something Briggs did get right

IMO, he is Allan Houston with a much more complete game on both OFF and DEF/versatility on both ends as well
While he is a VERY GOOD SHOOTER that can play off the ball and also shoot off the dribble, some post up abilities, that can be ELITE

Allan was a bit more accomplished when he got his first contract from the Knicks, no?

Crabbe 23 years old: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3
Houston 23 yrs old: 14ppg, 2rebs, 2assists, 42% from 3

Crabbe year 3 in NBA: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3 (23 years old)
Houston year 3 in NBA: 19.7ppg, 3.7rebs, 3assists, .43$ from 3 (24 years old)

And Houston played when you could hand check.

Im sorry but the Houston comparisons are so far off its insulting. Houston emerged after 3 years as a premier shooting guard and one of the best shooters in the league. Crabbe has emerged as a bench player who has a good shot.

Can Crabbe breakout? Sure. Can he become and all star? Anything is possible. Has he shown that? Not a bit. Pretty much end of story on that. Crabbe does NOT project to be an all star, especially if Allan Houston is the player you are using for that projection.

Young players are drafted based on potential, and you can kind of understand it to some extent, because they have no NBA experience, but it seems a bit foolish to give a guy $80+M over 4 years based on potential, for the most part.

I suppose if Crabbbe had averaged 35MPG last year and scored 20PPG with 4 APG, and done it on a team without one of the most high scoring backcourt pairs in the league, I could see giving him the contract the Nets offered him, but he has not even been a full time starter in the NBA up to this point. I mean Harrison Barnes was overpaid, but at least he was a starter the last few years.

We will see if this was a mistake by the Nets...glad the Knicks did not make the offer, though.

Walt that is just logic pure and simple.

The thing with logic, however, is it depends on everything else around it following rules of logic.

The Nets position is highly illogical.

- They have no long-term contracts.

- They (effectively) have no 1st round draft picks for 3 years in a row.

- As a result, they have no motivation to tank.

- They have little talent and little payroll.

- They have no standard means to attract established high-end free agent talent in the near future.

- They have a rapidly escalating salary floor they need to meet over the next 1-4 years that they won't approach via standard means.

This perfect storm of unusual circumstances make vastly overpaying for unproven young player actually logical for them, which is why they're doing it.

There is little pragmatic downside to them other than the principle of overpaying for players that might not prove worth it.

A review of their actual circumstances reveals even if Crabbe is a total bust, the Nets will likely still struggle to meet the salary floor. His salary simply won't ever be prohibitive or hampering, just likely inappropriate.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

RonRon wrote:this is something Briggs did get right

IMO, he is Allan Houston with a much more complete game on both OFF and DEF/versatility on both ends as well
While he is a VERY GOOD SHOOTER that can play off the ball and also shoot off the dribble, some post up abilities, that can be ELITE

Allan was a bit more accomplished when he got his first contract from the Knicks, no?

Crabbe 23 years old: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3
Houston 23 yrs old: 14ppg, 2rebs, 2assists, 42% from 3

Crabbe year 3 in NBA: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3 (23 years old)
Houston year 3 in NBA: 19.7ppg, 3.7rebs, 3assists, .43$ from 3 (24 years old)

And Houston played when you could hand check.

Im sorry but the Houston comparisons are so far off its insulting. Houston emerged after 3 years as a premier shooting guard and one of the best shooters in the league. Crabbe has emerged as a bench player who has a good shot.

Can Crabbe breakout? Sure. Can he become and all star? Anything is possible. Has he shown that? Not a bit. Pretty much end of story on that. Crabbe does NOT project to be an all star, especially if Allan Houston is the player you are using for that projection.

Young players are drafted based on potential, and you can kind of understand it to some extent, because they have no NBA experience, but it seems a bit foolish to give a guy $80+M over 4 years based on potential, for the most part.

I suppose if Crabbbe had averaged 35MPG last year and scored 20PPG with 4 APG, and done it on a team without one of the most high scoring backcourt pairs in the league, I could see giving him the contract the Nets offered him, but he has not even been a full time starter in the NBA up to this point. I mean Harrison Barnes was overpaid, but at least he was a starter the last few years.

We will see if this was a mistake by the Nets...glad the Knicks did not make the offer, though.

Walt that is just logic pure and simple.

The thing with logic, however, is it depends on everything else around it following rules of logic.

The Nets position is highly illogical.

- They have no long-term contracts.

- They (effectively) have no 1st round draft picks for 3 years in a row.

- As a result, they have no motivation to tank.

- They have little talent and little payroll.

- They have no standard means to attract established high-end free agent talent in the near future.

- They have a rapidly escalating salary floor they need to meet over the next 1-4 years that they won't approach via standard means.

This perfect storm of unusual circumstances make vastly overpaying for unproven young player actually logical for them, which is why they're doing it.

There is little pragmatic downside to them other than the principle of overpaying for players that might not prove worth it.

A review of their actual circumstances reveals even if Crabbe is a total bust, the Nets will likely still struggle to meet the salary floor. His salary simply won't ever be prohibitive or hampering, just likely inappropriate.

I cant remember a time when this worked though.... I really cant

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

RonRon wrote:this is something Briggs did get right

IMO, he is Allan Houston with a much more complete game on both OFF and DEF/versatility on both ends as well
While he is a VERY GOOD SHOOTER that can play off the ball and also shoot off the dribble, some post up abilities, that can be ELITE

Allan was a bit more accomplished when he got his first contract from the Knicks, no?

Crabbe 23 years old: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3
Houston 23 yrs old: 14ppg, 2rebs, 2assists, 42% from 3

Crabbe year 3 in NBA: 10ppg, 2.7rebs, 1.2assists, 38% from 3 (23 years old)
Houston year 3 in NBA: 19.7ppg, 3.7rebs, 3assists, .43$ from 3 (24 years old)

And Houston played when you could hand check.

Im sorry but the Houston comparisons are so far off its insulting. Houston emerged after 3 years as a premier shooting guard and one of the best shooters in the league. Crabbe has emerged as a bench player who has a good shot.

Can Crabbe breakout? Sure. Can he become and all star? Anything is possible. Has he shown that? Not a bit. Pretty much end of story on that. Crabbe does NOT project to be an all star, especially if Allan Houston is the player you are using for that projection.

How much would Hubert Davis make in today's market? people over-paying for nice form and swish

fishmike wrote:the pragmatic downside is they could have better spent their money.

I cant remember a time when this worked though.... I really cant

Probably won't, but I actually don't know how they could have better spent their money.

They're gambling, with what in a way is house money, on youth and upside.

Overpaying is the only club in their bag. They can't compete on any other level with other teams.

For me it's not just about his one year. I liked him coming out of the draft and this passed year only reinforced what I thought of him. I also liked that he showed progress in his sophomore year in the little time he got. Crabbe is hurt because he got drafted by a team that was rich with wing players.

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Portland matches on Crabbe.

This is why I say that going after ANY restricted free agent in free agency is full hardy.

It's just not worth it. You can almost never steal a guy, even if you overpay.

crzymdups wrote:

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Portland matches on Crabbe.

This is why I say that going after ANY restricted free agent in free agency is full hardy.

It's just not worth it. You can almost never steal a guy, even if you overpay.

Yup. Specially considering you tie up your money until it gets matched and lose out on other FAs.

Welpee wrote:OK, now that Crabbe is off the table and proved he wasn't obtainable, what's left for the Jackson naysayers to gripe about this offseason other than possibly overpaying Noah?

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:OK, now that Crabbe is off the table and proved he wasn't obtainable, what's left for the Jackson naysayers to gripe about this offseason other than possibly overpaying Noah?

the day is young! They will find something1

Plumlee... the drumbeats are already strong.