Knicks · Zach Lowe: The Delicate Balance of NBA Team Building (page 1)

The Knicks have their foundation, Kristaps Porzingis, and maybe that is all that matters. For now, Carmelo Anthony is almost their own, younger version of Nowitzki. He's so good, they can't properly rebuild. Provide Anthony an average supporting cast and you'll be around .500. Fail to do so, and all you have is a miserable superstar.

The Knicks and Anthony are stuck with each other. The deal he signed in 2014 has a no-trade clause, and a suitor both acceptable to Anthony and stocked with assets the Knicks want just hasn't emerged. There was some internal hope the Cavs might become that team, but then they won the whole stinking thing.

Even had the Knicks wanted to trade Anthony before re-signing him, the timing never broke right. Two years before the expiration of his deal in 2014, the Knicks won 54 games and snagged the No. 2 seed; no team would ever trade its star during a season like that. New York predictably slipped the next season, 2013-14, but Anthony was on an expiring contract by then, torpedoing his trade value.

And so he were are, in 2016, with the Knicks building a team designed to make the 2012 conference finals. They've made a choice: as long as Anthony is in New York, they are going to try to at least be competitive. The Knicks don't really even see another choice. They might feel differently had they not traded so many picks and players in previous win-now moves, including the disastrous Andrea Bargnani deal. They don't have a lot of tools beyond money and a big city.

Each of this summer's moves is defensible on its own. They flipped Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant for Derrick Rose because the organization needed a galvanizing spark, and because the free-agent market is thick with centers to replace Lopez -- and thin on point guards better than Rose. OK, fine. If things go badly, the Knicks let Rose walk.

They're about to sign Joakim Noah to a four-year, $72 million deal despite knee and shoulder injuries that have cramped Noah's game since a magical 2013-14 season in which he finished fourth in MVP voting.

Again, fine. The Knicks need leadership and defense, and they are not really getting those things from any of their veterans. Noah is a beloved teammate, and he will help a defense that has been wretched almost every season since the Jeff Van Gundy era ended. He can spare Porzingis the brutality of playing center full time, cede the position to him for 10 or 15 minutes per game, and slide into a backup role whenever Porzingis is ready to start in the middle.

Noah can facilitate from the elbows and resume setting nasty screens for his old Chicago point guard. He started looking like his snarling, rebound-munching self again in the month before his shoulder gave out last season. He even made some layups. Noah is hungry to prove he can rediscover his peak form, and even 85 percent of that player is damned good.

None of these players is ancient, either. If Porzingis makes a leap in Year 2 or 3, the start of his prime might overlap with the very end of those of some other New York players.

But zoom out and the vision is murky. Are the Knicks going to run any triangle with Rose, a non-triangle point guard, spotting up in the corner? Are they a fast-break team? Even if they sign another wing shooter -- Courtney Lee, Eric Gordon -- can they provide Melo enough space to rampage on the block with Noah and Rose clogging things up?

If they do end up with Gordon, the collective health risk between Rose, Noah, and Gordon is enough to induce some panic dry-heaving.

When the Knicks flipped Lopez for Rose, fans crowed about how much cap space New York could open for next summer's insane free-agency class. But Lopez turned into Noah on a richer long-term deal, and if the Knicks commit $30 million combined in 2017-18 salary to Noah and Shooting Guard X, they might have only between $30 million and $35 million in cap space next summer -- enough for one mega-max but not for the dream scenario of two.

That estimate includes $0 for Rose. He is a risk-free flier primed for a contract year, but that's exactly why Chicago traded him: to avoid the temptation of investing more in Rose's knees after one good season.

There is a lot of uncertainty between now and next July. The cap for 2017-18 probably will come in higher than the projected $107 million. New York could off-load Kyle O'Quinn, Langston Galloway and any free agent it signs now.

But in the bigger picture, the Knicks are using equity to get these guys: a good center on a value contract (Lopez), a semi-interesting point guard prospect (Grant) and cap flexibility. They haven't boxed themselves in, but they have exhausted assets they could have used in gain-an-inch moves that might have primed them for something bigger -- something that better fit Porzingis' timetable.

With Anthony around, they are not going to wait for Porzingis. But there were better ways to straddle the middle ground while still gathering goodies on the fringes that could pay off down the line.

Again: Maybe all that matters is that they drafted Porzingis. Any team hoping to get anywhere needs to find a young star somehow. The Knicks have one. The Mavs barely have anyone young. Even for smart teams with good intentions, the NBA can be a hard place.

I just copied the Knicks half of the article. He also covers the Mavs.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/166797...

It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

CrushAlot wrote:

None of these players is ancient, either. If Porzingis makes a leap in Year 2 or 3, the start of his prime might overlap with the very end of those of some other New York players.

But zoom out and the vision is murky. Are the Knicks going to run any triangle with Rose, a non-triangle point guard, spotting up in the corner? Are they a fast-break team? Even if they sign another wing shooter -- Courtney Lee, Eric Gordon -- can they provide Melo enough space to rampage on the block with Noah and Rose clogging things up?

If they do end up with Gordon, the collective health risk between Rose, Noah, and Gordon is enough to induce some panic dry-heaving.

I just copied the Knicks half of the article. He also covers the Mavs.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/166797...

This part of the article was sloppy by Lowe who is usually on point. Rose and Noah are both well acquainted with the Triangle and have shown they can execute out of it. There's actual video evidence of Rose operating in the offense.

Rose is an attack guard and won't be playing the role of a guard that cuts to the corner all the time. He'll be used mostly on the Pinch Post side which is a 2 man game opposite from the Side Triangle. That's where he will be most effective attacking the defense off PnR and Dribble Handoffs with space. He's not Steve Kerr or Paxson. They won't use him that way.

The issue is that the max studs that the Lowe is looking for typcially don't leave their teams. The Knicks and Lakers were the teams that could afford 2, and they didn't even get visits from the top players.

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Exactly which team stars jumped ship today? Durant, Batum, Derozan, Whiteside chose or will choose the extra year and more money. Think Knicks know the pattern. Specially next year when caps go up.
Noah at 18M with next year's number can be a bargain if he stays healthy or a tradeable contract if he shows signs of injury. Would agree Gordon would make things a bit too risky, unless it's a team friendly deal.

HofstraBBall wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Exactly which team stars jumped ship today? Durant, Batum, Derozan, Whiteside chose or will choose the extra year and more money. Think Knicks know the pattern. Specially next year when caps go up.
Noah at 18M with next year's number can be a bargain if he stays healthy or a tradeable contract if he shows signs of injury. Would agree Gordon would make things a bit too risky, unless it's a team friendly deal.

I said players not stars. Next year will be superstars.

Didn't Parsons and Evan Turner switch teams? I heard Horford will switch soon too.

This is the part I agree with and am concerned with. Throw shit on the wall to see what sticks.

"When the Knicks flipped Lopez for Rose, fans crowed about how much cap space New York could open for next summer's insane free-agency class. But Lopez turned into Noah on a richer long-term deal, and if the Knicks commit $30 million combined in 2017-18 salary to Noah and Shooting Guard X, they might have only between $30 million and $35 million in cap space next summer -- enough for one mega-max but not for the dream scenario of two."

y2zipper wrote:The issue is that the max studs that the Lowe is looking for typcially don't leave their teams. The Knicks and Lakers were the teams that could afford 2, and they didn't even get visits from the top players.

I just listened to Howard Beck's podcast on Mannix's show and that is exactly what he said. He was very positive about the Knicks moves and he generally is very critical.

ChuckBuck wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Exactly which team stars jumped ship today? Durant, Batum, Derozan, Whiteside chose or will choose the extra year and more money. Think Knicks know the pattern. Specially next year when caps go up.
Noah at 18M with next year's number can be a bargain if he stays healthy or a tradeable contract if he shows signs of injury. Would agree Gordon would make things a bit too risky, unless it's a team friendly deal.

I said players not stars. Next year will be superstars.

Didn't Parsons and Evan Turner switch teams? I heard Horford will switch soon too.

Parsons is also off season ending surgery and some say Turner got overpaid. Have to concede that, with new cap levels, every player signed at these crazy numbers is a risk.

Cartman718 wrote:This is the part I agree with and am concerned with. Throw shit on the wall to see what sticks.

"When the Knicks flipped Lopez for Rose, fans crowed about how much cap space New York could open for next summer's insane free-agency class. But Lopez turned into Noah on a richer long-term deal, and if the Knicks commit $30 million combined in 2017-18 salary to Noah and Shooting Guard X, they might have only between $30 million and $35 million in cap space next summer -- enough for one mega-max but not for the dream scenario of two."

I don't see the problem here. Knicks have managed their cap situation very well and this team is indeed MUCH improved. They aren't even done yet so it's hard to really be critical before we see the final numbers on Noah and who are the other FA's signed.

HofstraBBall wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Exactly which team stars jumped ship today? Durant, Batum, Derozan, Whiteside chose or will choose the extra year and more money. Think Knicks know the pattern. Specially next year when caps go up.
Noah at 18M with next year's number can be a bargain if he stays healthy or a tradeable contract if he shows signs of injury. Would agree Gordon would make things a bit too risky, unless it's a team friendly deal.

I said players not stars. Next year will be superstars.

Didn't Parsons and Evan Turner switch teams? I heard Horford will switch soon too.

Parsons is also off season ending surgery and some say Turner got overpaid. Have to concede that, with new cap levels, every player signed at these crazy numbers is a risk.

The numbers are relative.

People are reacting to the numbers, not the percentages

It actually used to be worst.

Players received a higher percentage of BRI and there used to be 5, and 6 year deals. Now just 4 and 5.

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

I actually think this team can contend. Who says this will be a "middling second round exit team" but you. How do you know how it will all come together and who else we add to this team. Remember we still have cap.

All you guys have done is talk "theory" but you aren't saying which PG and Center the Knicks should've gotten instead of who they've gone after and why. Zach hasn't really provided an answer and neither have you guys. Like it or not the Knicks have actually made choices that make sense.

Heck Lowe didn't even know that Rose and Noah have played in the Triangle already. He talked about Rose taking corner 3's which shows he didn't do his research cuz that's not how Rose played in the Triangle on the Bulls!!!

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

Rose allows the team to do different things than Jose. People are putting too much emphasis on Advanced Stats and not enough on the way Rose will be used and how that impacts other players. JH will have the team play faster and use more PnR and that will be something that Rose does well. Rose should be better physically and sharper skills wise after a full summer of work on his game.

Noah is not a lateral move from Lopez because he can play faster, is a great passer and a vocal leader. That's going to be a factor for this team. Noah should also be much healthier after a long layoff and a full summer of work. Not to mention that both players will be highly motivated by the new situation.

there is NO doubt that the knicks improved with rose and noah. looks like they might add gordon as well. my main concerns are health and depth. the reality is that rose, noah and gordon have missed a lot of games in the past few yrs. id feel MORE comfortable if he had depth - especially at PG.

so no, i dont think this will be a 32 win team...or a 52 win team...most likely they will be in the middle. thats me being objective and realistic based on what we have so far.

in regards to the zach lowe article, his concerns are the same as mine - as long as melo is around, the knicks will always try to contend. if it was up to me, i wouldve hit the reset button yrs ago (instead of resigning melo) and build via the draft,UDFA and young players. while i give phil credit for hitting a home run on the KP draft, bringing in gallo and getting younger, what bothers me is that hes still trying to build a contender. as we can see, its hard to bring in legit game changing free agents - instead we're bringing in B- players. this is exactly what i expected would happen (i actually said bjennings, e.turner and other mediocre players - looks like well get rose, gordon and noah).i dont mind either way - i think after this season, melo will see that this team cant win with these types of players and he'll leave. once that happens, only THEN will they hit the reset button and rebuild via the draft. to get star players you either DRAFT them or you buy them as free agents (but they dont wanna come)

The free agents that the Knicks were rumored to be targeting before the Rose trade, Conley, Bazemore, BAtum, and Fournier all stayed with their teams and are getting paid a lot. Bazemore got 4 yrs 70 mil. Solomon Hill got 52 mil. Crazy stuff. The Rose trade seems like a much better move to me after seeing these deals and the lack of movement for a lot of guys. Also, Turner at 4yrs and 70 mil.

Bazemore was offered 72 mil by the Lakers and Rockets but wanted to stay with the Hawks.

CrushAlot wrote:The free agents that the Knicks were rumored to be targeting before the Rose trade, Conley, Bazemore, BAtum, and Fournier all stayed with their teams and are getting paid a lot. Bazemore got 4 yrs 70 mil. Solomon Hill got 52 mil. Crazy stuff. The Rose trade seems like a much better move to me after seeing these deals and the lack of movement for a lot of guys. Also, Turner at 4yrs and 70 mil.

With all the complaining it seems that people aren't actually paying attention to how things have gone. Phil knows how this works and he made a move to lock in a PG rather than take chances on the FA Market.

Rose and Noah won't have to carry the load with other talent around them. They just need to help facilitate things, which they are more than capable of doing. Initiate the break, early offense, moving the ball, attacking the paint. This can be a top team in the East if they can round out this roster.