Knicks · Knicks offer Courtney Lee a 4 Year Deal (page 1)

New York Knicks team president Phil Jackson is doing everything he can to lock up his primary free agency targets for the long-haul. Some may not agree with his tactics, but it’s become abundantly clear that The Zen Master is seeking continuity.

That much has been proven in the Knicks’ latest attempt at a signing.

According to Marc Stein of ESPN, the Knicks have made a four-year contract offer to free agent shooting guard Courtney Lee.

Lee will likely take his time in weighing his options, but New York clearly has legitimate interest.

Lee, 30, is a 6’5″ and 200-pound shooting guard with a fluid athleticism in both the half court and transition. He’s a plus defender who can space the floor, create off the bounce, and finish above the rim.

All things considered, Lee is quite similar to 2015-16 Knicks starter Arron Afflalo—a player who he exerts more effort than defensively.

Lee finished the 2015-16 season with 82 3-point field goals made on 37.8 percent shooting from beyond the arc. He’s a career 38.4 percent shooter from distance, with a tremendous ability to convert off the catch.

According to NBA.com, Lee converted 40.3 percent of his catch-and-shoot 3-point field goals during the 2015-16 regular season.

Defensively, Lee has the size, strength, and reflexes to contain shooters at all three perimeter positions. He’s better off against guards, but is capable of switching onto bigger shooters.

In 2015-16, he overcame having to learn a new system on the fly, and posted a defensive field goal percentage of 41.8 percent.

https://dailyknicks.com/2016/07/01/knicks-rumors-new-york-offers-courtney-lee-four-year-deal/

Hope this happens

Only overpay I would agree with this off season. Gordon is a big fat hell no dumb phuck move.

ChuckBuck wrote:Only overpay I would agree with this off season. Gordon is a big fat hell no dumb phuck move.

I would much rather have Lee. I think Gordon is too much of a risk cosindering we have injury risks in Noah, Rose and Melo already.

Yes yes yes.. hope it happens. He will help us at the 2 position defensively and he can shoot the 3.. I don't want Dwayne wade.. no way man..

It says 4 years but for Joe how much? I do like Lee

Luol Deng just got 4yr $72m, Bazemore got 4yr $72m, Turner got 4yr $72m - seems to be the going rate for a starter.

Makes Noah's deal seem a bit more sensible, doesn't it?

I think EG and Lee will both get around 4yr $72m. I don't think the Knicks can afford that unless they move KOQ.

Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

They need his skill set now..... In theory consider the knicks have all their future picks they should look to draft a SG in the near future to replace him as age starts to catch up.....

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

I think you have the "wrong side of..." concept a little off.

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

IMHO Lee and AA are completely different players, one is a role player whose off the ball movement and shooting fits the team and was engaged on D, the other acted like a prime scorer who really wasn't and was a total zero on D.

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

Who would you rather sign? Or what would be your next move?

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

IMHO Lee and AA are completely different players, one is a role player whose off the ball movement and shooting fits the team and was engaged on D, the other acted like a prime scorer who really wasn't and was a total zero on D.

Agreed...Go back and watch Lee in the Hornets/Heat series. He about as good job as you can do on Wade. He fought through screens, made Wade work, etc. Lee's skill set and what he offers can fit nicely with what we have...

Knicksfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

I think you have the "wrong side of..." concept a little off.

I'm not sure what you mean. He is over 30 and the statistics definitely indicate a sharp decline starting then. Here are a few sources on it but this pattern comes up with almost any stat and analysis. You can see the average player peaked at age 27 and then declined.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog...

The wins produced peak was age 25, although the decline wasn't that sharp until around 30.
http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-l...

The Box Plus Minus peak was around 25 to 26, though the decline wasn't that sharp until late 20s.
http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2015/05...

Player efficiency peaked at age 29
http://www.nbaminer.com/golden-ages-of-b...

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

Who would you rather sign? Or what would be your next move?

Almost any player can be great or awful depending on the contract. Lee could be great on a cheap contract. This summer I would have:
A) accepted that we're likely going to be bad next year. I think we will be bad anyway. I'd rather be bad but building a better future than bad without building.
B) waited til most teams with cap space got their overspending done and then grabbed remaining desperate players. We didn't need to be one of the overspending teams.
C) if Dolan would allow a complete rebuild, I'd trade many of our players over 28 for players entering their prime and/or draft picks.

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

Who would you rather sign? Or what would be your next move?

Bonn1997 hardly ever answers questions like that- he'll usually ignore them, or at best say he's already said in some other thread...

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

Who would you rather sign? Or what would be your next move?

Almost any player can be great or awful depending on the contract. Lee could be great on a cheap contract. This summer I would have:
A) accepted that we're likely going to be bad next year. (I think we will be bad anyway.)
B) waited til most teams with cap space got their overspending done and then grabbed remaining desperate players. We didn't need to be one of the overspending teams.
C) if Dolan would allow a complete rebuild, I'd trade many of our players over 28 for players entering their prime and/or draft picks.

The major problem with your scenario is elephant in the room being Melo. This scenario works best without Melo. Resigning him meant we are trying to win now if now very soon...

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

You don't need stars at all 5 positions- look at who OKC were starting at SG. Lee fits, gives you two-way play, won't take shots away from KP, has been pretty healthy so far and can hit a clutch shot. Fit trumps talent.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

I think you have the "wrong side of..." concept a little off.

I'm not sure what you mean. He is over 30 and the statistics definitely indicate a sharp decline starting then. Here are a few sources on it but this pattern comes up with almost any stat and analysis. You can see the average player peaked at age 27 and then declined.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog...

The wins produced peak was age 25, although the decline wasn't that sharp until around 30.
http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-l...

The Box Plus Minus peak was around 25 to 26, though the decline wasn't that sharp until late 20s.
http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2015/05...

Player efficiency peaked at age 29
http://www.nbaminer.com/golden-ages-of-b...

So based on your own source, since there's a production spike at age 36 for some reason, if you don't sign a player before 30 you should wait until he's 36?

The reality is every player is different and you have to make decisions based on individuals not a bunch of accumulated general stats.

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Lee is basically an average NBA player on the wrong side of 30. This would be an upgrade from last year but not a huge one. I'm going to guess that replacing Afflalo with Lee gives us 2 more wins.

I think you have the "wrong side of..." concept a little off.

I'm not sure what you mean. He is over 30 and the statistics definitely indicate a sharp decline starting then. Here are a few sources on it but this pattern comes up with almost any stat and analysis. You can see the average player peaked at age 27 and then declined.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog...

The wins produced peak was age 25, although the decline wasn't that sharp until around 30.
http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-l...

The Box Plus Minus peak was around 25 to 26, though the decline wasn't that sharp until late 20s.
http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2015/05...

Player efficiency peaked at age 29
http://www.nbaminer.com/golden-ages-of-b...

So based on your own source, since there's a production spike at age 36 for some reason, if you don't sign a player before 30 you should wait until he's 36?

The reality is every player is different and you have to make decisions based on individuals not a bunch of accumulated general stats.

Not sure which source you're looking at, and I hope you're not looking at only one source when I posted four. You should be looking at the general trend from these four (and dozens of other studies). If you could make a compelling case based on all the data that there is a spike at age 36, then yes (but I'm sure you can't).

I have an entire thread showing FINALS teams that have players over the age of 30 leading the way. This is not something advanced stats pay attention to. When it comes to winning a LOT of the teams that win Titles have aging stars at the core of them. It's not about peak production! It's about knowing how to win.