Knicks · How do you rate our new additions in comparison to your expectations? (page 1)

I thought phil did a solid job last off season, if the only thing he did was change the coach and upgraded the pg, I would have been satisfied.

For a team that went into the off-season with NO draft picks and a reputation for not signing prime FAs, I feel we did very good.

You also have to consider Hernangomez to be a late #1 pick, and I look at Baker as an early to mid 2nd, and Plumlee a late 2nd rounder...so I would say that, in effect, we didn't strike out in the draft.

I almost but C, instead chose B, but mostly based on verbiage. I think Phil did an excellent job, but I somewhat expected that. I'm not in the "This is a money grab, triangle validation project for Phil" crowd. Having a 2nd core piece to build around I expected him to be more aggressive. Funny that individually I don't love the Rose trade, Noah signing or Lee signing, but as a combo I think it makes a ton of sense. Factor in the FA landscape it was good business.

Those are the big ones.. but
Willy 4 years $6mm
Kuz 2 years $6mm
Lance 4 years
Jennings 1 year $5mm

Those 4 guys show great value. Impressed with his ability to fill out the bench with quality and diversity after spending on Lee/Noah.

We are setup for some continuity. We have some young guys who can be up and coming. We have some young pros with something to prove. We have some vets with something to prove. We don't have anyone older than 31. I feel like in year 3 Phil built us a team. We didn't have to sacrifice a decade's worth of first rounders to get it. We are square there, so god forbid there is a disaster season there is that saving grace as well.

Should be a very fun season. I feel like we have a real team with complimentary parts and enough fire power to hang with the big boys. Health will determine much, but unlike last year this team can lose a Melo/Rose/Noah for a month and tread water or still win. Last year we were 20-20 but when Melo goes down, Lance gets hurt and KP hits the wall we are no better than the 17 win roster. This should be different. Time will tell but on paper it looks great. Plenty to be excited about.

fishmike wrote:I almost but C, instead chose B, but mostly based on verbiage. I think Phil did an excellent job, but I somewhat expected that. I'm not in the "This is a money grab, triangle validation project for Phil" crowd. Having a 2nd core piece to build around I expected him to be more aggressive. Funny that individually I don't love the Rose trade, Noah signing or Lee signing, but as a combo I think it makes a ton of sense. Factor in the FA landscape it was good business.

Those are the big ones.. but
Willy 4 years $6mm
Kuz 2 years $6mm
Lance 4 years
Jennings 1 year $5mm

Those 4 guys show great value. Impressed with his ability to fill out the bench with quality and diversity after spending on Lee/Noah.

We are setup for some continuity. We have some young guys who can be up and coming. We have some young pros with something to prove. We have some vets with something to prove. We don't have anyone older than 31. I feel like in year 3 Phil built us a team. We didn't have to sacrifice a decade's worth of first rounders to get it. We are square there, so god forbid there is a disaster season there is that saving grace as well.

Should be a very fun season. I feel like we have a real team with complimentary parts and enough fire power to hang with the big boys. Health will determine much, but unlike last year this team can lose a Melo/Rose/Noah for a month and tread water or still win. Last year we were 20-20 but when Melo goes down, Lance gets hurt and KP hits the wall we are no better than the 17 win roster. This should be different. Time will tell but on paper it looks great. Plenty to be excited about.

A. I'm 100% pumped and satisfied with the off season.

Exceeded expectations but not totally content with the way we skinned the cat. Thought team would be modestly improved for next year but also be built with a eye to the future. This roster has the abilty to win more and sooner than I expected, my guess 44 wins, but it also may have a shorter run. Luv Noah but he'll be 35 at contrat end, like Lee but same, cant dislike the pg upgrade withRose but he cost Lopez and not thrilled with thought of making bed with him over max term. Like return of Thomas and addition of Jenning. Hard to pass judgement on other bench additions but wary of having too many marginal and inexperienced hands on board especially in frontcourt

I voted "A" since I thought we'd be blow most of the cap going after a Conley and maybe one more FA and bringing back a lot of the same guys. This was a very unexpected offseason starting with Hornacek and Phil's relaxing of his ideals regarding PG's. Then going after Rose set the team up for all the moves that came afterward. Noah, Lee and Jennings is a good haul and totally improves the top 6 of the team. I was very happy that they brought back LT cuz I think he was a 2 way difference maker. Some underappreciated his impact but he fills a very key role for this team defensively.

I think this team should be headed for the 54 win team level. I don't see why this team can't equal or exceed what that team did. I don't think people are appreciating just how much better this team is than last years team. I think last year that team could've won more games with better health and coaching. Just going off the actual talent. This roster is exceedingly better in every way than last years team. The only mitigating factor is games missed. That can have an impact but it's hard to quantify what that will be. There were a lot of games missed on that 54 win team too and yet they still won games.

A: I'm excited, but can we beat Cavs and Warriors ?

between (c) and (d):

1)the rose acquisition is very iffy because of several factors: injury history, questions of character, style of play (poor d and ball-dominant on o) he has a lot to prove and it will be hard to win me over.
2)on the other hand, acquiring noah is a great idea for a couple of factors: style of play (great d and an elite passer on o)

N.B. i will be closely watching how well rose shares the ball with melo and kp6, as well as how much he sets up those two.

3)acquiring lee was GREAT: a good defender, unselfish, willing to get scraps on o-----> i'd like to see him develop as a playmaker if it's not too late
4)i am excited about the two other spanish leaguers joining the team in hernangomez and mindauskas-- spanish league is now a better source for solid bench players and the occasional starting-calibre player if not all-star (kp6!)
5)i am not expecting much from jennings. (see rose) he has a lot to prove but anything outright positive we get will be a big plus. i had a similar attitude towards d williams and was very pleasantly surprised...

N.B. and lets not forget that jackson has shifted his arc of building the team to a shorter timetable, putatively to accommodate melo's career arc... and away from kp6's. from this point of view i would give the summer so far (d)

dk7th wrote:between (c) and (d):

1)the rose acquisition is very iffy because of several factors: injury history, questions of character, style of play (poor d and ball-dominant on o) he has a lot to prove and it will be hard to win me over.
2)on the other hand, acquiring noah is a great idea for a couple of factors: style of play (great d and an elite passer on o)

N.B. i will be closely watching how well rose shares the ball with melo and kp6, as well as how much he sets up those two.

3)acquiring lee was GREAT: a good defender, unselfish, willing to get scraps on o-----> i'd like to see him develop as a playmaker if it's not too late
4)i am excited about the two other spanish leaguers joining the team in hernangomez and mindauskas-- spanish league is now a better source for solid bench players and the occasional starting-calibre player if not all-star (kp6!)
5)i am not expecting much from jennings. (see rose) he has a lot to prove but anything outright positive we get will be a big plus. i had a similar attitude towards d williams and was very pleasantly surprised...

N.B. and lets not forget that jackson has shifted his arc of building the team to a shorter timetable, putatively to accommodate melo's career arc... and away from kp6's. from this point of view i would give the summer so far (d)

The role that both Rose and Jennings are expected to play is not that of a Pure PG. They will be expected to be in Attack mode offensively. That is the role that normally goes to the Kobe or MJ in this offense. If you look at things from that standpoint and also how Hornacek used PG's in his offense it makes sense. There is really a lot more overlap between the Triangle and what Hornacek was running in PHX than a lot of people realize. JH can simplify things a TON by taking out a lot of the READ aspects and just using the spacing and a more aggressive use of Screens, Cuts, Hand Offs and Rolls.

Phil did a great job this offseason. About as good as could be expected. Other than letting Langston Galloway go, I like all of the moves. Hopefully, Rose, Jennings, and Noah can stay relatively healthy. We should be the 4th or 5th seed in the playoffs.

C+ overall.

Rose addition dragged it way down and though I love Noah, I think they took a big chance on him. At least if he is hurt he is still a great great leader even in a suit.

Jennings was a steal.

Lee was a decent move.

Like the foreign and d-league additions since they are unknowns and I would hope that we try many of these unknowns in hopes that we will hit on one. Saying that any of them are first round or second round talents means nothing to me.

Love that phil nixed the rambis disaster regardless of why he had to or wanted to do it.

Hornacek was a really nice surprise.

Mills IMHO should get more credit than he does but no way to confirm that.

It all starts and ends at PG. We need a huge turn around from Rose and though every expects it as if it happened already, its a huge question mark and he has not proven that he can turn it around from being one of the worst players in the league.

A+. We got vets. We got yoots. We have all our picks. We have cap space next year. We have a new coach who will preach system ball. We currently have no albatross contracts. Melo wins, KP6 wins, Phil wins. Did not imagine the team could be so fundamentally remade in one offseason. Excitement.

mreinman wrote:C+ overall.

Rose addition dragged it way down and though I love Noah, I think they took a big chance on him. At least if he is hurt he is still a great great leader even in a suit.

Jennings was a steal.

Lee was a decent move.

Like the foreign and d-league additions since they are unknowns and I would hope that we try many of these unknowns in hopes that we will hit on one. Saying that any of them are first round or second round talents means nothing to me.

Love that phil nixed the rambis disaster regardless of why he had to or wanted to do it.

Hornacek was a really nice surprise.

Mills IMHO should get more credit than he does but no way to confirm that.

It all starts and ends at PG. We need a huge turn around from Rose and though every expects it as if it happened already, its a huge question mark and he has not proven that he can turn it around from being one of the worst players in the league.

I suspect that those in support of the Rose move are looking at the fact that he will be massively aided by playing next to Melo and KP. Their presence is going to open up the paint as they are used in Hornacek's style of ball. Teams will be put in really bad positions due to his still excellent ability to drive. There will be less help than he saw in Chicago. There will be more space as defenses struggle trying to decide whether to help off of Melo and KP. Hornacek specializes in forcing those tough decisions. He's not like Fisher or Rambis. He's going to push and push the other team until they break. It's a totally different approach even using some of the same basic formations.

Some are too caught up in the numbers and not paying enough attention to how the actual players will impact each other. Distracted defenders are gonna get beat by our scorers. That's why they wanted Rose and Jennings. They will put pressure on the defense and that will create open shots for our shooters. Melo, KP and Lee don't need a lot of space or time to get off great shots but they will get much more of both.

A+ We going for 50+ wins all the way to the ECF

A team built to win now is more likely to be entertaining and successful than one that takes a more gradual approach. Even though I would have preferred the latter, I believe Phil did a good job of building a win now team with the resources he had. Wether or not its the right move, we wont know until later. At least it should be fun. This team hasn't been consistently fun to watch in many, many years.

It's a solid B/B+. I like the coaching move (the feeling going in with Hornacek is that he'll focus more on uptempo, guard play etc., which is more in tune to how the game is played now) and I really like the Rose trade (there's no real risk--if he plays poorly or breaks down, bye-bye. All we really lost was RoLo and Grant and I think both were replaceable. Very good upside in this trade with Rose and we even got a decent player in Holiday, all w/o giving up any picks -- good trade). Noah and Lee: not a huge fan of either guy to be honest and I wish their deals were shorter (if this goes south quickly for any reason, it's 4 years now before we can turn the page with these two) but when you think about Melo still being a good player, his window still being open hopefully for the deration of his contract and the fact that he's not going anywhere, it does make sense to try to win now with him. And I actually agree with their logic of trying to put experienced/successful players around KP to try to create a winning environment--that does make some sense and should help him develop better. The Jennings move is OK too -- I've never cared for him and his low shooting % but there's no denying the man's talented and like Rose, if it doesn't work, it's 1 year and sayonara...but for what he is, I do like him in the 6th man role as a scoring guard off the bench. Perfect role for him. Also like how Phil's openly challenged him to win 6th man of the year. That affirms they plan on letting him do his thing and not make him into some pass-first guy which I agree with--let him be himself--and the challenge Phil issued him hopefully gets him going...Bringing over Willy was solid (I'm hoping for a quality rotation low post scorer/rebounder, a better option over KOQ) and this Kuzminskas signing looks real solid (hoping for a better overall player than D-Will). Things I would've done different -- I would've put together a better SL team focusing on getting one of the better PGs that went late in this draft/undrafted, would've went younger at SG, and would now look to round out the roster by infusing a little more youth with upside to balance things out over washed up vets like Drew Gooden and Sasha Vujacic. Still time to accomplish some of these moves--let's see what finishing touches Phil puts on this roster. All in all, real nice offseason though.

mreinman wrote:C+ overall.

Rose addition dragged it way down and though I love Noah, I think they took a big chance on him. At least if he is hurt he is still a great great leader even in a suit.

Jennings was a steal.

Lee was a decent move.

Like the foreign and d-league additions since they are unknowns and I would hope that we try many of these unknowns in hopes that we will hit on one. Saying that any of them are first round or second round talents means nothing to me.

Love that phil nixed the rambis disaster regardless of why he had to or wanted to do it.

Hornacek was a really nice surprise.

Mills IMHO should get more credit than he does but no way to confirm that.

It all starts and ends at PG. We need a huge turn around from Rose and though every expects it as if it happened already, its a huge question mark and he has not proven that he can turn it around from being one of the worst players in the league.

B-

Biggest need coming in was PG - Rose was a one year plug in at PG coming off of two very mediocre seasons and we gave up a valuable contact and rotation player to get him.
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Then we had give up more than half our remaining cap to fill the gap that first move created and we took a big risk on Noah. I love Noah as a player but hard to get excited about a 4 year contract.

I liked both Lees Courtney and Plum. Courtney is a reasonable contract and should fit nicely. The young players/ euros are all good pickups and I hope some of them will pan out to be rotation players.

Very happy with Hornaeck as opposed to the possibility of Rambis.
Happy that we retained Thomas

Not happy with "win now" or as someone here said, it may easily become "now" because of lack of synergy or because the players can't magically regain their pre-injury form.

b+ given the circumstances:

1. no draft picks
2. We did not trade a future no. 1 pick!!
3. Phil is still here, Isiah is still with the Liberty.

Right there it a pretty good off season!!

4. Rose is a starphuch that cost us very little and preserves cap space/options to resign him.
5. No Rose, no Noah. IN fact, Noah if healthy could bring a pretty good grab as an asset if we trade him.
This providing things went south. Injury bug hit, we could tank.
6. MIndas like dunk!!! WE have our new mascot, high energy "WINGO" type player!!!!
7. Jennings. Year of redemption and prove himself worthy of a good contract. Great back up if healthy!!
8. Willy, and Plum. We got rookies!!!
9. Best supporting cast for melo since he is here. Melo should be happy. A happy melo is winning Melo??
10.We have a 20 year old Baby Unicorn that projects unlimited potential. If Nalod says in three-5 years KP could be the best player on the planet, or at least top 5, you don't go full homer label on me. He could be. No guarantee, just potential.
11. New coach, new enthusiasm.
12. Abby Hornacek.

are you all grading phil's offseason in comparison to the previous year's roster or grading it as part of his overall tenure?

positives: hornacek + lee
negatives: rose + noah + jennings
tbd: young players signed that may or may not be nba players

mreinman, dk... who are the guys Phil should have targeted that would have improved your offseason grades?

I can't vote, there isn't an option for my opinion/feelings.

First, I am surprised. Phil did more in terms of adding pieces/talent than I thought possible. Kudos there.

However, its a ballsy move to move most of your chips in on a 23 red, and hoping to win.

Exciting? Yes. Do we have something to look for? Yes. Is the talent upgraded? I think most will agree yes.

But

Is Rose a risk free gamble? What if he plays well and we end up signing him? Don't say it won't happen.

Lee is journeyman at best. He should not be considered a marquee signing. He is a tuck in, fill a whole player. And I get that he will play a valuable role and contribute beyond his numbers, much like Lopez did. But he is 31. Signed for 4 years. Unless he is juicing, he is getting slower each year, not faster.

Noah is signed for four years at relatively big money. Sure, maybe he makes it this year, and heck, maybe he plays most of his games on his contract. But who is betting his production with whatever stats you want to measure him by (except DNPS) are going to not decline, and possibly not be much worse than his last full season? Anyone want to take that bet besides Nixluva?

I get surrounding KP with winners and veterans. But, I felt our target horizon should have been 2-5 years out, not this summer, and that building a winner takes time and we ideally needed 1 more franchise type talent to fall to us in the draft so we could have some control over that talent moving forward.

Yes, no draft picks were moved. Thank god, but that is only so far.

I hope things work out. There is talent there on paper, but some of that paper includes medical charts!