Knicks · Article: Stop Expecting Derrick Rose to Be Something He Never Was (page 1)

This Bleacher Report Article is the best one of i've seen on the subject of Derrick Rose. It points out that Rose was never really as great as his reputation made him out to be. Surely a very good player but the hype makes it even harder for him post injuries. Rose was never a great shooter! The key for him now is to not try and be the MVP Rose but to use his still considerable quickness to get into the lane and create for his teammates. It's a necessary shift. He can also look to be more efficient in taking smarter shots. I believe JH can help him with that.

For Derrick Rose, the 2016-17 NBA season is a chance to start over. New city. New uniform. New teammates.

For the rest of us, his move from the Chicago Bulls to the New York Knicks is a long-overdue wake-up call—the ultimate reminder that Rose needs this clean slate.

We assume the ACL tear in his left knee during the 2012 postseason derailed an all-time career trajectory. We rationalize the 27-year-old's future and place in the league by assuring ourselves he can be a quality point guard, maybe the outline of superstar, because of what he accomplished in 2010-11, as a 22-year-old.

Three knee surgeries and countless injuries later, the "youngest MVP in NBA history" distinction Rose once wore like a crown has, in essence, become a multiyear millstone. Even with all that's changed, he is still linked to notoriety from his past—and bound to an unfair vision of his future.

“I think I’ve been snubbed a year or two,” four-time MVP LeBron James told the Beacon Journal's Jason Lloyd in February of his Maurice Podoloff Trophy collection. “I should have probably five or six right now, to be completely honest.”

It doesn't take much effort to pull back James' thin veil.

He finished a distant third on the MVP ladder in 2010-11, receiving only four of a possible 121 first-place votes. Rose cornered the market with 113 first-place nods, nearly doubling the total score of runner-up Dwight Howard.

Justifications for Rose's landslide victory, in retrospect, read more like excuses.

Carlos Boozer posted the second-highest usage rate on that Bulls team! Joakim Noah appeared in just 48 games! James had two superstars, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, on his side! Ugh, come on, James just secured two consecutive MVP awards; it's someone else's turn!

Yes, Rose was indispensable to that 62-win Bulls squad. They played like a top-10 offense with him on the court and devolved into a smoldering heap when he sat, with a 98.9 offensive rating that would have ranked dead last. That they finished first in the Eastern Conference at a time when the Miami Heat's villainous Big Three was supposed to steamroll the rest of the NBA played a pivotal part in Rose's ascension.

But the Bulls' calling card was still their defense. They fielded the Association's best points-prevention system—one that improved when Rose stepped off the floor. He barely ranked as an above-average defender that season, according to NBAMath.com.

Historically, MVP winners dominate some of the most common statistical measuring sticks, including win shares per 48 minutes, player efficiency rating (PER) and box plus-minus (BPM)—the latter of which shows how much better the average team is per 100 possessions with a given player on the court. Rose's 2010-11 efforts never held up to that billing.

Twenty-three of the 37 MVP winners from the three-point era have finished inside the top three of each category. James led all of those subsections in 2010-11; Rose only ranked in the top three of one (BPM). His average placement across all three departments was seventh, which is the fifth-worst mark for an MVP since 1980. He's ahead of only Kobe Bryant (2008), Allen Iverson (2001) and Steve Nash (2005, 2006).

Nash's MVP seasons inoculate Rose against an even lower standing. But, unlike the rest of the field, Nash was neither a high-usage shooter nor volume scorer. He jacked fewer than 14 shots per 36 minutes during each of his MVP crusades, whereas Rose launched 19.

Take into account Nash's superior efficiency, and Rose comes off even worse. Chicago's floor general posted the fourth-lowest true shooting percentage—combined measurement of two-point, three-point and free-throw efficiency—of any recent MVP:

Please go to the original article to see the rest of the information with Graphs and Charts.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26529...

Pretty much everything I have been saying. Thanks anyway.

dk7th wrote:Pretty much everything I have been saying. Thanks anyway.

Forgive me but I don't remember what you've been saying about Rose. Perhaps you could clarify your take on Rose for us.

To me he just needs to create offense and be a reliable 3rd scorer. I expect KP to be the 2nd scorer and eventually take over. My hope is, if things go well with Rose and we can't get Westbrook or CP3, he is a 16-17 ppg scorer and 6-7 assist per game for the next 5 years or so. And of course plays 70+ games. No expectation of all-star appearances and definitely not MVP.

My hope is that Rose has enough decent games and highlights with KP that Russell can envision sliding into his spot and just totally dominating in New York.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:Pretty much everything I have been saying. Thanks anyway.

Forgive me but I don't remember what you've been saying about Rose. Perhaps you could clarify your take on Rose for us.

He has been vastly overrated and in no way should have been awarded the MVP. He still has a lot to prove and I mean especially in the shot selection category. He should work on deferring to KP6 and Melo and probably in that order. Twelve shots per game and a usage of no more edthan 25%. He also has some sketchy character issues which should give you pause. He also needs to find perimeter players on his reckless forays into the lane and not merely his pickers. Lastly, he needs to show a n eagerness to defend the position because he has flat out sucked at it his entire career. Since you almost never address defense you might dwell on that, especially since an eagerness to defend tends to be closely related to character.

Good article...

We shouldn't be arguing about Rose being MVP Rose.... he just needs to be the Rose he's always been. Which is the same player. He's a east to west player. Go hard to the rim. Anything else is gravy.

Bottom line, the Knicks got better. Hallelujah

EnySpree wrote:Good article...

We shouldn't be arguing about Rose being MVP Rose.... he just needs to be the Rose he's always been. Which is the same player. He's a east to west player. Go hard to the rim. Anything else is gravy.

Bottom line, the Knicks got better. Hallelujah

we better hope that he is not the player that he has been the last few years.

He will be the best PG NY has seen since Strickland ( here way too short)/ Frazier. NY is going to love the way Rose plays.

BigRedDog wrote:He will be the best PG NY has seen since Strickland ( here way too short)/ Frazier. NY is going to love the way Rose plays.

Harper! I liked Strickland, but he was a bit of a diva.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:He will be the best PG NY has seen since Strickland ( here way too short)/ Frazier. NY is going to love the way Rose plays.

Harper! I liked Strickland, but he was a bit of a diva.

Harper was here at the tail end of his career. Strickland should have played here his whole career. Pitino thought he was a diva also and got rid of him.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:Pretty much everything I have been saying. Thanks anyway.

Forgive me but I don't remember what you've been saying about Rose. Perhaps you could clarify your take on Rose for us.

He has been vastly overrated and in no way should have been awarded the MVP. He still has a lot to prove and I mean especially in the shot selection category. He should work on deferring to KP6 and Melo and probably in that order. Twelve shots per game and a usage of no more edthan 25%. He also has some sketchy character issues which should give you pause. He also needs to find perimeter players on his reckless forays into the lane and not merely his pickers. Lastly, he needs to show a n eagerness to defend the position because he has flat out sucked at it his entire career. Since you almost never address defense you might dwell on that, especially since an eagerness to defend tends to be closely related to character.

Hmmmmmmm i don't remember you saying all that. Link??

Derrick Rose was never really a shot creator so now JH will make him a shot creator or should I stop expecting Rose to be something he ever was?

All I am hoping for is him to be at beast Reggie Jackson but the knicks may get someone closer to Ray Felton. The bad thing is that Rose defense is awful and his back ups defense is pretty bad too. How can you be the defensive team you need to be when you lack the defensive players needed to defend the lead guards.

newyorker4ever wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:Pretty much everything I have been saying. Thanks anyway.

Forgive me but I don't remember what you've been saying about Rose. Perhaps you could clarify your take on Rose for us.

He has been vastly overrated and in no way should have been awarded the MVP. He still has a lot to prove and I mean especially in the shot selection category. He should work on deferring to KP6 and Melo and probably in that order. Twelve shots per game and a usage of no more edthan 25%. He also has some sketchy character issues which should give you pause. He also needs to find perimeter players on his reckless forays into the lane and not merely his pickers. Lastly, he needs to show a n eagerness to defend the position because he has flat out sucked at it his entire career. Since you almost never address defense you might dwell on that, especially since an eagerness to defend tends to be closely related to character.

Hmmmmmmm i don't remember you saying all that. Link??

Links to all of my posts on Rose? Not from a smartphone. Maybe somebody else can vouch in the meantime.

BigRedDog wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:He will be the best PG NY has seen since Strickland ( here way too short)/ Frazier. NY is going to love the way Rose plays.

Harper! I liked Strickland, but he was a bit of a diva.

Harper was here at the tail end of his career. Strickland should have played here his whole career. Pitino thought he was a diva also and got rid of him.

True about Harper. Stu Jackson wasn't a big fan of Strickland either. Rod asked to be traded. Thought it was a few years until Strickland came into his own, doubt the Knicks would have stuck it out with him. Remember this play? It cost the Spurs a trip to the Finals that year. Glad it wasn't us, lol.

while I agree with the basic premise of this article I also think it's a bit of bullshit too. Rose was the only guy who could score. And what he accomplished was even more difficult because they stacked the lane to deal with him. Maybe Karl Malone shouldn't have won his MVPs over Jordan but wtf... it doesn't mean he didn't have great seasons

yellowboy90 wrote:Derrick Rose was never really a shot creator so now JH will make him a shot creator or should I stop expecting Rose to be something he ever was?

All I am hoping for is him to be at beast Reggie Jackson but the knicks may get someone closer to Ray Felton. The bad thing is that Rose defense is awful and his back ups defense is pretty bad too. How can you be the defensive team you need to be when you lack the defensive players needed to defend the lead guards.

Rose is a very poor defender to be sure. We have to hope he can step it up a bit considering the very good defenders we have in Lee, KP and Noah in the Starting Lineup. Retaining Lance Thomas was important for his defense as well. At some point you have to accept the reality that it's impossible to put together a perfect team. You have to accept some flaws in players. It's easy to pick at the flaws a player has but then you have to also acknowledge that we didn't have a lot of better options!!!

Rose is still a top Push PG. He can get into the paint and draw defenders, with and without the ball. We needed that kind of player. By himself he got to the rim more than several of our guards combined. Hornacek needs that kind of guard in the way he wants to play. Hornacek wants this team to be very efficient offensively and he's aiming for a top 10 defensive team. We'll see if he can manage to get this team functioning on that level. A more focused version of Rose could do that.

Rose was highly efficient attacking the rim on Drives and shots on the move like Pull ups and Runners. Rose was terrible on standard jump shots. I don't know why but he's just not good as a stand still Jump Shooter. Hopefully JH has seen those stats and will make Rose aware of that. This is a breakdown of every single shot Rose took and you can clearly see which types of shots are lowering his efficiency!!!

                                                                                	        FGM     FGM 
Shot Type Detail	        FGM	FGA	FG%	3PM	3PA	3P%	eFG%	BLKA    %AST	%UAST
Cutting Layup Shot	        6	9	66.7	0	0	0.0	66.7	0	83.3	16.7
Driving Bank Hook Shot	        1	1	100	0	0	0.0	100	0	0.0	100
Driving Bank shot	        8	10	80.0	0	0	0.0	80.0	0	12.5	87.5
Driving Finger Roll Layup Shot	17	23	73.9	0	0	0.0	73.9	0	5.9	94.1
Driving Floating Bank Jump Shot	5	7	71.4	0	0	0.0	71.4	0	20.0	80.0
Driving Floating Jump Shot	18	29	62.1	0	0	0.0	62.1	0	50.0	50.0
Driving Hook Shot	        3	3	100	0	0	0.0	100	0	33.3	66.7
Driving Layup Shot	        95	170	55.9	0	0	0.0	55.9	15	20.0	80.0
Driving Reverse Layup Shot	13	20	65.0	0	0	0.0	65.0	2	30.8	69.2
Dunk Shot	                1	1	100	0	0	0.0	100	0	100	0.0
Fadeaway Bank shot	        3	4	75.0	0	0	0.0	75.0	0	0.0	100
Fadeaway Jump Shot	        3	5	60.0	0	0	0.0	60.0	0	33.3	66.7
Floating Jump shot	        37	72	51.4	0	0	0.0	51.4	2	18.9	81.1
Hook Shot	                0	1	0.0	0	0	0.0	0.0	0	0.0	0.0
Jump Bank Shot	                25	38	65.8	0	0	0.0	65.8	0	16.0	84.0
Jump Shot	                103	396	26.0	44	145	30.3	31.6	19	53.4	46.6
Layup Shot	                13	74	17.6	0	0	0.0	17.6	28	53.8	46.2
Pullup Bank shot	        9	16	56.3	0	0	0.0	56.3	0	11.1	88.9
Pullup Jump shot	        28	57	49.1	0	4	0.0	49.1	1	10.7	89.3
Putback Layup Shot	        3	5	60.0	0	0	0.0	60.0	0	0.0	100
Reverse Layup Shot	        4	8	50.0	0	0	0.0	50.0	3	0.0	100
Running Finger Roll Layup Shot	1	2	50.0	0	0	0.0	50.0	1	100	0.0
Running Jump Shot	        6	16	37.5	0	1	0.0	37.5	2	50.0	50.0
Running Layup Shot	        15	28	53.6	0	0	0.0	53.6	3	26.7	73.3
Running Pull-Up Jump Shot	2	2	100	0	0	0.0	100	0	0.0	100
Running Reverse Layup Shot	0	2	0.0	0	0	0.0	0.0	0	0.0	0.0
Step Back Bank Jump Shot	4	6	66.7	0	0	0.0	66.7	0	25.0	75.0
Step Back Jump shot	        13	27	48.1	0	0	0.0	48.1	0	7.7	92.3
Tip Layup Shot	                1	2	50.0	0	0	0.0	50.0	0	0.0	100
Turnaround Fadeaway shot	1	2	50.0	0	0	0.0	50.0	0	0.0	100
Turnaround Hook Shot	        1	3	33.3	0	0	0.0	33.3	0	0.0	100
Turnaround Jump Shot	        8	9	88.9	0	0	0.0	88.9	0	0.0	100

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201565/st...

GustavBahler wrote:Remember this play? It cost the Spurs a trip to the Finals that year. Glad it wasn't us, lol.

That may appear to be Strickland's fault but it's actually Sean Elliot's screw up. Any player from NYC like Strick that made eye contact with his man on the wing would've naturally expected his dude to cut to the basket catch the perfectly thrown dime and bang it home. If Strick was guilty of anything it was in NOT recognizing that it was soft as butter Elliot out there hanging around the perimeter eager to chuck up a three with no time left on the clock, instead of aggressively driving to the hole. Coastal differences i guess

Yeah, statistically, he was more like a top 10 player rather than the MVP that year.

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Good article...

We shouldn't be arguing about Rose being MVP Rose.... he just needs to be the Rose he's always been. Which is the same player. He's a east to west player. Go hard to the rim. Anything else is gravy.

Bottom line, the Knicks got better. Hallelujah

we better hope that he is not the player that he has been the last few years.

Last year he was 16 and 4 in 31 mins.... if he could do that then I want that. Health is a concern but he's due to have a healthy year.... plus it's his contract year

EnySpree wrote:

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Good article...

We shouldn't be arguing about Rose being MVP Rose.... he just needs to be the Rose he's always been. Which is the same player. He's a east to west player. Go hard to the rim. Anything else is gravy.

Bottom line, the Knicks got better. Hallelujah

we better hope that he is not the player that he has been the last few years.

Last year he was 16 and 4 in 31 mins.... if he could do that then I want that. Health is a concern but he's due to have a healthy year.... plus it's his contract year

how about if it was 16 points on 50 shots? How'd you like him then?