(I was born in 1980, so missed those 70s teams)
Awesome post. Happy birthday to Patrick. I wish he would be taken back into the fold with the Knicks.
some players are just not loved. It could be their personality or their on court persona. For me, my only issue with him was that he was a horrible and unwilling passer.
I still remember being so pumped when we drafted Ewing. I was so crushed when we lost in the Finals. In between there were so many great moments.
mreinman wrote:some players are just not loved. It could be their personality or their on court persona. For me, my only issue with him was that he was a horrible and unwilling passer.
That is a criticism often levied at him, and during his playing days i subscribed to this same popular view. But now looking at old game film and his stats in retrospect i realize that this view is simply not supported by facts.
He was the best we have ever had. And he wasn't truly appreciated until years later. He was blamed for playoff failures, and Knicks fans should have been better than that. it's too late to fully embrace Melo, hopefully KP will be embraced as he develops, and also when he hits bumps in the road.
I did dump on him in his later years but I sure as hell wanted him to retire a Knick, not get shipped off to the Sonic for Glen Rice and whoever else. I stopped watching the Knicks for a couple years after that. A 7 foot West Indian-American Art Student... he was my community pick! Happy Born Day #33!
Just watched 1994 conference finals. Ewing one of the best Knicks of my time. Happy Birthday.
Walt "Clyde" Frazier called me today to wish me a happy birthday, which is later in the month. He's still the greatest Knick of all time (but I'm biased).
reub wrote:Walt "Clyde" Frazier called me today to wish me a happy birthday, which is later in the month. He's still the greatest Knick of all time (but I'm biased).
I never got to see him play live. But he is certainly the greatest. Maybe the greatest game 7 in NBA history.
Patrick asked to be traded. Twas a shame how it ended.
On the court he was a great knick.
ewing worked hard on the court but did not work to properly develop his game off the court. instead of going to pete newell's big man camp to develop footwork and a passing game so he could become a better facilitator, he worked on a fadeaway jumpshot.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/sports...
that may be the single reason why both shaq and hakeem ended up being better than ewing-- the former two went to the big man's camp, while ewing remained in georgetown or did his own thing with his college coach. also, ewing was not a savvy player, and he lacked the clutch gene. lacking these two attributes effectively make him fall short of being the greatest knick, who is walt frazier.
Not in full agreement with Newells opinion as its hard to really measure. I mean, Ewing didn't go to see pete, so im sure he thinks he could have helped.
Really, Ewing had a history of not fully endearing himself to fans or the front office. He kind of pulled some Lebron type dyck moves. Im not even saying it was his fault but he did "Insist" knicks not rebuild and perhaps drove trades to suit his stats (I have read such things). For example he rejected Nellie because he'd get less touches on a running team. He forced Van Gundy on Knicks as well. That created the clash with JVG who catered to Ewing, with Earnie grunfeld who also wanted to go uptempo. Earnie build a run and gun team and when Ewing broke his wrist, he became untradeable. Ewing had some good stretch's of play, but the team had moved on. This is as much the knicks fault as Ewings, but its the root of the conflict in my opinion. Other than hire him as head coach, Knicks really have not been disrespectful.
Reality was fans loved him and Knicks were scared to move him earlier.
He was a warrior and a hard worker who promised us chips because its what NBA players say, and im sure he als believed. He would play hurt, which is cool, but also would not tell the team and thus he fell short. Why finger roll? Because his shoulder was burning in pain. Does it matter? I don't know.
Maybe if he was not coaching and just basking in the limelight doing other things Knicks could have bought him more into the fold. I admire his coaching ambition as he does not need the money, and from what I read he has been good with his money, and yes I wish he would get a head gig somewhere. Makes little sense to have bought him back prior. We have had other HOF players and HOF coach's fail to succeed here in that time. Patrick has not shown enough to be promoted on 29 other teams. Knicks did offer him the Dleague which he turned down. Greater men have paid higher dues. Not sure that was a good move for him, but that was his call.
Revisionist history and retro thinking is usually a nice thought, but execution is another story.
His number is retired and he is in the HOF. His ending legacy he has admitted was on him and he is on record as regretting how it ended with the knicks. Sometimes what drives us to greatness is what prevents our graceful end. Big ego is a necessary component for many to succeed.
He is loved by his fans and respected by the knicks organization to a reasonable extent. To what degree? Well, that's subjective. The more you love him, the more you want him to bring all kinds of winning promise if he returned to coach. Would fans be happier if he did coach, but then was fired? Would he have the good sense to know when to walk away? Or, would he eventually create "Another" bad departure?
It's funny, Ewing's said he felt the full weight of all the franchise saviour expectations, and honestly felt extremely bad that they didn't get over the hump the year MJ Ruth first retired. Yet he seemed to morph into something else later in his career, which is a shame. He was a limited player, and was always surrounded by other more limited players. Spree was really the first legit, two-way star he ever played with, and that was way too little, way too late. For both of them, unfortunately. I always enjoyed the fact he treated the media like the scum they mostly are.
And I will always wonder how he would have progressed with a healthy Bernard King next to him for that whole early growing period. We may not have become the whining, un-enabled fan base we are today.
Some of my best Knicks memories were with Ewing in a Knicks uniform, flaws and choke jobs and all. Dude had the Knicks in the playoffs seemingly every single year, no matter the roster composition. Some so called superstars like Melo can't even will his team to the playoffs in a bad Eastern conference.
He was a homegrown Knick, first overall pick, had those big truck like kicks "Ewings", played on the Dream Team, went to war against the greatest bigs in his era, and never complained or bitched about any injuries he played through. Sure, he wasn't the greatest passer out of the double team. Sure, he took like 8 steps on his signature drop step move. Sure, he came up short in the clutch at times, especially that finger roll against Indiana that he should've dunked.
The fact remains, he was our greatest Knick player not named Clyde, so I'll forever salute him.
ESOMKnicks wrote:mreinman wrote:some players are just not loved. It could be their personality or their on court persona. For me, my only issue with him was that he was a horrible and unwilling passer.
That is a criticism often levied at him, and during his playing days i subscribed to this same popular view. But now looking at old game film and his stats in retrospect i realize that this view is simply not supported by facts.
and what are your facts to refute this criticism?
Nalod wrote:Not in full agreement with Newells opinion as its hard to really measure. I mean, Ewing didn't go to see pete, so im sure he thinks he could have helped.Really, Ewing had a history of not fully endearing himself to fans or the front office. He kind of pulled some Lebron type dyck moves. Im not even saying it was his fault but he did "Insist" knicks not rebuild and perhaps drove trades to suit his stats (I have read such things). For example he rejected Nellie because he'd get less touches on a running team. He forced Van Gundy on Knicks as well. That created the clash with JVG who catered to Ewing, with Earnie grunfeld who also wanted to go uptempo. Earnie build a run and gun team and when Ewing broke his wrist, he became untradeable. Ewing had some good stretch's of play, but the team had moved on. This is as much the knicks fault as Ewings, but its the root of the conflict in my opinion. Other than hire him as head coach, Knicks really have not been disrespectful.
Reality was fans loved him and Knicks were scared to move him earlier.
He was a warrior and a hard worker who promised us chips because its what NBA players say, and im sure he als believed. He would play hurt, which is cool, but also would not tell the team and thus he fell short. Why finger roll? Because his shoulder was burning in pain. Does it matter? I don't know.
Maybe if he was not coaching and just basking in the limelight doing other things Knicks could have bought him more into the fold. I admire his coaching ambition as he does not need the money, and from what I read he has been good with his money, and yes I wish he would get a head gig somewhere. Makes little sense to have bought him back prior. We have had other HOF players and HOF coach's fail to succeed here in that time. Patrick has not shown enough to be promoted on 29 other teams. Knicks did offer him the Dleague which he turned down. Greater men have paid higher dues. Not sure that was a good move for him, but that was his call.
Revisionist history and retro thinking is usually a nice thought, but execution is another story.
His number is retired and he is in the HOF. His ending legacy he has admitted was on him and he is on record as regretting how it ended with the knicks. Sometimes what drives us to greatness is what prevents our graceful end. Big ego is a necessary component for many to succeed.
He is loved by his fans and respected by the knicks organization to a reasonable extent. To what degree? Well, that's subjective. The more you love him, the more you want him to bring all kinds of winning promise if he returned to coach. Would fans be happier if he did coach, but then was fired? Would he have the good sense to know when to walk away? Or, would he eventually create "Another" bad departure?
Jason Kidd and the Nets is a great example of why you don't give your franchise's star his first head coaching job. It would be nice if Ewing had a position in the organization. It appears that he wants to be a head coach and he has put in a lot of time on the bench. I don't think he gets his first job in NY. I believe the Knicks did offer him the d league head coaching job before the team moved to Westchester.
Happy Birthday Patrick. I was excited when we drafted you, and sad to see things go the way they did. We were always good enough to win because of you, but never had enough talent to get over the hump.
Sadly, you weren't the greatest player talent wise when you played, but you gave it all and more.
I'd love to see you get that HC role - sadly I don't see it happening here.
ChuckBuck wrote:Some of my best Knicks memories were with Ewing in a Knicks uniform, flaws and choke jobs and all. Dude had the Knicks in the playoffs seemingly every single year, no matter the roster composition. Some so called superstars like Melo can't even will his team to the playoffs in a bad Eastern conference.He was a homegrown Knick, first overall pick, had those big truck like kicks "Ewings", played on the Dream Team, went to war against the greatest bigs in his era, and never complained or bitched about any injuries he played through. Sure, he wasn't the greatest passer out of the double team. Sure, he took like 8 steps on his signature drop step move. Sure, he came up short in the clutch at times, especially that finger roll against Indiana that he should've dunked.
The fact remains, he was our greatest Knick player not named Clyde, so I'll forever salute him.
Do you include Melo in all conversations in all facets of your life?
Nalod wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Some of my best Knicks memories were with Ewing in a Knicks uniform, flaws and choke jobs and all. Dude had the Knicks in the playoffs seemingly every single year, no matter the roster composition. Some so called superstars like Melo can't even will his team to the playoffs in a bad Eastern conference.He was a homegrown Knick, first overall pick, had those big truck like kicks "Ewings", played on the Dream Team, went to war against the greatest bigs in his era, and never complained or bitched about any injuries he played through. Sure, he wasn't the greatest passer out of the double team. Sure, he took like 8 steps on his signature drop step move. Sure, he came up short in the clutch at times, especially that finger roll against Indiana that he should've dunked.
The fact remains, he was our greatest Knick player not named Clyde, so I'll forever salute him.
Do you include Melo in all conversations in all facets of your life?
Depends. Sometimes I'm KD, sometimes I'm Jimmy Buckets. I'm grumpy ass Melo, only when I see him play.
Nalod wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Some of my best Knicks memories were with Ewing in a Knicks uniform, flaws and choke jobs and all. Dude had the Knicks in the playoffs seemingly every single year, no matter the roster composition. Some so called superstars like Melo can't even will his team to the playoffs in a bad Eastern conference.He was a homegrown Knick, first overall pick, had those big truck like kicks "Ewings", played on the Dream Team, went to war against the greatest bigs in his era, and never complained or bitched about any injuries he played through. Sure, he wasn't the greatest passer out of the double team. Sure, he took like 8 steps on his signature drop step move. Sure, he came up short in the clutch at times, especially that finger roll against Indiana that he should've dunked.
The fact remains, he was our greatest Knick player not named Clyde, so I'll forever salute him.
Do you include Melo in all conversations in all facets of your life?
Prototypical jilted fanboy disorder. The truly dedicated can obviously become the most psychotic anti-fan.
Nothing as terrible as a groupie scorned. I just wonder what the actual tipping point was. Or maybe I don't.
I mean, I know some still hold onto the Mardy Collins incident, but that can't apply in this case.
