Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
ChuckBuck@ 8/29/2016 11:11 AM
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
SupremeCommander@ 8/29/2016 11:54 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
absolutely
SupremeCommander@ 8/29/2016 11:56 AM
KP is important. I see our international signings and Jennings as being important too. They are the only guys on the orster that have a chance to outplay their contracts
nixluva@ 8/29/2016 12:32 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
I'm sorry but this Knicks roster is better than his Chicago Roster. It's not just the talent but the FIT of the players. You need to not just look at the names but how they fit basketball wise. This Knicks roster makes much more sense. for example the fit of Butler and Rose vs. Rose and Lee. Butler is a real talent but his style as it's developed is not as great next to Rose as he also needs the ball. Lee on the other hand doesn't need the ball to be effective and is a much more willing and capable Catch and Shoot player. Their games don't clash.
Butler
General Range GP G Freq FGM FGA FG% eFG% Freq 2FGM 2FGA 2FG% Freq 3PM 3PA 3P% Catch and Shoot 67 62 17.8% 0.9 2.8 34.2 44.3 5.7% 0.4 0.9 44.1 12.1% 0.6 1.9 29.6 Pull Ups 67 67 37.8% 2.1 5.8 36.3 39.5 30.5% 1.8 4.7 37.1 7.4% 0.4 1.1 32.9 Less than 10 ft 67 67 42.6% 3.9 6.6 58.6 58.6 42.6% 3.9 6.6 58.6 0.0% 0.0 0.0 - Other 67 18 1.8% 0.1 0.3 36.8 42.1 1.4% 0.1 0.2 35.7 0.5% 0.0 0.1 40.0
Lee
General Range GP G Freq FGM FGA FG% eFG% Freq 2FGM 2FGA 2FG% Freq 3PM 3PA 3P% Catch and Shoot 79 75 40.5% 1.3 3.3 40.5 56.2 9.1% 0.3 0.7 41.4 31.5% 1.0 2.5 40.3 Pull Ups 79 74 30.2% 1.0 2.4 42.5 42.7 28.3% 1.0 2.3 44.8 1.9% 0.0 0.1 8.3 Less than 10 ft 79 69 28.3% 1.3 2.3 56.9 56.9 28.3% 1.3 2.3 56.9 0.0% 0.0 0.0 - Other 79 5 0.9% 0.0 0.1 0.0 0.0 0.3% 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.6% 0.0 0.1 0.0
Another example is how KP fits since he's much more capable on the perimeter. KP is faster and more agile as well. Pau is big and slow and his presence forced Noah to play PF which he's not able to do. This fit is much better for the aging Noah since he can play C and KP can play both PF and C when Noah sits.
EnySpree@ 8/29/2016 1:16 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
But isn't that the same thing?
I don't want the kid to be anointed yet... right now we need a collective where all 3 cab be successful. Let the chips fall where they should.
Rose has played with alot of good players. Melo might be the best individual scorer he's ever played with. Definitely the best small fwds. KP right now is the best power fwd he's ever played with. Noah is his boy and a top 5 center when healthy. Courtney Lee is as solid as the come at the 2 without demanding shots. The bench is more than solid.
What the problem is?!?!?!?!?
Nalod@ 8/29/2016 1:28 PM
EnySpree wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
But isn't that the same thing?
I don't want the kid to be anointed yet... right now we need a collective where all 3 cab be successful. Let the chips fall where they should.
Rose has played with alot of good players. Melo might be the best individual scorer he's ever played with. Definitely the best small fwds. KP right now is the best power fwd he's ever played with. Noah is his boy and a top 5 center when healthy. Courtney Lee is as solid as the come at the 2 without demanding shots. The bench is more than solid.
What the problem is?!?!?!?!?
"its August"......Chucky BooBoo is all in a tiff because Melo is rolling in his Bathrobe and Chucky is now a "fashionista" snit poster who now has taste?
Put Nixluva and ChuckyBucky in corner and they will argue all day.
News flash: Chuck don't like Melo!!!!!!
jrodmc@ 8/29/2016 1:36 PM
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
But isn't that the same thing?
I don't want the kid to be anointed yet... right now we need a collective where all 3 cab be successful. Let the chips fall where they should.
Rose has played with alot of good players. Melo might be the best individual scorer he's ever played with. Definitely the best small fwds. KP right now is the best power fwd he's ever played with. Noah is his boy and a top 5 center when healthy. Courtney Lee is as solid as the come at the 2 without demanding shots. The bench is more than solid.
What the problem is?!?!?!?!?
"its August"......Chucky BooBoo is all in a tiff because Melo is rolling in his Bathrobe and Chucky is now a "fashionista" snit poster who now has taste?
Put Nixluva and ChuckyBucky in corner and they will argue all day.
News flash: Chuck don't like Melo!!!!!!
Difference is, nixluva posts statistical facts to support his posts while Chucky reposts old Splat pics to support his.
And this just in: Chucky likes the Kid Unicorn!!!!! Alot!!!
ChuckBuck@ 8/29/2016 2:55 PM
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
But isn't that the same thing?
I don't want the kid to be anointed yet... right now we need a collective where all 3 cab be successful. Let the chips fall where they should.
Rose has played with alot of good players. Melo might be the best individual scorer he's ever played with. Definitely the best small fwds. KP right now is the best power fwd he's ever played with. Noah is his boy and a top 5 center when healthy. Courtney Lee is as solid as the come at the 2 without demanding shots. The bench is more than solid.
What the problem is?!?!?!?!?
"its August"......Chucky BooBoo is all in a tiff because Melo is rolling in his Bathrobe and Chucky is now a "fashionista" snit poster who now has taste?
Put Nixluva and ChuckyBucky in corner and they will argue all day.
News flash: Chuck don't like Melo!!!!!!
Come on, where's your Knicks spirit. Melo's the GOAT!!!
knicks1248@ 8/29/2016 6:01 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
GASOL, and butler played with Rose who was in and out of the line up, the system was also different, and gasol or butler cant stretch the floor like lee, melo, and KP, that leaves the lane wide open, with the best passing big man in the game today.
All those cuts to the basket that saw calderon, prigs, running pass the basket to end up right back out on the perimeter.
Or grant tripping up in the paint, and making a bad decision either getting his shot swatted by a 7 footer, or coughing it with a bad pass..
nixluva@ 8/29/2016 6:28 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
GASOL, and butler played with Rose who was in and out of the line up, the system was also different, and gasol or butler cant stretch the floor like lee, melo, and KP, that leaves the lane wide open, with the best passing big man in the game today.
All those cuts to the basket that saw calderon, prigs, running pass the basket to end up right back out on the perimeter.
Or grant tripping up in the paint, and making a bad decision either getting his shot swatted by a 7 footer, or coughing it with a bad pass..
Yeah it's a MASSIVE difference between what we had and what kind of ability is on this roster now. Sometimes people look at the stats and don't really pay attention to HOW a player plays. Case in point is Afflalo and Lee. If you look at the stats it doesn't seem like there's much difference between them, however when you dig deeper into how each of them play there's a huge difference between them. In terms of how Lee fits into this team he's a much better player for the way Hornacek is looking to play. He's a 3nD SG and he's able to impact the game without having to hold onto the ball.
Lee's usage is lower and his defensive rating is higher. In comparison with Butler, Lee is more of a Catch and Shoot player, which fits better next to Ball Dominant PG's like Rose and Jennings. So IMO it's really about fit. There's great balance with this roster and the players make sense together. The players now fit what we know of how Hornacek wants to play.
knicks1248@ 8/29/2016 10:38 PM
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
nixluva wrote:Bucher actually admitted what so many are reluctant to talk about in that Rose is playing with Melo and KP who are legit talents. There's the potential for this team to be a playoff team and make some real noise.
So Butler and Pau aren't legit talents??? Butler > Melo and KP at the moment?!?! Pau is a HOF champion winner.
You guys have to temper your expectations for Rose and direct it more to the ascension of KP, he's the key.
GASOL, and butler played with Rose who was in and out of the line up, the system was also different, and gasol or butler cant stretch the floor like lee, melo, and KP, that leaves the lane wide open, with the best passing big man in the game today.
All those cuts to the basket that saw calderon, prigs, running pass the basket to end up right back out on the perimeter.
Or grant tripping up in the paint, and making a bad decision either getting his shot swatted by a 7 footer, or coughing it with a bad pass..
Yeah it's a MASSIVE difference between what we had and what kind of ability is on this roster now. Sometimes people look at the stats and don't really pay attention to HOW a player plays. Case in point is Afflalo and Lee. If you look at the stats it doesn't seem like there's much difference between them, however when you dig deeper into how each of them play there's a huge difference between them. In terms of how Lee fits into this team he's a much better player for the way Hornacek is looking to play. He's a 3nD SG and he's able to impact the game without having to hold onto the ball.
Lee's usage is lower and his defensive rating is higher. In comparison with Butler, Lee is more of a Catch and Shoot player, which fits better next to Ball Dominant PG's like Rose and Jennings. So IMO it's really about fit. There's great balance with this roster and the players make sense together. The players now fit what we know of how Hornacek wants to play.
We tried to use AA as if he had the length and height like Kobe and Mike, putting him in half court post up set on almost all of his touches.
Thats been the biggest Blunder of phils tenure, always changing the player, not the system.
I do believe that if we run the triangle anything remotely close to how rambis ran it, ROSE WILL SUFFER.
Paris907@ 8/29/2016 10:46 PM
There are weapons but... Melo at 32 is slower and slow. Minutes need to be curtailed. KP I love sure but let's not bring the kid around too fast. He need time at 5 and let's see if he gets it. (What are willy G among others around for?). Bigger issue for Rose is not the first unit but the Unknowns at the second. Sure Lance is pretty solid 2 way player but Mindy? He's an unknown and so is Jennings who I like lots. He's coming off a big time injury. So Willy G/ Mindy/ Jennings? Lance and who? Holiday? Doesn't scare me not yet anyway
CrushAlot@ 8/29/2016 11:08 PM
Paris907 wrote:There are weapons but... Melo at 32 is slower and slow. Minutes need to be curtailed. KP I love sure but let's not bring the kid around too fast. He need time at 5 and let's see if he gets it. (What are willy G among others around for?). Bigger issue for Rose is not the first unit but the Unknowns at the second. Sure Lance is pretty solid 2 way player but Mindy? He's an unknown and so is Jennings who I like lots. He's coming off a big time injury. So Willy G/ Mindy/ Jennings? Lance and who? Holiday? Doesn't scare me not yet anyway
I think the second unit will be Jennings, Lance, Holiday, O'Quinn and Mindy or NDour. I have been listening to a lot of podcasts and trying to read up as much as I can about this team. Lance, Holiday, O'Quinn are all guys that people who have covered them on and/or before the the Knicks are pretty high on. I think Jennings has a shot at sixth man of the year. I also think Sasha in a bench role isn't a bad guy to have around.
StarksEwing1@ 8/30/2016 8:22 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Paris907 wrote:There are weapons but... Melo at 32 is slower and slow. Minutes need to be curtailed. KP I love sure but let's not bring the kid around too fast. He need time at 5 and let's see if he gets it. (What are willy G among others around for?). Bigger issue for Rose is not the first unit but the Unknowns at the second. Sure Lance is pretty solid 2 way player but Mindy? He's an unknown and so is Jennings who I like lots. He's coming off a big time injury. So Willy G/ Mindy/ Jennings? Lance and who? Holiday? Doesn't scare me not yet anyway
I think the second unit will be Jennings, Lance, Holiday, O'Quinn and Mindy or NDour. I have been listening to a lot of podcasts and trying to read up as much as I can about this team. Lance, Holiday, O'Quinn are all guys that people who have covered them on and/or before the the Knicks are pretty high on. I think Jennings has a shot at sixth man of the year. I also think Sasha in a bench role isn't a bad guy to have around.
I agree about Jennings being a 6th man of the year candidate. However knowing Rose's injury history I have a feeling Jennings will be starting a lot more
nyknickzingis@ 8/30/2016 8:40 AM
Rose has played with very good teams. The talent in NY is not better in terms of 1 on 1 ability than what he had in Chicago. Where I see a difference is role recognition. I feel these Knicks are very balanced.
Noah - Center that will protect the basket, defend, rebound, set hard screens and pass. Not a shot creator, but can finish inside if given space.
Porzingis - Stretch big. Very important for DRose because he is a driving PG and needs the paint open. Same for Jennings. If you have a big that can constantly stretch the floor, you are going to have great opportunities for either scores off drives or kick outs to an open man.
Melo - While Butler was a fantastic player and may even be better than Melo in general, Melo is the better closer. Melo has shown clear ability to be a point forward and dictate a game both with his scoring and passing. That's a level of guy Rose has not played with.
Lee - Fantastic 2-way role player. Just can catch and shoot 3 pointers on kick outs or feeds or give you the occasional dribble drive to the basket. He is a very good backcourt mate for Rose because he will not try to create many shots, instead play off Rose.
I think on paper this team is extremely talented. It's about what their health will be like. We even have players we don't know what they can give and they can be X factors. Guys like Jennings, Kuzminskas, Willy, etc.
I am very excited about this season.
Vmart@ 8/30/2016 8:42 AM
Knicks have better catch and shoot players than the Bulls did. Melo is probably much better when he is just catching and shooting as is KP. I can see Rose having a easier way to the basket and he can pass so he will make everyone better.
nixluva@ 8/30/2016 12:33 PM
Vmart wrote:Knicks have better catch and shoot players than the Bulls did. Melo is probably much better when he is just catching and shooting as is KP. I can see Rose having a easier way to the basket and he can pass so he will make everyone better.
THIS! That's exactly what I showed above in comparing Butler and Lee. Sure Butler is a better talent but not a better FIT next to Rose. Lee is a far superior Catch and Shoot player and that makes a HUGE difference. Then you think about Melo and KP and it's going to be MUCH harder to stop the Knicks offense.
As for Rose in the Triangle, he's already played in Triangle under Thibs. There's video of him in the Triangle on and off the ball. He'll be just fine cuz he attacks the D off the dribble hand off and cuts!!!
Welpee@ 8/31/2016 4:27 PM
nixluva wrote:As for Rose in the Triangle, he's already played in Triangle under Thibs. There's video of him in the Triangle on and off the ball. He'll be just fine cuz he attacks the D off the dribble hand off and cuts!!!
Exactly! Why people who get paid to know this stuff don't point this out I will never know!
jrodmc@ 9/1/2016 4:33 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Rose has played with very good teams. The talent in NY is not better in terms of 1 on 1 ability than what he had in Chicago. Where I see a difference is role recognition. I feel these Knicks are very balanced.
Noah - Center that will protect the basket, defend, rebound, set hard screens and pass. Not a shot creator, but can finish inside if given space.
Porzingis - Stretch big. Very important for DRose because he is a driving PG and needs the paint open. Same for Jennings. If you have a big that can constantly stretch the floor, you are going to have great opportunities for either scores off drives or kick outs to an open man.
Melo - While Butler was a fantastic player and may even be better than Melo in general, Melo is the better closer. Melo has shown clear ability to be a point forward and dictate a game both with his scoring and passing. That's a level of guy Rose has not played with.
Lee - Fantastic 2-way role player. Just can catch and shoot 3 pointers on kick outs or feeds or give you the occasional dribble drive to the basket. He is a very good backcourt mate for Rose because he will not try to create many shots, instead play off Rose.
I think on paper this team is extremely talented. It's about what their health will be like. We even have players we don't know what they can give and they can be X factors. Guys like Jennings, Kuzminskas, Willy, etc.
I am very excited about this season.
+1, excellent points. The bench you mention is full of those yoots plus Lance Thomas, and should prove much more exciting as well.
And the Melohaters sort of salute you for mentioning KP ahead of Me7o, but hate you for mentioning the DOUCHE at all in this context.
