Knicks · Article: Derrick Rose Has Plenty Left In The Tank (page 2)
dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:either way Rose isnt as important as KP or melo. If Rose gets hurt(likely) we still have jennings. However in order to go anywhere this year we need KP and melo healthy the whole wayStarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:i understand your point BUT there is a big difference between doing normal everyday things and being a nba point guard after so many injuries...it takes it toll as a player. Now i think Rose will still be effective but him lasting a whole season is a question mark. Im not being negative at all just trying to be objective. I hope he lasts the whole yearStarksEwing1 wrote:EnySpree wrote:The only concern we should have with Rose is none.....There is injury concern for sure. Its not being negative just being honest from his history1. He's not a bum. Even if he's lost a step, that still makes him a top 10 point guard. He's on Teague, Conley level. 16/5 production possibly more which would make him a top 5-8 pg.
2. He's a injury risk but that's why we signed Brandon Jennings. Nothing else to say with that. The Knicks covered their bases.
3. His rape trial most likely will be postponed til after the season. He won't miss any games because of it.
Have you or anybody else had multiple serious injuries back to back? Ever wonder why someone like myself, who's had multiple injuries back to back, is not as concerned as others with Rose. Maybe thats why I'm more optimistic than most, because I've experience this before. And we've seen others like Westbrook come back from a similar injury. We have to stop looking at his last injury, because it wasn't related to his knee. From what I can tell, his knee has been holding up for multiple years now. So why the concern all of a sudden? Rose is not the main guy anymore....And he doesn't have to prove himself offensively like in the past. He doesn't have to play major minutes anymore.....He doesn't have to carry the team....And his knees has been healthy for over 2 years or more (whenever he had his last knee surgery). He's only 27.
I'm 43....had multiple surgeries back to back (mid and late 30's).....It's been 2-3 years since the last surgery and I'm still killing at 43.....Rose will be fine at 28. Some people have the genetics and others don't. I believe Rose is not only physically healed (he's already proved that last year).....But he's now working on mental healing. His goal is not to score 20+.....It's to play all 82 games of the regular season injury free. And if you look at the games played, each year it's more and more games of being injury free. Last year was 60 something games.....Which is very encouraging for fans and more importantly himself. This year will be less impactful on his body, because of the system and talent around him. I'm not worried about Rose now or in the future (in this system and around this talent).
He has the potential to get injured just like everybody else. Basketball is a brutle sport, especially if you don't take care of yourself. I believe Rose has reached that point of maturity, and he will become a normal player again. One more knee injury might be it for him, and I'm sure that was on his mind last year. Hopefully this year he's now mentally healed, which is the key to injury recovery.
If I didn't have experience with basketball injuries, I would be skeptical as well. And I agree with your comparison of me and rose the NBA player. I'm not under the same pressure and stress to carry an NBA team like rose. But I am an expert in basketball injuries and recovery. One thing I find out is that injuries and stress are very much related. And rose has been through a lot of stress playing in his home town and still running with his boys chasing girls. My injury occurred during a very stressful time in my marriage. So if my philosophy is correct (its all a big guess...no one knows the future) I think his maturity has improved due to this rape case....his stress to carry a team is reduced......and he's away from his hometown family and friends pressure in NYC. Its like when God gives you a second chance, usually u take advantage of that. At 28 is the time when everything starts to click.....so I believe rose will be fi e this year....
The million dollar question is what's rose value if he plays this year like an all star player? That's the only thing I can't answer.....will he sign a discount contract? And what is a discount?
+1 and i really don't like the notion of this being rose's team and letting rose be rose. he should be less self-serving and find a way to adjust his game while serving the knicks' franchise player, kp6. that is his path to redemption. of course, the federal court may have something to say about that if rose refuses to settle a quite sordid sexual assault charge.
From what I've read.....sounds like you are agreeing with rose. Not sure why this is being stressed. He talks highly of melo and KP. Don't think rose feels this is his team.
I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:either way Rose isnt as important as KP or melo. If Rose gets hurt(likely) we still have jennings. However in order to go anywhere this year we need KP and melo healthy the whole wayStarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:i understand your point BUT there is a big difference between doing normal everyday things and being a nba point guard after so many injuries...it takes it toll as a player. Now i think Rose will still be effective but him lasting a whole season is a question mark. Im not being negative at all just trying to be objective. I hope he lasts the whole yearStarksEwing1 wrote:EnySpree wrote:The only concern we should have with Rose is none.....There is injury concern for sure. Its not being negative just being honest from his history1. He's not a bum. Even if he's lost a step, that still makes him a top 10 point guard. He's on Teague, Conley level. 16/5 production possibly more which would make him a top 5-8 pg.
2. He's a injury risk but that's why we signed Brandon Jennings. Nothing else to say with that. The Knicks covered their bases.
3. His rape trial most likely will be postponed til after the season. He won't miss any games because of it.
Have you or anybody else had multiple serious injuries back to back? Ever wonder why someone like myself, who's had multiple injuries back to back, is not as concerned as others with Rose. Maybe thats why I'm more optimistic than most, because I've experience this before. And we've seen others like Westbrook come back from a similar injury. We have to stop looking at his last injury, because it wasn't related to his knee. From what I can tell, his knee has been holding up for multiple years now. So why the concern all of a sudden? Rose is not the main guy anymore....And he doesn't have to prove himself offensively like in the past. He doesn't have to play major minutes anymore.....He doesn't have to carry the team....And his knees has been healthy for over 2 years or more (whenever he had his last knee surgery). He's only 27.
I'm 43....had multiple surgeries back to back (mid and late 30's).....It's been 2-3 years since the last surgery and I'm still killing at 43.....Rose will be fine at 28. Some people have the genetics and others don't. I believe Rose is not only physically healed (he's already proved that last year).....But he's now working on mental healing. His goal is not to score 20+.....It's to play all 82 games of the regular season injury free. And if you look at the games played, each year it's more and more games of being injury free. Last year was 60 something games.....Which is very encouraging for fans and more importantly himself. This year will be less impactful on his body, because of the system and talent around him. I'm not worried about Rose now or in the future (in this system and around this talent).
He has the potential to get injured just like everybody else. Basketball is a brutle sport, especially if you don't take care of yourself. I believe Rose has reached that point of maturity, and he will become a normal player again. One more knee injury might be it for him, and I'm sure that was on his mind last year. Hopefully this year he's now mentally healed, which is the key to injury recovery.
If I didn't have experience with basketball injuries, I would be skeptical as well. And I agree with your comparison of me and rose the NBA player. I'm not under the same pressure and stress to carry an NBA team like rose. But I am an expert in basketball injuries and recovery. One thing I find out is that injuries and stress are very much related. And rose has been through a lot of stress playing in his home town and still running with his boys chasing girls. My injury occurred during a very stressful time in my marriage. So if my philosophy is correct (its all a big guess...no one knows the future) I think his maturity has improved due to this rape case....his stress to carry a team is reduced......and he's away from his hometown family and friends pressure in NYC. Its like when God gives you a second chance, usually u take advantage of that. At 28 is the time when everything starts to click.....so I believe rose will be fi e this year....
The million dollar question is what's rose value if he plays this year like an all star player? That's the only thing I can't answer.....will he sign a discount contract? And what is a discount?
+1 and i really don't like the notion of this being rose's team and letting rose be rose. he should be less self-serving and find a way to adjust his game while serving the knicks' franchise player, kp6. that is his path to redemption. of course, the federal court may have something to say about that if rose refuses to settle a quite sordid sexual assault charge.
Why don't you get up to speed? Rose has CLEARLY stated that he intends to be more of a distributor with all the talent around him. I've shown that he's done it before and I have no doubt that Rose can do it again. As for being aggressive, Rose has to still be the player he has been in terms of driving the ball. This was a MAJOR weakness for this team so having Rose will change this team's aggressiveness for the better!
This is about Rose helping to make things easier for everyone. He can do that in Hornacek's schemes and I trust JH to be able to help Rose and all of our guards perform at a high level. In JH's schemes everyone is involved so I think your fears are overstated.
WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
If he is found guilty in court then that would change a lot.
nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:either way Rose isnt as important as KP or melo. If Rose gets hurt(likely) we still have jennings. However in order to go anywhere this year we need KP and melo healthy the whole wayStarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:i understand your point BUT there is a big difference between doing normal everyday things and being a nba point guard after so many injuries...it takes it toll as a player. Now i think Rose will still be effective but him lasting a whole season is a question mark. Im not being negative at all just trying to be objective. I hope he lasts the whole yearStarksEwing1 wrote:EnySpree wrote:The only concern we should have with Rose is none.....There is injury concern for sure. Its not being negative just being honest from his history1. He's not a bum. Even if he's lost a step, that still makes him a top 10 point guard. He's on Teague, Conley level. 16/5 production possibly more which would make him a top 5-8 pg.
2. He's a injury risk but that's why we signed Brandon Jennings. Nothing else to say with that. The Knicks covered their bases.
3. His rape trial most likely will be postponed til after the season. He won't miss any games because of it.
Have you or anybody else had multiple serious injuries back to back? Ever wonder why someone like myself, who's had multiple injuries back to back, is not as concerned as others with Rose. Maybe thats why I'm more optimistic than most, because I've experience this before. And we've seen others like Westbrook come back from a similar injury. We have to stop looking at his last injury, because it wasn't related to his knee. From what I can tell, his knee has been holding up for multiple years now. So why the concern all of a sudden? Rose is not the main guy anymore....And he doesn't have to prove himself offensively like in the past. He doesn't have to play major minutes anymore.....He doesn't have to carry the team....And his knees has been healthy for over 2 years or more (whenever he had his last knee surgery). He's only 27.
I'm 43....had multiple surgeries back to back (mid and late 30's).....It's been 2-3 years since the last surgery and I'm still killing at 43.....Rose will be fine at 28. Some people have the genetics and others don't. I believe Rose is not only physically healed (he's already proved that last year).....But he's now working on mental healing. His goal is not to score 20+.....It's to play all 82 games of the regular season injury free. And if you look at the games played, each year it's more and more games of being injury free. Last year was 60 something games.....Which is very encouraging for fans and more importantly himself. This year will be less impactful on his body, because of the system and talent around him. I'm not worried about Rose now or in the future (in this system and around this talent).
He has the potential to get injured just like everybody else. Basketball is a brutle sport, especially if you don't take care of yourself. I believe Rose has reached that point of maturity, and he will become a normal player again. One more knee injury might be it for him, and I'm sure that was on his mind last year. Hopefully this year he's now mentally healed, which is the key to injury recovery.
If I didn't have experience with basketball injuries, I would be skeptical as well. And I agree with your comparison of me and rose the NBA player. I'm not under the same pressure and stress to carry an NBA team like rose. But I am an expert in basketball injuries and recovery. One thing I find out is that injuries and stress are very much related. And rose has been through a lot of stress playing in his home town and still running with his boys chasing girls. My injury occurred during a very stressful time in my marriage. So if my philosophy is correct (its all a big guess...no one knows the future) I think his maturity has improved due to this rape case....his stress to carry a team is reduced......and he's away from his hometown family and friends pressure in NYC. Its like when God gives you a second chance, usually u take advantage of that. At 28 is the time when everything starts to click.....so I believe rose will be fi e this year....
The million dollar question is what's rose value if he plays this year like an all star player? That's the only thing I can't answer.....will he sign a discount contract? And what is a discount?
+1 and i really don't like the notion of this being rose's team and letting rose be rose. he should be less self-serving and find a way to adjust his game while serving the knicks' franchise player, kp6. that is his path to redemption. of course, the federal court may have something to say about that if rose refuses to settle a quite sordid sexual assault charge.
Why don't you get up to speed? Rose has CLEARLY stated that he intends to be more of a distributor with all the talent around him. I've shown that he's done it before and I have no doubt that Rose can do it again. As for being aggressive, Rose has to still be the player he has been in terms of driving the ball. This was a MAJOR weakness for this team so having Rose will change this team's aggressiveness for the better!
This is about Rose helping to make things easier for everyone. He can do that in Hornacek's schemes and I trust JH to be able to help Rose and all of our guards perform at a high level. In JH's schemes everyone is involved so I think your fears are overstated.
words and deeds. talk is cheap. driving the ball on semi- or full breaks is his greatest value, especially since melo is in good post-olympic shape and should flash out to the three like hornacek wants him to.
as to the rest of rose's game, his path to redemption is not to be so self-serving in pursuing another big contract by trying to be the old rose. in reality if he wants to remain a knick player he needs to attenuate his half-court game and be sure his agenda is being in service to the knicks and their future franchise player.
his usage must be below 25%, his fga must be no more than 14 a game, preferable 12, and his TS% must rise to 54-55%. if he hits these marks while dishing 5 assists a game in 28 minutes per game, he will be a member in good standing, despite being a defensive sieve, and should be resigned to a 2 year contract at about 14 million a year.
alternatively, if his usage is closer to 28-30% and his fga are closer to 16-17 a game, while his TS% remains below 50%, he should be grabbed by the collar and belt and frog marched out of new york as soon as the season is over.
newyorknewyork wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
If he is found guilty in court then that would change a lot.
He is not on trial for criminal charges. This is not about him being guilty of rape, its to determine if he is liable for monetary compensation.
So if he is found liable, he'll have to write a check. No jail, no probation, no registration as a sexual predator or criminal record.
WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
he isn't charged with rape but with sexual assault and while both seem criminal, he is not in criminal court but civil court. i am not sure but his guilt may hinge on whether her testimony of being drugged holds up in court. right now his "team" is trying to smear her character, which does not seem like a viable defense. that's why i feel he should pay her off before the season starts and not look back, focussing on his job.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:either way Rose isnt as important as KP or melo. If Rose gets hurt(likely) we still have jennings. However in order to go anywhere this year we need KP and melo healthy the whole wayStarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:i understand your point BUT there is a big difference between doing normal everyday things and being a nba point guard after so many injuries...it takes it toll as a player. Now i think Rose will still be effective but him lasting a whole season is a question mark. Im not being negative at all just trying to be objective. I hope he lasts the whole yearStarksEwing1 wrote:EnySpree wrote:The only concern we should have with Rose is none.....There is injury concern for sure. Its not being negative just being honest from his history1. He's not a bum. Even if he's lost a step, that still makes him a top 10 point guard. He's on Teague, Conley level. 16/5 production possibly more which would make him a top 5-8 pg.
2. He's a injury risk but that's why we signed Brandon Jennings. Nothing else to say with that. The Knicks covered their bases.
3. His rape trial most likely will be postponed til after the season. He won't miss any games because of it.
Have you or anybody else had multiple serious injuries back to back? Ever wonder why someone like myself, who's had multiple injuries back to back, is not as concerned as others with Rose. Maybe thats why I'm more optimistic than most, because I've experience this before. And we've seen others like Westbrook come back from a similar injury. We have to stop looking at his last injury, because it wasn't related to his knee. From what I can tell, his knee has been holding up for multiple years now. So why the concern all of a sudden? Rose is not the main guy anymore....And he doesn't have to prove himself offensively like in the past. He doesn't have to play major minutes anymore.....He doesn't have to carry the team....And his knees has been healthy for over 2 years or more (whenever he had his last knee surgery). He's only 27.
I'm 43....had multiple surgeries back to back (mid and late 30's).....It's been 2-3 years since the last surgery and I'm still killing at 43.....Rose will be fine at 28. Some people have the genetics and others don't. I believe Rose is not only physically healed (he's already proved that last year).....But he's now working on mental healing. His goal is not to score 20+.....It's to play all 82 games of the regular season injury free. And if you look at the games played, each year it's more and more games of being injury free. Last year was 60 something games.....Which is very encouraging for fans and more importantly himself. This year will be less impactful on his body, because of the system and talent around him. I'm not worried about Rose now or in the future (in this system and around this talent).
He has the potential to get injured just like everybody else. Basketball is a brutle sport, especially if you don't take care of yourself. I believe Rose has reached that point of maturity, and he will become a normal player again. One more knee injury might be it for him, and I'm sure that was on his mind last year. Hopefully this year he's now mentally healed, which is the key to injury recovery.
If I didn't have experience with basketball injuries, I would be skeptical as well. And I agree with your comparison of me and rose the NBA player. I'm not under the same pressure and stress to carry an NBA team like rose. But I am an expert in basketball injuries and recovery. One thing I find out is that injuries and stress are very much related. And rose has been through a lot of stress playing in his home town and still running with his boys chasing girls. My injury occurred during a very stressful time in my marriage. So if my philosophy is correct (its all a big guess...no one knows the future) I think his maturity has improved due to this rape case....his stress to carry a team is reduced......and he's away from his hometown family and friends pressure in NYC. Its like when God gives you a second chance, usually u take advantage of that. At 28 is the time when everything starts to click.....so I believe rose will be fi e this year....
The million dollar question is what's rose value if he plays this year like an all star player? That's the only thing I can't answer.....will he sign a discount contract? And what is a discount?
+1 and i really don't like the notion of this being rose's team and letting rose be rose. he should be less self-serving and find a way to adjust his game while serving the knicks' franchise player, kp6. that is his path to redemption. of course, the federal court may have something to say about that if rose refuses to settle a quite sordid sexual assault charge.
Why don't you get up to speed? Rose has CLEARLY stated that he intends to be more of a distributor with all the talent around him. I've shown that he's done it before and I have no doubt that Rose can do it again. As for being aggressive, Rose has to still be the player he has been in terms of driving the ball. This was a MAJOR weakness for this team so having Rose will change this team's aggressiveness for the better!
This is about Rose helping to make things easier for everyone. He can do that in Hornacek's schemes and I trust JH to be able to help Rose and all of our guards perform at a high level. In JH's schemes everyone is involved so I think your fears are overstated.
words and deeds. talk is cheap. driving the ball on semi- or full breaks is his greatest value, especially since melo is in good post-olympic shape and should flash out to the three like hornacek wants him to.
as to the rest of rose's game, his path to redemption is not to be so self-serving in pursuing another big contract by trying to be the old rose. in reality if he wants to remain a knick player he needs to attenuate his half-court game and be sure his agenda is being in service to the knicks and their future franchise player.
his usage must be below 25%, his fga must be no more than 14 a game, preferable 12, and his TS% must rise to 54-55%. if he hits these marks while dishing 5 assists a game in 28 minutes per game, he will be a member in good standing, despite being a defensive sieve, and should be resigned to a 2 year contract at about 14 million a year.
alternatively, if his usage is closer to 28-30% and his fga are closer to 16-17 a game, while his TS% remains below 50%, he should be grabbed by the collar and belt and frog marched out of new york as soon as the season is over.
I think you are WAY too focused on efficiency as opposed to production. Some players post great efficiency but low production. We had such a player in Jose. You don't appreciate the fact that Rose attacking the defense is disruptive and a good thing. Teams will not be able to just relax on D cuz they know exactly what we're going to do every time down.
Your plan to defang Rose is STUPID!!! I can't even take your logic seriously. You certainly want Rose to be more efficient but you DO NOT want to turn him into Jose Calderon. You want Rose to be aggressive and disruptive. That's his strength!!!
nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:either way Rose isnt as important as KP or melo. If Rose gets hurt(likely) we still have jennings. However in order to go anywhere this year we need KP and melo healthy the whole wayStarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:i understand your point BUT there is a big difference between doing normal everyday things and being a nba point guard after so many injuries...it takes it toll as a player. Now i think Rose will still be effective but him lasting a whole season is a question mark. Im not being negative at all just trying to be objective. I hope he lasts the whole yearStarksEwing1 wrote:EnySpree wrote:The only concern we should have with Rose is none.....There is injury concern for sure. Its not being negative just being honest from his history1. He's not a bum. Even if he's lost a step, that still makes him a top 10 point guard. He's on Teague, Conley level. 16/5 production possibly more which would make him a top 5-8 pg.
2. He's a injury risk but that's why we signed Brandon Jennings. Nothing else to say with that. The Knicks covered their bases.
3. His rape trial most likely will be postponed til after the season. He won't miss any games because of it.
Have you or anybody else had multiple serious injuries back to back? Ever wonder why someone like myself, who's had multiple injuries back to back, is not as concerned as others with Rose. Maybe thats why I'm more optimistic than most, because I've experience this before. And we've seen others like Westbrook come back from a similar injury. We have to stop looking at his last injury, because it wasn't related to his knee. From what I can tell, his knee has been holding up for multiple years now. So why the concern all of a sudden? Rose is not the main guy anymore....And he doesn't have to prove himself offensively like in the past. He doesn't have to play major minutes anymore.....He doesn't have to carry the team....And his knees has been healthy for over 2 years or more (whenever he had his last knee surgery). He's only 27.
I'm 43....had multiple surgeries back to back (mid and late 30's).....It's been 2-3 years since the last surgery and I'm still killing at 43.....Rose will be fine at 28. Some people have the genetics and others don't. I believe Rose is not only physically healed (he's already proved that last year).....But he's now working on mental healing. His goal is not to score 20+.....It's to play all 82 games of the regular season injury free. And if you look at the games played, each year it's more and more games of being injury free. Last year was 60 something games.....Which is very encouraging for fans and more importantly himself. This year will be less impactful on his body, because of the system and talent around him. I'm not worried about Rose now or in the future (in this system and around this talent).
He has the potential to get injured just like everybody else. Basketball is a brutle sport, especially if you don't take care of yourself. I believe Rose has reached that point of maturity, and he will become a normal player again. One more knee injury might be it for him, and I'm sure that was on his mind last year. Hopefully this year he's now mentally healed, which is the key to injury recovery.
If I didn't have experience with basketball injuries, I would be skeptical as well. And I agree with your comparison of me and rose the NBA player. I'm not under the same pressure and stress to carry an NBA team like rose. But I am an expert in basketball injuries and recovery. One thing I find out is that injuries and stress are very much related. And rose has been through a lot of stress playing in his home town and still running with his boys chasing girls. My injury occurred during a very stressful time in my marriage. So if my philosophy is correct (its all a big guess...no one knows the future) I think his maturity has improved due to this rape case....his stress to carry a team is reduced......and he's away from his hometown family and friends pressure in NYC. Its like when God gives you a second chance, usually u take advantage of that. At 28 is the time when everything starts to click.....so I believe rose will be fi e this year....
The million dollar question is what's rose value if he plays this year like an all star player? That's the only thing I can't answer.....will he sign a discount contract? And what is a discount?
+1 and i really don't like the notion of this being rose's team and letting rose be rose. he should be less self-serving and find a way to adjust his game while serving the knicks' franchise player, kp6. that is his path to redemption. of course, the federal court may have something to say about that if rose refuses to settle a quite sordid sexual assault charge.
Why don't you get up to speed? Rose has CLEARLY stated that he intends to be more of a distributor with all the talent around him. I've shown that he's done it before and I have no doubt that Rose can do it again. As for being aggressive, Rose has to still be the player he has been in terms of driving the ball. This was a MAJOR weakness for this team so having Rose will change this team's aggressiveness for the better!
This is about Rose helping to make things easier for everyone. He can do that in Hornacek's schemes and I trust JH to be able to help Rose and all of our guards perform at a high level. In JH's schemes everyone is involved so I think your fears are overstated.
words and deeds. talk is cheap. driving the ball on semi- or full breaks is his greatest value, especially since melo is in good post-olympic shape and should flash out to the three like hornacek wants him to.
as to the rest of rose's game, his path to redemption is not to be so self-serving in pursuing another big contract by trying to be the old rose. in reality if he wants to remain a knick player he needs to attenuate his half-court game and be sure his agenda is being in service to the knicks and their future franchise player.
his usage must be below 25%, his fga must be no more than 14 a game, preferable 12, and his TS% must rise to 54-55%. if he hits these marks while dishing 5 assists a game in 28 minutes per game, he will be a member in good standing, despite being a defensive sieve, and should be resigned to a 2 year contract at about 14 million a year.
alternatively, if his usage is closer to 28-30% and his fga are closer to 16-17 a game, while his TS% remains below 50%, he should be grabbed by the collar and belt and frog marched out of new york as soon as the season is over.
I think you are WAY too focused on efficiency as opposed to production. Some players post great efficiency but low production. We had such a player in Jose. You don't appreciate the fact that Rose attacking the defense is disruptive and a good thing. Teams will not be able to just relax on D cuz they know exactly what we're going to do every time down.
Your plan to defang Rose is STUPID!!! I can't even take your logic seriously. You certainly want Rose to be more efficient but you DO NOT want to turn him into Jose Calderon. You want Rose to be aggressive and disruptive. That's his strength!!!
the main advantage of rose is his pushing the ball, though. calderon and sadly galloway just didn't do that. you don't want a volume scorer at the point guard position, not when you have plenty of offense in melo, kp6, and lee. it's not "defanging" rose, it's asking him to reduce the stress on his body by being less of a shot taker and more of a ball distributor and ball sharer.
it really won't take much, unless his ego and lack of character and common sense prevents it:
12-14 shots a game instead of 16-18 shots a game
24% usage instead of 28-30%
try to get the the free throw line 4-6 times a game to help raise his TS% by drawing more fouls on his drives through savvy head and ball fakes-- he isn't getting to the line nearly enough for a guy who gets into the lane, and this is due to his leaving his feet. a little more walt frazier and a lot less stephon dingleberry would do wonders for rose's game.
why is this a problem for you? don't you realize the knicks future is kristaps porzingis, not derrick rose?
Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
If he is found guilty in court then that would change a lot.
He is not on trial for criminal charges. This is not about him being guilty of rape, its to determine if he is liable for monetary compensation.
So if he is found liable, he'll have to write a check. No jail, no probation, no registration as a sexual predator or criminal record.
Whats the monetary compensation for if no rape? The sex toys??
newyorknewyork wrote:Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
If he is found guilty in court then that would change a lot.
He is not on trial for criminal charges. This is not about him being guilty of rape, its to determine if he is liable for monetary compensation.
So if he is found liable, he'll have to write a check. No jail, no probation, no registration as a sexual predator or criminal record.Whats the monetary compensation for if no rape? The sex toys??
whatever the compensation it will not be what she is asking, which is essentially his salary for this season, or 21 million. at a certain point you hope he gives her 5 million to settle and to go away-- since he seemingly is more interested in smearing her character (as in "she had it coming")-- than proving that he didn't ply her with drugs. this would be the prudent thing to do. this way he is not found guilty of anything, can clear his name, and have there not be a media frenzy about him all season.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:either way Rose isnt as important as KP or melo. If Rose gets hurt(likely) we still have jennings. However in order to go anywhere this year we need KP and melo healthy the whole wayStarksEwing1 wrote:blkexec wrote:i understand your point BUT there is a big difference between doing normal everyday things and being a nba point guard after so many injuries...it takes it toll as a player. Now i think Rose will still be effective but him lasting a whole season is a question mark. Im not being negative at all just trying to be objective. I hope he lasts the whole yearStarksEwing1 wrote:EnySpree wrote:The only concern we should have with Rose is none.....There is injury concern for sure. Its not being negative just being honest from his history1. He's not a bum. Even if he's lost a step, that still makes him a top 10 point guard. He's on Teague, Conley level. 16/5 production possibly more which would make him a top 5-8 pg.
2. He's a injury risk but that's why we signed Brandon Jennings. Nothing else to say with that. The Knicks covered their bases.
3. His rape trial most likely will be postponed til after the season. He won't miss any games because of it.
Have you or anybody else had multiple serious injuries back to back? Ever wonder why someone like myself, who's had multiple injuries back to back, is not as concerned as others with Rose. Maybe thats why I'm more optimistic than most, because I've experience this before. And we've seen others like Westbrook come back from a similar injury. We have to stop looking at his last injury, because it wasn't related to his knee. From what I can tell, his knee has been holding up for multiple years now. So why the concern all of a sudden? Rose is not the main guy anymore....And he doesn't have to prove himself offensively like in the past. He doesn't have to play major minutes anymore.....He doesn't have to carry the team....And his knees has been healthy for over 2 years or more (whenever he had his last knee surgery). He's only 27.
I'm 43....had multiple surgeries back to back (mid and late 30's).....It's been 2-3 years since the last surgery and I'm still killing at 43.....Rose will be fine at 28. Some people have the genetics and others don't. I believe Rose is not only physically healed (he's already proved that last year).....But he's now working on mental healing. His goal is not to score 20+.....It's to play all 82 games of the regular season injury free. And if you look at the games played, each year it's more and more games of being injury free. Last year was 60 something games.....Which is very encouraging for fans and more importantly himself. This year will be less impactful on his body, because of the system and talent around him. I'm not worried about Rose now or in the future (in this system and around this talent).
He has the potential to get injured just like everybody else. Basketball is a brutle sport, especially if you don't take care of yourself. I believe Rose has reached that point of maturity, and he will become a normal player again. One more knee injury might be it for him, and I'm sure that was on his mind last year. Hopefully this year he's now mentally healed, which is the key to injury recovery.
If I didn't have experience with basketball injuries, I would be skeptical as well. And I agree with your comparison of me and rose the NBA player. I'm not under the same pressure and stress to carry an NBA team like rose. But I am an expert in basketball injuries and recovery. One thing I find out is that injuries and stress are very much related. And rose has been through a lot of stress playing in his home town and still running with his boys chasing girls. My injury occurred during a very stressful time in my marriage. So if my philosophy is correct (its all a big guess...no one knows the future) I think his maturity has improved due to this rape case....his stress to carry a team is reduced......and he's away from his hometown family and friends pressure in NYC. Its like when God gives you a second chance, usually u take advantage of that. At 28 is the time when everything starts to click.....so I believe rose will be fi e this year....
The million dollar question is what's rose value if he plays this year like an all star player? That's the only thing I can't answer.....will he sign a discount contract? And what is a discount?
+1 and i really don't like the notion of this being rose's team and letting rose be rose. he should be less self-serving and find a way to adjust his game while serving the knicks' franchise player, kp6. that is his path to redemption. of course, the federal court may have something to say about that if rose refuses to settle a quite sordid sexual assault charge.
Why don't you get up to speed? Rose has CLEARLY stated that he intends to be more of a distributor with all the talent around him. I've shown that he's done it before and I have no doubt that Rose can do it again. As for being aggressive, Rose has to still be the player he has been in terms of driving the ball. This was a MAJOR weakness for this team so having Rose will change this team's aggressiveness for the better!
This is about Rose helping to make things easier for everyone. He can do that in Hornacek's schemes and I trust JH to be able to help Rose and all of our guards perform at a high level. In JH's schemes everyone is involved so I think your fears are overstated.
words and deeds. talk is cheap. driving the ball on semi- or full breaks is his greatest value, especially since melo is in good post-olympic shape and should flash out to the three like hornacek wants him to.
as to the rest of rose's game, his path to redemption is not to be so self-serving in pursuing another big contract by trying to be the old rose. in reality if he wants to remain a knick player he needs to attenuate his half-court game and be sure his agenda is being in service to the knicks and their future franchise player.
his usage must be below 25%, his fga must be no more than 14 a game, preferable 12, and his TS% must rise to 54-55%. if he hits these marks while dishing 5 assists a game in 28 minutes per game, he will be a member in good standing, despite being a defensive sieve, and should be resigned to a 2 year contract at about 14 million a year.
alternatively, if his usage is closer to 28-30% and his fga are closer to 16-17 a game, while his TS% remains below 50%, he should be grabbed by the collar and belt and frog marched out of new york as soon as the season is over.
I think you are WAY too focused on efficiency as opposed to production. Some players post great efficiency but low production. We had such a player in Jose. You don't appreciate the fact that Rose attacking the defense is disruptive and a good thing. Teams will not be able to just relax on D cuz they know exactly what we're going to do every time down.
Your plan to defang Rose is STUPID!!! I can't even take your logic seriously. You certainly want Rose to be more efficient but you DO NOT want to turn him into Jose Calderon. You want Rose to be aggressive and disruptive. That's his strength!!!
the main advantage of rose is his pushing the ball, though. calderon and sadly galloway just didn't do that. you don't want a volume scorer at the point guard position, not when you have plenty of offense in melo, kp6, and lee. it's not "defanging" rose, it's asking him to reduce the stress on his body by being less of a shot taker and more of a ball distributor and ball sharer.
it really won't take much, unless his ego and lack of character and common sense prevents it:
12-14 shots a game instead of 16-18 shots a game
24% usage instead of 28-30%
try to get the the free throw line 4-6 times a game to help raise his TS% by drawing more fouls on his drives through savvy head and ball fakes-- he isn't getting to the line nearly enough for a guy who gets into the lane, and this is due to his leaving his feet. a little more walt frazier and a lot less stephon dingleberry would do wonders for rose's game.why is this a problem for you? don't you realize the knicks future is kristaps porzingis, not derrick rose?
I agree that it would be great if Rose got to the line more. I also want to see him continue to Drive to the rim and breakdown the defense. Now it's silly to question me regarding KP's future. You know I love the kid.
There will be enough shots to go around with a faster tempo. IMO there's no need to try and restrict Rose's game. It's only natural that Rose will pass more when he's playing with more talent. You talk like Rose never had success in this league. 62 wins and an ECF suggests Rose being Rose can be pretty effective. His Assist % was 38.7% and his usage was 32.2%. I don't expect we'll ever see that level again from Rose but he has a chance to improve over recent years.
Rose won't have to press or over handle on this team. There's enough scoring support for him to not have to feel he needs to carry all the action. Hornacek will have these guys looking to share the load with each other. His schemes involve everyone in the action so I have no worries about balance being a problem.
WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
This shows how ignorance, wishing the worst in others and eagerness to judge is more prevalent than due process. He is not on trial for rape!! And if you are saying that there is zero chance that this woman is after financial gains, you are being naive. Sad you would give up on your team over a civil accusation and here say.
HofstraBBall wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
This shows how ignorance, wishing the worst in others and eagerness to judge is more prevalent than due process. He is not on trial for rape!! And if you are saying that there is zero chance that this woman is after financial gains, you are being naive. Sad you would give up on your team over a civil accusation and here say.
For Pete's sake--read the post. Where do you infer that I'm "wishing the worst in him" as that's clearly not what I said. I'm also absolutely not "eager to judge him" because (as I stated) that will be done through the legal process. At the end of the day, it's Rose's character that will largely be revealed--one way or the other--in this scenario; hence, my use of the term "potentially." If it turns out for the worst (which I certainly hope it doesn't) then I will find it nearly impossible to root for him and, unfortunately, diminish the fervor with which I root for his team. If that bothers you, I frankly couldn't care less. (PS the term you're looking for is "hearsay.")
WP76 wrote:Yeah that guy jumped the gun without reading your post. I agree with you about the Roethlisberger analogy although that was a higher profile case. Hopefully he isn't guilty of anything that happened but if he is then I wouldn't want him on the knicks because I couldn't cheer for him at allHofstraBBall wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
This shows how ignorance, wishing the worst in others and eagerness to judge is more prevalent than due process. He is not on trial for rape!! And if you are saying that there is zero chance that this woman is after financial gains, you are being naive. Sad you would give up on your team over a civil accusation and here say.
For Pete's sake--read the post. Where do you infer that I'm "wishing the worst in him" as that's clearly not what I said. I'm also absolutely not "eager to judge him" because (as I stated) that will be done through the legal process. At the end of the day, it's Rose's character that will largely be revealed--one way or the other--in this scenario; hence, my use of the term "potentially." If it turns out for the worst (which I certainly hope it doesn't) then I will find it nearly impossible to root for him and, unfortunately, diminish the fervor with which I root for his team. If that bothers you, I frankly couldn't care less. (PS the term you're looking for is "hearsay.")
[/quote]
Thank you. Trust me, as far as Rose is concerned, he'll get every possible benefit of the doubt. However, I reserve the right to draw my own conclusions based on the legal process and to respond (as a fan) as my conscience dictates.
StarksEwing1 wrote:WP76 wrote:Yeah that guy jumped the gun without reading your post. I agree with you about the Roethlisberger analogy although that was a higher profile case. Hopefully he isn't guilty of anything that happened but if he is then I wouldn't want him on the knicks because I couldn't cheer for him at allHofstraBBall wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
This shows how ignorance, wishing the worst in others and eagerness to judge is more prevalent than due process. He is not on trial for rape!! And if you are saying that there is zero chance that this woman is after financial gains, you are being naive. Sad you would give up on your team over a civil accusation and here say.
For Pete's sake--read the post. Where do you infer that I'm "wishing the worst in him" as that's clearly not what I said. I'm also absolutely not "eager to judge him" because (as I stated) that will be done through the legal process. At the end of the day, it's Rose's character that will largely be revealed--one way or the other--in this scenario; hence, my use of the term "potentially." If it turns out for the worst (which I certainly hope it doesn't) then I will find it nearly impossible to root for him and, unfortunately, diminish the fervor with which I root for his team. If that bothers you, I frankly couldn't care less. (PS the term you're looking for is "hearsay.")
You keep talking in terms of Guilt or Innocence as if this is a Criminal Case but it's not!!!
The Burden of Proof is “Lighter” in a Civil Case
Second, the “burden of proof” in a civil case -- what must be shown in order for the defendant to be held liable for what the plaintiff is alleging -- is “by a preponderance of the evidence,” meaning it is more likely than not that what the plaintiff is alleging is actually true. In a criminal case, the government must show the defendant’s guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which is a much tougher standard to meet.
By virtue of the nature of a Civil Case you will not ever get to know if Rose is "Guilty". You may personally hold that opinion but in point of fact this will not be determined from a Criminal standpoint.
nixluva wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:WP76 wrote:Yeah that guy jumped the gun without reading your post. I agree with you about the Roethlisberger analogy although that was a higher profile case. Hopefully he isn't guilty of anything that happened but if he is then I wouldn't want him on the knicks because I couldn't cheer for him at allHofstraBBall wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
This shows how ignorance, wishing the worst in others and eagerness to judge is more prevalent than due process. He is not on trial for rape!! And if you are saying that there is zero chance that this woman is after financial gains, you are being naive. Sad you would give up on your team over a civil accusation and here say.
For Pete's sake--read the post. Where do you infer that I'm "wishing the worst in him" as that's clearly not what I said. I'm also absolutely not "eager to judge him" because (as I stated) that will be done through the legal process. At the end of the day, it's Rose's character that will largely be revealed--one way or the other--in this scenario; hence, my use of the term "potentially." If it turns out for the worst (which I certainly hope it doesn't) then I will find it nearly impossible to root for him and, unfortunately, diminish the fervor with which I root for his team. If that bothers you, I frankly couldn't care less. (PS the term you're looking for is "hearsay.")
You keep talking in terms of Guilt or Innocence as if this is a Criminal Case but it's not!!!
The Burden of Proof is “Lighter” in a Civil Case
Second, the “burden of proof” in a civil case -- what must be shown in order for the defendant to be held liable for what the plaintiff is alleging -- is “by a preponderance of the evidence,” meaning it is more likely than not that what the plaintiff is alleging is actually true. In a criminal case, the government must show the defendant’s guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which is a much tougher standard to meet.By virtue of the nature of a Civil Case you will not ever get to know if Rose is "Guilty". You may personally hold that opinion but in point of fact this will not be determined from a Criminal standpoint.
he is being sued for some form of "wrongdoing," even when that wrongdoing is *merely* civil.
that's why he should settle right away-- he doesn't want to be risk being found "guilty" of anything whatsoever. prolonging the case is professional suicide, as it will be a distraction to his employer. of course, with dolan as the resident malignant narcissist, he may see an extension of himself in rose and fork over the dough to help ease the pain.
dk7th wrote:He has said he is innocent and appears to feel very strongly about proving it. He should do what he thinks is right. He has a son, and is loved in Chicago. While the details that have come out aren't pretty, what he is accused of is much worse. Also, how is this a distraction? These guys play in NY. Everything is magnified, multiplied and exaggerated. This past week I have seen at least 8 articles about something Courtney Lee said on July 6.nixluva wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:WP76 wrote:Yeah that guy jumped the gun without reading your post. I agree with you about the Roethlisberger analogy although that was a higher profile case. Hopefully he isn't guilty of anything that happened but if he is then I wouldn't want him on the knicks because I couldn't cheer for him at allHofstraBBall wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
This shows how ignorance, wishing the worst in others and eagerness to judge is more prevalent than due process. He is not on trial for rape!! And if you are saying that there is zero chance that this woman is after financial gains, you are being naive. Sad you would give up on your team over a civil accusation and here say.
For Pete's sake--read the post. Where do you infer that I'm "wishing the worst in him" as that's clearly not what I said. I'm also absolutely not "eager to judge him" because (as I stated) that will be done through the legal process. At the end of the day, it's Rose's character that will largely be revealed--one way or the other--in this scenario; hence, my use of the term "potentially." If it turns out for the worst (which I certainly hope it doesn't) then I will find it nearly impossible to root for him and, unfortunately, diminish the fervor with which I root for his team. If that bothers you, I frankly couldn't care less. (PS the term you're looking for is "hearsay.")
You keep talking in terms of Guilt or Innocence as if this is a Criminal Case but it's not!!!
The Burden of Proof is “Lighter” in a Civil Case
Second, the “burden of proof” in a civil case -- what must be shown in order for the defendant to be held liable for what the plaintiff is alleging -- is “by a preponderance of the evidence,” meaning it is more likely than not that what the plaintiff is alleging is actually true. In a criminal case, the government must show the defendant’s guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which is a much tougher standard to meet.By virtue of the nature of a Civil Case you will not ever get to know if Rose is "Guilty". You may personally hold that opinion but in point of fact this will not be determined from a Criminal standpoint.
he is being sued for some form of "wrongdoing," even when that wrongdoing is *merely* civil.
that's why he should settle right away-- he doesn't want to be risk being found "guilty" of anything whatsoever. prolonging the case is professional suicide, as it will be a distraction to his employer. of course, with dolan as the resident malignant narcissist, he may see an extension of himself in rose and fork over the dough to help ease the pain.
If someone feels they were falsely accused of something they have the right to defend themselves. Paying her off gives the appearance of guilt. I think he and his attorneys are shocked that it has even made it to court.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:WP76 wrote:Yeah that guy jumped the gun without reading your post. I agree with you about the Roethlisberger analogy although that was a higher profile case. Hopefully he isn't guilty of anything that happened but if he is then I wouldn't want him on the knicks because I couldn't cheer for him at allHofstraBBall wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
This shows how ignorance, wishing the worst in others and eagerness to judge is more prevalent than due process. He is not on trial for rape!! And if you are saying that there is zero chance that this woman is after financial gains, you are being naive. Sad you would give up on your team over a civil accusation and here say.
For Pete's sake--read the post. Where do you infer that I'm "wishing the worst in him" as that's clearly not what I said. I'm also absolutely not "eager to judge him" because (as I stated) that will be done through the legal process. At the end of the day, it's Rose's character that will largely be revealed--one way or the other--in this scenario; hence, my use of the term "potentially." If it turns out for the worst (which I certainly hope it doesn't) then I will find it nearly impossible to root for him and, unfortunately, diminish the fervor with which I root for his team. If that bothers you, I frankly couldn't care less. (PS the term you're looking for is "hearsay.")
You keep talking in terms of Guilt or Innocence as if this is a Criminal Case but it's not!!!
The Burden of Proof is “Lighter” in a Civil Case
Second, the “burden of proof” in a civil case -- what must be shown in order for the defendant to be held liable for what the plaintiff is alleging -- is “by a preponderance of the evidence,” meaning it is more likely than not that what the plaintiff is alleging is actually true. In a criminal case, the government must show the defendant’s guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which is a much tougher standard to meet.By virtue of the nature of a Civil Case you will not ever get to know if Rose is "Guilty". You may personally hold that opinion but in point of fact this will not be determined from a Criminal standpoint.
he is being sued for some form of "wrongdoing," even when that wrongdoing is *merely* civil.
that's why he should settle right away-- he doesn't want to be risk being found "guilty" of anything whatsoever. prolonging the case is professional suicide, as it will be a distraction to his employer. of course, with dolan as the resident malignant narcissist, he may see an extension of himself in rose and fork over the dough to help ease the pain.
You still seem to not have a clear understanding of the huge difference in a Criminal vs Civil case. Guilt or Innocence is not determined in a Civil case but you guys are treating this as if that is what would be determined if Rose lost the case.
CIVIL CASES
In contrast with criminal cases, in civil cases one party sues another for an injury or harm that they feel the other party has committed against them. At issue is not whether the defendant is “guilty” or “innocent,” but whether or not he or she is liable, and if so, to what degree. A liable party can be asked to pay money to the injured party, to do something (like follow through on a contract) or to not do something (like use the plaintiff’s trademark).
So as long as we talk about this we should be sure to be accurate in how we talk about this. It's not right to mix the 2 things since one is MUCH more serious in terms of its significance. So if Rose is found LIABLE that's not the same thing as being found GUILTY. No matter how much someone would wish it to be the same thing.
nixluva wrote:Exactly. This isn't Kobe. Thisdk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:WP76 wrote:Yeah that guy jumped the gun without reading your post. I agree with you about the Roethlisberger analogy although that was a higher profile case. Hopefully he isn't guilty of anything that happened but if he is then I wouldn't want him on the knicks because I couldn't cheer for him at allHofstraBBall wrote:WP76 wrote:To me, Rose is potentially like Ben Roethlisberger. I liked the Steelers until it became public knowledge that he was a predator of teenage girls. He served his NFL penalty but, to me, he is scum and I can't cheer for a team of which he is a member.I've been a die-hard Knick fan for well over 40 years now but Rose presents a similar dilemma. If the rape charges are upheld in court, I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for any team of which he is a member. That's the personal reality of this situation.
This shows how ignorance, wishing the worst in others and eagerness to judge is more prevalent than due process. He is not on trial for rape!! And if you are saying that there is zero chance that this woman is after financial gains, you are being naive. Sad you would give up on your team over a civil accusation and here say.
For Pete's sake--read the post. Where do you infer that I'm "wishing the worst in him" as that's clearly not what I said. I'm also absolutely not "eager to judge him" because (as I stated) that will be done through the legal process. At the end of the day, it's Rose's character that will largely be revealed--one way or the other--in this scenario; hence, my use of the term "potentially." If it turns out for the worst (which I certainly hope it doesn't) then I will find it nearly impossible to root for him and, unfortunately, diminish the fervor with which I root for his team. If that bothers you, I frankly couldn't care less. (PS the term you're looking for is "hearsay.")
You keep talking in terms of Guilt or Innocence as if this is a Criminal Case but it's not!!!
The Burden of Proof is “Lighter” in a Civil Case
Second, the “burden of proof” in a civil case -- what must be shown in order for the defendant to be held liable for what the plaintiff is alleging -- is “by a preponderance of the evidence,” meaning it is more likely than not that what the plaintiff is alleging is actually true. In a criminal case, the government must show the defendant’s guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which is a much tougher standard to meet.By virtue of the nature of a Civil Case you will not ever get to know if Rose is "Guilty". You may personally hold that opinion but in point of fact this will not be determined from a Criminal standpoint.
he is being sued for some form of "wrongdoing," even when that wrongdoing is *merely* civil.
that's why he should settle right away-- he doesn't want to be risk being found "guilty" of anything whatsoever. prolonging the case is professional suicide, as it will be a distraction to his employer. of course, with dolan as the resident malignant narcissist, he may see an extension of himself in rose and fork over the dough to help ease the pain.
You still seem to not have a clear understanding of the huge difference in a Criminal vs Civil case. Guilt or Innocence is not determined in a Civil case but you guys are treating this as if that is what would be determined if Rose lost the case.
CIVIL CASES
In contrast with criminal cases, in civil cases one party sues another for an injury or harm that they feel the other party has committed against them. At issue is not whether the defendant is “guilty” or “innocent,” but whether or not he or she is liable, and if so, to what degree. A liable party can be asked to pay money to the injured party, to do something (like follow through on a contract) or to not do something (like use the plaintiff’s trademark).So as long as we talk about this we should be sure to be accurate in how we talk about this. It's not right to mix the 2 things since one is MUCH more serious in terms of its significance. So if Rose is found LIABLE that's not the same thing as being found GUILTY. No matter how much someone would wish it to be the same thing.
On July 4, Sheriff Joe Hoy issued an arrest warrant for Bryant. Bryant flew from Los Angeles back to Eagle, Colorado to surrender to police.didn't happen. This is about monetary compensation for something that was consensual or wasn't three years ago. Rose obviously feels very strongly that he is being accused falsely. It will and should be resolved in court. Settling would appear as an admission of guilt. Rose is a father and is respected in his community. I see nothing wrong with him wanting his day in court to clear his name.