We all know CP3 is a great player so that's not the issue IMO. IMO it's not so much about Rose having a super year as it's about how well the KNICKS as a team actually perform. WINS is what will matter the most and not individual stats. The way the team plays and comes together will be key.
What Hornacek thinks about Rose at the end of the year will also factor in. I believe Phil wants things to work with Rose and not to have to once again change his lead guard. Unless this falls apart and there is bad feelings I think that the spirit of the team should be better and tighter after a playoff run. Melo and KP would most likely want to have everyone come back if the team finds success together.
Tough question. CP3 would be great for KP. The one argument against Rose coming in is does KP end up in a role where he isn't utilized and doesn't develop. I don't think there is anyway of that happening with CP3. I want to see the Rose thing play out. I agree with Nix that I think Phil is hoping it works and turns into something long term.
If CP3 will commit to Phil with Melo organizing the secret gang party this will make a lot of sense.
If it will be just a shot in the dark most likely no...
CrushAlot wrote:Tough question. CP3 would be great for KP. The one argument against Rose coming in is does KP end up in a role where he isn't utilized and doesn't develop. I don't think there is anyway of that happening with CP3. I want to see the Rose thing play out. I agree with Nix that I think Phil is hoping it works and turns into something long term.
so is there any scenario that you would be happy with Rose getting a near max contract? I don't think that he would be will to sign for that much less even if he has a decent year, and if he has an excellent year (which I highly doubt), I in no way would trust Rose to perform up to a 3-4 year max contract
mreinman wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Tough question. CP3 would be great for KP. The one argument against Rose coming in is does KP end up in a role where he isn't utilized and doesn't develop. I don't think there is anyway of that happening with CP3. I want to see the Rose thing play out. I agree with Nix that I think Phil is hoping it works and turns into something long term.
so is there any scenario that you would be happy with Rose getting a near max contract? I don't think that he would be will to sign for that much less even if he has a decent year, and if he has an excellent year (which I highly doubt), I in no way would trust Rose to perform up to a 3-4 year max contract
I think you have to let it play out. Rose is a wild card. Maybe two years max if he has an incredible year and the Knicks get to the ecf. But if he is first year Amare all season and deep into the playoffs it would be hard to be the one making the decision. Similar to Lin with his deal with Houston, it would be hard to make the right business decision.
CrushAlot wrote:mreinman wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Tough question. CP3 would be great for KP. The one argument against Rose coming in is does KP end up in a role where he isn't utilized and doesn't develop. I don't think there is anyway of that happening with CP3. I want to see the Rose thing play out. I agree with Nix that I think Phil is hoping it works and turns into something long term.
so is there any scenario that you would be happy with Rose getting a near max contract? I don't think that he would be will to sign for that much less even if he has a decent year, and if he has an excellent year (which I highly doubt), I in no way would trust Rose to perform up to a 3-4 year max contract
I think you have to let it play out. Rose is a wild card. Maybe two years max if he has an incredible year and the Knicks get to the ecf. But if he is first year Amare all season and deep into the playoffs it would be hard to be the one making the decision. Similar to Lin with his deal with Houston, it would be hard to make the right business decision.
and I think thats fair but they sort of backed themselves into a corner here. In a way, its better if he is just ok for us.
i think i put my "future game plans" in my signature
in a nutshell:
- build around KP
- surround him with vets as role players
- find him a young PG to play with
this team should be in rebuilding mode around KP...not trying to win championships with melo. that wont happen while lebron is at peak. i vote to develop our young and strike around 2019.
but im patient...nyc isnt
callmened wrote:i think i put my "future game plans" in my signaturein a nutshell:
- build around KP
- surround him with vets as role players
- find him a young PG to play with
this team should be in rebuilding mode around KP...not trying to win championships with melo. that wont happen while lebron is at peak. i vote to develop our young and strike around 2019.
but im patient...nyc isnt
yeah ... tell that to the crazy's on this board who are grasping at anything with the NEEEEEEEEEEEEED to win now.
mreinman wrote:callmened wrote:i think i put my "future game plans" in my signaturein a nutshell:
- build around KP
- surround him with vets as role players
- find him a young PG to play with
this team should be in rebuilding mode around KP...not trying to win championships with melo. that wont happen while lebron is at peak. i vote to develop our young and strike around 2019.
but im patient...nyc isnt
yeah ... tell that to the crazy's on this board who are grasping at anything with the NEEEEEEEEEEEEED to win now.
You don't think that is fans reacting to the moves the President and Coach made?
CrushAlot wrote:mreinman wrote:callmened wrote:i think i put my "future game plans" in my signaturein a nutshell:
- build around KP
- surround him with vets as role players
- find him a young PG to play with
this team should be in rebuilding mode around KP...not trying to win championships with melo. that wont happen while lebron is at peak. i vote to develop our young and strike around 2019.
but im patient...nyc isnt
yeah ... tell that to the crazy's on this board who are grasping at anything with the NEEEEEEEEEEEEED to win now.
You don't think that is fans reacting to the moves the President and Coach made?
I am talking the way that fans always react. They are like gamblers who lost 100 hands in a row and still can't get their azzes off the table. They need it and they need it now.
This is going to be Phil's 3rd revision of the roster and after the FLUSH in year one the team has gotten BETTER. So there's nothing wrong with raised expectations. Phil is trying to put a winning team together. He kept Melo. Drafted KP. Now he's added a couple of talented PG's, a real 3nD SG and a Center who can still rebound, defend and pass at a high level. It's easy to look at the negatives of the team but there are a LOT of positives with this roster and some considerable upside.
The CP3 thing is going to be a consideration after the season but I wouldn't put a high chance on this happening next summer. Phil had to have it in the back of his mind if Rose completely implodes but aside from that I think they'll look to keep the team together if they make the playoffs and perform respectably.
nixluva wrote:This is going to be Phil's 3rd revision of the roster and after the FLUSH in year one the team has gotten BETTER. So there's nothing wrong with raised expectations. Phil is trying to put a winning team together. He kept Melo. Drafted KP. Now he's added a couple of talented PG's, a real 3nD SG and a Center who can still rebound, defend and pass at a high level. It's easy to look at the negatives of the team but there are a LOT of positives with this roster and some considerable upside.The CP3 thing is going to be a consideration after the season but I wouldn't put a high chance on this happening next summer. Phil had to have it in the back of his mind if Rose completely implodes but aside from that I think they'll look to keep the team together if they make the playoffs and perform respectably.
that is why some of us eager fans are predicting low 40's while the pro's are picking late 30's. Some improvement, yes.
mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:This is going to be Phil's 3rd revision of the roster and after the FLUSH in year one the team has gotten BETTER. So there's nothing wrong with raised expectations. Phil is trying to put a winning team together. He kept Melo. Drafted KP. Now he's added a couple of talented PG's, a real 3nD SG and a Center who can still rebound, defend and pass at a high level. It's easy to look at the negatives of the team but there are a LOT of positives with this roster and some considerable upside.The CP3 thing is going to be a consideration after the season but I wouldn't put a high chance on this happening next summer. Phil had to have it in the back of his mind if Rose completely implodes but aside from that I think they'll look to keep the team together if they make the playoffs and perform respectably.
that is why some of us eager fans are predicting low 40's while the pro's are picking late 30's. Some improvement, yes.
I really don't consider the Pro's prediction of about 35 wins to be something that will hold up this season. I think there is too much emphasis on Rose and not enough on how all the parts will come together under Hornacek. I actually think his style will be good for these players talents. I think JH will highlight the strengths of KP, Melo and Rose and he's going to go with the flow of the river rather than fight against it. JH is gonna know the way his players are most successful and create a set of plays that will go right along with those strengths. This is what he's stated over and over and what his history has shown so far. THAT was not reflected in the thinking of the Pros.
nixluva wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:This is going to be Phil's 3rd revision of the roster and after the FLUSH in year one the team has gotten BETTER. So there's nothing wrong with raised expectations. Phil is trying to put a winning team together. He kept Melo. Drafted KP. Now he's added a couple of talented PG's, a real 3nD SG and a Center who can still rebound, defend and pass at a high level. It's easy to look at the negatives of the team but there are a LOT of positives with this roster and some considerable upside.The CP3 thing is going to be a consideration after the season but I wouldn't put a high chance on this happening next summer. Phil had to have it in the back of his mind if Rose completely implodes but aside from that I think they'll look to keep the team together if they make the playoffs and perform respectably.
that is why some of us eager fans are predicting low 40's while the pro's are picking late 30's. Some improvement, yes.
I really don't consider the Pro's prediction of about 35 wins to be something that will hold up this season. I think there is too much emphasis on Rose and not enough on how all the parts will come together under Hornacek. I actually think his style will be good for these players talents. I think JH will highlight the strengths of KP, Melo and Rose and he's going to go with the flow of the river rather than fight against it. JH is gonna know the way his players are most successful and create a set of plays that will go right along with those strengths. This is what he's stated over and over and what his history has shown so far. THAT was not reflected in the thinking of the Pros.
well your not a pro.
I think that my friends doctor should do his brain surgery with an axe yet they prefer lazer! I think their crazy but hey ... no one listens to me.
Then when something happens to him on the table I'll say: "GTFOH you fukking idiot hacks!! I told you to use an axe but nooooooooo ... you need to be smarter than everyone else and use a lazer!" 
fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...
this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years
so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?
define solid... and be realistic about my chances to sign CP3. Does CP3 *want* to play for the Knicks? Or am I risking losing Rose for nothing so I have 20% chance to sign CP3 while I openly court him? CP3 is the better player.. of late, but has his own injury concerns as well and will want to be paid $30mm until he's 36 years old. Does that sound smart? A lot of things just don't make sense about CP3.The ideal situation is Rose and Jennings both play their way into big deals, ideal as in they earned those big deals.
Way too risky to sign Rose to a big deal even if he has a good season. This shiuld be just a 1 year thing. next Year we have 3 draft picks and we move on in free agency
StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...
this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years
so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?
define solid... and be realistic about my chances to sign CP3. Does CP3 *want* to play for the Knicks? Or am I risking losing Rose for nothing so I have 20% chance to sign CP3 while I openly court him? CP3 is the better player.. of late, but has his own injury concerns as well and will want to be paid $30mm until he's 36 years old. Does that sound smart? A lot of things just don't make sense about CP3.The ideal situation is Rose and Jennings both play their way into big deals, ideal as in they earned those big deals.
Way too risky to sign Rose to a big deal even if he has a good season. This shiuld be just a 1 year thing. next Year we have 3 draft picks and we move on in free agency
So then if he's playing well, would you trade him by the trade deadline? Or lose him for nothing?
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...
this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years
so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?
define solid... and be realistic about my chances to sign CP3. Does CP3 *want* to play for the Knicks? Or am I risking losing Rose for nothing so I have 20% chance to sign CP3 while I openly court him? CP3 is the better player.. of late, but has his own injury concerns as well and will want to be paid $30mm until he's 36 years old. Does that sound smart? A lot of things just don't make sense about CP3.The ideal situation is Rose and Jennings both play their way into big deals, ideal as in they earned those big deals.
Way too risky to sign Rose to a big deal even if he has a good season. This shiuld be just a 1 year thing. next Year we have 3 draft picks and we move on in free agency
So then if he's playing well, would you trade him by the trade deadline? Or lose him for nothing?
can you define or quantify "playing well"?
Other than Lebron a few others, even most "stars" have gone thru some injury of concern.
CP3 has knee issues for years.
Durant had "Yao Ming" feet. If he was FA a year before, this would be a big concern.
Grif back problems.
Westbrook had the knee.
when players return for a while they are signed for big contracts. Rose played the last third of last season at a very high level. If he can play 70 games and finish strong, as well as go thru a battery of MRI's and evaluated for expert opinion then perhaps he is "back" and warrants a proper contract.
Amare was offered 3 years by PHX as they determined that's all he had. Likely, an extra year was in that offer. Knicks gave him 5 to make it an offer he could not refuse. Knicks took the risk and it was known. The contract was not insured because it could not be.
Bulls might be doing the same with Noah and its why they let him walk.
Bulls got a starting center and a good prospect in Grant in return. A decent haul for a guy with a big contract and a history of injury. Knicks signed RoPez so our exposure is really just Grant for Rose, and basically Noah.
The conversation about Rose really won't be valid until we get thru half the season and see how he does. Also, what will be his market value? How strong will his desire to be to stay in NY vs say taking a nice deal from Cuban in Dallas? How was the "Simpatico" of being a knick with Melo, KP and coach Horny vs a few more Millions? How important is winning in NY vs. Winning the bank roll?
Until now Rose has been pretty much on the "Deplorable" side. Shrouded in problems with Coach call over his SAT's, his injuries (not deplorable), his egocentric comments about his rehab, and future contract, his support group and his sexual preferences which has not become a public trail.
So who is Derrick Rose? We'll find out!
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:Wait and see...
this... hopefully Rose is the man and he works here. Jennings as well. That is the ideal scenario. Can CP3 make it through an NBA season? When Mike Conley is the highest paid PG you can assume CP3's asking price is nothing short of the max for 4 years
so lets say Rose has a solid season (by everybodys standards). Would you rather resign him to a max contract vx. taking a shot at CP3?
define solid... and be realistic about my chances to sign CP3. Does CP3 *want* to play for the Knicks? Or am I risking losing Rose for nothing so I have 20% chance to sign CP3 while I openly court him? CP3 is the better player.. of late, but has his own injury concerns as well and will want to be paid $30mm until he's 36 years old. Does that sound smart? A lot of things just don't make sense about CP3.The ideal situation is Rose and Jennings both play their way into big deals, ideal as in they earned those big deals.
Way too risky to sign Rose to a big deal even if he has a good season. This shiuld be just a 1 year thing. next Year we have 3 draft picks and we move on in free agency
So then if he's playing well, would you trade him by the trade deadline? Or lose him for nothing?
yea...I cant get my head around this thinking. He will be 28, a former MVP and after a good season people would let him walk? Thank god Starks is not my GM. I guess people forget the last 15 years and ALLLLLL those talented players dying to come to the Knicks. Jose will be a FA... so there is always that fallback option.
Rose is an impact player and very talented. I understand he's got holes in his game but he is a dynamic talent. The kind of talent you retain in the NBA. If there is some FA deal we make instead of Rose that improves the team fine. Simply not signing him after a good season and he plays well with this squad only because you are worried about him getting hurt again would be a terrible move.
Did he have knee issues last year?
Nalod wrote:Other than Lebron a few others, even most "stars" have gone thru some injury of concern.CP3 has knee issues for years.
Durant had "Yao Ming" feet. If he was FA a year before, this would be a big concern.
Grif back problems.
Westbrook had the knee.
when players return for a while they are signed for big contracts. Rose played the last third of last season at a very high level. If he can play 70 games and finish strong, as well as go thru a battery of MRI's and evaluated for expert opinion then perhaps he is "back" and warrants a proper contract.
Amare was offered 3 years by PHX as they determined that's all he had. Likely, an extra year was in that offer. Knicks gave him 5 to make it an offer he could not refuse. Knicks took the risk and it was known. The contract was not insured because it could not be.
Bulls might be doing the same with Noah and its why they let him walk.
Bulls got a starting center and a good prospect in Grant in return. A decent haul for a guy with a big contract and a history of injury. Knicks signed RoPez so our exposure is really just Grant for Rose, and basically Noah.
The conversation about Rose really won't be valid until we get thru half the season and see how he does. Also, what will be his market value? How strong will his desire to be to stay in NY vs say taking a nice deal from Cuban in Dallas? How was the "Simpatico" of being a knick with Melo, KP and coach Horny vs a few more Millions? How important is winning in NY vs. Winning the bank roll?
Until now Rose has been pretty much on the "Deplorable" side. Shrouded in problems with Coach call over his SAT's, his injuries (not deplorable), his egocentric comments about his rehab, and future contract, his support group and his sexual preferences which has not become a public trail.
So who is Derrick Rose? We'll find out!
exactly... now is not the time to decide and make sweeping judgments. There is a lot of talent on this roster. The most since Phil has been here. We will see if the risks he took pays off and how this crew gels.
fishmike wrote:
Did he have knee issues last year?
No, but he had the orbital issue. And the year before that, the meniscus, and the year before that, the other knee, and the year before that....
Didn't you read the carfax?
Date Injury
04/02/2016 Sore elbow
03/11/2016 Left adductor strain
02/24/2016 Right hamstring tendinitis
02/08/2016 Sore leg
01/12/2016 Sprained knee
12/30/2015 Right hamstring tendinitis
11/16/2015 Sprained left ankle
09/29/2015 Orbital fracture
02/24/2015 Torn right knee meniscus
01/10/2015 Left knee soreness
12/18/2014 Illness
11/25/2014 Left hamstring
11/13/2014 Strained left hamstring
11/07/2014 Sprained ankle
10/31/2014 Left Ankle Sprain
11/23/2013 Right knee surgery - out for season
11/12/2013 Sore right hamstring
