no! we have KP who should be our 5...not to mention noah who is in his way.
if we didnt have noah, then id like noel. but not for anymore draft picks. hes about to get paid this summer (>15 mill)
callmened wrote:no! we have KP who should be our 5...not to mention noah who is in his way.if we didnt have noah, then id like noel. but not for anymore draft picks. hes about to get paid this summer (>15 mill)
Nah we need this type of player. A pure defensive big who can also score rebound and pass. Noah wont be able to handle the load. The first thing I witnessed in that game is NO interior defense. This is hot to strike Philly got back Joel Embiid they have Okafor Sakic Holmes they are stacked--someone isnt playing. KP is our 4 we need a 5 to play 20-24 minutes --this would be a case of a draft pick well spent.
well thats why phil got noah (even yes i would rather have noel)
by the way, why would philly trade for our draft pick when they have their own and possibly a 2nd top 5 draft pick. theyre no longer trying to rebuild with tanking for draft picks. if anything they want to acquire vets around their youth
Try top 10 protected but he may even be had for less. He would make a nice back up on his salary and could learn from Noah.
BRIGGS wrote:for Nerlens Noel
are we in melocentric win-now mode or build around kp6 the once and future franchise player mode
Lets make trades after a preseason game impression.
BRIGGS wrote:for Nerlens Noel
what does this accomplish? We signed Noah for 4 years and first impressions of Willy are very good. If you want to add a prospect find me a young guard
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:for Nerlens Noel
what does this accomplish? We signed Noah for 4 years and first impressions of Willy are very good. If you want to add a prospect find me a young guard
Nothing wrong with stacking talent especially when your center has injury issues. The Knicks need defensive talent like Noel but I don't know if he would fit in this system. Maybe when we see the real offense(please don't let the Houston's game be the real o) I'd have a better idea of Noel working.
This is likely a perfect draft to get a quality guard but you never know how the college season will shake out and if these freshman guards are as good as advertised.
Yeah, let's trade away 1st rounders! That's what Phil's been doing since he got here, right?
Noel and KP would be a dynamic monster front court for years.
Sign me up.
Nerlens Noel is great and is being wildly misused.
Noel / KP / Noah would be one of the best big men rotations in the league.
dk7th wrote:BRIGGS wrote:for Nerlens Noel
are we in melocentric win-now mode or build around kp6 the once and future franchise player mode
Nerlens Noel is 22. KP is 21.
This is a win now mode AND a build for the future move.
I like it.
Getting Nerlens Noel now would be like trading for a young Camby. It'd be a great, visionary move.
Let's throw in KOQ, too.
KOQ
top 3-restricted 2018 pick
for Nerlens Noel
jrodmc wrote:Yeah, let's trade away 1st rounders! That's what Phil's been doing since he got here, right?
There's a way to trade picks. The way Dolan does it--giving them away for guys like Bargnanai --yeah thats ass backwards--I mean as stupid as it gets. But trading for a a player who is a building block type that can be used now at the old age of 21 is a good value of usage. Philadelphia cant keep all of those guys--wont happen. And NO WAY NO WAY NO HOW will J Noah play more than 65 games 24-26 minutes IF we are lucky. And then we have to hope it wasnt Noah of last year who wasnt that good. By the time Noel is 23--how good could he be--the odds of some kind of pick better than he in 2 years HMMM 100-1 no.
crzymdups wrote:Getting Nerlens Noel now would be like trading for a young Camby. It'd be a great, visionary move.
Noel brings some tantalizing possibilities. There are a lot of things that jump out at me as reasons this doesn't make sense.
Timing - We just signed a guy to center for 4 years and huge money.
Willy - I just looked up his measurements. In 2013 he measured 6'11 with a 7'2 wingspan so he certainly has the size to play the 5, is a lane clogging load and looks like a bigtime passer. Not Noel's defensive skill set but has other things he brings.
Contract - Noels expires at year end. What do you pay a guy when you have Noah, KP (who may end up at center anyway) and Willy?
I wont kill Noels for his bad offensive game as that has not been a great learning environment. That may or may not improve.
I would rather pair KP with a young wing who defends... mostly based on the current roster makeup. I see your point and the young Camby compare might be a little too warm and fuzzy but it may be spot on. Hard to make it work right now IMO
BRIGGS wrote:jrodmc wrote:Yeah, let's trade away 1st rounders! That's what Phil's been doing since he got here, right?
There's a way to trade picks. The way Dolan does it--giving them away for guys like Bargnanai --yeah thats ass backwards--I mean as stupid as it gets. But trading for a a player who is a building block type that can be used now at the old age of 21 is a good value of usage. Philadelphia cant keep all of those guys--wont happen. And NO WAY NO WAY NO HOW will J Noah play more than 65 games 24-26 minutes IF we are lucky. And then we have to hope it wasnt Noah of last year who wasnt that good. By the time Noel is 23--how good could he be--the odds of some kind of pick better than he in 2 years HMMM 100-1 no.
to make this work you almost hope Noah isn't healthy. What if he is? Do you give Noels max money? He will get a huge contract offer as teams can spend so you have to extend him as a max player (or pretty close) after next year. That then means you are committed to bringing Rose back as well, as you will no longer have the cap space if he walks to sign a high caliber player (guard).
And again... this means you bury Willy and don't get to see what he can do or develop. He may not have Noels upside but burying this kid on the bench is paying for Noels twice (not to mention he's KP best buddy)
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:Getting Nerlens Noel now would be like trading for a young Camby. It'd be a great, visionary move.
Noel brings some tantalizing possibilities. There are a lot of things that jump out at me as reasons this doesn't make sense.
Timing - We just signed a guy to center for 4 years and huge money.
Willy - I just looked up his measurements. In 2013 he measured 6'11 with a 7'2 wingspan so he certainly has the size to play the 5, is a lane clogging load and looks like a bigtime passer. Not Noel's defensive skill set but has other things he brings.
Contract - Noels expires at year end. What do you pay a guy when you have Noah, KP (who may end up at center anyway) and Willy?
I wont kill Noels for his bad offensive game as that has not been a great learning environment. That may or may not improve. I would rather pair KP with a young wing who defends... mostly based on the current roster makeup. I see your point and the young Camby compare might be a little too warm and fuzzy but it may be spot on. Hard to make it work right now IMO
Those are valid points. Knicks really need to score on a wing or a guard in this year's draft. I'm leery of giving away picks, but Noel is 22. Is he restricted this year? Usually you can keep restricted guys off the market. The front court would be set for years and it'd be about getting some guards either through the draft or free agency. Don't forget we're locked into CLee at a cheap price for several years. And Melo can opt out in 2018, leaving us with huge cap room at that point. In 2018, I think we'll be ready to fully build around KP. Having a 24yr old Noel and a 23yr old KP at that point, plus whatever the 2017 draft pick is would be a nice young core. But I'd also be fine having KP, 2017 pick and 2018 pick to build around at that point, too. Maybe Jennings sticks for a while, too. We shall see. But going after Noel wouldn't be a bad place to start. But I can see your point. I just don't wanna rely on Noah to play big minutes and I don't fully trust Willy to play enough D to be a starter.
No more trading 1st round picks.
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:Getting Nerlens Noel now would be like trading for a young Camby. It'd be a great, visionary move.
Noel brings some tantalizing possibilities. There are a lot of things that jump out at me as reasons this doesn't make sense.
Timing - We just signed a guy to center for 4 years and huge money.
Willy - I just looked up his measurements. In 2013 he measured 6'11 with a 7'2 wingspan so he certainly has the size to play the 5, is a lane clogging load and looks like a bigtime passer. Not Noel's defensive skill set but has other things he brings.
Contract - Noels expires at year end. What do you pay a guy when you have Noah, KP (who may end up at center anyway) and Willy?
I wont kill Noels for his bad offensive game as that has not been a great learning environment. That may or may not improve. I would rather pair KP with a young wing who defends... mostly based on the current roster makeup. I see your point and the young Camby compare might be a little too warm and fuzzy but it may be spot on. Hard to make it work right now IMO
Those are valid points. Knicks really need to score on a wing or a guard in this year's draft. I'm leery of giving away picks, but Noel is 22. Is he restricted this year? Usually you can keep restricted guys off the market. The front court would be set for years and it'd be about getting some guards either through the draft or free agency. Don't forget we're locked into CLee at a cheap price for several years. And Melo can opt out in 2018, leaving us with huge cap room at that point. In 2018, I think we'll be ready to fully build around KP. Having a 24yr old Noel and a 23yr old KP at that point, plus whatever the 2017 draft pick is would be a nice young core. But I'd also be fine having KP, 2017 pick and 2018 pick to build around at that point, too. Maybe Jennings sticks for a while, too. We shall see. But going after Noel wouldn't be a bad place to start. But I can see your point. I just don't wanna rely on Noah to play big minutes and I don't fully trust Willy to play enough D to be a starter.
fair enough, but those are the guys and you need to let it play out. Willy appears to be a good ball player and has a very blue collar game on offense. Most young big struggle defensively in the league so he gets to figure it out backing up Noah. All this also assume you want to avoid KP at center entirely. Its early but I see Melo getting time at PF and that is going to push KP to center at times. I just think Melo is a step slow for a SF on a team that wants to run and push. As a 4 he's a much better fit. Point is we aren't thin at center. In fact its more a glut. I see the rotation like this (give or take):
1) Noah 25 mins
2) Willy 15 mins - I think he beats KOQ for the backup center role
3) KP 8 mins - some stretches where Melo is at the 4, or Lance, or NDour, etc etc..
4) KOQ injury/foul trouble... I don't see him making the rotation
Interesting idea.. I just don't see a way to implement it that makes sense.
